this is the 77 percent the platform with, you know, with this channel we are not afraid to capture delicate topic because population is growing. and young people clearly have the solution. the future belongs to the 77 percent every weekend on d. w. sham referendums in the occupied regions of ukraine and more russian troops are drafted into battle. but the protests are increasing across the country. i guess this week had his own unique protest, very spun very off. foreign service veteran resigned in shame of the war and ukraine. the only russian government official to do so in public what are the

chances of coaching, surviving the conflict? he started, he put himself in this situation where there's no with them. i think these elect my l health threats. it's the only instrument to try to get himself out as the war goes on, how real is the nuclear threat and why the russian officials believe the west wouldn't retaliate against the nuclear strike from moscow. ah, varies bundari off welcome to conflict zone hello team. before we talk about your personal story, i'd like to deal with some of the latest events going on in the russia ukraine war . let's start with the so called referendums, taking place in 4 ukrainian regions occupied by russian troops. asking people if they want to join russia itself, since no one is going to believe the result. why bother with this?

i think it's like the mystic consent to convince people within the rush it is all right. and those people in these new creat republics are really wishing to join my russian. so it's given that the government will do. ready no reason to, to continue the world in order to get the people. ready regions so it's do more domestic relations and you think the domestic population is that gullible, that they're going to believe it. they know by now that russia doesn't hold elections unless it fixes them in advance of it. well, you know, the rest of the asian, which is the main problem is, has been so far, very different. what's going on. oh, science so to speak. so it's only these days. some of them are starting to

understand that the war is much closer than it was then they thought it was so yeah, i think. ready government this deal believing that they can't sell any anything to bid things 3 people. even now we've seen in the last few days after chaos over the partial mobilization which put in ordered. the kremlin says it's drafting $300000.00 troops to ukraine. other reports say around a 1000000, how much difference do you think these extra troops will make because the failure so far haven't been caused by troops shortages have they, they've been caused by low morale, poor logistics weapons that haven't worked poor command structures. that's been the problem, hasn't it? yeah, i guess so. i believe that these new numbers do a new the come all at once to the front line. they will not change the course,

or they will, can only make it more slow or russia to, to, to the war. because the army being being so far, very confident in terms of threat on so planning in terms of the race and so so, so, so for now the main superiority by nation say, so oh, the russian army in comparison to the was. ready the numbers, the numbers, so i think they can only fight with numbers. what one of your most powerful criticisms of the russian government that you served is that it's part of a system that deceives itself. is that the military's problem as well. it's been deceiving itself about its capabilities, about its weapons, the state of its preparedness, this kind of thing. yeah, sure, sure. this is

a absolutely combo all branches of rough environment. it is all on these lives on cells. so cells competing reports and so on. so we're going to see it by the database. the 1st place, it's just that he missed his own strength. and the ability to bring in our direction of the west was a great mystical ation based on misinformation he received from me to support a 1000000000 service from means of defense and so on. but do russian officials even know where the truth really live any more? well, it's hard to say that because i think on the very low level people who work really in the field so to speak to. ready you know the truth, but while they're being reported to it, it's in many ways. so it's no surprise that the decision makers on the

chain, they sell the information which is not reflecting reality for over 20 years that you worked in the foreign ministry. you said the level of lies and unprofessionalism was increasing all the time. is that what was demanded by the bosses? just tell the gram then what they want to hear. that's it. yeah. yeah, because if you reported to my school. ready the situation is not always favorable to us. they might think that you don't work well enough and it will make your career prospects less right then you would expect. so everybody wants to please moscow to show that they were being very hard. and then you've got some theory promotions and all, so that's, that's your belief. and you said in may that you had recently seen misleading

information cable to moscow because that's what they wanted to hear. what was that information? mostly it was the, the russia, russian interest, the russian positions regarding the world is very widely shared by many countries. but the russia isolated that the western. ready balls and everybody on this down the death balls for instance, it also goes to the chemical scandals about these 3 boys on the y and boys and. ready for instance, and some other things. so it is, you know, these reports being run. you don't have to report the truth, but you have to and you guys and so nobody understands blevins. it's a kind of see, but this is a very bad art. you're,

you're very scathing about the 5 minutes. the said a lot of rough. did you expect better from him? you say he sent to mind the degradation of the system? well, well, he came in and done a lot of illusion. very helpful to what we see now another symbol of the addition of this system which is now denying the reality. so i don't expect anything from anything from the galler. i'm here to present us and i think that it will. ready all see the collapse of this is when it collapse. yeah. but i base based on what all the lives that they've told they suddenly realize that nothing is true, that everything's going wrong. and it's too late to do anything about it is that,

