this is america, this last season known to godaddy. we also condense, sept. okay. the still nanda. donation bank city. then find out about rubinez story in some likely reliable news for migraines. wherever they may be bellowed also supported russia since the start of the war in ukraine. it's provided weapons, military bases, and logistical support. but is that support set to escalate into something more active in the literature cited? there is a consensus that are we don't support this war, that bill of our mission not participate. and it also fails. also understands that if he sent out the restrict the crane, they can defect. they can turn arms against him. that's from my guess, debate from mark we are ciocca is chief political advisor, to bela lucian,

opposition, leader for atlanta. the kind of sky up. she claims to be the national leader of bella luce. but how legitimate is her claim? and how successful has her opposition been to alexander luke or franco's regime? product? we are charcoal. welcome to conflict on. oh, mr. whitaker, over the weekend, you had russian defense minister, saturday, sure ago, in bellows meeting, his opposite number, and just few days before that, you had a name to rush should general, deriving in minsk as well for various meetings. is russia planning an escalation of the war in ukraine with bella bruce's help? the visits fresh and general some officers our usual thing since the question that came to power. but when were, has started in all the deals that are signed became secret. and we don't really know how much dependence on my children to remain in the hands of her location. and

so there were some people we believe that every visit they decide on given was here in utah, those sector of military complex, under control of russia. there you go and listen to music is also important because it happened just awful of this, of mr. mckee, the foreign minister, which posts very close to lucas and, and it was perceived by bill to some officials as a reminder, who is in charge. so go to some officials or some officers are afraid of moscow. i do want to talk about the death of foreign mr. mckay, but 1st i'd like to talk about what these written by russian generals mean. you have, for instance, described as a very dangerous development reports of russian miss. i was including hypersonic missiles and 5 to just to just make 30 ones being stationed in bellows. what is the information you have? is russia planning large scale ad assaults and ukrainian infrastructure from bella? ros. the last, me sales shrugged. as we have witnessed,

was on november 6th from bill. it was very direct, so it means a rated for 2 months. there were in most strikes from from betters. but to the same time i more than 10000, the russian soldiers arrived to gather some there and deployed in different parts of our country. there. awesome military training. along with our troops, we see vehicles. we see as some banks, we see some divisions. so fire defense systems arrive in the bellows. it doesn't seem there branan attacking a group of army on billers territory. it seems there bring the army in order to control the situation in billers in order to fix their ration occupational villers a. we really believe that russia can use relatives as a consolation prize, in case if you will lose the war in ukraine. are you? what is the bella lucian troops might be thrown into the fight in ukraine. it's

still not next to 3 months. right now, russia doesn't have a capacitor now or newer vehicles from dollars for tory army. so we'll look be able to conduct a generation if the strong backup primarily technical back up from russia also, belittle shall soldiers. they don't have morale that they don't see cranium to enemy in society. there is a consensus that we don't support this for the building. our mission not participate, but also sales. it also understands that if he sent out the strips to crane, they can defect, they can turn arms against him. there will be split. hopefully, there will be no way for protest. and he's really afraid of sending mail central

still to ukraine because his bow it gonna cost him the power. so you're confident that with russia, it's back to the wall in ukraine, essentially. losing the fight, falling behind on the battlefield as a insult. and by the needle, 2nd general says that president putin is not pressured. i pressuring alexander lucas shanker to commit his troops into battle, your confidence that i think they're playing the role. it's the performance a question case, playing the independent leader who supports russia. and she wants to stay exclusive alive or put in. because this is the only way to stay in power to have guarantees that we can, that will not come to murder him. but also for a question, which in this is very, very important right now in order to control the internal domestic situation. to say that her own ocean is with pressure asian bush. and i think let's, let's imagine that this is the leash and lucas champagne. there are on the leash

