getting ahead, using tech, as our documentary series of founders valley a meet the founders, empowering their continent through digital innovation. to transform on working and living conditions in their country and inspiring the world with their ideas. valley africa watch you know w documentary. with nearly a year after protein launched his attack on ukraine, nato says rush as much feared to spring offensive is already underway. both sides are suffering painful losses and running through vast stocks of ammunition as they wage. a fierce battle for small gains in the east of the country. in strategically

important by mort, for example, months of unrelenting assault by the private mercenary group 5. now have taken a bloody toll on both sides and destroyed the city. protein needs wagner to succeed . but the groups later you have get a play gushing and says the battle is far from over. where does that leave the other side as ammunition stocks, dwindle and casualties rise, we are asking proteins latest offensive. how is nato responding with hello and welcome to to the point. it is a pleasure to greet our guests. laura font daniels is head of the research division, the america's at the german thank tag w s w p. and it's a great pleasure to welcome my colleague vladimir as to paul. he is originally from

st. petersburg and works on d w's, russian desk, and were very pleased to have with us natasha coleman yoke. she is a freelance conflict reporter from ukraine who heads the independent broadcaster ha motzkin tv, and founded the public interest journalism lab. she joins us from tia by skype. vladimir, with the 1st anniversary of the russian invasion looming, vladimir putin would like to have some successes to show will. in fact, russian forces gratify that wish he's desperately need to deliver some kind of victory to the russian public next week. because he will be talking to russian permanent next week with an all speech to the mission. so iran expecting a kind of rational friends if in eastern the green book, those signs of trying to start such of it of for him. so in the recent 3 weeks and through some days, but there is no major success on this. can you say

a little bit more about that? because the battle particularly for validity on the eastern front in done yet, is seen as an opening move, in this much dreaded spring offensive by russia. there are varying reports about the scale of russian losses and also about russia's capacity to keep sending new forces. what do you know about that in depo? no, not march or a roofing from open sources is smarter with vest on public knows the russian losses was indeed huge. there are numbers circulating of 10001000 troops 1000 on the 2 days of the air filter their pictures from, from drones or of dozens of russian thinks destroyed by ukrainian fire. so it was barely managed to rush and try to start offensively. marivel cooper. natalia can ukraine's forces stand up to a russian army with what appears to be

a steady supply of new recruits, albeit, largely untrained once. so you mentioned the hood or no the operation to buy the russians to overtake bombs. started in march last year, so it's lost in almost 11 months and there was no major success. of course it's closed. but even using this, wagner group is notorious, but probably considered to be one of the most capable in december ski l. there is no major success. and also if you speak about this russian military week or is sometimes especially within this last months, this one will be expected. very tough winter. yes. the rock casualties among the ukrainian soldiers. yes, i hear and i know about many, so it's really cool and tragic. but at the same time, russian sometimes report about over taking the village, which technically has 33 residents, you know, so, you know, mentioning a number of the towns, yes. same pool. and there are people there they left,

the towns are destroyed. but really they are really mine the towns nobody would ever heard. so this, this really shows that for russia, even like taking a small town at this stage, isn't really any the any way. so ukrainians of course, are prepared for larger, larger friends in the dorm bus. and from the russian border, park region was probably, but still there are no like real concerns about were taking any, you know, a territory which was which was invaded by russia. you know, a year ago, laura mean have ukraine's western allies, including the u. s. defense secretary are raising a lot of concerned about whether they can supply enough ammunition in future. apparently there's even been talk of artillery units of ukraine needing to ration. so i think that is, was the nature defense ministers have been discussing now is how to solve the

logistics problem. i think it's the general secretary of native set, and that will be key because we can not only count on the level of ambition on the ukrainian side and the determiners of ukrainian soldiers. but they will also need additional military support and induction. that's obvious. to tell you some u. s. military experts are saying that it is unrealistic to try to hold back mac, you mentioned that very long and very bloody battle that has been going on. in fact, it is the bloodiest of all the battle so far in this war. so some u. s. military experts are saying, perhaps ukraine needs to concentrate on its own counter offensive and stop seeking to defend. are you seeing any signs that ukrainian leaders are taking that advice and preparing to give up on the city?

