shot the dot com ah, it started with a job, allegedly worn in an inappropriate fashion. when in 6 weeks after a masa menia was detained by the so called morality police, the protests over her death have turned into a movement, striving to become a revolution. thousands have since been arrested, hundreds killed, but the regimes violent crackdown has done little to quash the uprising. iran is no stranger to protest, but with more people joining every day in international pressure growing, it looks like it will become increasingly difficult for the clerics to maintain their grip on power. i'm nickel, really, him, berlin, and this is the day ah,

together we condemn the iranian government's brutal crack down on peaceful protesters. and the current crisis in iran calls for us to urgent be support the establishment of an international independent investigative mechanism on the human rights abuses and are on the only thing that was thought by iran is annoying the if they continue to develop their nuclear program. the free world we'll use full oh. also on the show, a controversial day trip. german chancellor, olaf shows heads to beijing. he'll be the 1st western leader to meet teaching ping since he lay the groundwork to rule china for life. that's going said c, like as up as he has said repeatedly that he's against the coupling of from china from she knows the ups of and no doubt he's also made it clear that germany pursues multilateralism rather than east west confrontation. and his team conflicts was in

austin. whiskey. oh, good. have you with us? another day of protests in iran, another day. the regimes forces cracked down on the masses. demanding fundamental human rights is unclear exactly how many take to the streets each day or where they do it. but even with the smallest acts of civil disobedience, they risk their freedom, their life. the desire for change has grown bigger than the fear, and the movement has become the greatest challenge to the authoritarian theocracy since the islamic revolution and 1979. the people versus the state. so far around in authorities are holding firm. that's the elite revolutionary guards who control most of the economy and security, and the clerics lead by supreme leader, ayatollah hyman ne,

who make the rules. officials say the unrest is the work of foreign agents, especially the us and israel hero. why did the enemies, why did america on the zionist regime, conspire against our nation under revolution and create these riots? as the supreme leader said, our country is advancing on the enemy's. don't want our country to make progress that about moe, me. when for their part, protesters aren't just angry about one policy, they're rejecting the whole regime a regime that has not tried to accommodate them. instead, the head of the revolutionary guards has tried to play down the level of public discontent. all the jobs we are telling our youth, the minority who have been deceived to stop wicked acts to day is the end of the riots. don't go to the streets anymore. oh

oh, not unlike in protests of the past, this time around, students have been joined by working class crowds, a broad based loose alliance that threatens the regime space of support. burning had jobs and attacking police stations, rejecting the authority of the security services. and the religious rules of the clerics or the challenge for iran's rulers is to manage the protests without setting off more unrest. that's a difficult balance. and it's one that it's far from clear, the government is capable of well as the extent that question to come round, martin, he's a lecturer on international relations at the university of ethics and the you came from wanting welcome to the day. so ken aaron's ruler is manage the protest without fueling them. hi, i'm actually sussex just to correct that. i mean, the rain, the regime is facing

a really difficult task because the nature of the process is different and the capacities seem to have been exhausted. the, the process of different because a, it's less than instigated by women, which is difficult for the regime to sell to its base is social base, which is increasingly narrowing that these are, you know, foreign plots and these are connected to the outside world. the processes are unarmed and the process are also extremely dispersed geographically in many places, a few more painlessly. the protesters have kind of designed kind of come up with their own innovative modes up process. usually small scale in different neighborhoods at the same time, which means that the good courses have to be kind of strained and dispersed in different places at the same time. and most importantly, the progress have gone on for 7 weeks. and this means that the officers on the ground are exhausted. the human resources of the security process seems to have

reached its limits. so at this rate, if it continues, it's not entirely clear that what that means is, is able to do. and there is, there are signs of confusion within the state. they tried to kind of scare people off the streets by and on the she excessive violence in the periphery of iran and ethnic minority regions such as baluchistan, where in one single day the city of done up to 90 people who are massacre. but even this hasn't detailed the process protested, and therefore, it doesn't seem that the resume has many new ideas to bring to the, to the process. and they seem to be continuing as they today and vulnerable is that even? sorry to jump in there, but how vulnerable is the regime after the 7 weeks? i think the wall ability seems to kind of increase by the day and i mean we saw

