ah, for hundreds of politicians, military officials and diplomats from around the globe for the next 3 days southern germany is the place to be a munich security conference is widely seen as the most important defense meeting on the international calendar. just one year ago, leaders at the meeting discussed a war they hoped would never happen. at this year's conference, russia attack on ukraine dominates the agenda as the anniversary of lot of air pollutants. full scale invasion near is participants take stock of how the war has shaken up the international order. and for decades old alliances and policies to the test was clear now as that a war intended to divide. the west has in many ways, brought it closer together. and while russia has not even been invited to the meeting, it was ukraine's president zalinski who gave the opening address on nichol really, him, berlin. and this is the day ah,

july's has no chance. does wise to give, put in the message that we are ready to stay all the time together with you cream goliath ma st. louis? we want 1st to help the grange city through the reason people in sovereignty, there is no alternative to ukrainian victory. there is no alternative to ukraine. pan in the e u. there is no alternative to brain nato. ah, also on the day growing international criticism of a wave of arrests in to nicea as president chi sayed cracks down on opponents. you bonus again, was it because of the german government views with great concern that many

representatives of the chinese in opposition, politicians, journalists, and activists have been arrested in recent days. the more cotton democratic principles of freedom of expression in political diversity, as well as the rule of law must apply in a democratic country like journeys here and get. ah, welcome to the show. when volunteers lensky took to the stage at the munich security conference last year. he warned that the rules, the world agreed on decades ago, no longer work and called for a recalibration of the international system. and he asked for support, support against would back. that was a powerful neighbor flexing his muscles. the fact that days later russia launched a full scale invasion of his country approved him writes, and in the year since the international order has been widely up, ended on fridays. lensky joined the convention virtually renewing his plea for support and appealing to all those or taking their time to ponder, saying that there was not

a 2nd to lose bleached polanski set the tone comparing ukraine's fight against russia to david and goliath. he will definitely fall already this year. we can make it all of us together. just as david deed, we can make sure that there is no alternative to our week to re ukraine's president urged western leaders to act quickly. we need to hurry up, we need the speed, speed of our agreements, speed of our delivery to strengthen our sling. speed of decisions to limit ration potential was lewinsky pushed for speed. german chancellor, all of sholtes argued for caution the by losses. we will continue to maintain the balance between providing the best possible support to ukraine and avoiding an unwanted escalation but shorter, also challenged western countries to deliver on promised weapons that to this means

that every one who can supply these battle tanks should actually do so. now, french president, emanuel microns packing for ukraine remains firm nudism absolutely more at thus, if he not, we must absolutely intensify our support for the resistance of the ukrainian people, appropriate law, me and army for leading the counter offensive. which alone will enable credible negotiations under the conditions chosen by ukraine. h authorities, its people ha, lieutenants is authority, isn't book secret group with a formal stage set, talks between western allies, began in earnest offstage. with the next step to bolster ukraine against russia's illegal war are being decided. and i'd like to welcome now congressman adam smith at the munich security conference. he is a democratic leader of the armed services committee in the us house of representatives. congress. no, welcome to the day and thank you so much for taking the time. the biggest topic

there in munich is, of course, the war in ukraine. in your opinion, how much has the world changed since russia's full scale invasion? was changed dramatically because we've been talking to her room, gosh, for a decade about the threat from russia and also the threat from china and as china has become more focused on, on taiwan. it's that whole package and what the russian invasion of ukraine did is it woke all of us up to the fact that this was a reality. ah, no, we tried in a variety for ways over the last decade to, to move russia in a different direction. but when the war came, it changed all that, and you've seen the way, you know, nato and a number of other countries have responded by coming together quickly to support ukraine. so i would say that the world has changed about as much as we could have. imagine it would from one year to the next. where do you think we would be to day of joe biden? hadn't won the presidency. but i have enough trouble with that. with

