from berlin, you can find much more on our website that steadily decamp. ah, it happened with a super sonic boot last weekend. the u. s. fighter jet shot down a chinese spy balloon off the atlantic coast to stop the coast of south carolina. we don't know much more than that. it was an apparent case of the shoot. first. ask questions later. so what about that balloon? and why did the pentagon just confirm that there have been other balloons sent from china? and before this happened, beijing and washington said that they wanted to mend tattered relations. was that true? or was it just a lot of hot air? i recall from berlin. this is the day. ah!

what began as a spy balloon has become a trial balloon. and i commend president biden's leadership. and unfortunately, the president failed that test. this is lee unintended entry of the airship. it's a u. s. airspace is an isolated accidental incident or a mom. we sent a clear message to china that this is not accepted to do this acceptable and irresponsible behavior present was paralyzed for an entire week by boldly also coming up the deadliest single attack since the russian invasion of ukraine began to night. a report from the city of denney pro, they were ordinary people, leading ordinary lives in these homes. now at least $46.00 are dead, including lost his parents. nasty, lost her boyfriend, a soldier, just months ago to the russians. for to our viewers

watching a p b s in the united states into all of you around the world. welcome a. we begin the day with a chinese spy balloon shot down by the u. s. and the pop heard from washington all the way to beijing. until a few days ago, you a secretary of state entity blankets plans were to be in china today for the 1st visit by a talk us officials since before the pandemic or that trip was canceled due to what is now being called balloon gate. over the weekend, the us shot down what it says was a chinese spy balloon. beijing has called the response irresponsible, and it says that the u. s. shot down a weather balloon. u. s. fighter jet down the balloon over the atlantic ocean, just off the coast of south carolina on saturday after the balloon had drifted for several days all the way across north america. some republicans in washington have

criticize you as president biden for not taking action sooner on the other side of the pacific bay. she has been trying to play down this incident and is accusing washington of over reacting. well, good. as far as i know, it's not the 1st time the scientific research balloon lost control internationally . the unintended entry of the airship and to us airspace isn't isolated. an accidental incident, but it tested the u. f. a from ferry and maintaining china us time. and it's crisis management. we help the less we'll work with china to avoid miscalculations and damaging relations. what might be, where now that the balloon has been shot down. what next for china in the united states, i'm joined tonight. why michael hearst. and he said of trying to research with 20 to the research in new york city and by mark montgomery, he's with the foundation for the defense of democracies. he joins me from washington. d. c. gentlemen to both of you. well, it's good to have you on the program, michael. let me start with you. help us understand here. what china was trying to

do. what, what did we see here in, in this balloon that was moving across north america? well, i think that's actually the hardest part here is to determine china's intentions. it's always difficult to speculate what's happening within china system. i think based on the comments from us, defense officials, i doubt that it was a weather balloon. but i also would be skeptical that this was intentionally provocative act on the chinese side. surely times military knew, you know where the balloon was going and what the goal was. but i don't think that china's leadership wanted to scuttle the trip or, or wanted events to unfold as they have mark. what do you think it will allow that if it were, if we believe the pentagon is a spy balloon for beijing or to allow it to cross into the united states?

i mean, that is quite the, the bold move for beijing to make. well 1st thank you for having me. and i do agree with michael that you know, that i tend to think that it probably more than a weather balloon based on the u. s. department of fences, right? strong indications or comments that it was a surveillance book. why try to do this? i, i'm also befuddled. there is not a logical reason. it was totally brazen to run something at 60 to 70000 feet out to that's clearly within our territorial air space. and it is not something that's done routinely. people, people tend to think that or flying aircraft over china or russia, we do not do that. and you know, the, the last time we had a weather incident problem, you know, back at 960, with gary powers. you too. if that's about when we had did these kind of over flights with aircraft over a major power like china or russia. so we don't do this,

why they would do it back at us. it is a real question to understand and i tend to think it can't have been decided the very highest levels of the chinese communist party because the risk will turn on this was was backwards. yeah, i want to talk about that in just a moment about, you know, the communication that is or is not taking place within the communist party in china. but 1st, i'd like for you gentlemen to take a listen to what to what the chinese, what people in china are saying about what happened ticklish to you may when i sure i think this is a bit of an embarrassing moment for the american, he's a mule because the u. s. air force, which prides itself on being the world's leading air force, surprisingly, did not solve this civilian aircraft problem quickly. they dragged it out for 3 days. you had your on puerto fund. yeah. was allowed to go from my perspective when i think about it, if it were us balloon which had floated to china, we may take similar measures from a personal point of view. it's probably not

