a reporter tracks down the arctics. major players with you see about dangerous game. people overseas that yeah, we are here. we're patrolling the area now, the cards are being re, shuffles, has the best handed. russia is a quite active economic in the arctic. if you see something that looked like james bond, it has to do with the military starts december 23rd on d, w. bellows has supported russia since the start of the war in ukraine. it's provided weapons, military bases, and logistical support. but is that support set to escalate into something more active in the literature cited? there is a consensus that we don't support this war. that billing sharma should not participate . and it also feels it also understands that if he sent out the restrict the

crane, they can defect, they can turn arms against him. that's from my guest debate. franak, we are ciocca is chief political advisor to berlin, ocean opposition leader for atlanta to come of sky up. she claims to be the national leader of bella luce, but how legitimate is her claim? and how successful has her opposition been to alexander lucre shank goes regime product there. talk are welcome to conflict on. oh, mister whitaker, over the weekend, you had russian defense minister, saturday, sure ago in bellows meeting, his opposite number. and just few days before that, you had unnamed russian generals arriving in minsk as well for various meetings. is russia planning an escalation of the war in ukraine with bella luce's help? the visits fresh and general some officers our usual thing since the question that

came to power. but to when we're has started all the deals that are signed became secret. and we don't really know how much independence, how much silver and to remain in the hands of her location. and so there were some people we believe that every visit they decide on given was here in utah, those sector of military conflicts on their control of russia. there you go and listen to music is also important because it happened just awful of this, of mr. mckee, the foreign minister, which was very close to lucas and, and it was perceived by below to some officials as a reminder, who is in charge. so go to some officials or some officers are afraid of moscow. i do want to talk about the death of foreign mr. mckay, but 1st i'd like to talk about what these written by russian generals mean. you have, for instance, described as a very dangerous development reports of russian besides including hypersonic

missiles and 5 to just to just make 30 ones being stationed in bellows. what is the information you have? is russia planning large scale ad assaults when you create an infrastructure from bella? ros. last me, silas shrugged as we have business was on november 6th from bill was 33. so if need to read it for 2 months, there were no st. strikes from from betters, but to the same time i more than 10000, the russian soldiers arrived to gather some there and deployed in different parts of our country, their passing military training. along with our troops, we see vehicles. we see as some banks we see some divisions, so very defensive to ride into bellows. it doesn't seem they are brilliant at docking a group of army on builder editor. it seems they are bringing the army in

order to control the situation in billers, in order to fix that russian occupation of visitors. we really believe that russia can use bella was as a consolation prize, in case if you will lose the war in ukraine or you, what is the berlin ocean troops might be thrown into the fight and ukraine. it's still not next 3 months. right now, russia doesn't have a capacitor now or more vehicles from billers, predatory letters, army power will not be able to conduct such exploration if the strong backup, primarily technical back up from russia also been shown soldiers. they don't have morales, they don't see cranium to enemy in society. there is a contents is that we don't support this war. the bill of our mission not participate, but also sales. it also understands that if he sent out the restricts to crane,

they can defect that they can turn arms against him. there will be split. hopefully, there will be no way for us. and he's really afraid of sending mail over central still to ukraine, because his bow, it can cost him the power for your confident that with russia has back to the wall in ukraine, essentially. losing the fight, falling behind on the battlefield as a start and by the needle. second, the general says that president putin is not pressured. i pressuring, alexander lucas shank to commit his troops into battle. your confidence that i think they're playing the role. it's the performance a question to explain the independent leader who supports russia and who wants to stay exclusive, alive or pushing. because this is the only way to stay in power to have guarantees that which will not come to murder him, but also for a question which in this is very,

very important right now in order to control the internal domestic situation. to say that her own, which is what pressure asian bush. and i think let's, let's imagine that this is the leash and lucas. and there are con the leash and puts in this trying to short them this leash so much as possible will not allow luca shenker to not leave him a space at toll. this is the goal of putting to create that up at the regime, ventilate resume, which will be doing 100 percent of everything the capital moscow will want from him . so you had said in november that a 14 was not interested in sending bell at ocean troops to ukraine. you stand by that? yes, yes, i think it will create more problems than the benefits. it's not experience for me . i was in the army, i was serving and minister on the border with the cray. it was 10 years ago,

