independent, oh, what is left of his vision? a guy, and he's the legacy in 30 minutes on d. w. ah, what people have to say matters to us. but me, that's why we listen to their stories. reporter every weekend on d. w. some of the worst violence in years is broken out between israelis and palestinians at its height last week, a palestinian attack outside the synagogue left 7 people dead and provoked widespread condemnation including from the arab world. a day earlier israeli forces had raided the janine refugee camp and they occupied westbank. 10 people died. most

of the reported to be government on a visit to israel, u. s. secretary of state anthony, blinking called on both sides to calm tensions and said a 2 state solution was the only way to end, but conflict. my guess this week is the head of the palestinian mission to the u. k . or some sub lot. does he believe that's possible? we see no approach to achieve that, but does the palestinian leadership have the authority among its own people to negotiate with israel and unite the different factions? why the never ending allegations of brutality and corruption it's rags? isn't it time for a new leader who cannot the trust of his people and be outside world for some sober welcome to public zone. thank you. where is all this violence leading? all this violence is absolutely leading to one fact that until a new palestinian generation is born free of occupation colonization and the part

time. and no matter how more is there any possibility we'll be more brutality, moral impression, no matter international complicity, nothing will change until that is achieved. what can stop it? this file and killing. now this current phase of violence, what can stop? one of the main reasons why people are losing their lives because for many years we have been talking about 2 side, the csm. for many years we have been talking about negotiations and peace processes . for many years. we have drawn the wrong parallels between the occupied than the occupier of the colonizer the colonizer, for many years we receive you, us secretary of states and presidents mediators, without addressing the real issues for money as we are hearing the statements that the us and europe, and the u. k. as with the 2 state solution. now the secretary blinking calls for equal measures of freedom of opportunity, of dignity and security to feel calling for the new state solution less than yours

. what is your response to that? without any approach, we see no approach to achieve that. where's your place where you're usually that when you're a punch or some kind of still in our study and people have been subjected to a 100 years since the but for a declaration, promising our land without consulting us. until today we are living on our land. we are resilient and resisting all the legalities and we are growing. we have our universities and professors and poems. and where are we? we have would stood all the pressure and we are that to defend our rights. and our rights now are enshrined an international consensus from the time of the beginning of zionism when started to say that there are, there is no such thing as palestinian people to do today. were you have in the united edition, the tag of the state of palestine like we have gone back over the present, then we will happen back process. mister, zum let the palestinian attack last friday outside the synagogue on the outskirts of jerusalem provoked outrage around the world,

including including among many arab countries in the past, the palestinian authorities condemned attacks on and on civilians. why not this? let's talk about that. why not? this time, let's talk about that. ok, every human loss is a tragedy. and you know very well to and fro the earth that our strategy has been a non violent, popular resistance reverting to international traditional system and international institutions, the source strategy. but let's talk about so what are you saying that it's out of control the violent let's talk about the annual type is out of control. let's. let's talk about that. no. the, the sole responsibility of that incident that you talk about is on israel's government. while it doesn't seem as a warranty, that's why that's why i accept your invitation to come and to tell the world the truth as it is. the truth is, is really government since illegally. it's a war crime, it's citizens to illegal saturn was now very cool. is an illegal settlement in the occupied east jerusalem,

the former responsibility of what happened lives squarely on the government. but since the civilians to commit acts of war crimes and illegal, okay, you can say you do not say and why you keep saying it's their responsibility for the last 10 months that been plenty of warnings of out of worsening security issues in sure. okay. can i, can i get with, can i finish the question by november the u. n. said the conflict was reaching boiling point. did no one take any notice how hard did the palestinian authority try to stop this particular phase of via the ha ha, the heart of this. what did they do until they do one major thing is to be so religious about international law is to be so principal about international law and the use of international legal system. we voted this to the international criminal court because we want to establish accountability. and we only last month asked for an advisory opinion of the international court of justice. that's the highest

international legal system to create accountability because it is the lack of accountability that has gotten us to where we are today. with this most formright fanatics of government in his own guess what them. and this is the real discussion who blocks us from going to these international tradition organs. it's the united states vote vote against us. it's the united you wayne county way. you, when you, when you went anyway, we'll keep our anyway, but you know what? international rules and lou is distant when it comes and applied to your friend. and there is the west where it has been feeling for all these years. when it comes to ezra and, and compare that to ukraine, by the way, when it comes to israel, israel is always shielded by the west, shielded by the u. s. and the okay from our i don't know that mr. or mrs. are only accountability. this is the hot exam lot. there haven't been any meaningful peace talks for almost 10 years. how do you emerge from this un ending cycle of blame and violence? jewish israelis think they are the exclusive victims in this conflict. palestinians