reality, engaging in hypotheticals is, is, is difficult, but certainly in our president trump never express support for nato in the way the president biden has. and we're present brighton really brings is just a wealth of experience in a wealth of relationships having been involved in public service at a very high level for gosh, 50 years now. as the chairman of the foreign relations committee as vice president, he had the relationships in the connections and the team secretary blanket and secretary austin. that could bring together this coalition. that could be a real, real leader in getting us to work together to help defend ukraine against russia. so president biden is that a great job pulling not together, and we are certainly better off having him as president during this moment of crisis loud question. i want to talk about germany's role and for bearing weapons for ukraine. how much does the perception that berlin has been somewhat hesitant in its military support, make it harder for people like you to make the case that the u. s. should commit so much to keep well,

i think the chancellor has taken the right approach on this and he, he said what has been the stated goal from president biden and from the coalition from the start? look, we have, we have 3 clear objectives and we've never wavered on this. number one, there must be a sovereign democratic ukraine. we must help ukraine when back as much of their territory as possible. but number 2, we cannot have a direct conflict between the u. s. war need, or any nato country, and russia. and number 3, we want this to be a strategic failure for russia. we want russia to be weaker at the end of this than they were at the start. and all 3 of those goals are important. we cannot stumble into a conflict with russia, and we have to convince the whole coalition is $54.00 countries at this point. they all have different interest, different perspectives. pulling them along, it takes, takes a little bit of time and i think under the circumstances we've done it very, very quickly. and germany has been a key partner in making that happen. certainly most recently with their decision to

a single upper tanks and crucially to allow other countries that have lepper tanks on to send them to you crime. so this isn't an easy thing to do, but i think the chancellor is, is hitting it about right. yeah. you were in favor of transferring tanks to ukraine, but the head of the munich security conference cuz of course, can send in an interview this week that the u. s. government was, and i'm quoting him here, forced to do something, namely providing and one abrams tanks and didn't want to do what do you say to that? well, that's not correct actually, because what people have to remember is, is a whole bunch of things to balance here. in terms of what we try to get to ukraine, certainly a consideration is, is this going to be escal atory? is it going to potentially bring the u. s. or nato in con, for with russia? the other considerations are, you know, do we have the equipment and will that equipment be useful? and this is the crucial part of the abrams tank, that people don't appreciate the fuel that it you that it uses and the supply chain

too is required. makes it very difficult to see how it is going to work effectively quickly in ukraine. we're gonna have to build up all manner of supply chain to get this very specific fuel that it uses. and to make sure that maintenance is, is going to be possible. it doesn't do us any good to send tanks to ukraine that aren't going to be able to have any fuel and that aren't going to be able to be maintained in the field. the reluctance on the m from abrams was about that the leopard was the better solution. it's here, it's easier to use in, in that particular theater. so, you know, we worked, dryden is something we didn't want to do. we were simply looking at what was practically in the best interests of ukraine. now, germany was reluctant to lead on this. they were reluctant for obvious historical reasons. you know, to how have german tanks, a new crime. they wanted the us to make it clear that we supported this movie and it was sort of working out that little dance of differences there, that, that took the time to get us there. but everyone wanted to get the tanks and keep in mind the u. s. has also been sending bradley fighting vehicles and strikers

a to you for and already because those are vehicles that can be effectively operated in ukraine. so that's what this was about. got to have effective weapon systems, not just weapon systems that people are clamoring for us to send. the republicans have a majority in the house. now you are well aware of that. can you reassure a key that us support for them will not waiver, given the questioning of ukraine ain't among certain parts of the g o p. yeah, absolutely. i mean, 1st of all, we passed a robust package in the last congress in december before we were, we were taken out of power in the house. so there is a lot of money coming that $45000000.00 is going to last for a while. second, you know, here at this conference we have chairman mike turner, chairman of the house intelligence committee, mike recall's, chairman of sinner, foreign relations committee, mike rogers, who took my job as chairman of the house armed services committee isn't here. but