and puts in this trying to shorten this leash so much as possible to not allow lucas shenker to not leave him a space at all. this is the goal of put in to create that up at the regime. ventilate resume, which will be doing 100 percent off over him the capital moscow will want from him . so you had said in november that a 14 was not interested in sending bell at ocean troops to ukraine. you stand by that? yes, yes, i think it will create more problems than the benefits. it's not experience for me . i was in the army, i was serving and minister on the border with decree. it was 10 years ago, but they know what, what, what is it location came in cage would be the in the secret services that, that they have to protect himself but can never invest in better some army. when belittle shampoo the received mobile is ation coals. there will be

a huge protest which resistance, because society doesn't support this war at all. and the look a shame, probably bolt, which in about this also push and use the lage him to that bush, him, if i will send my troops, then the all uncle 20. and let me i will attack me because you see they are preparing the escalade. they deploy more troops on the border. so he use this as the reason him, in order to not send out the sam tropes. so they play this performance. everyone is happy, they create their pressure. they create the pressure on the ukraine constant pressure that this might happen. and i think that even the threat of sending our troops to discharge and be courses of the cranium and help us understand alexander lucas shank, of the current leader of bellows. would he rather be on the side of president fulton, or would you rather be with the west, for instance,

he will be with the weekend because within this mentally close to him, location pays the soviet man, or he is very anti western democracy, something that goes against these principles against his, for nature are he chose russia and cochin instead of dilution. people in 2020 could agree on dialogue with the professors 3 years ago. but instead he called for pigeons helped to suppress this protest. and right now we, we should the tipping point of this pro, ration using an adult. no question. now in october, alexander location court told b. b, nbc, i'm sorry, in an interview that no one was closer to president of a signal to the west that he was ready to mediate with president brought in between president putin and the west to curtail his dependence on russia. what questions he

just want to stay relevant to be important isn't all this like alpha alpha man, he wants to be the source neighbor where this is why he was so happy when the 1st means negotiations took place in 2014 and the host of them wants to be the big player, it wants to be in the 1st leak. and also all the statements about his closure. closeness to, to put him about nuclear weapons in dealers in order to raise the price to raise the horse of himself. but usually just the blossom he, he's a very poor, old, weak, insecure man. you talked about the death of letting me my k, bella was foreign minister, a close, confident of alexander lucas shank over. did russia have anything to do with my case death?

possible. everything is possible right now. we come to day over the versions. we still didn't see the obligation of the document about the death of my case with the ominous restrictions from the past. but still there is no official information. also there they are basement from lucas. and about the death of my case, peered many years after the fact was revealed, it means there is something behind wish in the bush and officials have very read them. they, they feel that they can be the next. and they think this bass is, could be, could be just just death, but also can be part of the bigger events, bigger than then we were still counting. you talked of russian troops in ballard, was there to court control. the situation. is bella luce, a hostage of russia, biller was taken hostage prussia, and of putting together least 2 criminals. they just use better territory in order

to, to attack ukraine, to revising prior, and not just the same people are taken hostage. let's not forget that there are thousands of people in jail and it's a 1000 where forced to leave the country in 2021. when chris down took place against the little send them great courses. it was a preparation or actually war against the cream. you talked about the pro democracy movement. let's talk about that last week. opposition leader, maria less. nichols ended up in intensive care, but she was transferred to hospital from her prison cell. she was perhaps one of the last major opposition figures left inside barrows. would you say her fate is a big blow to the opposition movement inside bellows? a muddy a's, a beak inspiration for many pollutions, especially blue santa women. she became a symbol of resistance as she was selenium. the so massive,

huge for alice in august and september of 2020. and right now when we found out he's and maintenance of care unit, it was the big truck total loss. but was it a big blow? of course it was a big shock. was it a big blow for the opposition movement? oh, yes it was. it was, it was a blow. it was a blow, but also really have to investigate what happens to her. because just before i ended up ended up in the hospital, she was put in the punishment. so this is the cage be styled torture cells. people are without fresh air. people are without communication, they could be beaten there. and something, something happened wrong to her. perhaps there was an order from lucas shanker personally to punish her. doesn't oldish show that the opposition movement inside villalobos has been silenced. no,