so from what we understand, of course, we can, and we do not know that much about you know, the details of the military operations. the whole of battle is a very complex process of taking tough decisions by the ukranian army. sometimes they might lose and we, which might lose a small town. but i know that the result was a conscious decision to leave when it's necessary. we have examples of it better than you can lose the chance to major towns which were actually lost in the course of this war. and that happened the last time or less in may and june of the last year. so that might be possible, but it's always that explained by the plant retreat. if it's, if it's necessary, the point to move, what we understand is pretty strategic. so, or is it to a close to open these a place, you know, that might be the attacks because the for,

for the cities, because what we really understand, you know, it's not about the just negotiation of the wheel. it's really very practical. and that practical the throw, the russians are, the less they are shelling the ukrainian mainland the great in town, so the ukrainians ought to keep the russians as far as possible. the head of the russian mercenary group, wagner has compared the battle for back moved to a meat grinder and clearly thinks that his forces are better prepared to withstand the grinding than their ukrainian opponents or even regular russian troops. yet wagner forces to have taken massive casualties. a battle field and a netscape corpses, as far as the i can see, they are soldiers from the wagner group, a paramilitary organization. many of the fighters are murderers and criminals recruited from russian prisons and sent to war by again, the plea goes in founder of wagner and putin confident he promised the

convicts freedom if they survived 6 months at the front, apparently with moscow's blessing. b, o m no good, he of the soldiers have years of experience fighting. it is probably the most experienced army in the world at the moment, and they perform their duties independently. ups of $50000.00, wagner mercenaries are set to be fighting in ukraine. they are considered extremely ruthless and operate and secret. the group is particularly active around the front bind city of back most. their pre gulshan had allegedly recently achieved decisive combat successes and publicly praised his private army for it. however, he claims that he has no political ambitions but pusan does not seem to trust him. the russian military command is now set to be taking the lead in frontline, fighting, relying on its own soldiers is a power struggle looming in the kremlin. with that

question, straight away to you, that emir, what do you think sorts on, sir? no, there's no power struggle in kremlin or no power struggle in criminal youth. but there's growing times among the ross analysts that some parts of russian that it's, i'm not happy with the russian ministry of defense in the russian army. and even you, because i'm trying to use the warrens ukraine and in the very same way as a wedding or put in use of the orange. it's now 9 to 92000 because for letting me put in, it was a trembling. that was a start of his biggest, but it be good political career. it was a start of his beach for russian president the war interesting. and then to name again. but it wasn't positions himself as a very effective, very brutal, very deceased, if needed the leader in the very same base wouldn't, wouldn't use the warranted now 2524 years ago. think ocean and he gushing, not only control was the wagner, i mercenary,

gro pit he also has claimed responsibility for the famous internet research agency, the troll a factory. that in fact, meddled in the us elections in 2016. how powerful does that make him? him? what is interesting about him? he claimed orange of pro fabric anson for his book and claim to do orange of buckner group. recently, he came from the shade of the russian politics because eric, his whole business was in a shed, or he was never admitting that he is an owner of throat from reconsider his book. and the wagner group, in the recent beaks and months, he openly sent in, in the public in saith, yes, it's me yet, it's me. and he is pushing more and more in the russian public is getting more inter with his, with his and kim self is a kind of public figure in the russian politics. laura, as we heard in the report progression says he has no political ambitions. he's

often known as proteins cook because in fact, that is exactly what he once was or what are western security services saying about it all. do they see him as a real rival to put in the question and is really whether there would matter or not . if he's a real rival or not, it would only matter, i guess, if, if there would be a completely different policy coming along with a new leadership and russia right in new position on ukraine. a change in the cause of the war and the russian side. and i don't think anyone can expect that from him . so therefore, i think it's very reasonable to think about how to support ukraine rather than trying to read at the different lines in the, in fighting on the russian side and in the russian powerhouse or elite. now the, the us is put our wagner on the terrorism list, or it considers frigo gene,

a war criminal distinct that makes any difference where it, it will eventually or one day there will be trials. i'm sure and, and of course the u. s. has a significant arms is sort of vested interest in having him go to court or also because of the manipulations in the us election. so that's another sort of key interest on the u. s. side. both for humans of sound of recognition because in the russian borrow boy in the russian both struggle american sanctions is for russian federal to force or one like pre gordon is the sign of recognition shoes proud to be sanctioned, spoken out of the few brought to do this oldest pro, occasions toward the verse because of the new russian odour jury duty or there were, it takes us to bremar to the united states. natalia, as i mentioned it up. yes, please. yeah, i in fact wanted to, to join to a discussion about it because what's interesting, but it's not a power struggle between teaching and pre gordon,