today encourage and yet there are people actually defended themselves against the violence of the security forces. and according to the state media, one bus, each kind of militia related to our gc was killed and they will review all of our security forces cause being alive and so on. so people are increasingly actually defending them, nothing really resisting. and this also adds to the pressure on the security forces, so they will not ability seems to go because it's kind of go up, increased by day. do you think will seen the violence spiral out of control? well, i mean at this rate, if there was room continues to kind of violence, it has on the shed up to now. and if it increases that. and if people continue to defending themselves with kind of make shift. 2 weapons or simply defending themselves with whatever they have. there is a possibility that there will be more casualties. but i think the regime is also

aware that excessive violence in the major urban centers such as iran or other big cities can actually make things worse and kind of increase the scale of the problem they are facing so much depends on what sort of measure the regime is taking in the coming days and weeks, but one thing is clear that the public probably around is not used to compromise with internal physician. and that is the kind of, i can assume. such western governments are unified and their condemnation of iran in response to the protests. but what leverage to outside actors have on what iran does to which people and does iran care? well, i think actually the symbolism, ovarian states, relation and international body institution is quite important. which is why we are simply so that the foreign ministry, or 2 countries warning them against taking measures against its kind

of diplomatic senses. or you know, the idea that you might put, she goes on, it's this stuff kind of sanction entities has quite reverberated within iran, you know, expelling iran from you and body is such as the on overseeing the human rights of women's rights. these are actually measures which are important in the sense that it gets support. and so that if you are doing and people and they would feel that they are not alone in the struggle for basic human rights and the kind of change of regime teen to a more democratic one. so yeah, there are certain level of leverage which outside world has against the public. not too long ago, the talks on renewing the iranian nuclear deal looked like they were making some progress is all that on hold. now because of the protest, i think the process actually extremely slow. now for multiple reasons. the midterm

elections, the united states, is very close and defined as indicates that actual republicans might take control of the house. and that's would make actually a deal by dividing instruction with iran, especially on the consensus we have now a given the internal print test, which increasingly by the way, processes themselves, quality resolution. but it's slow them. it's no longer a process of allusion. so you should be very closely, politically for by them to, to come and compromise with hearing and regime. on the other hand. 5 i don't see a deal actually will change much inside your on, in terms of, you know, we can make benefits of it, which would actually likely to re inflame the progress rather than stop it. another time we have a change of government in israel, which might actually affect the whole process even more. come around martin of the university of sussex, not ethics, excuse me for that. but no problem. i see the

putting all your eggs into one basket. never a good idea. germany and other western states learned that the hard way when russia's invasion of ukraine left them scrambling for alternative energy sources. now when it comes to trade, germany is heavily dependent on china. another autocratic state with little regard for human rights or the rule of law. so it's no wonder that german chancellor will shots his 1st visit to china would be overshadowed by fundamental questions about the future of relations with beijing. from the time being, his approach looks fairly familiar. change through trade. for years that was germany's china policy. wilma chancellor, anglo merkel champion the idea throughout her 16 years and power, suggesting that making money in fostering change go hand in hand. china is now germany's biggest trades partner and concerns are growing that this has made

germany dangerously dependent. but if you look at a couple of the kind of key clusters of dependency m one now particularly down to parts of the car and the auto sector and the chemical sector. and i think that's where you have the real dependencies. china under all powerful president, she jane ping has undergone profound change. the economy has reached new heights, but instead of opening up politically, c has doubled down on authoritarianism. the idea of change through trade looks dead yet the new government has been wrestling with what to do about that. the coalition deal, the government signed last year, looked tough, with passages on taiwan and human rights. a wall mark of the green party, which holds important ministries in the government. sites among the time when people say trade no matter what, no matter what the social and humanitarian standards are. this is the point of all

