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tv   Conflict Zone  Deutsche Welle  February 2, 2023 4:30am-5:00am CET

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i only work there is holiday destinations drowning in plastic weiss, we, we, wine, look at the cars every year of the exports over $1000000.00 tons of plastic with there. another way. after all, the environment isn't to recyclable. make up your own mind. d. w. made for mines with some of the worst violence in years is broken out between israelis and palestinians at its height last week, a palestinian attack outside of synagogue left 7 people dead and provoked widespread condemnation including from the arab world. a day earlier israeli forces had rated the janine refugee camp and the occupied west bank. 10 people died. most
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of them reported to be government on a visit to israel, us secretary of state exams, and the blinking code on both sides to come tensions and set a 2 state solution was the only way and the conflict. my guess this week is the head of the palestinian mission to the u. k. what times on lot does he believe that's possible? we see no approach to achieve that, but that's the palestinian leadership, have the authority among its own people to negotiate with israel and unite the different factions. why the never ending allegations of brutality and corruption. it's rags. the time for a new leader who can earn the trust of his people and the outside world. ah, yeah. welcome to communism. thank you. where is all this violence leading? all this violence is absolutely leading to one fact that until a new palestinian generation is born free of occupation colonization. and the part
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time no matter how more is really brutal, it will be more brutality, more pressure, no matter international complicity. nothing would change until that is achieved. what can stop it this violent killing? now this current phase of violence, what can stop one of the main reasons why people are choosing the lives because for many years we have been talking about 2 side. does him, for many years, we have been talking about negotiations and peace processes for many as we have drawn the wrong parallels between the occupied and occupier of the colonizer the colonizer for many as we receive us 6 of states and presidents mediators, without addressing the real issues for many years, we are hearing the statements that the us and europe and the u. k. is with the 2 state solution. now the secretary blinking calls for equal measures of freedom of opportunity, of dignity and security field calling for the new state solutions venue has. what
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is your response to that without any support? we see no approach to achieve that. where's your place where you're under? usually that and when you're a punch or some kind of an honest indian people have been subjected to a 100 years since the balfour declaration, promising our land without consulting us. until today we are living on our land. we are resilient and resisting all the legalities and we are growing. we have our universities and professors and poems and where are we? we have would stop all the pressure and we are there to defend our rights. and our rights now are enshrined and international consensus. from the time of the beginning of zionism, one started to say that there are, there is no such thing as palestinian people to do today. were you have in the united edition, the tag of the state of palestine like we have gone back with the present, then we'll come back process tressles mr. summer, the palestinian attack last friday outside the synagogue on the outskirts of jerusalem. promote outrage around the world, including including among many arab countries. in the past,
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the palestinian authority is condemned a tax on unarmed civilians. why not this to? let's talk about that. why not this time? let's talk about that. ok, every human loss is a tragedy. and you know very well to and fro the earth that our strategy has been a non violent, popular resistance reverting to international tradition system and international institutions. the saw strategy. but let's talk about so what are you saying that it's out of control the violence. let's talk about the annual time is out of control let's, let's talk about that. no. the, the sole responsibility of that incident that you talk about is on israel's government. the well doesn't seem as that wasn't said beverly. i don't see that. so that's why i accept your invitation to come and to tell the world the truth as it is. the truth is, is really government since illegally. it's a war crime, it's citizens to illegal saturn was never york who is an illegal settlement in the occupied east. jerusalem, the former responsibility of what happened,
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lie squarely on the government that since these civilians to commit acts of war crimes and illegal. okay, you keep saying, you do not saying why you keep saying it's their responsibility for the last 10 months. they've been plenty of warnings and found a worsening security center. okay. can i, can i, can i just with, can i finish the question by november the un sent the conflict was reaching boiling point. did no one take any notice how hard did the palestinian authority try to stop this particular phase of via the ha ha, the heart of this. what did they do until they do one major thing is to be so religious about international law is to be so principal about international law and the use of international legal system. we reverted this to the international criminal court because we want to establish accountability. and we only last month asked for an advisory opinion of the international court of justice. that's the highest international legal system to create accountability because it is the lack