it's no problems to change the form of resistance. there are many parties and groups they work in every region of the country. most of them participated and stop in the rush and train. they come back to sabotage on the railway scene march and april. this year there are thousands of people, members of the cyber partners are groups. they paralyze and state infrastructure and few weeks ago the heck to the russian. oversized committee at oscar absorb league of the data to journalist, and there are many activists put together, shall or ukrainian, flexible, where the country will show some as this will be the campaign, not all over the country, but in big city. this primarily, when the workers of the big factor is refused to their job. for example, let's take that, let's take that face value but doesn't, hasn't that invited a greater correct down against them from alexander lucas and go it is indeed to do to receive right now that impressions some bigger than in 2020 every day from 10 to

20 people are being detained and people not just the same, their torture. they are harshly beaten. more active is dying prism, and this is shock a lot and we call one international community to react recall and the u. m. i to take urgent measures. let's talk about a number. the better should human rights group. the ash claims as many as 5000 people are in the prison due to political reasons. they are not classified officially as political prisoners, but they are in prison because of their political activism. the united nation stays hundreds of thousands of ballot oceans are leaving the country and going to neighboring countries. my question to you, therefore it is who is left in the country to carry out an opposition against alexander lucas shall go. bill it says man 1000000 people, buck country sold protests to more than 1000000.5

participants. so even if we're, let's say, a few $100000.00 in the countries to become a 1000000 to resist. also, there is a big disappointment. be willing to change the situation and to prevent that from participating in this war. so i think people who participate in the resistance right now, they did not participate in the 2020 their new people who reacted on the fact of the war and they resist. right. now they're on the front plan and they go out and they protest, despite all the better you are based outside of that was as an opposition. how effective are you? how many people, for instance, has your movement been able to release from prison? we are in daily patch with belittle sham groups are on the ground to with local communities. we will meet with blockers. little journalists who described in oldest

printed, or some these li, flat, put in their main mailboxes that are spanish channels leader of who, who, who want elections. she created the matrix conditional cabinet, which is like government in exile and which we know we know all, you know, all that mr via car. but then how does that helping active? it's inside beller room. you admitted earlier that they keep getting thrown into prison and that cracked on has only increased in 2020. so how is your work outside helping them inside in bellows? so we pass assistance. we tried to pass equipment where possible we conduct information campaigns to come to rational location. us propaganda readily inspire, belittle chance for we try to keep the morale high to build connection between different groups, different parties on groups within the country. and we can log before more

international support for be a little show score, still fight in the country. is it not a failure of your opposition movement that after 2020, at that time and a massive st protest. and it seemed that the game was up for alexander, lucre shinkel. he has been able to hold on and continues to govern bellows. is that not a failure? ok, our position movement not yet as we see there. correct. on in 2020 was depreciation called the war aggression wouldn't survive without which him . it's put in who provided him with money with soldiers, with the resources back in 2020. and right now the question k, spain is that back to approach and it's not the same about the situation. became much more complex. now we are part of the bigger regional jo political crisis. now we are fight more just for democracy or democratic elections, but we are fighting for the very existence of states hold. and in order to get the

letters free and independent, we need the theory of the great federal. i'm african sky, your boss to and to whom you provide political advice, emerged from the 2020 election and particularly the protest, the mouse st protest that happened after that she presents herself as the leader of the bell. russian opposition is she i think she's a national leader ability president elect one elections but didn't take her office because the question can question, is she the leader of the validation opposition? i think she's a durability nation because look at some crazy and opposition. it was more than 70 percent of roles typical or the present for she does not lead a united beneficial position. she lives in the united, the more creative versus exactly she united all the major groups, traditional political parties and the new groups that appear in 2020 and of course

there are different they do all legit. the front of use among different politicians, but she's absolutely, are we unify in figure to, to all of the will she delivers. trim democrats. let's see. how unifying that is because an opinion followed by telegram baseball stuff. not rodney operas among opposition minded bella. lucian's found that the colonoscopy regiment of bella lucian volunteers fighting in ukraine was 5 times more popular among bell at oceans than mrs. atlanta to kind of sky. clearly, she's not a leader of a united opposition issue. this is the oldest, they're just the mom activists of this specific group. i'm calling oscar regimented just a group of me able in years i and the ukraine. so listen, compare, you know, political leadership and, and the fighters and the,