a big deal. it's understandable, considering that the current international situation is very tense. i think i can understand the reaction from the united a feel for a nearby. this is making a big fuss about this incident, but it doesn't do any good. it doesn't serve wells, he's so michael, making a big fuss over this me does. that's the way the jim wants the world to see this. if this balloon had been sent to collect weather data, i mean, if it had gone, of course, if they're claiming how do we read the fact that no one did as far as we know from the chinese government from beijing attempted to alert the americans. right. that is one of the questions here, if this were a weather balloon. but you know, what i think is most interesting about the interviews that you just played in the comments is that, you know, i think on the whole, this did not generate a very intense reaction domestically with china. because after all,

it is the loss of one below. why that matters is that i think this whole episode shows risks to the relationship. if we do have a more serious accident or miscalculation in a particular, i'm worried about a situation where you have both the u. s. domestic public and the chinese domestic public up in art. i know that we had that this time we had certainly the u. s. public or at least a portion of it. and of course the media fascinated by this, but i think we've kind of dodge to bullets so to speak, by the fact that for china, this is not as much of a big deal. but another crisis, for example, over taiwan, could put us in a very different dynamics in market. what about the role of the u. s. president? here you could pose the question, why not pick up the phone and call president she and demand an explanation at the beginning of this. instead of letting it, you know, cross north america out before you say ok, go and shoot it down. why not just pick up the phone and called beijing and say what's going on? so i'd separate those. i think you're absolutely right that,

you know, an opportunity to call talk was she was missed here because we certainly had the predicate for a conversation with this balloon doing here. and in terms of how the president, in the military handle this, this is the right, this is the right move. i mean, you don't shoot this down over us a territory, you know, because of the, even limited and small risk, a fracture of ground damage. they did that, they handle this exactly appropriately. but the part that's not right is the initial response in, you know, missing that opportunity to talk to china and then also not a learning the american public for about 5 days of it. it just, it popped, it popped over the top of montana, is the 1st we see it when clearly it had been traveling us air space for about 4 days before that. and martin, this apparently is not the 1st time that chinese spy balloons have been spotted over you with territory me. that's what we're just learning of now. is,

is that something that the public should be alarmed by or, or how do you read that? try i'm, i'm a retired u. s. navy admiral spent most of his time in the, in the pacific and i'll tell you that we routinely, you know, saw surveillance balloons and surveillance issues. they didn't pass over us territory routinely, but certainly the idea that 1 may have passed over guam or the aleutians in the island chain off of alaska or the hawaiian island chain would not have been uncommon, but that also wouldn't have incited this kind of press response and that's why there's this confusion, i think, between the trump administration and by the ministration officials, the previous passes, were not like a large balloon, you know, laboriously passing over my tan, missouri, and exiting in south carolina new. let me ask both of you, michael. start with you this balancing act that the united states and china are engaged in right now. you know,

we're talking about 2 adversaries militarily possible. at the same time, we're talking about the world's 2 largest economies that are interdependent and almost every facet of the economies of both countries are married to each other. the reaction that we saw from washington and from beijing, does that tell us that these countries, are they perfecting the, the balance act, or are they actually losing their, their grip here? i think we should be worried about the grip that the 2 countries have. and i think the reason for that is we have a mix of intense mutual distrust and also some very difficult domestic politics in both countries. and if you look back at the relationship, you know, there have been 2 near crises in the past once when the us accidentally bumped chinese embassy in belgrade in 1099. and then of course, the collision between a u. s. plain and chinese military plane, off the coast of hein on in 2001 both of those were successfully diffused the

