ah, ah the war in ukraine may have strengthened western alliances in europe, but not in all cases. the big outlier is the hungarian leader, victor, or ban won't supply weapons to care and won't let them transit is country. my guess from budapest is the prime minister's state secretary opened co batch. do you want to lensky to win the war?

we want peace. you don't want him to wear it every day and power. it's a cheap. it moscow's price. what, whatever happens, whatever happens in ukraine is no good, not only for hungary, but for europe. so why does hungary government think putin has made russia great again? why is or been so scared of a mixed race, hungary, and what about the rule of law issues with process is all about welcome to complex own. thank you for having me. let's start if we may with the war in ukraine as far back as march. your prime minister declared. the answer to the question of which side hungry is on is that hungry is on hungary is side. but that's what the full story is. if you've made a lot of statements and done a lot of things that will have please your friends in moscow or you rushes trojan horse inside nato. well, when you put the question,

please also make the quotation proper. because the beginning of the sentence was that debbie are going for piece and that is i'm going to was among the 1st countries immediately coastal c syiaa and b 's immediate stock. that's the only way actually at to try to sort out the company. and indeed, whatever anybody else says in this conflict at all, and each natal member, state and country regarding the war is always representing its own interest at 1st . very obviously we do have joint interest by being members of the natal, the members of a defensive alliance. also as a neighbor of ukraine and should have started with this very obvious to be have obligations when there's a war raging in a neighboring country and people are plea for their life. so this is how we stand, that this is how we approach this company. okay, i mean, i'm not going to take anything away from the assistance that you've provided to ukrainian refugees, which has been substantial. but look at your actions like refusing point blank,

to give you crane any weapons, or allowing nato to trans ship weapons through hungary to help them. moscow must have been delighted with that. no. what we don't know about moscow. and as a matter of fact, we don't care about moscow as a prime minister. and many of our leading politicians have formulated what really counts for us is that as a, as a again, as a neighboring country, we a substantial 150000 on gary and minority in the neighborhood. and the weapon shipment, any participation in supplied with made them as well as hungary, italian. don't forget about the incident. what happened in poland? we all know that all neighboring countries of ukraine can become by accident or by in zones. part of the complex, if they are not careful enough, hungary is position, has always been very clear about the weapon shipments. and the stance of that is we are at the part of, we are going for peace if that was. and if there is

a company in the om call in central europe has always been for hunger areas, not to talk about those. actually guar middle metals in the, in this, in this war be south of hungary or in this regard to ne, hungry. so again, this is a very consistent hungarian approach to arm companies in the region. there may be a consistent approach, but if you wanted peace so badly, why didn't you tell moscow to get its troops out of ukraine and do it that way. we did so hungry was among the 1st to condemn the aggression. and we have repeatedly have been asking and are asking for immediate truth withdrawal and stuff of the conflict. it's a clear violation of international law. i'll be in the lead, the, the prime minister of foreign minister of parliament. as a matter of fact, a president who just visited ukraine a couple of days ago have been completely and fully explicit about the nature of

the war and the nature of the aggression that we see in the right. yes. but what you've been proposing is exactly what moscow wanted freeze the conflict, while the criminal had the upper hand and could cement its territorial gains. in any case, why should ukraine sit around the peace talks and surrender territory to a hostile invader? has been bumming and destroying its towns and cities and murdering its people. why should it sit around with peace talks? because b stokes and compensation to the each other is the only way out of the company. another way out of the company, which is russia to get its forces out of ukraine, force is that it should never brought in in the 1st place yet, but we don't respect them without speculation. but there's only one way if you want to push them out again, instead of escalation and this golf late in the neighboring countries, let me repeat, this is nothing. you can see that the company dating back to 2014 with the unlawful annexation of the crime. yes,

we've seen sanction policies and attitudes on behalf of most of the most of us in europe, the united states. and as a matter of fact, nato not finishing the complex as a matter of fact was not able the attitude, the approach to stop the company, it has intensified. so again, properties, thoughts and effort, which we don't see on behalf of the leaders of the european union to step in between the war a bodies come the tension and try to do something for sorting out the differences. that would be the way out. when you said that, but what, what kind of piece do you think, realistically, moscow would sign with ukraine, while huge numbers of russian troops are occupying the vast areas of their country out numbered on the battlefield. ukraine would have had no choice but to effectively negotiated on surrender. and you've known that all along. but realistically, nobody has, nobody tried. this is