is that the scenario that you foresee? i will do that. that is all depends on the war and, but i don't see russia can achieve the real story of this. it can be used on an even worse than congress dot sublime and you bring it all the way around this depletion. so i'll just be the. ready way, in all other scenarios, you will have to go to bed down and down. it will be very hard below because it'll be in the run up to the invasion when russian diplomats all over the world were ridiculing the idea of war. did you know the putin was going to invade the us knew about it last autumn and said, so did, did you know, did people in your embassy? no, this was going to happen. no. well, it was the information. all the decision on was not the word close to almost

anyone. so it was only personal guessing whether you will decide to wait or not. i personally didn't believe it because i would foresee all these consequences that this invasion will do. ready house, i was pretty sure that law school also has this knowledge of this understanding, but evidently they didn't. evidently, they basically that they were, as i said, how moscow lied to its own embassies as well as to everyone else. oh, well yeah. i wouldn't say. ready like they just don't tell anything that they don't want. ready to the talent, they the embassy just thing that you said what disturbed you most in the russian embassy was the casual way. some of your fellow diplomats talked about nuclear strikes against the west, even though they worked in control. did they have no idea how these nuclear strikes

that they were talking about might lead to world war 3, or the consequences of that? you know, these dangerous being is that there was a whole. ready thing about this but to do it to. ready to, to make you strikes against the west. again, the 1st place people are sure that there will be no jewish that the west will just swallows. and just at the knees. and let's say let's again, ok, we're here. ok, let's, let's make a read that what, what makes them believe that i think it's a very old and con, break. it is regarding the western it's irrational that the wisdom. ready people very weak and where it pampers because they're very used to comparable, lacks, you know, and that they're not ready to sacrifice like well,

the war because every war makes it makes, it makes people live uneasy. and we were known to all the world that we can stop up or as long as it takes. well, it's not the prejudice worse, but it and the people who me big items, they also share this with you. at one point you asked your former colleagues if they'd be happy for their children to live in radioactive ruins, and they simply reply, this is about values traditional russian values as opposed to those of the decadent west. so in their minds it's ok to blow up the west if the west doesn't share these wonderful russian values because it's all these talk about imagined because no one can really imagine what will be what will. ready be and of course they just tried to,

to make themselves confident about that. but i believe that some decisions can be made on these are ross and fortunes. in the last few days, we've heard more threats from mister, put in more unrest across russia itself. some common treason suggested that amid all this chaos putins power is beginning to drain away, do you by that scenario. i think that this is asia ranch in the in the k is reading, but the last reserves you mailed it to me to me to use. so we have a rest in the, in the, in the regions,

different 3 years. so i could still unrest and to remodel will be rising the coming days. how long can you make as many mistakes and joke up as many failures as he has and remain in power these days in russia? it's hard to say it's hard to say, i think the fatal regime is very strongly dependent on the bill. already describe the potential successful re did make the blow station of the russian army, the russians are even with the in the supporters. so he will continue and i will, will continue getting or defeats by army that will drill. you might be i guess my question is more about the,

the hotline political insecurity elite in moscow. they're not exactly known for having a forgiving nature. how much of this, how much more of this will they put up with? do you think, i mean, we've got a long list of failures, we have the failure to take care of the failure to arrest the landscape. the failure to hold on to the territory that they've captured high casualties. hardware that doesn't work, poor morale has to put in has to be running out of political capital at home. doesn't do well. well, because we cannot judge because we don't have any information. it's very close. ringback but there's no doubt that the. ready rationally leads us, please now, and a lot of them want to to change the john paul. but i think the also now the most powerful figures around which all armed forces, special services, they're still sticking to him for some reasons. maybe they do believe that can

resolve a situation like he was generally very loyal to human, to the very 1st. so all they can cannot nothing with the nation to think about the future without themselves without boss. so it's very difficult to break it, but it's, it's natural that there will be most please, and we will, i think we will see it by nea. if you strip away over the lies the accusations, the propaganda. do you and your mind have a clear idea why putin started this war? yeah, she started this. ready war because he wants to day once you're struggling for lifetime and since he cannot sell in his book relation any success. ready economy is shrinking if it's going to start with team the end of

