on d, w o m sometimes the b, c i t, t, the one making the headlines and what's behind them. d, w, news, africa. they show that the issues in the continent life is slowly getting back to normally where on the street to give you in the reports on the inside our corresponding with the ground reports. tito, who's africa every friday on d w the conflict in ukraine is only one of the was vladimir putin is fighting at home. he's cracked down viciously on descent and opposition. hooton's chief target in russia has been this man, i like say in the valley. now,

in jail with his anti corruption foundation band and labeled extremists, they're calling on russians to do whatever they can to stop the war and ukraine. but what about the dangers in taking on the spate? my guest this week in exile in london is one of the, in russia that can dissipate in elections. that can i launch campaign day if possible at this point. for now, the group is naming and shaming thousands of officials for supporting the war in ukraine. but how far will that dent putin's power and why, despite so many common goals, are russian opposition groups still fighting amongst themselves? a shock of welcome to conflict zone is made to be with you. at the beginning of this month, associates of alexei and the valley called for what they put it as a part is an underground in russia to resist the war. in ukraine,

your organization is banned, it's labeled extremists. so anybody who answers your call is taking quite a risk and bay, let us put it into context throughout its history. and to gotcha foundation and alexis had a regional network of branches and over 40 cities, we had about 200 people working for us in moscow. in spring up to relocate all the key people outside of russia. now when the russia started brutal aggression against ukraine in february, even more restrictive measures will put in place. at the same time, we're in different regions and over the last few months we have been feeling that the discontent is growing. and our goal is to use our connection, our networks, the people who used to work with us, our volunteers,

to try to supplement this discontent and provide some organizational structure. yeah, please say you say times have changed. penalties have changed your organ, i'm declared. you know, it's been declared extremist, you're asking people to spread information, provide legal assistance, but also enters. and the danger of getting caught doing that is what there is a danger in russia now just for going out to the street the war. at the same time, we encourage all russian people inside russia, outside of russia to do their part, to stop this war. woodson, everybody chooses what they do according to their own abilities, according to their own beliefs and appetite for reese. but to confront this regime

is i think a duty off any reasonable person and we want to and who can little little bits and pieces. ready spread out leaflets inside. is it sabotage isn't bits and pieces. sabotage is a pretty serious thing to get engaged. yes, but, but it is our goal to bring down this resume and sabotage is one of the non violent instruments to do that. how is it non valued sabotage? how is that number people have been blowing up enlistments and they can, there has never been a blow up of ill messman center or are they there have been studying fired to an unfair and brutal war is i think it's very commendable. we definitely support this activity and that's what we're doing. we created a system that allows people to rename anonymous. so we try as much as

possible to limit, but ultimately the person decides him celebrex itself. what is the level of risk that they can tolerate in finding that the russian people simply going to overthrow putin? it's just not going to happen. so, so in the grand scheme of things kind of resistant to take i think the change in rush will come from a combination of these suspects in the political, in the population. and both of these groups of people were having white a hard time since that was started, people at the top have seen their fortunes decimated their lifestyle when they had vacation in western europe, when the children go 3rd and for an average person,

they have seen inflation they have seen familiar foreign brands left coffins coming back from your crate and for what the military operation has not been going . busy very successfully for. busy russian army, so these processes take time, but it points they will reinforce each other and that people think coffins returning from the war. people are also seeing hundreds put in jail, many facing 15 year sentences for resisting. and the most trend. police inform us everywhere. who knows how many may have penetrated your organisations? what's been the response to your call for basing our efforts on more than a decade of work in russia indifferent read all were 10000000 subscribers who different different social networks

and email distribution, lease least of over a 1000000 people. so we are not starting from for, for understandable reasons. we don't disclose the response and we don't disclose the scale our white optimistic. their response has been dozens of thousands of people who would like to participate in this network. mister shock of one of your most ambitious ventures has been to compile a list of 6000 rushes, said to be bribed takers. war mongers. corrupt officials propaganda the people you accuse of enabling the invasion of ukraine. are you not concerned that this is the equivalent of sort of painting a target on the back and encouraging people to shoot them?

