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tv   Robert Wilson  Deutsche Welle  December 29, 2022 10:15am-11:00am CET

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israel's history and include several ultra orthodox and ultra nationalists parties . it's the 6th government formed by netanyahu, who is still on trial for alleged corruption. we're going to end it there. don't forget there's more to be found on our website that is and, and social media. the handle for instagram and twitter is at the w news. i'm michael uh, who in berlin for me in the team here. thanks so much for your company and wherever you are, have a great day. ah. a thought they will credit you.
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mm mm. in theaters very often i feel that they have to start something, but it's already going on just listen cust, porterville. and albert einstein once said that the most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious as but in a world where everything already seems to have been discovered. what is still mysterious? robert wilson would answer, art i buy you with light like bob. this is like a dream experience. slap this fee, and i think he's an artist 24 hours a day every day. if the you could. now we bought as a one or wales creating really totally from his point of view
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a . this is bob. he's a dancer, artist, architect, designer, sonal, grava, collector and director. the new york times is called him the world's foremost vanguard, theatre artist, germany and france, have showered him with honors for making out to me my work as living. yeah. i can imagine that now as i have to go in and do something creative, it's already going on. my name is com 30 years ago as a child, i saw my 1st bob production in hamburg, the black rider, with music by tom, waits and text by william burroughs. i've been pondering it ever since. what's
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happening here? why does this trigger me so much? is there a deeper meaning to it, or is it all a kind of fancy mirage? remember sammy, this is not the couch, so it's the bob shop. ok point taken, bob, it is. for this film, i went on a quest for the secret behind the beauty. and where do we go 1st when were hunting for secrets into the past? ah, bob was born in waco, texas in 1941 into a conservative world where art didn't happen. his teacher bud hoffman helped him overcome his stomach. later, he named his foundation off to her i guess everything one does is autobiographical. it's the same body. it's the same signature it, sir. a tree
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a minute grows and sometimes it's and storm. sometimes it loses leaves and sometimes it has new leaves, sir, but it's the same body working. i like her hummingbirds. i grew up with hummingbirds, discontented and having long outgrown his home environment. he studied economics in austin for 3 years. then he broke free, moved to new york and studied architecture, painted, danced, produced videos, and soon created his own theatre company. bit by bit. all of this created the reality and substance of his work. ah, my life. and what i did in my work happened by chance as by living life, there's not something i not necessarily from reading
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a book or going to school. yes, it had influences, but the big lesson of my work i think was living and experience of life. and the things have happened unexpectedly. it was thus that he met the compose of philip glass and together they created einstein on the beach. ah, basically we put ourselves in a oh, a 1975 rocket and circles. i meant the exceptionally likable phillip glass in my living room. although only virtually my attachment i saw had to do with my relationship was well,
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we were very close at that time. oh, oh, when we made were we oh, when we meet these dice, it's the same. the genius of bob is being able to bring something to the stage, but you wouldn't sit on the street. or you wouldn't say in your room or, and your or your room at all. by the way neither of us ever knew what i saw on the beach was, oh, actually don't, wasn't they so original tunnel. the original tunnel was einstein on the beach on wall street. i said, well, i don't look at the wall street car. you said ok, let's kept our portal. ah ah,
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i was in the back of her head was the reason that we made the decision of reason for the color of reason for the, the, the triangular shapes that go throughout the reason far or the violin violin. i see also that on the see rice, i was farrier, decisive, informing the material as a p. c t. it, it, it, it, it. einstein symbolizes a change of perspective. so what would the world be like if we could see it from a different angle? and through the eyes of a person with autism, for instance, unlocking these strange worlds is what bob is trying to do. and the next big influence was when i met chris arnold, a 13 year old child who was living in institution for brain damage, brain injury, children. i asked chris once here in this apartment, i said to chris, who is einstein? and he said, i don't know, this is chris who has einstein. and he said,
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i don't know, chris, who was einstein. you said i don't know. chris was einstein should i? i don't know, chris, who was honest, i said, i don't see chris, who's einstein. he said, i don't know to chris who is einstein says let me think. and then he wrote 12 chapters and he gave him to me a couple of days later. and it went something like it some when for the cell boat and you can view these for it is when it gets them when he gets home. when i when he gets in with me, i didn't know about citizens. he didn't tell me it was going to walcott station and, and the clothes show. oh,
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so ended an opera that is almost 6 hours long. has no plot to speak of features, seemingly repetitive music and with words by an autistic youth. that i, so often been bob's work, made no sense in the traditional way. it was a challenge and the since asian, especially in europe, it was the foundation of a truly international career. but if bob harb as a secret understanding, it is more complex than just looking into his past. maybe we'll find some answers back stage. he's been completed on 50 important. i'm christine plato. and we are here in the center of the rehearsal stages at the dusseldorf shall spill house. we were currently rehearsing robert wilson's version of dorian gray, simply title dorian, talking to him, i had it put in my contract that i am to be on stage alone. so it became a monologue. it is indeed