but they know what, what, what is it location came in cage would be the in the secret services that, that they have to protect himself. but can never invest in building some army. when belittle shantel, the received mobile is ation coals. there will be a huge protest which resistance goes society doesn't support this war at all. and the look a shame, probably bolt, which in about this also push and use the lage them to that push him if i will send my troops then the all until the 20 and last year will attack me because you see they are preparing, they escalate, they deploy more troops on the border. so he use this as the reason him in order to last 10 sam tropes. so they play this performance. everyone is happy, they read their pressure, they create the pressure on the ukraine constant pressure, that least might happen. and i think that even bear the threat of sending our

booths and troops if the destruct and be courses of the cranium and help us understand alexander lucas shank, of the current leader of bellows. would he rather be on the side of president fulton, or would you rather be with the west, for instance, he will be with the weekend because when this mentally close to him, location pays the soviet man. or if he is very out a western democracy, something that goes against his principles against his, for nature, he chose russia and which in, instead of dilution people in 2020 could agree on dialogue with deliberation professors 2 years ago. but instead, he called for putting help to suppress this protest. and right now was which should the tipping point of this pro ration using an adult location. now in october, alexander location court told b. b, nbc, i'm sorry, in an interview that no one was closer to president as

a signal to the west that he was ready to mediate with president 14, between president putin and the west. to curtail his dependence on russia. lucretia to just want to stay relevant to be important, isn't all this like alpha alpha man. he wants to be the source neighbor where this is why he was so happy when the 1st means negotiations took place in 2014 and the host of them wants to be the big player. it wants to be in the 1st sleek and also all the statements about his closure. closeness to, to put him about nuclear weapons in dealers in order to raise the price to raise the horse of himself. but usually just the blossom he, he's a very poor, old, weak,

insecure man. you talked about the death of letting me my k, bella was a foreign minister, a close, confident of alexander lucca shank over. did russia have anything to do with my case? death? possible. everything is possible right now. we come to full day new over the versions. we still didn't see the obligation of the document about the death of my kid with the ominous restrictions from the past. but still there is no official information. also there they statement from location to about the death of my case peered many years after the fact was revealed. it means there is something behind it. i wish you the better. some officials are very reverend they. they feel that they can be the next and they think this bass, these could be, could be just just death, but also can be part of the bigger events,

bigger than then we were still country you talked of russian troops in ballard was there to court control the situation is bella rose, a hostage of russia. billows has taken hostage prussia and off putting together lease to criminals. they just use better territory in order to, to attack ukraine, to revising prior, and not just the same people are taken hostage. let's not forget that there are thousands of people in jail and it's a 1000 where forced to leave the country in 2021. when chris down took place against the little send them great courses. it was a preparation for actually war against the cream. you talked about the pro democracy movement. let's talk about that last week. opposition leader? maria less nicole. that ended up in intensive care for. she was transferred to hospital from her prison cell. she was perhaps one of the last major opposition figures left inside barrows. would you say her fate is

a big blow to the opposition movement inside bellows? muddy a's. a beacon spiration for many belittle sins, especially bruce and women. she became a symbol of resistance. she was selenium the so massive, huge for alice in august and september of 2020. and right now when we found out he's and maintenance of care unit, it was the big truck total loss. but was it a big blow? of course it was a big shot. was it a big blow for the opposition movement? oh, yes it was. it was, it was a blow. it was a blow, but also really have to investigate what happens to her. because just before i ended up ended up in the hospital, she was put in the punishment. so this is the cage of be style. torture cells. people are without fresh air. people are without communication,