relations. this is something we shouldn't allow ourselves any longer. this means that we will also establish a more robust trade policy views of his china for europe, australia. but the man at the top doesn't seem so sure. chancellor of channels has pushed through a controversial deal, allowing a chinese state enterprise to buy a stake in durham, his most important port hamburg the decision was met without parole. from his own coalition partners. no snottily from the greens, all of cells as decision now to travel to china, where the business delegation is only adding to the divisions. so where does that leave germany's china's strategy? for many will not just look, have to look at how to diversify economic relations, but actually how to reduce strategic dependencies on china, particularly in critical areas such as raw materials and show for example, areas such as

a wind turbine. so solar modules and for electric batteries, for electric vehicles, crucial decisions lie ahead, but it's not clear if the german government can make up its mind. a faced with increasing backlash over his travel plans, olaf schoultz published an op ed on the news website politico and in the german newspaper fotz explaining his agenda in china. and it shows criticize the increasingly hard line approach taken by the communist leaders. but he sat in germany's history of division means a doesn't want to see the formation of new blocks globally. he continued what this means with regard to china is that this country with as 1400000000 inhabitants and its economic power will of course, play a key role on the world stage in the future just as it has done for long periods throughout history. but this he rode, justifies neither the calls by some to isolate china, nor a quest for hedge

a monic chinese dominance, or even a sino centric world order. let's dissect what's going on with matthew car niche. nick, he's the chief europe correspondent for political welcome to the day. so says calls to isolate china are not justified. how do these kinds of commons go down in washington? well, 1st of all, thanks for having me. i think out washington the united states is a little bit frustrated with the german chancellor when it comes to china because they've been hoping already before they came into office before the by the ministration came into office. that china would be something that they could agree with the german government on and that they could all get behind a common policy. and in fact, even before job buying was inaugurated just a few weeks before jo vine was inaugurated annual america who was then the german chancellor of course, signed an investment deal with china together with,

with the you and, and really pushed for this investment. you even though she knew that by administration was, was opposed to it. so this is been a thorn in the side of the united states for the last last couple of years in fact . but it's not only the u. s. sholtes is potentially frustrating. here am on with my con, report in the offering child can travel together to show strength and european unity. why did he to decline? well, i think, you know, there are a couple of reasons that happened some tensions in the franco german relationship of late due to other issues. and it does seem that mccaul and shows are not the best of friends, which again is a shift from what we saw between michael and miracle. so there are those bilateral tensions at the moment, but i think it's also a bit of a reality check in shows his eyes for,

for the french and for the rest of europe. which is to say that germany is the largest country, the largest economy in europe. it's relationship with china is absolutely essential to the health of the german economy. so, you know, it's quite happy to do this on its own. it doesn't need to have, you know, the, did the rest of the, you or even even france had a long when it's, when speaking about it, it's economy there. but it does feel like germany is making clearly shows is that when he speaks to, to china. when he speaks the pain, he feels that this is the big boys table and for us is not invited. self remarks. the ones that were published on your website can roughly be translated into his coalitions and the definition of china as a partner competitor and systemic rival. which of these do you think ways, heavier these days? well i think that that statement in fact, which as you said is,

is language coined by, by the you, it is, is really a bit of a cop out because what it means is that kind of can be whatever you want them. right. and if your partner, your arrival is sort of like saying, well you're, you're my friend and you're my enemy. so i don't think there's really much substance to, to that statement, except that it signals that germany is going to continue to do business with china as before, is going to go its own course. it's not going to be you know, forced by the united states to cut ties or to decouple as specials, made clear in the united states in cutting ties either. but, you know, there is a lot of symbolism in this trip in particular, because she's being, was just declared effort for life if you will. and will show is going to be the 1st sort of major guess to come in and see me for, i guess, to,

