i am currently more people than ever on the news world wide in such a better life. one of us and so it as a committed god the hello good ashley. this is a finance to pay this de nanda bernice human bank citizen. find out about rubinez story in some idling, reliable news for migraine. wherever they may be. belittles has supported russia since the start of the war in ukraine. it's provided weapons, military bases, and logistical support. but is that support set to escalate into something more active in bella reciting? there is a consensus that we don't support this war. that bill of our mission not participate

. and it also feels it also understands that if he sent out those troops, the ukraine, they can defect, they can turn arms against him. that's from my guess, debate franak we are ciocca is chief political advisor to bela lucian, opposition, leader for atlanta. the kind of sky up, she claims to be the national leader of bella luce, but how legitimate is her claim? and how successful has her opposition been to alexander luke or franco's regime? product near charco. welcome to conflict on. oh, mister whittaker, over the weekend you had russian defense minister, saturday showing go in bellows, meeting his opposite number, and just few days before that you had unnamed, the russian generals arriving in minsk as well for various meetings, is russia planning an escalation of the war in ukraine with bella bruce's help, the visits fresh and general some officers our usual thing since the question that

came to power. but when we're has started older deals that are signed became secret . and we don't really know how much dependence on my children to remain in the hands of her location. and so there were some people we believe that every visit they decide on given was here in utah, those sector of military conflicts under control of russia. there you go and listen to music is also important because it happened just of this, of mr. mckee, the foreign minister, which was very close to lucas and, and it was perceived by bill to some officials as a reminder, who is in charge. so go to some officials or some officers are afraid of moscow. i do want to talk about the death of foreign mr. mckay, but 1st i'd like to talk about what these written by russian generals mean. you have, for instance, described as

a very dangerous development reports of russian miss. i was including hypersonic missiles and 5 to just to just make 30 ones being stationed in bellows. what is the information you have? is russia planning large scale ad assaults and ukrainian infrastructure from bella? ros. the last me, silas shrugged as we had missed was on november 6th from bill. it was very direct, so it needs a ready for 2 months. there were no st strikes from from brothers, but to the same time i'm more than $10000.00 russian soldiers to ride together and they're deployed in different parts of our country. they're passing military training. along with our troops, we see vehicles. we see as some banks we see some the region so fair and systems arriving to bellows. it doesn't seem they're brilliant at docking a group of army on billers editor. it seems they are, bring the army in order to control the situation in billers,

in order to fix that russian occupational builders. we really believe that russia can use bella was as a consolation prize, in case if you will lose the war in ukraine, or you wanted the berlin ocean troops might be thrown into the fight and ukraine. it's still not next 3 months. right now, russia doesn't have a capacitor now or more vehicles from billers, predatory army so will not be able to conduct such reparation if the strong backup primarily technical back up from russia also been shown soldiers, they don't have morale that they don't see korean to enemy in society, there is a consensus that we don't support this for the building. our mission not participate also sales. it also understands that if he sent out

the re strips, the crane, they can defect. they can turn arms against him. they will be split off really. there will be no way for protest, and he's really afraid of sending mail central still to ukraine because it will, it can cost him the power. so you're confident that with russia is back to the wall in ukraine, essentially. losing the fight, falling behind on the battlefield. as a start and by the needle, 2nd general says that president putin is not pressured. i pressuring, alexander lucas shank to commit his troops into battle, your confidence that i think they are playing the role. it's the performance a question case, playing the independent leader who supports russia and who wants to stay exclusive, alive or put in. because this is the only way to stay in power to have guarantees that we can. it will not come to murder him, but also for a question which in this is very,

very important right now in order to control the internal domestic situation. to say that term, which is what pressure asian question guess? i think let's, let's imagine that this is the leash and lucas. and there are condo, leash and puts in this trying to shorten this leash so much as possible. will not allow lucas and cut to not leave him a space at toll. this is the goal of putting to create that up at the regime satellite regime, which will be doing 100 percent of everything the capital moscow will want from him . so you had said in november that a 14 was not interested in sending beltran troops to ukraine. you stand by that? yes, yes, i think it will create more problems than the benefits. it's not experience for me . i was in the army, i was serving the minister on the border with degree. it was 10 years ago,