they could be beeping there and something, something happened wrong to her. perhaps there was an order from lucas shanker personally to punish her. doesn't oldish show that the opposition movement inside bellows has been silenced. no, it's not silenced. to change the form of resistance, there are many partners i'm groups, they work in every region of the country. most of them participated in stop in the russian train. they come back some time on the railway in march and april this year . but there are now thousands of people, members of the cyber partners, i'm groups. there are a license state infrastructure and few weeks ago they hacked or rushing oversight, committee middle school, next, or league, the data to journalist. and there are many activist scapoziello tional, ukrainian flex all over the country. i will show some as disobedience campaign, not all over the counter, but in big city this primarily, when the workers of the big factor is refused to do their job. for example,

let's take that, let's take that at face value, but doesn't, hasn't that invited a greater correct down against them from alexander lucas ankle. it is indeed indeed receive right now that oppression some bigger than in 2020 every day from 10 to 20 people are being detained and people not just the same, their torture. they're harshly beaten. more active is dying treason, and this is shock a lot. and to be called one international community to react, we call on the un i to take urgent measures. let's talk about a numbers, the berlin ocean, human rights grow. the ashen are claims as many as 5000 people odd in the prism due to political reasons. they are not classified officially as political prisoners, but they are in prison because of their political activism. the united nations is hundreds of thousands of bella russians are leaving the country and going to neighboring countries. my question to you, therefore it is who is left in the country to carry out an opposition against

alexander lucas ankle bill. it says ran 1000000 people or country sold the protests to more than 1000000.5 participants. so even if we're left a few $100000.00 in the contra, still become a 1000000 to resist. also, there is a big disappointment. be willing to change the situation and to prevent that from participating in this war. so i think people who participate in the resistance right now, they did not participate in the 2020 their new people who reacted on the fact of the war. and they resist right now. they're on the front lines and they go out and they protest, despite all the better you are based outside of that was as an opposition. how effective are you?

how many people, for instance, has your movement been able to release from prison? we are in daily patch with belittle sham groups are on the ground with local communities with media. with blockers, journalists who scrapping this printed are some these li flat, put in their main mailboxes that are spanish channels leader of who, who, who on elections. she created the matrix conditional cabinet, which is like government in exile and which we know we know all, you know, all that mr via car. but then how does that helping activists inside bella roof, you admitted earlier that they keep getting thrown into prison and that cracked on has only increased in 2020. so how is your work outside helping them inside in bellows? so we pass assistance. we tried to pass equipment where possible, we conduct information campaigns to counter ration and location because propaganda,

i only use fire, belittle chance to apply. we tried to keep the morale that i had to build connection between different groups, different parties and groups within the country. and we can log before more international support for be a little show scores, field 5 and in the country. is it not a fan of your opposition movement that after 2020, at that time and of a massive st protest. and it seemed that the game was up for alexander, lucre, shinkel. he has been able to hold on and continues to govern bellows. is that not a failure of opposition movement? not yet, as we see there. correct on in 2020 was depreciation for the war. nutrition would ensure life without which him each weekend who provided him with money with soldiers, with the resources back in 2020. and right now the question k, spain is that back to approach and it's not the feeling about the situation became

much more complex. now we are part of the bigger regional jo political crisis. now we are fight images for democracy or democratic elections, but we are fighting for the very existence of bella, state hall. and in order to get the, it was free and independent. we need the victory of the grant settle, i'm african sky, your boss to and to whom you provide political advice, emerged from the 2020 election and particularly the protest, the most street protest that happened after that. she presents herself as the leader of the bell. russian opposition is she i think she's a national leader ability president elect one elections but didn't take her office because of the question conclusion. is she the leader of the validation opposition? i think she's on the durability nation because look at some crazy and opposition.