but between different groups in the russian military. so progression was famous for criticizing the russian army and telling like give me the hours and we'll show you that it should be different. that exactly happened in december. but on the wagner joined in the separation of the book. but from what we can say that they're absolutely successful, you know, after the months. so now he's kind of hasn't managed to prove what he was supposed . and the wagner, of course, with these 2 types of their people, the former convicts who died and must, and their lead escaping. and of course, the mercenary also has a different, would have a different written ability because they're not regular troops because we just usual prisoners of war. there, merson, they're pretty well trained because they fought in syria for the molly elsewhere. but also they proven to be not that good, it doesn't mean the craniums i'm dying again, i should say we should remind about that that the price,

the desk of the price is high for the great. but still, he didn't managed so that it's quite an interesting period that him the gray zone, which is a social media platform that is associated in fact with wagner, has castigated russian commanders in the regular army forward the losses invalid dar and also in the back note region and called them to be held accountable for their up there and out in public trials. what kind of an influence does that and do the attacks by russian military bloggers on, on the, the regular russian forces? what kind of influence does that have on the russian public as a whole? it's not the 1st time that the general grades on which belongs to pre gordon at taking the russian military command. regoza itself took to the cameras in the morning. dr. sorta v john greens on and doing on the one of the us military broke, excuse you, in which video she screeches,

i think russian army in russian general command or the both leadership in the ukraine. it's his huge follower, super in the us, of those so called military braga, which has dozens and hundreds of thousands of followers. there are people which are embedded with the russian troops on the russian south and east of ukraine. and there are quite influential for wanton for 2nd. it's quite important source of knowing about the disconnect mode, the russian part of russian military comments in the ukraine. 2 questions. first of all, could that spark at the military blogger is the greys own? could that spark a higher level of public dissatisfaction with put in and are you seeing a brutalization and perhaps are so a radicalization of public opinion in general? i mean, there's not a brutalization of public opinion in general and also does a consolidation of the public opinion russian,

because iran is like federal to non veterans live the country or go able to stay with us. boy, because in itself, proposal told the bishop should destroy theaters 1st of all, because of the russians were stopping us to fight the ukraine saw these nor a declaration in russia, but the very much of consolidation herment in the 1st christian wrought room. but what for the 1st question i had asked you whether you think it could spark broader dissatisfaction with putting himself normally food will not spark that brother dissatisfaction with britain because the public opinion in russia doesn't play any watch roles in the political process because the political it's our sa, consolidated, the real, been not public protest and public boss with, with can over put him because you're on his account, but, but 0 to craig. no. laura, what do you think that the, in fighting in the kremlin and the re shuffle of ukraine's military command would mean for the duration of the conflict and are so for putting the future?

so i think both sides now are really and dependent on chewing military gains and winds. and everyone is sort of focused on the spring because we're expecting offensive on the russian side. and also i think this is great hopes and nick expectations in the u. s. that you, ukrainians will be able to gain territory and, and will be able to if eventually it gets to negotiations be in a different bargaining position than before. because there's so much support on the military side and human terran, 8 and so on. coming from the west that the ukrainians need to show that their effective and, and, and a successful i'm so imagining put in, not making any gains, obviously leads to reduces power position. i think it would be the same even in an

authoritarian regime as it is in a democracy for zelinski. i think it counts on, on both side and you'd figure victory in is in a particular deliver something to the russian public. verizon. let sir. dig deeper on that question with regard to a weapons as russia and ukraine battle for every meter of land. nato's head has said that the conflict has become a race of logistics. no sooner did a trans atlantic coalition. a sent to kias longstanding plea for battle tanks than key of presented its next request will ammunition and materiel arrive in time. and what more does ukraine need? tanks, missiles and jets. ukraine needs more weapons to defend itself against russian attacks, and it needs them as soon as possible. the front lines are lacking essentials and everybody's not asking for more ammunition. insufficient ammunition supplies, long delivery times of weapons,

and training of ukrainian soldiers. while russians new offensive has long since gotten under weight, nato states are coming under increasing pressure. so yes, we have a chance. yes, we have a problem. but the problems order to be sold and we are addressing the problem and we have struck the juice to sold with both in the short term, also longer term or to us, mobilize the pants industry. in other words, nato states must continue to provide arms to ensure ukraine continues to be supplied with weapons. in addition, started back is no longer ruling out. the delivery of fighter jets to ukraine. nato is joining forces. is it enough to put pollution on the defensive world? let me put that question straight away to you. natalia, is it enough? it is not enough and it's always