indeed, there have been a many people who are the killers of these resumed people who are involved in war propaganda. people who are assisted to put your regime, his cronies, and the 4 years our team has been advocate traitors of human rights abusers against people involved in caption. but our holes have been falling on deaf ears. it has been at say, some of crimea and meddling in ukraine. now, after the war, we've seen an avalanche of sanctions and make suggestions to western governments to make their sanctions policy more nuanced. and we came up with this list that we advocate and we law

be whereas western governments that these people who start over the war and who are now continuing to support the war that's that's, that's it has received quite why quite good support fraud ah, just recently there was a resolution passed in us house of representatives. busy most most visible, the, the top priority to 100 people from our list in terms of sanctioning them in the us . so i think it's working, one important aspect i want to list in yes, just briefly, just briefly by september 5 months after you and asked to be taken off it. are you surprised that the vast majority seemed completely untroubled,

bio accusations and just ignored the shaming? 400000, mostly out of 6 out of out of out of 6. how many is it? it's not many to his mind in terms of support of the war in terms of being part of the government structures being on the board of process states on company is that already a lot, because without our list, this number would be 0. so reviewing this list every 2 weeks, there are some updates. we take people out. if there are reasons a list will make additions and and specifically at the the nature of our list is that we punishment, but then as an instrument of caution. so that less people support the war

and contribute to it so far as a person, an official or a business man is sanctioned. and there is nothing they can do that can remove them from this list with us. it's different if you're in the board of a state company. if you resign or if you're in the top management of a state company agency or a resign, send us proof of that and we'll review it and we'll take your 8. you're the best known opposition group in russia, and you've had some remarkable successes. you lifted the lead on a huge amount of corruption. you've shown films, pollutants, palace, $12000000.00 views a month on youtube, something like that. but what sign is there? but any of that has materially affected putins support in the country. and the valley has said put in is afraid of the truth,

but protein simply simply shrugs off your tooth as fake news fight and oppressive regime like witches. we have been doing it for a number of years. there are some objective benchmark jeff, if result was the results of election in moscow, mayor in 2013 when alexis was able in election. so he got 28 percent of walls as opposed to 50 was for the company man. so, and that was being a sort of a new commer, despite the incumbent mayor, having all the sources, all the resources that the 9 years ago should go about everything has changed since then. everything has changed. what has putin got to be afraid of? now the van is, as they said, it will be the white discontent in population. and

the, if you, even if you talk about close circle of fortune, they are really not happy with the state of affairs. they like to go back to how things work. and they were able to enjoy their, well, they were integrated in the west that they were used to. now it's all broken. and that's what needs to be afraid. there's a big factor, of course, what happens on the battlefields all ukraine. all right, i want to come to that, i want to come to that a little and plenty of people have talked about the disunity that seems to attend these groups. why hasn't your organization put more effort into each other? indeed, we have been working with

a very democratic politic co force says we're years. well, we participated in a number of elections together with different other democratic forces. i remember in 2021, when was the last election 2021. the opposition sion can't be united, a liberal, can't agree with a nationalist or communist. it's simply impossible. it's a big drawback, this kind of make real effort at trying to do something useful and not just talk in groups. but the thing that made navarro me and our, our means a successful and we in crooks and we were able now to keep dozens of people in our office outside of russia,

is that we focus just work. our youtube channels are probably the most popular current news sources in russia. and now we're restoring this work in ross up through our regional network. and we 70 people mostly in the us, in a few other european cities as well, who work full time on this. and this has to be a goal. the other part is need to bring something to the table. it's not enough just to be a blogger, be able to join forces with us and to have equal. why says in what we do, mr. shell, cough, do you ever foresee a time when bo contender on rushes national stage? i asked because ladyman me left for my minister and economic advisor in the van.

and he said last week that that for public discontent to translate into political change. can you honestly tell me is wrong? well, i think he's one of the, one of your closest advisors. absolutely. but he all, you always need to put words in the car against the war and against all can brutality in russia. you will be find you will be detained, organized a position in russia that can participate in elections. that can lot us, it's really not possible at this point. but the millions of people who supported us was supported other democratic forces, many of whom, who had to move out of frost. they didn't go anywhere. and one,

a great deal liberalization. and, and still it is. we're the ukraine, and start off some way. once that starts and i believe that it will start within the next 5 years, maybe even earlier. i think there will be a opening for us and for the democratic forces to enter the rest some politics properly. if the war is as long and bitter as some people fear, what do you think that will do to russia? you said, you think that might be an end to hosted on the binding changes taking place in the country as a result of this war? different people believe in different things in terms of difficult to envision that the war will. and in the next few months, i think it's something like

a year in the year we'll stop. why, what, what makes you say that? i think within a year it's reasonable to expect that make a few more significant advances on the battlefield. we see that the rust from military capability and the flow of arms and coordination is improving. they already bold enough to launch attacks in the sort of, in, in the jewell of rush navy in several stapo and go home. that's not what i said. i'm saying that the military of the bill, it is the balance of power, is shifting the ukraine and we will see that manifesting itself

on the battlefield because ill toll be and of course the losses from the ukranian front are taking more defrost and public. ah me, so i think in a year there is for us is with believe to author believe. and again, we're all speaking in probability and possibilities here to ross's inability to continue the war. all right. my prediction value, mash, oak of it's been good to have you on the program. thank you very much indeed. being uncomfort, so thank you. thank you for having me. ah

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