but they know what, what, what is it? what christian came to nest in cage would be the in the secret services that, that they have to protect himself up can never investor than belittle some army. when belittle shantel the received mobilization coals, there will be huge progress resistance because the site doesn't support this war. at all, and the look a sham, probably bolt, which in about this also push and use the lage him to that bush him. if i will send my troops, then the all on the 20 and let you know, will attack me because you see they are preparing they escalade, they deploy more troops on the border. so he use this as reasoning in order to last 10 sam tropes, so they play this performance. everyone is happy, they create their pressure. they create the pressure on the ukraine. austin pressure that this might happen and i think they're, they're even there. the threat of sending our troops to destruct and be courses of

the cranium and help us understand, alexander lucas shank, or the current leader of bellows. would he rather be on the side of president voting, or would he rather be with the west, for instance? he will be with the weekend because within this mentally close to him, location pays the soviet man or he is very western democracy, something that goes against his principles against his, for nature. he chose russia and which in, instead of dilution people in 2020, could agree on dialogue with the professors 3 years ago. but instead he called for putting help to suppress this protest. and right now was we should the tipping point of this pro, ration using an adult? no question. now in october, alexander location court told b. b, nbc, i'm sorry,

in an interview that no one was closer to president as a signal to the west that he was ready to mediate with president 14, between president putin and the west. to curtail his dependence on russia. lucretia to just want to stay relevant to be important, isn't all this like alpha alpha man. he wants to be the source neighbor where this is why he was so happy when the 1st means negotiations took place in 2014 and the host of them wants to be the big player. it wants to be in the 1st leak and also all the statements about his closure. closeness to, to put him about nuclear weapons in dealers in order to raise the price to raise the horse of himself. but usually just the blossom he, he's a very poor, old, weak,

insecure man. you talked about the death of letting me my k, bella was a foreign minister, a close, confident of alexander lucas. shank oak. did russia have anything to do with my case? death? possible. everything is possible right now. we come to full day new over the versions. we still didn't see the obligation of the document about the decimal, my kid with the ominous restrictions from the past. but still there is no official information. also there they statement from about the death of my case here many years after the fact was revealed, it means there is something behind it. i wish you the bush officials are very reverend they. they feel that so they can be the next. and they think this bass, these could be, could be just just death, but also can be part of the bigger events,

bigger than then we were still country you talked of russian troops in ballard, was there to court control. the situation is bella bruce, a hostage of russia. billers has taken hostage of russia and off putting together least 2 criminals. they just use better territory in order to, to attack ukraine to revising prior, and not just the dilution people are taken hostage. let's not forget that there are thousands of people in jail and it's a 1000 where forced to leave the country in 2021. when chris down took place against the little send them a great the courses. it was a preparation for ashley one against the cream. you talked about the pro democracy movement. let's talk about that last week. opposition leader. mario co, less nichol ended up in intensive care for. she was transferred to hospital from her prison cell. she was perhaps one of the last major opposition figures left inside barrows. would you say her fate is

a big blow to the opposition movement inside bellows? a muddy a's, a beacon spiration for many pollutions, especially the russian women. she became a symbol of resistance. as she was selenium they so massive, huge for alice in august and september of 2020. and right now when we found out he's and maintenance of care unit, it was the big shock total loss. but was it a big blow? of course it was a big shock, wasn't a big blow, but the opposition movement. oh, yes it was. it was, it was a blow. it was a blow, but also really have to investigate what happens to her. because just before i ended up ended up in the hospital, she was put in the punishment. so this is the cage of be style. torture cells. people are without fresh air. people are without communication,