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i am a man and was a shitty fan or mano has to put up with a diva like me. the mere want a lot of people don't know is that in a hairpins are pushed straight into the brain. that's where the ability to think abstractly comes from aspects of you think that is good. okay, christian. yeah. if yes, fine. so that'll hold. i became part of the bob family relatively late, honey, because bob tends to like to work with people from this family. i. people who know his whole body of work, who are familiar with all the movement patterns began school, she could easily apply for bookish kin. then you have a little bit circle around the room. alex, i'm human, i'm fine. it will make fun. is lazy. byron sadler,
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who came from your who said the regimen spiral skipped and he can fudge anguish. there is no wrong way of doing things when something unexpected or unplanned happens. it serves as a kind of trigger or in spies him even further. it's been the school at all ish. you get a sense for him to buy it at a bank. i can get white plaster of a much good deal that you all so cents what he is looking for. good. that's vestment. and you sense what it is you all meant to do in that moment, went into freedom was i spoke with bob. ah, ah, willem dafoe is one of the most versatile actors of our time. and
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a full time academy award nominee. he's worked with bob on numerous occasions. we're about to discover the part he played in the death of the performance artist. marina abramivitch. language is so developed and often he'll get up and it kind of show you things. i actually do a performance and you start by copying and then of course you make it your own and you worked from there. but one of the 1st things you do is just kind of play around with him because let's remember he's, he's a performer is a dancer, and among many other things, off balance and the 2nd part more closed. and i love that because when you get a very strong language, you can relay that phrase you. it gives you a structure in la
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in sh. yes ma'am. once you sacrifice everything, basically, theater is his life. marina abram of its the mother of performance art is of course very much alive and it was but she took to the boards with willem dafoe. and christopher mill in her own requiem, the life and death of marina abramivitch staged by paul. i'm very sorry. she led a friend to her house, normally was all the play russian roulette. ah, they live in the library sitting obsolete pena. christopher mail is not just a talented actor, but also a gifted singer then spun around. oh,
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i talk with this baby and you're late, which is fashionable. it's okay. i can. oh yeah. i always deal with this. i love, this is wonderful middle. it's very awesome. power night is 712, maybe 3. i'm not sure. it was long time ago. he was the way harmony is to the cultural center, which was like the really, you know, kind of avant garde center in, in that time, in belgrade and by 11 o'clock under the, how you called the housekeeper from the center wall. so leave there it is. common is time, so he said we're closing, i want to sleep. and bob totally ignored going on and on and he grown for another. the guy come. so we are closing, i want to sleep not to happen with a guy come down with the pistol. this is the true story and shoot in the air. then bob took serious and then we'll go home room after such a 1st meeting. it's no surprise that marina wanted to work with bob. i always want
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talk with bobby, this radiant secretary on my life. she was particularly impressed by bob's ability to condense things. it was a genial, scholarly, actually minimize my mondor in 3 more. what's one movement? is it close the head with the finger up and down, up and down, pointing the direction and sloppy. 3, thanks. tis was my entire mother back in place before came to the hospital. i remember one son walking on this street. an actor came up to me that i worked with in many graham, he said, how do you do it? you know, i referred to you like working with him. he said it's really difficult for me. i just can't find my funding in this way of working. but i like it very much. i
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think it makes people doing something on stage, but his actually always just interested in what you you do on stage or just here where the person can can do a one of these i'm you wouldn't want to, you know, not this boss with money. he's been naval i. tom is not table. i'm the bookkeeper. up to him. i take notes enough to skin gallon. i met bob in 1983 and we've been working together ever since 94. he creates the space and the 4 door met booking. and i think the more you bring to the table, the more you can contribute those comp die. that's because bob would never tell an
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actor what to think of it. he never say at this moment you're thinking this or feeling that saddam never any to give to him no form. he provides every one with a framework and it's more external is a form is not this framework as oppose a position in the space. but the thinking and what fills in the framework, what one does with it, how they can feel secure in it for that they have free reign, doctors. oh, the cartoon come at the other sticklers to fly high over world. but who had sniffing afar. you asked me before what it's been like working with bob for all this time. yeah, it feels a bit like family. absolutely missing on be familiar. the word family has popped up several times now and it fits very well with the word secret. i've come and to close contact with this international family again and again during filming, and it's clear every member makes their own unique contribution. friends, friends? no. oh, no. oh, some for friends,
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so. so for, for many years now. no one kind of family. ah, bob's art is collaborative time off to time. it is populated by the same people with m to pho, isabella pear. christopher nel oh stefan cook. tom waits is a legend in his own right. i still can't quite get my head around the fact that he agreed to talk to me about bob, to this film. really, harry socks on. and i'm european a in zone. i mean you're lucky the i'm not wearing shorts like that go to miles. i a looked like
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a science student from the 50s. i didn't know what to make of that. well the, i don't know that was a while ago. i'm, i'm older now. i of the game like you, me, mom, come away from the experience and not be completely changed. hey bob. ah. as i am, i miss him. i'd say a very interesting part of my life spent where he was up, so it was all very enriching. and i'd love to do it again. if i came in do without getting a hijacker. no on may appear. ah!