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of accountability that has gotten us to where we are today. with this most formright fanatics of government in his own guess what them. and this is the real discussion who blocks us from going to these international tradition organs. it's the united states vote against us. it's the united you wayne county way. you went and you and you went anyway, we'll keep our anyway. but you know, when international rules and law as distant when it comes and applied to your friend. and there is the west where it has been feeling for all these years. when it comes to ezra and, and compare that to ukraine, by the way, when it comes to israel, israel is always shielded by the west. shielded by the u. s. and the okay, from our on something, mr. mrs. accountability, this is the mathematical exam lot. there haven't been any meaningful peace talks for almost 10 years. how do you emerge from this? an ending cycle of blame and violence. jewish israelis think they are the exclusive
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victims in this conflict. palestinians say they're the victims. you're a diplomat. how can you help move the discussion on from this point me principal, by a stop wasting time by really addressing the real suffering of the people. our people has been under aggression for a 100 years started in the concrete terms on a new president, mahmoud abbas said last year. he had no choice but to deal with benjamin netanyahu . is that still the case? and if so, what kind of dealings is he going to have with mr. newton or talk concrete con class can gate mr. nathan here? who will not be with us? we have no part, not in this early side, mister netanyahu. that's what he says. no, no, that's what he does. also, mister natalia has formed the government. the 1st sentence of the agreement of the coalition only a few weeks ago is that this government will commit to the land of israel from whatever for the sea, and the will accelerate the colonization occupied westbank. here you have it right in front of everybody hitting you in the face of the whole world. this government
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does not only not commit to the 2 state solution, but will actively seek to destroy it to dismantle a water netanyahu. is that right? you dismissed him a long time ago. in the past you said he was someone who was very extreme in every sense. he said you are, you have a dream. and that dream is that we palestinians vanished and simply ceased to exist . this is what you say about my son. so you are you one on the ticket that he will detail the awful piece process, the really the whole 2 state solution. and he brags about that, and he is so happy saying every morning and every evening that he has devastated the international consensus about a toaster solution. so the was home on what grounds? on what grounds. this is exactly how we started this discussion. we need to focus on the real issues, and the real issues is the lack of accountability that will bring and different leaders. and as are, there's really people feel a sense of impunity and no consequences, no cost associated with all these illegalities. and therefore,
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and therefore they will use all grossing these fanatics like been via and smoking was i'm not to the americans. the real deal is the 2 state solution. no question. moving forward on that. absolutely not in your eyes. of course, this is our, our, our platform. since 1988, we have fully recognized the 2 state solution allied our since completely with international resolutions and know you've been recognized the state of israel on the 1960 people. your people aren't supporting it any last week. palestinian center for policy and research showed 2 thirds of palestinians are against it. as well as 53 percent of his railways hasn't got to charge them up against us because they don't want to see the military occupation ending that because $967.00. thank finish . well, what i'll do another guess is because they don't want the freedom and independence and liberty and that authority with each of them as the capital of punish that. not against this because they don't want to see refugees return to their properties and
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homes that are against that because they believe it's not possible. they are against it now because it's a protest bought to say that we see no international action in this direction. we soon we see no, is there any constituency pushing in that direction? and why should we endorse that? of course. that's the reaction to palestinians, ordinary palestinians, even listen and the more to to you to the leaders. in fact, the new militant groups in the west bank no longer listen to the authority. the novelist brigade, the 2 best brigade, the lions den. they're all outside your control. when people are people they follow them guts. and you know, if you come we are we this of the palestinian side has been the only side committed to the also provisions for a long time. actually, it has to overstate its will come our commitment for a long time until only last week. you just have the security actually again,
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many times you've done the security code division was meant to stop the illegal it is was meant to stop the invasions and the raids was meant to provide provide protection, talk to our people, security coordination is meant to back role occupation, security coordination was meant to be a corner stone and building our st. it that is no longer holding. and that's why it stopped and it can only resume or be resume once it is part of liberation. not part of continuing the starter school as it has been using it and not only and the security sphere. in every sphere, these really mentality must change the palestinian national institutions or to achieve our national rights either to be subjected and unsub to the palestinian people. they need to understand that, let's talk about the palestinian national institutions hasn't, hasn't the palestinian authority itself become responsible for holding back progress last year that tony blair institute for global change want of what it called a deepening crisis in palestinian politics and a breakdown of the palestinian leadership that's lead the posting cause and it