they could be beeping there and something, something happened wrong to her. perhaps there was an order from lucas shanker personally to punish her. doesn't oldish show that the opposition movement inside bellows has been silenced. no, it's not silence. they change the form of resistance. there are many parties, i'm groups, they work in every region of the country. most of them participated in stop in the russian train. they come back some time on the railway in march and april this year . there are now thousands of people, members of the cyber partners, i'm groups. there are a license state infrastructure and a few weeks ago they hacked them russian oversight, committee, middle school, next, or league, the data to journalist. and there are many activists who pull together tional, ukrainian flex all over the country. i will show some as disobedience campaign, not all over the counter, but in big city this primarily when the worker,

so the big factor is refused to do their job. for example, let's take that, let's take that at face value, but doesn't, hasn't that invited a greater correct down against them from alexander lucas ankle is indeed indeed receive right now. that oppression some bigger than in 2020, every day from 10 to 20 people are being detained and people want just the same, their torture. they're harshly beaten. more active is dying treason, and this is shock a lot and to be called on international. come, you need to, to react, we call on the un, i to take her urgent measures. let's talk about a number of the berlin ocean human rights grow. the ash nar claims as many as 5000 people odd in the prism due to political reasons. they are not classified officially as political prisoners, but they are in prison because of their political activism. the united nations is hundreds of thousands of bella russians are leaving the country and going to neighboring countries. my question to you, therefore it is who is left in the country to carry out an opposition against

alexander lucas ankle bill. it says, man 1000000 people or country sold the protests to more than 1000000.5 participants. so even if, let's say a few $100000.00 in the contra, still become a 1000000 to resist. also, there is a big disappointment. be willing to change the situation and to prevent others from participating in this war. so i think people who participate in the resistance right now, they did not participate in the 2020 their new people who reacted on the fact of the war. and they resist right now. they're on the front line and they go out and they protest, despite all the better you are based outside the videos as an opposition. how effective are you?

how many people, for instance, has your movement been able to release from prison? we are in daily patch with the little sham groups are on the ground to with local communities. we meet every blockers journalist who strapped and sprinted, or some easy leaf latch, put in their main mailboxes and our savannah channels leader of the little who, who, who on elections. she created the matrix conditional cabinet, which is like government in exile and which, you know, we know all that, you know, all that mr via cover. then how does that helping activists inside bella roof. you admitted earlier that they keep getting thrown into prison and that cracked on has only increased in 2020. so how is your work outside helping them inside investors? so we pass assistance. we tried to pass equipment where possible we conduct information campaigns to come to ration and location because propaganda,

i don't think something's far, be a little chance to fight. we tried to keep the morale that i had to build connection between different groups, different parties and groups. within the country, and we can log before more international support for be a little shan scores, field fight and in the country. is it not a failure of your opposition movement that after 2020, at that time and then a massive st protest? and it seemed that the game was up for alexander, lucre shinkel. he has been able to hold on and continues to govern bellows. is that not a failure? ok, opposition? movement. not yet. as we see there. correct? down in 2020 was depreciation for the war location for building for life without him. it's the weekend who provided him with money with soldiers, with the resources back in 2020 and right now the question k, spain is that back to approach?

and it's not the feeling about the situation became much more complex. now we are part of the bigger original jo political crisis. now we are fight more just for democracy for democratic elections. but we are fighting for the very existence of bella, state hall. and in order to get the letters free and independent, we need the 3 of the great set line african sky, your boss to and to whom you provide political advice, emerged from the 2020 election and particularly the protest, the mouse st protest that happened after that she presents herself as the leader of the bella lucian, opposition is she i think she's a national leader ability president elect one elections that didn't take her office because of concussion. can put him issue the leader of the benediction. opposition . i think she's a durability nation because look sham. praise and opposition. it was more than 70

percent of the typical or the present. so she does not lead a united benediction opposition. she lives in the united democratic versus exactly. she united all the major groups, traditional political parties, and the new groups that appear in 2020. and of course there are different. they do all the different use among different politicians. but she's absolutely, we unify and figure to, to all of the will. she delivers credible credit. let's see how unifying that is because an opinion followed by telegram baseball stuff. not rodney or pross among opposition minded bella. lucian's found that the collie, no school regiment of belushi volunteers fighting in ukraine, was 5 times more popular among bell at oceans. than mrs. atlanta to kind of sky. clearly, she's not a leader of a united opposition issue. this is the oldest. they're just the