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oh god. oh, oh tracy lee been now room. oh sir, i'm a room is me mom and bruises. i felt really charged. the borrows tom waits mentions is william burroughs, the great american beat writer. he wrote the texts for the black rider, costello lundberg. mm hm. i worked with william burroughs and foul the cookie. com. it's irons, how the stark market crashes as how the bottega man shares, is see sam bullets is special for a single target. a certain stag? oh,
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a certain person. i mentioned before that i saw the black rider when i was a child. oblivious that the central themes in is a hair when addiction and the authors not particularly child appropriate biography tokenize for my mother in law. so can hide in manhattan center again, a susan lackey mckinney. if i don't think i can get an woods, i sign in love with the devil gives bill home cursed bullets. the last one hits his beloved william burroughs killed his 2nd wife in an attempt to shoot a glass of her head. william forrest doesn't strike one as a funny man. ours are full of humor. that's a fall of irony. burrows like a mask, but listen to her voice. so he's laughing. tom waits to come
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along with a blank rider. oh, hello, gail: ty, take off your skin and dance around in your bones on drink here, blood like why says that. we're gonna have a good time. the center, the whole thing was just my report. but i could go re him with anything. i'm going through that i want him to help me with any work. no, boy. oh boy. all the people there are in like a repertory company. the actors are you can tell that it was either that or in the same asylum for them because they are show cracked and cracked open and she breaks
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or might be dial and dial is there raj, the actors or been tom blair appeared alongside christopher mel in bob's production of shakespeare's sonnets at the belly. no sambal for fun. all these and multiplying of watch. i don't know, but he's able to develop something that wasn't there before or was there but very simple. ah yes. as his sex the cleaning hits, which i can only honestly agree god, is nothing more to say that was just magnificent. just magnificent. with the lady, with the sunny disposition is towel to hers. she worked with fast, been the am shilling and thief,
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and is almost unrecognizable. under this typical bob style makeup man, me fortuna. schmidt came main switch mach when me say a ban melvin video and tell them him in man, and gamma luck man, back up wooten, last flu cushioning than my fate wishing me like to know. one more reaching home features like him, like him with friends, possessed desiring this man's art. and that man is coping with which i most gingerly content commonly used in the bob family, spans generations and continents. and in doing so, it wardens horizons you
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know it's bumps were and when i worked with a my love for farming for him, i loved making him laugh. i was always performing for him. william says he wants to make bob love. and actually it occurs to me that may be laughter is another key to understanding bob's work. if you ever leave us, god forbid. what do you think your friends will miss? ah, i have no idea that i think further some of the best friends. ah. we enjoy a bottle of red ryan and laughing bob patty. bob described himself as funny. oh, we can't laugh. we shouldn't make theater. oh, that's a
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good. there's also a part of him that sir, that's a texan and the guy that likes grammar and likes to personality and, and you know, i liked the good joke. it worked very well with opposite center when something should be sammy for relief. plum said for it's cavity, and when something's really, carnegie tends to have a 10 a have a good feeling for the dark side. mm. i mean, just open a scene for me is so much humor, you know, in the 3 conference and, and the dogs had the andrea's so much fun with his dogs because they been highly trained. and then the 1st thank time they came on the stage that just piece around and then one come and shit in the front. so it was so complicated. i was lots of fun. me too much. you can always get to him with human. what humor is something
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that doesn't just lighten things off. it also opens the mind, additional lockets on it that i noticed that with him for all the seriousness and cruelty of the subject matter. like, for example, dorian gray when drives people to suicide, smoke who's a murderer himself. if he commits crimes and teeth, and yet there's an element of humor involved. thought it provides a cooler to get to the s and this feasible reason way to look at a little further and in can on. i do not want you to provide that to good. what is the bean and girl to have just hinted out? bob is not exactly fun and games. i to have felt the intense gravity of his personality is so many different ways, how you can see the bob quietly loyal and loving. very serious. he's very sweet or strong genius, who more as i said, i enjoy performing for him when we're making i enjoy knowing he's out there and