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standing to go backwards. that's right, isn't it? the blue institute conceal whatever it's once they're not the only way they can say whatever they want. we have national institutions. we have the palestine liberation organization. the fighter present in a london, my office is the p a law representative officer. then i could tell them i headed the p a law office in washington, the world recognize the palestine liberation organization. as the umbrella organization, we have all palestinian political factions represented in that umbrella organization except hamas. there is a process of dialogue right now to include every one. but the p. a law remains to be the representative of the palestinian people. there is an internal elections and that we need to improve it. that is a huge room of improvement. we are locked saints and under the most adverse circumstances, no one should expect us to act like st. yet we need to deliver some sort of
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institutional setting and democracy that our people deserve and seek. you're talking about getting democracy. they haven't been election since 2006 and 74 percent of your p. want muffled a bus to go on your population. that most of your population hasn't even had the chance to vote at all. the palestinian authority is too scared to test itself and with election. so it's not through the parson authority. again, it's the p a law that runs the shore. the palestinian authority is an organ is a, is an offshoot of the po, yet we are, we have been one of the few in the region to conduct elections as you very well. remember we can, we conducted elections in 20052006. and when the results came out, it was here, london, and berlin and washington who actually completely boycotted the results and sent shock waves in our system and our ability to conduct our governance. we have issues . we want to convene elections by the way, the source of all of the messy husband elections, even yasser arafat. lithia,
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harper, who knew that he was the father of the nation, had to get the approval of his people and offered himself for elections in 1096. but we have issues, we cannot and will not convene elections according to that is really the definition of elections. elections should start in the occupied his johnson and we are free about your definition. we have a 17, i've got a president, our best was elected by his people. president, our boss was a founder of the national liberation movement. fatter, a fatter according to all bonds still is in the leading of the palestinian a political popularity. if you me, president, our boss is the head of the p, a law president, our boss is not just the church though, the president of the pension authority, it's very important to make that distinction. he has that capacity the legitimacy of all these institutions yet. yes, we need to offer the palestinian people the ability to convene elections and we
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need to for time when we need to sort out as was v to over is jocilan. we have 300000 palestinian jewels filaments. they have the absolute right to actually vote the cost of the vote and decide who the president and who the parliament is. but also we will not allow is especially in light of prompts, it legality, overcoat, magazine, listen, we will not allow it to pocket jewels. and then should we not convene elections in jerusalem and we need to make sure that garza the 2000000 besieged and gaza are fully included in that. and hopefully the answer to you and it must happen yesterday. so there is a process as julia is involved. egypt of course is a major player. but you are absolutely right. elections is over to you and we must convene it. how does i'm not sure i will form a top p l o leader said recently of the palestinian authority, the week of the system, the more it closes in on itself and the more oppressive it becomes, the future could be peaceful. she said that the longer it takes to see real change,
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the more probable violence becomes if you don't allow for peaceful democratic ways of transferring power, people will find other means to express themselves. that's a warning from a very senior and very much respected official pillow. she is, she'll young taking any notes and you leave with a fresh political monday would change the situation. people that she is and that there's your 100 isn't she is she was on the executive committee of the highest sponsoring and political structure. that is the piano and miss tells you we all of it. society is the freedom of expression, the different views. actually there are too much different views and people express that abuse, which is welcome. but 1 point, one point there are some, hannah is very genuine, wanting to make sure that our situations of democrats and we will live up to that. but there are some people who are misusing this to say the palestinians and brought it upon themselves. that because they are not united because they are mismanaged occupations and is continuing to. and the oppression is continually, i'm sorry,
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we are united as a people from us as the people where the people who are united. we have political differences between political actions, sees deliberations, but as you know, different play sees it in a completely opposite way. we all know engaging, but the people of palestine are united and i can get an engaging and getting, you know, getting exempt as of the people. unity from 2021 and on what happened. and the whole palestinian nation inside is what i said in the occupied territories in gaza outside you lighting in one voice. and the same thing repeated since last week when it's janine we are united people. how many of i heard this and how many times? is it proven to be untrue? i want to pick you up on something you said earlier. you talked about freedom of speech that despite 2 years of promising to improve your human rights records of violations continue, there is no political will to change. is that take torture?