say they're the victims. you're a diplomat. how can you help move the discussion on from this point me principal, by a stop wasting time by really addressing the real suffering of the people. our people has been under aggression for a 100 years softer than this. i don't, i concrete term, a new president mahmoud abbas said last year. he had no choice but to deal with benjamin netanyahu. is that still the case? and if so, what kind of dealings is he going to have with mr. newton? yeah, or talk concrete contract can get mr. nathan here who will not be with us. we have no part not in this early site mister netanyahu. that's what he says. no, no, that's what he does. also, mister natalia has formed the government. the 1st sentence of the agreement of the coalition only few weeks ago is that this government will commit to the land of israel from that over to the sea, and the will accelerate the colonization, the occupied westbank here. you have it right in front of everybody hitting you in

the face of the whole world. there's government does not only not commit to the 2 state solution, but will actively seek to destroy it to dismantle a water netanyahu. is that right? you dismissed him a long time ago. in the past you said he was someone who was very extreme in every sense. he said you are, you have a dream. and that dream is that we palestinians vanished and simply ceased to exist . this is what you say about me. so you are, you are not going to have any context we dismiss. you aren't going to try this this, this, this, this person, this man one, the 1st election in 1997, just few months after robin was assassinated. mine is a new and this person one on the ticket that he will detail the awful piece process . really the whole 2 steps solution and he brags about that and he is so happy saying every morning and every evening that he has devastated the international consensus about the toaster solutions. so deal with home on what grounds on what grounds. this is exactly how we started this discussion. we need to focus on the

real issues. and the real issues is the lack of accountability that will bring and different leaders. and there's, or there's really people feel a sense of impunity and no consequences, no cost associated with all these illegalities. and therefore, and therefore they will, you know, seeing these fanatics like been via and smart rich was, i'm not to the americans. the real deal is the 2 state solution. no question moving forward on that. absolutely not in your eyes. of course, this is our, our, our platform. since 1988, we have fully recognized the 2 state solution allied our since completely with international resolutions and new even recognize the state of israel on the 960 people. your people aren't supporting it any last week. palestinian center for policy and research shows. 2 thirds of palestinians are against it, as well as 53 percent of israelis hasn't got to charge. but they're not against us

because they don't want to see the military occupation ending that because 967. thank finished. i'll do a lot against that because they don't want the freedom and independence and liberty and that territory with each of them as the capital of punish, not against this because they don't want to see refugees return to their properties and homes that are against that because they believe it's not possible they are against it now, because it's a protest vote to say that we see no international action in this direction. we soon we see no. is there any constituency pushing in that direction? and why should we endorse it? of course, that's the reaction to palestinians, ordinary palestinians, even listen and the more to to you to the leaders. in fact, the new militant groups in the west bank no longer listen to the authority. the novelist brigade, the, to best brigade, the lines, then they're all outside your control of what people are people, they follow their guts. and you know, if you come, we are at we, we this of the palestinian side has been the only side committed to the also

provisions for a long time. actually, it has to overstate its will come our commitment for a long time until only last week. you just embed security. actually again, many times you've done the security code division was meant to stop illegal. it is, was meant to stop the invasions and the raids was meant to provide, provide protection, talk to our people, security coordination was meant to back role occupation secure to go to the nation was met and using it not only in the security stream and every sphere these really mentality must change and the protestant national institutions are about to achieve our national rights to be subjected and uncertain to the palestinian people. they need to understand that let's talk about the palestinian national institution. hasn't, hasn't the palestinian authority itself become responsible for holding back progress? last year the tony blair institute for global change wound of what it called a deepening crisis in palestinian politics and

a breakdown of the palestinian leadership that lead the palestinian cause. and it's going to go backwards. that's right, isn't it? the blue institute conceal whatever it's once they're not the only way they can say whatever they want. we have national institutions. we have the palestine liberation organization that either present the or london my office is the law representative office to the kingdom i headed to be a law office in washington, the world recognize the palestine liberation organization. as the umbrella organization, we have all the political factions that are presented in that umbrella organization, except how much there is a process of dialogue right now to include everyone but the p and remains to be the representative of the palestinian people. there is an internal elections and that we need to improve it. that is a huge room of improvement. we are luck, saints and under the most adverse circumstances, no one should expect us to act like sense yet. we need to deliver some sort of