to come visit him after that. so, you know, this is all very, very intentional that i seek, especially these, these symbolic steps that schultz is taking are quite important for the chinese as well. but shelf is very much aware of that, isn't he? and as you said, a lot of the criticism was a, not at the fact that he's going to china in and of itself. but the timing of it. why did he choose to go now? well i think again he, he knew that he had a chance to, you know, kind of show she's in being how important the relationship is for germany. how important it is for, for, for all of shows. and you know, he took it, which is to say, you know, yes we, there are, there are tensions where we're not happy with everything that you're doing. but we still regard this as, as extremely important partnership. you only need to look at the trace statistics between germany and, and, and china to, to understand,

understand why china in terms of exports is the 2nd most important market after united states, about a 100000000000 euros in exports there last year. and, and this, this is really essential to the, to the german, according to the health of the german economy at a time when europe is moving into a recession, you know, about all kinds of pressures on the german and european economies. of course because of inflation and the energy situation. so i think, you know, shots understand that you can't really afford to, you know, start another crisis with, with, with, with, with, with china. and i think, you know, this was also distributive is a recognition of that about that german foreign minister has worn repeatedly to not repeat with china the mistake made and dealing with basha. that what's happening right now? well, i mean, this is also kind of a misunderstanding because you know,

it's not, it's not really a matter of repeating the mistake. they made this mistake simultaneously because this was driven foreign policy was to get along with, with these folks, no matter. you know what they were doing at home and to build these relationships. i mean, this relationship with china has evolved over decades. i mean, this is important to understand that during this didn't get into china with the last 15 years. they were the 1st major western country to start investing their 19 eighties with big german companies like siemens and v. w. started investing very early, even before the american company started going in there. so these are very, very deep relationships. and you're not just going to be able to with withdraw overnight, much less, you know, at all to the degree. i think variable can other people with like it. in fact, mister bare book has suggested, well, you know, we should,

we should put ethical concerns ahead of economic concerns, which i think is something that schultz is disabled. he's not willing to do because there are so many jobs. german jobs attached to this to this trade. and even though you know, it's also true, some people pointed out of the last few days that the, the, the trade with china economic relationship isn't growing anymore. but it's still quite, quite significant. and i think, you know, shows his actions here are really a recognition of just how important china remains, isn't there, isn't there a great danger in the fact that germany depends so much more on china than vice versa? and then that seems to be something that that child isn't really prepared to challenge at this point. well, i think he's not prepared to challenge it because he knows that he can't charge it . i think that, you know, they really are trapped. and this is also

a difference with, with the situation with russia, germany, germany's dependency on russia was really tied to the, to the energy sector. but, you know, there are other places they can get natural gas, which they're doing, it's more expensive, it's more complicated. but, you know, they'll, they'll manage to compensate for that. you cannot compensate for a trade relationship like the one that germany has with china is, is just, this is too big. a dependency is so deep that it would cripple the german economy if there were to really be a serious crisis there. so, you know, it's, it's as foreign minister, you know, i think, you know, beer book, it has other, other concerns maybe than shoals does. but i think that he particularly is former finance minister and understands just the degree of dependency here. and this is why you know, he is really overruling not just the greens people in his own

party, everyone in his coalition and the united states and, and plowing his own path here. yet the coalition is working on a, on a joint approach to, to china. this new china policy that they promised to set out in the coalition agreement. it's not yet on the table, which might be one of the reasons that there is this disagreement among the 3 parties in government. what would a new china strategy, an effective china strategy have to look like in your opinion? well, i think the fact that they don't have one yet, you know, given how central this question is to germany, economic futures is very tally. and, you know, i think that there is resistance, you know, especially amongst the greens, to deepening, deepening the relationship whereas, you know, i think that i think both the f t p and the social democrats, you know,

want to maintain the status quo or something very much like the status quo and you know, i personally think that's the way it's going to go. just because as i mentioned, the, the, the, the economic realities are so compelling and, and germany is not going to be able to find an alternative to, to, to china. and any time, any time soon, and that's also a difference i would say, between the relationship that we see between united states in china and, and journalists with china. you know, the united states also has very deep ties there. and it's still going to be difficult for it to, to withdraw from, from china, the way some people are suggesting decoupling, as, as they're saying, but later there with thank you so much for all those and thank you for your time. thank you. that's our time. thank you so much for watching

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