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the un committee against torture said last august, it was concerned about consistent reports consistently. the persons in custody and both the west bank and gaza, subject to torture ill treatment. you shame to that? well, nobody should be subjected to torture. and we as a nation and are you ashamed of? and we, as a nation under oppression for all these years, should behave in a certain manner that respect human rights. but you don't, you don't one by what? again, we operate under very adverse circumstances. some people want us to behave in a certain manner and we shouldn't. but we need to remember, we need to remember democracy is incomplete under the boots of a military occupation because they decide if you are on elections in this. and if you do, then they will at rest, those who are running the elections and if they don't, that is then before they win, or before they run the artist them after. so you telling me the israelis responsible for you torturing your own people? and i'm telling you the situation over all cannot be measured or judge according to
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a standard that you apply on a normal situation. people should never be tortured anywhere, including in palestine that's, that's completely a rejected. but i want to revisit the whole idea of this whole palestinian behavior because there is a school of thought that wants to link or a birthright as in the right of self determination or behavior. no, sir, i want to say we should be here, but should we misbehave? we don't close our rights. we want to united unit goes out. if i thought that the hand hammers and everybody else out of it was, you know, the father of the nation. you so what these are you, can we stay with? no, no. can we stay with the press? did we will because the present is, is bad enough of course, but the past was about, did we achieve our rights? did we conclude that peace process when we are united? so this whole unit to thing is an internal palestinian matter that we need to sort it for our own priorities. it has nothing to do with our rights or the engagement with israelis or the international community. why do you keep promising year after
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year to do something about human rights and then nothing happens. of particular concern has been the case of the civic activist visit, but not who died in detention in 2021 after the arrested and apparently beaten and severely tortured by your hebron preventative security forces. why no accountability for that death, and why do the 13 people who were put on trial allow that on a 9 day holiday last year from detention? i got a lot of i got sort of a fall the i don't know where you get to what sort of revise i don't know what you get on for formation from that incident was absolutely regulator window rejected by the palestinian people. and there was, it happened, it happened and it was wrong that had happened. so that's why i got way off again, of course, of course. but then at least we got the all these officers to a court and they were invited, all of them accountability happen. but the question i want to be asked is how many it was really settlers about the palestinians of other that was one incident. one
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guy lost his life, regrettably, how many palestinians lost their lives over the last year or the last few years. 230 only in 2022. the highest says the on big on record in palestine. $35.00 says last month, only january 2023. some of them are above by israeli civilians who are very armed. how many israel have brought to justice? did they bring to justice? the people who burned atman, though upshar the you know, that the person who shot 29, worshippers, and, and colleen and hero in the ninety's 1993 battle goldstein is now worshipped in israel. more than $10000.00 visit him. you see there is a lot of focus on sport, artic isolated events in palestine, but there is a lack of focus on the systematic, chronic lack of accountability, lack of democracy, that the presence of apartheid. if you are, if i you were the discussion because there's other,
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if you were israeli officials sitting there, i would be asking you these questions. but i'm asking you about what the palestinians do because you want to represent the, which i understand you should do more answer. answer me this question. how hard is it to champion the cause of the palestinians around the world these days? it's, it's, it's, it's very inspiring. i feel so privileged. it is the honor of my life and i am so inspired. whatever i go, are you, lizzie, hopefully you will make progress. come see my heart. it's full of hope. a few see what they see every day. i leave you here and they go to the london school of economics where there are 3 major universities convening a talk for palestine. the london school, the u. c. l and kings come and see the students come and see the generations of the future. i'm sure you've seen what happened to london and 2021 on israel attacked alexa and the shifter a hand in gaza. there were, there were, there were tens of thousands. i did not expect to see that a roar of people. people are people everywhere more than 50 years of occupation. do
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you think you live to see a 2 state solution? what antony, blinking an independent palestinian state, living side by side with israel, do you think you'll live to see that? oh yes. oh yes. how. how. how will that about that, the, the spirit that the trajectory of things are absolutely in our side when israel was established, primarily it's beginning with this country. there was not even the cognition of our existence in the band for declaration. 67 words. it says, respecting the religious and civil minorities rights of the minorities. we were 3rd by balfour and the british authorities at the time, minorities with only 7 and religious rights. we have no national rights. why do you think things are going your way? you're not dying but huge numbers. they're dying for their cause and their battles . okay, no, no, no, that's not okay that dying because there is a military occupation that the shooting them and killing them. and you and i need to discuss how we stand out there every once you talk on killing of it, but not the only one that be gone. we would not recognize as
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a nation. look up us. you are talking to the policy and ambassador to the u. k that came after a 100 years of a generation after generation of resistance, our resilience and the revolution. and yes, our father, all that generation that brought us here to discuss with them. and also about the narrative. when it began, as one was the beacon of democracy for the was every one of your generation as they can part in our keyboards of israel, as i was celebrated everywhere to do as i started in the international media, it stallnicher and the new generations apiece, obese accords with the arabs. yes, yes, you've seen cut cut out on how god expressed the actual genuine absolute support and siding with the palestinian people and the rights governments can do with that . they could be attack on the synagogue or condemned the attack on the so a lot of people, what, what should we be the out? what, what data people have shown during the world cup is a, is, is an example of where the region is. now there are some transaction and politics,
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you know, that we have expressed our opinion that these accords did not serve the cause of peace. it broke away from dallas consensus, that normalization should be an incentive and an outcome for peace, not an entry for it. and what we want from has happened because since the signing of these records, things have become more horrific and more horrible. doubling of the settlement activities. all that happened in the last 2 years on the record, the highest number of constantine killed us examined, didn't tell us sublet. thank you very much. burton. thanks for being a complex. you're most welcome. ah ah
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