institutional setting and democracy that our people deserve and seek. you're talking about getting democracy. they haven't been election since 2006 and 74 percent of your people want my food a bus to go your population. most of your population hasn't even had the chance to vote to told the palestinian authority is too scared to test itself and with election not through the policy of again, it's the p l or the is the saw. the palestinian authority is an oregon is a, is an offshoot of the pillow. yet we are, we have been one of the few in the region to conduct elections as you very well. remember we can, we conducted elections in 20052006. and when the results came out, it was here, london, and berlin and washington who actually completely boycotted the results and sent shock waves in our system and our ability to conduct our governance. we have issues . we want to convene elections by the way, the source of our legitimacy husband elections, even yasser arafat. lithia harper,

who knew that he was the father of the nation, had to get the approval of his people and offered himself for elections in 1996. but we have issues, we cannot and will not convene elections according to the is really the definition of elections. elections should start in the occupied is jocelyn. we are free of the value or definition. we have a 17. i've got is 17 years a 17 president power yet president. our best was elected by his people president, our bass was a founder of the national liberation movement. fatter, a fatter according to all bonds still is in the leading of the palestinian or political popularity. if you me, president, our boss is the head of the p, a law president, our boss is not just the, the president of the pants in authority. it's very important to make that distinction. he has that capacity legitimacy of all these institutions yet. yes, we need to offer the palestinian people the ability to convene elections and we

need to for time when we need to sort out as was v to over is jocilan. we have 300000 palestinian jewels filaments. they have the absolute right to actually vote there. there are, you know, cost of what and decide who their president and who the parliament is. but also we will not allow is there. and especially in light of prompts, illegality of recognize jerusalem. we will not allow is out of pocket jerusalem. should we not convene lectures in jerusalem? and we need to make sure that garza the 2000000 besieged and gaza are fully included in that. and hopefully the answer to you and it must happen yesterday. so there is a process of julia isn't, will egypt? of course, as a major player, but you are absolutely right. elections is over to you and we must convenient. how does i'm not sure i, we form a top p l o leader said recently of the palestinian authority, the week of the system, the more it closes on itself and the more oppressive it becomes, the future could be peaceful. she said that the longer it takes to see real change,

the more probable violence becomes if you don't allow for peaceful democratic ways of transferring power, people will find other means to express themselves. that's a warning from a very senior and very much respected official in yellow. she is, she'll young taking any notes and you leave with a fresh political mandate would change the situation people that she is and that the 100 isn't unless she is. she was on the executive committee of the highest funds to the politic construction. that is the piano and miss tells you we ought to visit society is the freedom of expression, the different views. actually, there are too much different views and people express that abuse, which is welcome. but 1 point, one point though, some hannon is very genuine, wanting to make sure that our institutions are democratic and we will live up to that. but there are some people who misused this to say that palestinians are brought it upon themselves. that because they are not united because they are mismanaged, the occupations is continuing, not united,

and the oppression is continually, i'm sorry, we are united as a people from us as a people them us. whereas people who are united, we have political differences between political factions, fantasies, deliberations, strategy in a different way. hamas sees it in a completely opposite way. we are now engaging, but the people of palestine are united and i keep getting engaging ideas. i'm getting to know by a 100 examples of the people's unity from 2021 and this year and what happened and the whole palestinian nation inside israel itself in the occupied territories in garza outside uniting in one voice and the same thing repeated. so last week when i read to janine, we are united people. how many times have i heard this and how many times? is it proven to be untrue? i want to pick you up on something you said earlier, you talked about freedom of speech despite years of promising to improve your human rights records of violations continue. there is no political will to changes there

. take torture. the un committee against torture said last august. it was concerned about consistent reports consistent for persons in custody, and both the west bank and gaza, subject to torture neil treatment you ashamed of that? nobody should be subjected to torture. and we as a nation, are you ashamed? and we as a nation under or pressure and for all this years should behave in a certain mother that respect human rights. but you are one by one. again, we operate under a very adverse circumstances. some people want us to behave in a certain manner and we should, but we need to remember, we need to remember democracy is incomplete under the boots of a military occupation. because the site, if you are on elections in this, and if you do, then they will arrest those who are running the elections. and if they don't, that is then before they win, or before they run the artist, them off the. so you telling me these ratings are responsible for you torturing your own people. and i'm telling you the situation over all cannot be measured or