got more than 70 percent of roles. just call her the present before she does not lead a united benediction of position. she lives in the united democratic versus exactly . she united all the major groups, traditional political parties and the new groups that appear in 2020. and of course there are different they do all different use among different politicians. but she's absolutely are we unify and future to, to all of the will. she delivers. trim democrats, let's see how unifying that is because an opinion followed by telegram baseball stuff. not rodney operas among opposition minded bella. lucian's found that the color scheme regiment of bella lucian volunteers fighting in ukraine, was 5 times more popular among bell at oceans than mrs. atlanta. to kind of sky, clearly she's not a leader of a united opposition issue. this is the oldest,

they're just the mom activists of this specific group. i'm calling oscar regimented just the group of meet variable into years. i can the ukraine. so listen, compare, you know, political leadership and, and fighters and the, let's forget to try to most participate in elections in one election, multiple of servers, surveys, polls or international to prove that she one elections. she received 2 or 3000000 vote. so the calling to see the regiment is irrelevant as an opposition group. in oscar regiment is the part of the democratic and independence movement. they are fighters in ukraine. they are fighting for liberation of ukraine and they, are they disorder from huge respects from we all support their if they what you say, they are popular they are not popular. as politicians therefore, are soldiers because they sacrifice a lie, a notice to, to save ukraine,

because they understand that when you cradle with the wind as well. so they are not seen of the part of the opposition. then. now the fighters and all that sort of divide and petition some the fighters and military volunteers. schools are in the cranium. army of course they are, they are playing very important role. and 1st of all, they see they preserve the group name of the school, where seem by many ukrainians as aggressions. i'm calling those key regimen. they prove that not old. there are like lucas and the regime and people are 2 different things. right. let's talk about minutes, chicken sky. you keep saying in this interview, the, the national leader of bella rules and she has a keeps calling us of the national leader of bellows, but who accept for lithuania, agrees to call her that almost every country she comes. she smirks on the presidential level in the parliament. she sold his address. madam president,

today just and there is no, there is no, but there is not official recognition of her as the leader of been the rules are there is the fact recognition. there is the level of vertical which are defined as far as the kind of state. there is no years from this years. we don't, we didn't go into this game or legal recognition, but it's more than just the game, isn't it? because alexander location goes, regime continues to have diplomatic relations with a lot of countries, particularly those in asia and africa. for instance, there, alexander lucas shan't go counts as leader of bellows and not music taken us less. sure, that's true. and this is, this is the problem for us because loose nation, them, they come to the united nations general assembly, and they vote for very often in supports of proposal. so lucretia called russian

the in the show. this is why we are trying to reach out the countries outside of the european union that we already spoke latin america. we have some, some relation there will be a reached out africa services page as well, but the local worker to be done. but the most important in terms of the economy in terms of trade and political relationship or courses. so the european union, what percentage not recognized as the leader? and now we are asking the recommendation team as them as the work criminal. now mr . scott is also sought to find the common cause with ukrainians. we began this into redundant, but the ukraine was, let's talk about you can, will she have fed and i caught that cannot be a free bellows without a free ukraine. does ukraine see it in the same way as well? yes, i think the ukraine is, but a little bit little bit different. they see dealers as the guarantee of security of safety because of location,

space and power. there will be counts from threat to ukraine. like it's happened in february, february, this year, lucretia promised that they will not be attacked from billers territory and suddenly, this attack happened and rush, thanks most the reached key from from bellows ukraine. understand the importance of having a good relationship with billing people. we have 1000 kilometers, common bull order. and right now we are trying to build this relationship again. we're trying to coordinate our activities and go to work, to connect with some resist in a rational supply and forces situation and better. some crane are different, but we find the same enemy. one final question, sherman chicken hasn't yet been able to meet president landscape. when is that going to happen? yes, she met her officially on the informally at one of public events. it will happen

when there will be willing cranium. but she's very good relationship with the whole now the ukrainian parliament weekend with relationship with the minister of foreign affairs. but we understand why ukrainian dumped me fur. they don't want to provoke cushion. is it also because they do not trust her? no, i think because there was a clear crime of lucas shown here for mid to most care locations are, can escalate the conflict against the crane or even introduced troops. so for ukrainians, for now the most important to minimize the risks when the ukraine recognized a national leader of and i was efficiently i think it her if, if luca introduces her troops, miller's troops to craig, this process will be speeded up, and then ukraine can recognize most can meet her, but right now they are very cautious. they don't want to try to play with fire.

it's been a pleasure talking to you. we have to leave it there. thank you so much for joining us today for not via talk with ah, ah, with

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