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when we make him, i really do it to please him and try to connect the dots for him. ah, but he's also quite in the ways quite severely this baltic tyranny. rigorous. strict. wow. and then you can see what when the rumble, emotional gentle and loving, ah ah, i spent in if i guess i'll never forget the thing that made the biggest impression on me during rehearsals for me a little bumps spent 5 minutes showing me a dance. and he was improvising to of natania the character i was playing going mad . den natalie dinged peter phillips. i had tears in my eyes because i was laughing
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so hard but. but at the same time, i found it sad because it was really movie nights at his college in finance to it was fun to so much at once. i didn't know what and then he said, when in fact now you know you answer them for the next 5 minutes in front of the whole company on this, cuz i, i had to replicate exactly what i just seen, all of that. and one i was dancing once again. i was laughing so hard because the muster and also felt embarrassed. and yet it was an amazing experience. mo, most like that, i'll never forget and listen to more wendy bennett gives me forget, ah ah ah. 6 6
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slumped doses. i think that's what people referred to as christmas, or actually it's not something you can learn or try out or study. you either happy till you don't i think ah, i was astounded by how he suddenly enters into this other world and how he goes inside himself. he mind listens to his body and drifts off and he couldn't care less what any one thank washed and it's like he's completely caught up in what he's failing to you and and feeling it. oh no. maybe if he could change, try for every one the day. we look at the same bye,
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same 34 minutes, 25 minutes. 19 minutes 3. so that's a good rhythm zones. this is z. watching bob work is often a meditative experience. he radiates severe, sacred seriousness and benevolent warmth. this enables him to enthrall and command entire theatre companies, as well as well famous stars like lady ga. gov, isabella, rosaline, lou reed, and tom waits. oh, harry, i get there. i are only 3. there's no coffee. i took cold theatre to get enough sleep the night before long over, you know, you know, slowly all comes together and bob knows how to perch everybody up wake everybody
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is this guy landing personality in and you want to help him with his vision and you want to be the best part of his mission to show that i did with him were quite physical. and i love to have that kind of physical demand. but you know, if you're going to do it better be lit, dance and then the dark and no one likes like bob is the best. these get the best like me this huh. maybe i will see when i'm hanging with the harness there. and then he will just look at me and he said, pencil said the genta 50 for the golden rule as
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ever to blue. literally off from the harness. but it doesn't matter. he could put it all there. have to be living person. this is so precise of you know, our or is it completely turns your world upside down really. as a rough and it all practice take a lot out here. yeah. he lose hair. you know, you really but is gotta be made out of certain, right. i like einstein, we might look for the secret on the sub atomic plane to somewhere in the space between the smallest particles. bulbs off the staff not says nothing can be arbitrary. so when people alleged that his work has no context, and it's all just random or arbitrary, it's knows this is a nice the both of your hand send it back. i can now put on the
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side. so they said no, go sometimes, right? and then take the tip of your fingers further away. point one thing or somewhere in there should be a high p. i sent too much or i remember so well one point when the lamb the whole is though is something on the stage any ever the the pencil in his hand and he just said, break pencil. he stop every t says stop. where is the red pencil? we could, we can get thread pencil in afternoon. no. at, with his stop rehearsals, stop somebody all to go and get the bloody red pencil. now is red, pensive, now we can start this museum 2nd before mathis. i realize that most of the time you
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can't see him, you just hear his voice. not understood well that he his voice. yes. until i have done no kind got our times just his breath is audible. that also has also said stop should be higher than the border this just in front of this lamp banana stolen. and leon, if he puts a chair in an empty room, you can be sure that if moved 10 centimeters to the left, it will have just rights. and he knows exactly. that's where it should be about the nozzle. dumb says on figures should be over on the side and then he just trusts his own vision. i knows how to achieve it. is seamless as to say everything is glowing. you're moving into a higher in the desert than deer over by the rock here. yeah, nobody joselle irene. bye lou, there's anything at all like bob,