judge according to a standard that you apply on a normal situation. people should never be tortured anywhere, including in palestine that's, that's completely a reject it. but i want to revisit the whole idea of this whole palestinian behavior because there is a school of thought that wants to link or a birthright as in the right of self determination. or behavior nausea. i want to say we should be here, but should we misbehave? we don't lose our rights. we want you liked a during just artifact that fat to hand hammers and everybody else on a fire was you know, the father of the nation. you so what these are you can have, we stay with us. can we stay with the press? did we will because the present is, is bad enough of course, but the past was about, did we achieve our rights? did we conclude the peace process when we are united? so this whole unit thing is an internal palestinian matter that we need to sort it for our own priorities. it has nothing to do with our rights or the engagement with israelis or the international community. why do you keep promising year after year

to do something about human rights and then nothing happens. of particular concern has been the case of the civic activist visit, but not who died in detention in 2021 after the arrested and apparently beaten and severely tortured by your hebron preventative security forces. why no accountability for that death, and why do the 13 people who were put on trial allowed out on a 9 day holiday last year from detention one sort of, i was sort of a found the, i don't know where you get to what sort of revise i don't know where you get your formation from. that incident was absolutely regret the wind rejected by the palestinian people. and there was, it happened, it happened and was wrong. that had happened. so that's why i got way off again, of course, of course, but then at least we got the all these officers to our court and they were invited all of them accountability happen. but the question i want to be asked is how many

it was really settlers about the palestinians over the that was one incident, one guy lost his life, regrettably, how many palestinians lost their lives over the last year or the last few years. 230 only in 2022. the highest says the on begun records in palestine. $35.00 says last month, only january 2023. some of them are banned by israeli civilians who are very armed . how many israel have brought to justice? did they bring to justice? the people who burned atman though upshar the you know that the person who shot 20 and i and washers, and, and colleen and hero in the ninety's 1993 battle. goldstein is now worshipped in israel. more than $10000.00 and visit him. you see there is a lot of focus on sporadic, isolated events and palestine. but there is a lack of war forecasts on the systematic, chronic lack of accountability, lack of democracy, the presence of apartheid. if you are, if you were

a little discussion because there's other, if you weren't israeli officials sitting there, i would be asking you these questions. but i'm asking you about what the palestinians do because you want to represent damn of that, which i understand you should do more answer. answer me this question. how hard is it to champion the cause of the palestinians around the world these days? it's, it's, it's, it's very inspiring. i feel so prevalent. it is the owner of my life and i am so inspired. whatever i go, are you lazy hope that you will make progress, come to you, my heart is full of hope. a few see what they see every day. i leave you here and they go to the london school of economics where there are 3 major universities convening a talk for palestine. the london school, the u. c. l and kings come and see the students come and see the generations of the future. i'm sure you've seen what happened to london in 2021. israel attacked alexa and the shifter a hand in gaza. there were, there were, there were things of houses. i did not expect to see that or, or of people. people are people everywhere more than 50 years of occupation. do you

think you live to see a 2 state solution? what antony, blinking an independent palestinian state, living side by side with israel, do you think you'll live to see that? oh yes. oh yes. how. how, how will that go out that the, the sport that the trajectory of things are absolutely in our side when israel was established, primarily it's beginning with this country. there was not even the cognition of our existence in the band for declaration. 67 words. it says, respecting the religious and civil minorities rights of the my notice we were 3rd by balfour and the british authorities at the time, minorities with only 7 and religious rights. we have no national rights. my do think things are going your way. last i need was huge number, the dying for their cause and their battles. okay. no, no, no, that's not ok that dying because that is a military occupation that the shooting them and killing them. and you and i need to discuss how we stand out there every once you talk on killing of it,

but not the only one that be gone. we will not recognize as a nation. look up us, you are talking to the policy and ambassador to the u. k that came after a 100 years of a generation after generation of resistance, our resilience and the revolution. and yes, our father and all that generation that brought a central discovery and also about the narrative. when it began, as one was the beacon of democracy for the west, every one of your generation has taken part in our keyboards of israel. israel was celebrated everywhere to the astonished in the international media. it's tarnished and the new generations apiece, abuse accords with the arabs. yes, you've seen cut, cut out on how the world expressed their actual genuine absolute support and siding with the palestinian people rights. governments can do it, is that they could be attack on the synagogue or condemned the attack on the so a lot of people, what, what should we be the out? what, what data people have shown during the world cup is a, is,

is an example of where the region is. now there are some transaction and politics, you know, that we have expressed our opinion that these accords did not serve the cause of peace. it broke away from dub consensus, that normalization should be an incentive and an outcome for peace, not an entry for it. and what we want from has happened because since the signing of these records, things have become more horrific and more horrible. doubling of the settlement activities, all that happened in the last 2 years on the record, the highest number of constant in killed. ha, susanna didn't tell a sublet. thank you very much, both. tom, thanks for being a complex. you're most welcome. ah ah.

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