a point here. so the reason for that, they don't want to cement the situation in moscow's advantage to that. we believe that the better political decisions, including the sanction policies, actually special on the energy are not, are not coming the tension and not a way out of the complete it. rather they rather contribute to the escalation. hungary has been explicit on the, on say, the sanction policies and about i mean, congress political stance on the issue as an a very country. we are a small actor. we are a neighbor. we are a small actor on this field, very up. this is a lot larger forces, lot larger interests are mingled in to single out hungary. why is it hungry and hungry? an effort that is not stopping or not helping to stop the war would be justified with all due respect. again, hungry position is very clear. don't try to tell us actually that we are

watching the war effort. we are quoting any effort to bring bes, 3 grain they get in position is crystal clear. we are explicit. we are not finding, we're not having 2nd thoughts. we would like to see this happening actually on behalf of those who are triggering potential rather than call me get. why do you consists in the play down, suggestions of close relations between vladimir putin and your prime minister. you've said in the past the terms political ties attributed to the pm and the russian president don't exist. the russian, the read, the relations are not closer than those between russia and germany. that's not quite true, is it? well, there's a very simple reason because nothing substantially is what you're trying to tell of . hungary, size connections, relationship with russia is no more intense, the or particular in its quality than say, it was or is the case if it's about germany meetings in 13 years between the

leaders tell meetings, even even victor or ben said when he was in moscow, february the 1st 3 weeks before russia invaded, this is our 12 meeting. that's rather rare. he was crying about it. it is on, you know, have you come to the meetings, conversations and negotiations with german, french, italian, and other leaders? you know, you don't. the reason is actually that when you have, let's put it that way, many respect a strategy partnership with a country applying your materials with a special regard to our energy resources, gas, and oil, which is a historical inheritance. so it's not the fault, not the, not the activity of this government, which has resulted in almost one sided dependence for historical reasons on russian energy. you have to have a proper relationship which is trying to make things countable and accountable. and

the special relationship may be formulated, as you suggested only from this perspective. but when you are dependent on russian gas by 55 percent oil, more than 80 percent, i believe this kind of cautiousness is required. so, so this is your priority, isn't it? then this is your priority, don't on any account, endanger your energy supplies from russia. that's your priority in this conflict, isn't it? don't try to suggest that anybody else is having a moral superiority or immoral problem. just trying to clarify what it is i'm just trying to clarify with the best interest of hungary and that is the hungarian people to have and accountable relationship with those countries. actually, we are in connection as in trade, energy supplies. this is a very safe hungary and that when we are members of the nato that's good in that way, which is based on mutual respect. and that when it comes to the country's economy

and that is very existence, including household goods, about energy is dependent on the resources that are coming from russia. you have to be very careful because any step to a wrong direction would basically mean the whole of the country media that you had missed or been in moscow. as i said, february the 1st 3 weeks before russia invaded, this was a piece mission. he described it as a piece mission. why do you think it's failed so spectacularly? well it, it was a failure that didn't any later. and micro on that have shows have also failed. so again, hungry knows it's placing international relations as i just mentioned to you. we know that we are, especially by a military or security perspective. we are a small country ah, and our roof maneuver,

our political tools as our hands are very limited, bad i just explained to you actually that when the we have to rely on very unfortunately because of the missing infrastructural investments on behalf of the union on one side, supply, vanity, then you have to be respectful of what is happening. and again, the prime minister. we there very, the historical knowledge and the 30 years. political experience is exactly in possession of the knowledge, how to handle situations like this. we don't have more say, we don't have more influence on a great power like russia, than a germany or from so when we tried to talk about peace very obviously it was not the hungarian perspectives and suggestions and insights that were making any decides influence on what russia has decided to do just for years after

putin seized crimea, which you spoke about a little earlier and fuel the war in the dumbass region. victor, about heat praise on the russian leader saying in 2018, it needs to be recognized. that putin has made his country great again and that russia is, once again a player on the world stage. what's so great about a country that launches illegal invasion crackdown increasingly on human rights and mud as its political opponents at home and abroad? what's, what's greatness about that? what with all due respect, the sentence, the words of the prime minister are exactly true. this is what we see today. russia regain strength, claiming to regaining influence and has started the war. we do know that it was an aggression, we do know that it was an and you and, and the company that could have been prevented. actually, the recognition is there with us and you will be a leader prevent prevented this conflict who could have prevented this conflict.