question is, could we diffuse that kind of episode in this kind of political climate? and i think, you know, we have to be worried given just the reaction that we've seen from, you know, from this that, so i do worry about what this means in terms of our ability to avoid a spiral between the 2 sides. if there's another incident or an accident or miscalculation mark, what do you say? i mean we, we know that for now there's no trip to china for the u. s. secretary of state plans to improve relations between these 2 countries that obviously still need each other. what, where are we i do think we're going to have a challenge. i think broadly the united states has, has been an absence caretaker in the, in the pacific for the last 20 for years while we've been heavily involved in the middle east. our focus is finally returning after some awarded attempts in the obama and trump administrations. i think president biden's team is becoming more

focused on the pacific military's more focused on the pacific. our economic leaderships more focused on this relationship and, and whether there's fair practices in our trade with china and that is going to pressurize the relationship, i think, which i don't say was a free pass. the chinese got a pretty limited hall pass for the last 20 years. and now the united states is saying, wait, this is the appropriate way to. this is the transparency we expect to see. this is the rules based system where we're advocating for and we're in strong disagreement with china on a lot of basic principles. so i do think there'll be a lot more conflict, disagreement in and, and competition and crises over the next decade. jim into both of you. we appreciate excellent analysis tonight, michael hurst with the 20 to the research and mark montgomery with the foundation for the defense of democracies for both of you. thank you and have

a to ukraine now were residents of denise prob, are still coming to terms with a russian attack. last month, at least $46.00 people were killed in the st. ukrainian city on january 14th, when a russian missile struck a block of apartment bill you see right there. many residents were trapped under the rubble. some were successfully rescue, but it remains one of the moors deadliest single attacks against seville. w mcsaunder went to dundee, bro, he met one of the 1st responders on the scene after the building was hit and he met a woman who escaped with only her life. now he needs to take a moment. this is the 1st time jenny has been back here. he just got home from the theatre with his wife when he heard the explosion and rushed to the scene to help us is what i asked such meaning, kidney do we cannot have them done. sure. you get your vehicle and in order to bill

some more to their schedules custodian of serving euclidean, the a to visual element terrible as to what you were calling to see as of doing it wouldn't just name what she knew pulling a book dally than the hold those hibler gene could actually echo, so shut which league of what your vision motor to be little resuming with some more then they found someone who was still alive 0 to the city with the other people is out of re run you politically. it is also addressed, hopefully it separate it on the at the new luchella's shameka. now don't cry you mahogany will as it isn't of little it showed no. what does osalla another renewal is in a huddle. when they, unless trouble,

we only need directly is a thing on the ma holla, which i will of to comes danina. another muller? yeah. a lot of bill of sale chip for you and fee for holly brochure. you but this remains the only good part of the day for him. they were ordinary people, leading ordinary lives in these homes. now at least $46.00 are dead, including nastiest parents, natalia and maxine. the family lived on the 6th floor daily in lieu of which kimble ear dozier pre heaton and my eaves aaliyah, loves the darville of none of them all. i am shocked, i said with a terrible math as perchance convey name, bye to call them to us all above was rewarded even as a v. i should have a book this for you got the in the bama for from, with the to book was the either the about the mosquito. so be scorm.

davina mahovski's voluntary. did the bomber hard to fishable an opinion of patrina, matters of dear diploma miss between them? varina, missouri, the velocity of all in the valley. to katy for the look of ali, the sierra hol, naca, the mileage and team? brit all or car. it shaw numbers are blizzard with it's is a growth chart of when the balloon us number 3 empty, or we need a question, a terminology, several or nations at the ah. exam to put it down. only shy sheila for be dollars on e. thank you. when you put in a boy, you had the not a what a very cheer, but he is cause element. night divot which i am we should our her was in the monarchy. renee is but alex, you got message, get a better e. yes, because our number one is a little i snuggle canada i had before. i cannot go to examine

throws book, eat a dia with clear which is rosamille. i shaw and he shahan and watch them voice showed the ah, blue car, nazareth, the meal of cecilia of september, and the missouri bullet. they had they bore nasty, severe, oh star for it. oh, sits me die? i steal it shall which r r e r. 's rosamille i shall stop. will i say yes it was in me i showed the cave in as not within a grill it to you. we had our stanislaw speed of alice issues name of saddam graham which gives nestle de stalez pizza valley. even then i let us now steal, lost her boyfriend, a soldier just months ago to the russians. yeah. even cuba, thank you. k, which of i and then of is did see the day i live night civil guys written

living. it's a civil law which of law the dollar. she says her parents taught her to be brave. her determination not to give up is now their legacy. for more on this, i'm joined now by roxanne cohen, silver. she's a professor of psychology, medicine and public health of the university of california, irvine. she's specializes in trauma research professor. it's good to have you on the program, the ukranian people, they have been traumatized. they've been terrorized by war for almost a year. now. we're talking about a nation psyche that has been under constant attack. what do the people need in order to cope in order to survive this? while it's extraordinary, important to recognize that living under war is extremely stressful.