let's not forget the trauma to most care participated in elections. in one election, multiple observers surveys polls or international to prove that she one elections. she received 2 or 3000000 the vote. so the communist regiment is irrelevant as an opposition group. and in those care regiment is the part of the democratic and independence movement. they are fighters in the ukraine. they are fighting for liberation of ukraine and they are, they deserve a huge respect from we all support the recently what you say they are popular. they are not popular as politicians, therefore, are soldiers because they sacrifice me a life. a notice to, to save ukraine, because they understand that when ukraine we are, we as well. so they are not seen as a part of the opposition then. now the fighters and all that sort of divide and politicians from the fighters and military volunteers who are in the cranium army,

they preserve the group name of options were seen by many ukrainians as aggressions . i'm kind of most key regimen. they prove that not old. there are like lucas and the regime and people are 2 different things. right. let's talk about minute, 2nd, sky. you keep saying in this, in, through the trees, the national leader of bella rules and she has, keeps calling us out the national leader of bellows, but who accept for lithuania, agrees to call her that almost from every country she comes. she smirks on the presidential level in the parliament. she sold his address. madam president, today just in the bottom there is no, there is no, but there is no official recognition of her as the leader of bemrose. or there is the fact recognition. there is the level protocol which are defined as far as that kind of state. and there is no years from this years we

don't to, we didn't go into this game or legal recognition, but it's more than just the game, isn't it? because alexander location was, regime continues to have diplomatic relations with a lot of countries, particularly those in asia and africa. for instance, there, alexander lucas shan't go counts as leader of bellows and not music taken us less. sure, that's true. and this is, this is the problem for us because this nation, them, they come to the united nations general assembly. and they vote for very all, from the supports of proposal, so called russian the end, the show. this is why we are trying to reach out to the countries outside of the european union that we already reached out latin america. we have some, some relation there will be a reached out our car services page as well. but the local for worker to be done and the most important in terms of the economy in terms of trade and political

relationship or courses. so the european union, what percentage not recognized for the leader? and now we are asking medical in the ritual imagined team as them as the work criminal. now mr. scott is also sought to find the common cause with ukrainians. we began this into talking about the ukraine wall. let's talk about you can, will she have fed and i caught that cannot be a free bellows without a free ukraine. does ukraine see it in the same way as well? yes, i think the ukraine says, but a little bit different. they see dealers as the guarantee of security of safety because of location for space and power. there will be, comes from the threat to ukraine like it happened in february, february, this year. luca, sure, the problem is that they will not be attacked from bella territory, and suddenly this attack happened and rush, thanks most the reached key of from, from but it was ukraine understands the importance of having a good relationship with people. we have 1000 kilometers common order. and right

now we are trying to build this relationship again. we're trying to coordinate our activities and go to work to connect with some, resist him rational supply and forces situation and build some grain are different . but we find the same enemy. one final question. sure. chicken hasn't yet been able to meet president landscape when is that going to happen? yes, she didn't met her officially on the informally until i'm a public events. it will happen when they will be willing cranium. but she's very good relationship with that. hold that you bring them parliament. we have which relationship with the minister of foreign affairs, but we understand by ukrainians, dumped me fur. they don't want to provoke cushion. is it also because they do not trust her? no, i think because there was

a clear sign of lucretia and key for me to come. most care locations are, can escalate the conflict against the crane or even introduce troops. so for ukrainians, for the most important to minimize the risks when the ukraine recognize, had a national leader of and i was officially i think it her if, if lucas introduced her troops, letters troops to you, craig, this process will be speeded up and then ukraine can recognize most can meet her, but right now they're very cautious. they don't want to get to play with fire. it's been a pleasure talking to you will have to leave it there. thank you so much for joining us today for not via talk with

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