i'm suggesting that those power is actually who can be hard to say measures to the powers and the influence of russia. but they don't respect the sentence of the prime minister is exactly true. this is what we see. this is greatness. does it matter and repression that bother you at all. but that's also a sign of greatness. is it? but you and you can have an opinion then as well as we have an opinion of what's happening and how, what quality, what we think about that. but still it doesn't changes the past. actually that what, what the prime minister was referring to is happening right. miss coverage wise in the since the war began, your government seems to have gone out of its way to do favors. so the kremlin. why did you insist that the russian orthodox patriarch carol be removed from any you sanctions list despite his active promotion and support for the war? well, if it's about the sanction policies, especially when it's about individuals related to churches, it's

a matter of principle that hungarian government has always been clear about the central policies in appropriate. and it's actually, it's about political not to talk about military goals, right, from the dating back from the 2014. and here we go. in 2012, 22. there is a war. after years of protection policy, it's about the churches and church personnel. we believe we believe that it's dividing line. so if you start introducing sanctions on church leaders, where are you going to stop? who is go? going to make? what is, what about russian romance then? you know, if you wanted to sanction individuals, there are other approaches and other possibilities to reach the desire target not through and the wire. they're a religious position or a sanctioning churches, as it was suggested back, that you did have other possibilities. you could have targeted russian diplomats in

protest, but most goes aggression. unlike other countries who kicked out some 400 of them, what stopped you doing the same way you scared of moscow's reaction where we are exactly doing what others are doing. you exactly know how it's going actually, behind the scenes. like, there's always a big debate. lots of bargaining, who could put on the place and not to put on this to be clear, clear here. and again, we have before the suggestion them that don't blame us on something that we have indicated before him. we have indicated that the principle methods a principle we are not supporting any sanction on any religious person that we have . and i wasn't talking about religious person. i was talking about diplomat. yeah, i think it's about the most out is no completed. there is no complete band of diplomats eda, so you have to be very careful how you, how you impose how you implement the central policy. because the ability of

capability to maintain compensation with the opposition side and that being blamed for the war. and we all know that have committed aggression is equally important. so when it's about the imposing sanctions and bringing a new sanction, you have to always have to be very careful both from this perspective. i mean diplomatic. and if you like, power perspective, but also you can obviously, as i just suggested earlier, you have been very careful. you've also had 4 months to ratify, sweden and finland, accession to nature, despite saying you'll do it, you still haven't, you said you will do it now early next year. so what the hold up just to be difficult. what just to tell you one example actually which is basically overburdening the hungarian parliament is our compensation commission and the european so we have accepted that we have negotiate, it's 17 different measures and points by which they stop started and trying

to standardize the problems. actually we have in our relationship, we were ready to throw them out at the required time and they got to tell you as the prime minister pointed out, not a minute is going to be lost because of hungary in october. i mean, you said that in october m, p 's from your party, blocked emotion that would have speeded up the process of ratifying sweden and finland succession. why did they do want you all due respect? we are hungry and government. hungarian. parliament has its own agenda is going to be put on its timeline and julia accepted as we suggested because the hungarian government is fully supported of those 2 candidates. so with all due respect, don't try to tell us and give us timelines and urge us into decisions which are going to be made according level. and finally, let's go about hungry has been at odds with brussels for some years over the rule of law issues among them, what they see as your excessive control of the media and your lacks attitude to

corruption surrounding the disbursement of e u funds. you say you have address, those concerns. the you is about to decide whether you've done enough. you certainly waited a long time to do anything at all, didn't you? nobody ever was able, we'll be able to define what exactly the rule of the mean. there are know how to say on the bias and objectives and the bench month by which it can be measured. we have, i believe we're glad and clearly indicated that we are ready to engage in the conversation with the commission if it's about the particular issues. it took the commission almost 2 years, actually tell us to tell us what exactly the problem is. we have sort of 17 points out over order that referred to out of these what technical issues from the hungarian perspective not met as a principal on our behalf. but there is no obstacle to accept or sign

the 2 agreements that are required actually to have a set have access to the defense all due respect. it's not going to be pendant on hungry are expectations. are that as we have negotiated and we may compromise very clearly everything, get congress disposal to fulfill the requests on behalf of the commission. we are expecting signatures and we are expecting that money to arrive to hungary duty as it should be, arriving by now. as a matter of fact, let, let us remind us that we are at that has been accepted 2 years ago. the original intent was to have accessed considerable amounts of money that would now, economists recover after the pandemic, and that is the car and the virus, the coffee rises to us last. we still haven't received one euro then other countries are enjoying it's not the matter of rule and law, rule of law and you know, human rights and other issues you were mentioning,