the daily life. most people in russia has be deadly. he can only spell some military successes. that's why see. ready wanted to read because it, it is all right, life all raise brushing rules defense ration interest. and so that would work for some years like to work with brain and he just wanted to repeat this premium excise. so this idea that he felt threatened by nato, and he thought nato countries were trying to, in circle russia. although how you in circle a country that has 11 times owns and is 10 percent or 11 percent of the world's land mass. it's difficult to imagine, but all that's nonsense, all that was nonsense, was it that may be a 2nd thing. it was thinking about,

but i think the interest over securing the person of power, the most important looking also this is it's not about me. it's about possible western interfering listening to domestic affairs in order to instigate progress within a few places. they feel the. ringback all this within the boundary cannot just be created by the people that they said despite it's only it's only rated by the west. ready it's another thing, but the 1st reason is just you do to semantic to group power. does he want to fight with nato? i hope not, but you know, he put him still in the gauge and where there's no. i think these black reps, the only instrument was to try to get himself out considering how you've denounced the war and the lies of the russian government. how worried to

you about your own safety? i. i don't really think about this very much. i believe that now when i leave it in such a dangerous time, that we all must think about the safety of more than our individual. so that's, that's my, that's my answer. but i don't think much about a whole space of key figures, business men, people in society who may or may not have opposed the war have landed up dead recently. many seem to have had an unexpected accidents or jumped out of upstairs windows. not a coincidence. is it opperation underway? isn't there in russia? yeah, it's very suspicious going into the answer. yes. i have no information about that. i think both these cases should be together. but last question is,

when we come back to the issue of nuclear weapons, because several western officials, among them america's national security advisor, say they've spelled out to the kremlin the exact catastrophic consequences of going nuclear. do you think in any way that will deter putin your control business will not well deter us even worse when both sides a whole lot to this by the session, both parties are reasonable and they don't want to die. and they just want to to keep your diversity at the distance in this case. well, it's simulating, but that's what is it, he is not quite reasonable. well, maybe he is really reasonable. we don't know. so we've done that. he may come

off to talk to starts in your strikes we don't know. so in this case if we deal. ready with a man or that if it's okay to start, what then determines may not work. if russia really intends to use a nuclear weapon, what would be the signs to look out for? do you get any of these signs now? do you see any of them signs that moscow is reading its nuclear arsenal for use? well, i'm not. they need to know that it's difficult to show out of this multiple is really . ready raising its troops or drivers. so i believe that the intelligence gathered by the western class, which is much more reliable. and they went out and they said no such science. but i got to read the whole blessed tempered by the rush

and some troops and all radiation radiation deals. so something at least they will be in read is on your list. i don't know. maybe it's just a proper dentist. so i don't know the rhetorical russian leadership and a nuclear live my own way in february 24. so if we judge by the rhetoric, you can say that they would read into new tribes. this is the beginning of the war, but it's not, sol. so whether they will be ready to start the new offering that's, that's a big question. as it appears that some of the fail safe mechanisms designed to prevent nuclear war have in pop, been eroded. i'm talking about direct communications between senior russian and american military leaders. these appeared to have stopped how dangerous is that

it is very dangerous because those generally, those communication channels been a very useful in the caribbean process. and they did get it all out to the military commanders to. ready to talk directly with each others that degrees in. ready wraps and war, but the current situation when both sides do not trust the child, so to speak, the channels me, i'm just working so under those circumstances, how easy would it be for one side to miss read the signals of the other and launch a war on a false understanding of the facts is very probable, very probable. rational, i'm sure is very, very nervous about any possible science. i don't know,

attacks or any other interference from the western office into the brain war. so they can, i don't know what, what, what the read last, what was they are some read life. so they can be very well is we owe them the russian leadership has been very inadequate. cindy, so it's very hard to say how. ready they perceive the information they get from the front line from the native classes so they can decide something, something very imaginable without real, real reasons for that. so the reasonable liquidation, misinterpretation misunderstand right? so what you're saying is that this could all get out of hand very quickly. i would say that if john get out of and but also the rest scenarios that is,

well i think it up to the native countries do not. so i don't know one for them to start or maybe maintain that will do is it rationally it around maybe a 2nd or 3rd, ashland rush hour to to present them. that is the only on the boat at the end of the normalization, both relation to gallons, which must be gone with his blows both boxes. and then the situation may be like reversed that i think that may may go to those people. ready to, to rally with the and the direct vital to try and keep as many communications open as possible communication channel. yes, sure. maybe not. maybe she shouldn't be isolated from he's the supporters that the work lead the russian i lead. it's very important. but he spun that you're

off. thank you very much for being on conflict. so it's good to see. thank into it . ah ah, ah, with

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