a bit too late. and the price of that is the life, both of the civilians and of the military. but to bring this discussion to the point, you know, it's really not, it's of course about the weapon. but for me, coming from the ground or a journalist who was reporting human rights, i should really say, now we're living this cold with a weapon delivery. i can clearly explain that, you know, neither her son and her son in the region couldn't be liberated without this weapon, no hierarchy region which is a huge part and the life is returning back to the stones. you know, we were there, we know about, you know, people and muss attacked, repressed, killed, tortured, so, and now after some months as the life is, it's not perfect, but it's getting to be normal. so it's doable. also what i've also observed myself, you know, i was from, it was very interesting to admit that when we saw the results of the attacks from

the high mercy, a particular artillery. you know, it's very precise. and when you go to the liberated towns where ukrainians, you use more sophisticated weapons, there is less that much less people heard compared to the old fashioned, but old fashion ammunition the russians are fighting wes's. so really, the delivery of the weapon, more sophisticated weapons 1st makes the life of many, many people know we speaking about the south and hundreds of thousands people say for the. so the russians go, the more they approached, the less they can attack into the ukrainian tones, which is also saving light. so it's not just the competition, you know, it's, it has even if it's lusting for some, some months as any type of weapon really practically saves another town. so and now the platoon, another group of people. so natalia in a word, what is the single thing that you crane most needs? now, the munich security conference is getting underway. there will surely be

a lot of behind the scenes discussion there. what would be the single most important factor here in these i can just refer to the ukranian leadership because they know better what i know. it's worth these stamps for the future counter offense, which is been leave to be possible and as well. still air defense and jet or is it remains a critical. thank you, laura. the battle to tank coalition that german chancellor, olaf schultz worked so hard to hammer out, actually now appears not to be ready to deliver the promise number of battle tanks any time soon. ironically, berlin is actually out in front in this case, which is unusual. our report concluded that nato is joining forces, but how well is it doing so, and where do you think nato goes next?

where it needs to deliver? would it promised? and then we can tell her, well, things preceded, it needs to get to quick solutions. now that's obvious and where it's going next, i don't know, i think come to the aircraft. the nato secretary general didn't excluded. and the fighter pilots being trained in the u. k. i think that gives you some kind of an indication letting me or nate us commander and he is a secretary general as we heard in the report is doing his best to sound optimistic . but he also said recently he doesn't see putting ending this war any time soon. mean either, because ross is all in this world. there's nothing to lose for putting those nor a bag for him for the russian power loop. so the need to succeed somehow in the green, the signaling, the reason that they're re do to negotiate on many channels. but in the october, in the current situation, there's no way back for us so,

so which will not go to compromise on something on their ground. in exeter, i'm afraid. before we close, let me very briefly pick up on comments that we have received from our youtube viewers following our last program on ukraine. many of them were highly, highly skeptical of the prospect that negotiating with putin would either be feasible or could end the war. how do you see it very briefly, natalia? are they right? can we have no, any sign of russia ready to nick? she even, it's neither from the rhetoric nor from the actions. laura, i agree. although there's a discussion in germany and many intellectual, it's asking for negotiations. i don't see it being the right time. now. flattery. i'm afraid. no. what's your sense of how long the protein can hold out with this war? i'm

a for craig. i'm afraid. thank you very much to all of you for being with us for this program. and thanks to all of our viewers do. if you're watching us on youtube, do send us your comments, please. we'd like very much to hear from you from with

who conflicts with tim, sebastian? it's almost a year since russia invaded ukraine with no fees talk. so a ceasefire of any kind in prospect. my guess is we must go to meet with former army officer and former director of the canadian moscow center,

which was shut down last april. why did moscow go to war? just as the west begun the dialogue, who tended been demanding conflict with 30 minutes d. w, i were interested in the global economy, our portfolio d w business beyond. here's a closer look at the project. our mission. to analyze the fight for market dominance. kinda step ahead with d w business beyond. mm hm.

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eating animal a documentary series about the future of food with the great debate this week on t w. o the this is d. w. news live from berlin. devastating earthquake sleep, an ancient city in ruins. we report from untouched. yeah. where the disaster has wiped out historical sites, dating back thousands of years also on the program about.