but he's a matter of competitiveness and equal treatment into european union. it's not just me mentioning human rights attitudes, a lot of your government policies have been can them pretty much unanimously by not just by human rights groups, but the you and human rights office, the organization for security and cooperation in europe. the council of europe, the us state department, but you feel that some kind of what liberal woke anti white conspiracy against hungry you really believe in all these organizations, governments and political bosses and political lobby groups. exactly. know that there are no problems with human rights here. in hungary, in july, victor about railed against what he called an idea, logical trick of the internationalists less to say, europe population is already mixed race. we hung gary and are not a mixed race. and we don't want to become a mixed race, mixed politicians in the post west on nations any more. but

a conglomerate of people. what are you so afraid of being hungry, diluting your racial purity under its perspective on those issues you just mention . it's very clear for the past more than the case by now. hungary has chosen a different way when it's about dealing with population issues. we having to use new policies based on the traditional family in face of the development invest in europe and the united states. we have chosen a different economic boss based on the jobs and the employment areas as many as possible. we have created 1000000 new jobs. we'd be very clear about if it's about the hungarian youth and protecting children's rights that they belong to the parents under the age of 18. so there's nobody, any kind of b t q propaganda in. i understand that i understand that, but mister all bands comments were widely condemned as racist. the u. s. envoy

against anti semitism double lips that said she was deeply alarmed by the rhetoric that clearly evoked not see racial ideology. she's right, isn't he? i mean, what about that one whistle to the far right, wasn't it? it really sounds like the so called the liberal persecution, that you many, beth and european media started against hungary years ago. exactly. know that the central european, the capillary. what the prime minister said, what it means is it clearly mean that somebody has never been a multi ethnic is he or country by defenders of western europe. it has always been multi ethnic by defenders of europe own history and that the central european so we don't have to tell us what multiethnic volume and mean here in hungary, but we have 11 national minorities living together for centuries or rather

a 1000 years dating back so everybody exactly knows what the prime minister means by those those worth. and we are not standing a lot most of center european central european people being alike. and that is, we don't want to be a new, new, new perception of multi ss that they bring into into central europe. we see from germany on the no, you just briefly back to the war nato, once the landscape, to win the war. your prime minister calls him an opponent. nato sends more and more weapons. you say that's just prolonging the war. do you want so landscape to win the war? we want these we don't want him to win every day somehow, or it's a cheap moscow's price. what, whatever happens, whatever happens in your brain, is no good, not only for hungry, but for euro's you see what is happening. you see the looming,

inflation and economic crises. as a matter of fact, this is, this is a crisis which is the result of best political decisions rather than reality. and that is the lack of raw materials and the proper economic crisis. well, if it's all, it all goes back, it all goes back to the origin, the ongoing and the future of the war, according to the best european heads of states and west and europe mindset. we here in central europe, especially as a neighbor of the brain, have chosen a different bottom. that is, we are calling you get truth, be start and stop the fighting. because that's the only way out of the company. i understand that, but as a nature, remember, you cannot bring yourself to say you want ukraine to win. russia was the aggressor, you've, you've acknowledged that, but you can't say that you want ukraine to win with all due respect. nato is a defensive alliance, and nato is not having good job, anything to do without a common decision in the grade. so what you see on behalf of the members they get

from that we are fully and completely standing together. we don't need to allies and we have always forward and are going to follow the common natal decisions sound call that's been good to have you on conflicts. ok, thank you very much indeed. thank you. ah ah ah, with

in a globalized world where everything is connected, all it takes is a scores. to set things in motion. local hero show how their ideas can change the world

with global 3000. in 90 minutes on d w. o . in which secrets lie behind these walls discover new adventures in 360 degrees and explore fascinating world heritage sites. d. w world heritage 360 get the app now. hey guys it's avalanche. are my welcome to my podcast, love matter by and by celebrities. influences and experts to talk about all playing loved effect from day to day. nothing less the south,

all these things and more and then you know, season of the plot can make sure to tune and wherever you get your past and join the conversation. because you know it love matter. mm. oh, okay. and they get all the harvesters are immigrants. if they come in, everything you enjoy eating at home with your family, was harvested by people who are being exploited. then i guess with, when a need to, we can keep doing what we're doing for that. we need to be commit sustainable as possible. and that's why your green revolutions can absolutely necessary. europe reveals the future is being determined. now, how documentary theories will show you how companies and countries are we thinking everything and to make you make a change in love,

we don't do something. our children won't be able to enjoy fresh air views with on d w. ah ah, this is dw news live from berlin tonight, more unrest in china over the countries code bit 19 locked down. protesters confronting security forces in the southern city of bon joe, even as some pandemic restrictions are being eat. also coming up tonight later, foreign ministers pledging more.