mom activists of this specific group. i'm calling oscar regimented just a group of made into years bite in the ukraine. so listen, compare, you know, political leadership and, and the fighters and the, let's not forget to most participated in elections in one election, multiple of servers, surveys, polls or international him to prove that she won elections. she received 2 or 3000000 the vote. so the communist regiment is irrelevant as an opposition group. in oscar regiment is the part of the democratic and independence movement. they are fighters in ukraine. they are fighting for liberation of ukraine and they, are they disorder from huge respect from we school support their, if they what you say, they are popular they are not popular is politicians therefore are soldiers because they sacrifice me a life a notice to,

to save you crane because they understand that when ukraine we are, we as well. so they are not seen as a part of the opposition than now they are fighters and over the summer divide and petitions and fighters and military volunteers are in ukraine in the army. of course they are, they are playing very important role. and 1st of all, they see they preserve the group name of the school where seem by many ukrainians as aggressions. i'm calling those key regimen. they prove that not all believe him or like lou cushion for the regime and people are 2 different things. right. let's talk about minutes to kind of skype. you keep saying in this, in, through the tree, the national leader of bella rules and she has keeps calling us out the national leader of bellows, but who accept for lithuania, agrees to call her that almost every country she comes. she smirks on the presidential level in the parliament. she sold his address or madam president,

today, justin was, there is no, there is no, but there is no official recognition of her as the leader of bella rose. or there is the fact recognition. there is the level protocol which are defined as far as that kind of state. and there is no, it was a year, some of this years we don't to, we didn't go into this game or legal recognition, but it's more than just the game, isn't it? because alexander nutrition goes, regime continues to have diplomatic relations with a lot of countries, particularly those in asia and africa. for instance, there, alexander lucas shan't go counts as leader of bellows and not music and sky. less sure, that's true. and this is, this is the problem for us because police nation, them, they come to the united nations general assembly. and they vote for very all, from the support of proposals. lucretia called russian the in the show. this is why

we are trying to reach out the countries outside of the european union. we read the rich outlet in america. we have some, some relation there. we reached out africa stage as well, but a lot of work her to be done. but the most important in terms of the economy in terms of trade and political relationship or horses. so the european union, one percent is not recognized for the leader. and now we are asking medical in the recommendation team as them as the work criminal. now mr. scott is also sought to find the common cause with ukrainians. we began this interview talking about the ukraine. wanted to talk about the you can, will she have fed and i caught, they cannot be a free bellows without a free ukraine. does ukraine see it in the same way as well? yes, i think the ukraine says, but a little bit, a little bit different. they see dealers as the guarantee of security of safety

because of location, space and power. there will be calls from threat to ukraine. like it happened in february, february, this year, lucretia and the problem is that they will not be attacked from billers territory. and suddenly this attack happened and russian things, some most the reached kia from, from relatives, ukraine. understand the importance of having a good relationship with some people. we have 1000 kilometers comparable order. and right now we are trying to build this relationship. again. we're trying to coordinate our activities and to work to connect with some, resist him, a ration of supply and forces situation and build some grain are different, but we find the same enemy. one final question, she hasn't yet been able to meet president the landscape. when is that going to happen? yes, she met her officially on the informally to i'm a public events. it will happen when they will be willing cranium. but she's

very good relationship with the whole now the ukrainian parliament we had with relationship with the minister of foreign affairs, but we understand why ukrainian dumped me fur. they don't want to provoke cushion. is it also because they do not trust her? no, i think because there was a clear crime of lucas shown here for me to come oscar location for can escalate the conflict against the crane or even introduced troops. so for ukrainians, for now the most important to minimize the risks when the ukraine recognized a national leader of and i was efficiently i think if her, if, if luca introduces her troops notice troops to, to ukraine, this process will be speeded up. and then ukraine can recognize most can meet her, but right now they are very cautious. they don't want to get to play with fire.

it's been a pleasure talking to you. we have to leave it there. thank you so much for joining us today. franak via taca. ah with

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