and i think it's very important that we acknowledge the incredible stress that the people of ukraine have been under. or she said about a year. i think it's very important that we recognize, however, that there is not one size fits all response to the stress. we might expect that people across the country are dealing with it in many different ways. even people within the same family. we hear we've been hearing this now for for months, the west sending weapons to help the ukrainian military defend itself. it seems that it's the battlefield that, that gets our attention. are we neglecting what the civilians need psychologically in this? i think it's very important that programs like this are acknowledging the incredible stress that the people in ukraine are under right now. and i think it is

important that we recognize that people are in this together. they have one another that they can seek support from. i think it's important to recognize that as i said, there isn't one way to respond. so there may be some people who may be experiencing more distress than others. we have tremendous loss. and i think it's important that we acknowledge the psychological, the potential psychological consequences of war. we know from other countries stand people who live through a war and very often sanitized by this, but not everybody. and i think it's important to recognize that there is enormous variability and professor, do we know what the, the reporting of this war does to the psyches of the ukrainian people? i mean, we do on this program, we talk about what people are going through mentally, psychologically,

but we also report and show images of the war on a daily basis. what does that do to the minds of the people watching? yes, i would like to acknowledge that that is of some concern to me, the research that my colleagues and i have been conducting for over 20 years suggests that graphic images and amplified the distress that people are feeling. so i would strongly encourage people to monitor the degree to which they are exposed to graphic images, to monitor their media intake across all forms of media, social media, traditional media. because the images in fact, are quite potent. and we have seen in other contexts that graphic images can both increase the likelihood that people have. i'm going psychological sentimentality, but also physical health in this is barry. this kind of stress and ongoing stress

can be psychologically and physically. and let me take that a step further. we do, we report every day on the war, but it's, it's almost impossible to actually report from the front lines of this war the, the consequences of that are that we really don't have a lot of images of the fighting that we can show. so you don't have those graphic images. is that a blessing or is it a curse for the people in you cry? it's a psychological blessing, i would say, because we are able to see in our research that it is the graphic, gruesome images, images of blood, people, maimed people dying people dead that are most psychologically harmful. seeing the chaos and understanding that the war in and of itself is extremely important.

however, to keep it in people's minds, to promote action, to ensure that people are support support of their how they're compatriots. and so i think it serves in for psychological purposes to be beneficial, not to seek some images, but i'm in no way advocating that we are reporting or in any way sensor what it is that we're providing the 1st before we run out of time. but you know, i was really glad that we were able to get you on the show tonight. you've researched national traumas for more to terror. attacks to natural disasters, in your opinion. has humanity learned any lessons in how to best cope mentally and psychologically with these horrible events? obviously, we haven't learned the lessons of war, many would say, but the lessons and how to code have we learned it? i think we've learned a few things. one is how important it is for people to engage in self care. that is

to monitor the media intake to try to sleep, eat, and exercise if possible. so we, that's one message we've learned. the 2nd message that we've learned is how important social support is. so how important it is for others to reach out to those who are under a lot of stress. and the 3rd message that we've learned, as i've said previously, is that there is no one size fits all. so some people may want to talk about what they're experiencing, others may not. and i think we should acknowledge and have patience for our peers and friends and family who may choose to respond to this event very differently. the other thing that we know from jesse research, we're fortunate because we're out of time, but i just wanted to say thank you very much. you remind us of how powerful just a helping hand can be the someone in the professor roxanne cohen, silver, thank you. thank you very much. the day's almost done. the conversation continues

online. you'll find us on twitter at dw news. you can call me at brent golf tv. we will see you tomorrow with a pulse, a beginning of a story that moves us and takes us along for the ride. it's all about the perspective. culture

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