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bob to be a bigger like big huge. if i saw this d technica here, i'm house. i remember how skeptical the stage crew here in this there to was at the beginning when done. and then at some point they became aware of the magic thought, oh, and that they had to get a feel for how and when they moved things on and off the staging turned the light that's on the wagon be very big on this against her. it was really great to see how we came together as a team were, and it's only through this cohesion and that a performance will or won't work order. and that's also what he says as, as the officers that you have to have an awareness of the whole thing happening is, um, too often, actors are so fixated on themselves and working with bob. you learned that the performance can only succeed if everybody involved, whether on stage or off, works together for the bruno. no one can do it without the others. if you wanted it or not. okay, and the,
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the dollars shouldn't be blum blurt or maybe we wouldn't blood caplener. ah . is me the and yeah, it's lucky rex. this big structure at the some to cost that comes of architecture take to work for lee of light. find far a splashes of color. shall ashby of act is all the figures they may charge. pillars, game of movement and vehicle. what else is there? because it's all put together and you have to envision yourself. that is one part of it in the front and pay ah, these san as reached
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a level of refinement at that's very high. and he finds people that respond to his way. ah, and i'm one of them with i remember one thing that was that i enjoyed every night was anthony singing and marina sound on stage, and i'm sitting in this pile of newspapers. i'm picking up this text and reading. and when i picked them up, i can chose to read a lot a little also where by put it in relationship to the sang and to the music. 942006. ringback she said, yes, yes, yes,
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as it's just a statement of facts and there's something very moving with the music playing and where we are in the play that you know, this life comes down to these facts. ah, ah, all of this is a rehearsal. the said stories in my life that really makes me cry because i'm shame of them and it's difficult them. and i had the problems with his stories for so long, and i give to him, he ought to use them. and he said to me, can i stop this bullshit crying over on the rehearsals, i say, you know, probably have to cry not chill in 10, somehow, you know, i have to rehearsing. and after playing this, please, i am free from all of this. ah, ah,
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working with bob was liberating for marina because it created a stream of subconsciousness, something like lucid, dreaming. if you just sit there and you, you almost get into a kind of dream like state. it's not almost kind of like a dream like state egg. in fact, it is. he's creating all the conditions for dreaming. so does bob's work permit insight into another state of consciousness. he is certainly interested in these hidden realms of the human mind. to say the baby is born dreaming with his eyes close. what is he dreaming? the play of light and the set. the space. just put me in a trance. m. i always remember, bab,
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it's nice to find that other way of saying when you're at the theatre, we can experience things and dreams, am psychedelic trips that have profound meaning for us, but to lose our powers of description. so is there really any point in seeking meaning in bob's work? should we not simply allow us the freedom to challenge our very individual experiences and perceptions? it might be more fun with a, with a heart meaning no, never think about what they mean with the people. ask who i work is about. and i say,
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i don't know. and i don't think it's a responsibility for an artist to necessarily understand what it is that he does. everything must have been any except my number for you. einstein and heisenberg called it the uncertainty principle. i made this film to explain bob's art, but the closer i came to it, the more resisted explanation. so i hope you get the chance to have your own experience of it and find your own meaning in it. because i can't explain it. and actually, i don't really want to either and believe see for yourself. he pressed his lips. laura with thank you for everything. bob.
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with how to rescue food for india. huge wasted start up in new delhi has the coverage and it turns out into animal feed from the city. the project is finding consensus and not just among the counter pico in 30 minutes on d,
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w for the longest serving era to the throne. and finally, i could only urge you to think of your brand under those billions of being without your voice, from popular friends. to controversial monarch charles the 3rd, the making of a monarch in 70 d w. we've got to understand that globalization works, but he does not reach more than 30 percent of the world population. very simple in the mediterranean, as become a kind of great sarcophagus. if anything he was proud of it was to be a steel walker. this is denise to come here for life. who are the winners and losers? globalization, where do we stand? starts january 5th on d,
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w. ah, ah ah, this is news ally from berlin. israel's longest serving leader is returning to power, completing a remarkable political comeback. benjamin netanyahu is set to be sworn in his prime minister again this time leading the country's most right. when government ever.

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