all of them are enthusiastic supporters of ukraine. they, they have caught, consistently been calling for more weapons to get to ukraine faster. the overwhelming majority of the republican conference in the house supports backing ukraine. so there is wide bipartisan support in the u. s. where you frame and that will not wave. i want to talk about china to a country you say poses the greatest threat to the us national security objectives . can you explain why you see beijing as the bigger threat than the man in the kremlin, who essentially put us on the brink of world war 3? what's easiest way to think about this and it's a, it's a close call. i mean, both russia and china, post threats, but really the that the threat environment as we talked about in the house armed services committee, is china, russia, iran, north korea, and trans national terrorist organizations. and they all have, well, a couple of things in common, but the big one is they want to break down the international rules based order. they want to make the world safe for bullying autocracy. and one of the key goals

in that is to push the us out of the world. whether it's ron wanting to push us out in the least russia wanting to push us out of eastern europe, china wanting to push us out of asia, because they know that our presence and most importantly the coalition that comes with us, the allies and partners that we have will make it impossible for them to bully their way to the autocratic vision that they have. but they all share that vision and they all pose a threat. not in that way. the reason the china, in most people's minds and mine included, is slightly greater than russia is because china is an economic power. they are the 2nd largest economy in the world. they are the largest market in the world. that economic power makes them more of a threat. now, i say it's a close call, because at the moment, avia slee, russia is not just a theoretical threat. they're doing it in, in the most blatant violent, destructive way possible with their invasion of ukraine. china certainly is infringing upon sovereignty in a number of different ways across the world,

but they've not yet launched a full scale military war. the reason we worry about the more is because of their size and their economic might. we have to find a way to get china to choose a different path, to somehow integrate china better into that world order, so that they don't go the direction that russia alternately went in ukraine. it, let me ask you to what extent the u. s. responds in ukraine is also then a message towards china. oh, absolutely. i mean, what happens in ukraine is incredibly important for a number of reasons. not the least of which is as ukrainian people deserve a sovereign democratic state and to live in peace. putin and russia are utterly terrorizing, that population as has been well documented. and we need to make that stop. but it is also important because it sends a signal to china. you know, in china gets the message that this type of bullying military approach to solving

your problems will not work as an entirely and is entirely too costly. that's why that 3rd goal that i mentioned earlier about russia seeing this as a strategic failure and ultimately being weaker for having done it. is sir crucial because president she is watching. and if, if russia just marched in there and succeeded, it would send a message to him that he could do the same with russia flailing as they are right now. that since the opposite message and makes it more likely that president, she and china will look for more peaceful ways to interact with the rest of the world. so it's crucial to, to that issue as well as to ukraine itself. at the alleged chinese 5 alone became a major diplomatic issue over recent weeks. some say at the end of the day this was a rather trivial issue compared to other fence post by beijing. what do you say? was it an out of proportion? oh, he was unquestionably blown out of proportion, no pun intended. now everyone became obsessed over it. is it a serious issue? yes. and we have to be careful about how china is attempting to spy on us,

but it just became such a fascination for everybody that i think it did get blown out of proportion compared to other issues. like what, what the whole world knows is major powers spy on each other. okay. we spy on china, china spies on us. this was a particularly reckless and brighton way of doing it. and something that the u. s. definitely has to stand up against. no question. that this is a threat to us sovereignty, if, if china can send this type of well balloon over across the united states, we needed to stand up against it. but you know, it's not as big a crisis as what's going on in the taiwan strait or what china is doing and a bunch of other places. so yes, it got overblown. it was serious a, something that we had to pay attention to. but something that i'm quite confident that we can deal with. we've seen new defense steals, involving the us with the philippines and japan, philippines are eyeing a trilateral alliance there as well. it can, the u. s. friends in china?

is that the plan? well, that's not the way i would put it the way i would put it is we want to deter china from using military aggression to advance their aims. we're not gonna fence in china again. second largest economy in the world, world's largest market, their low largest trading partner for, for gosh, dozens of different countries. china is going to be a major factor on the global stage for decades, probably longer. the question is, how do they be that global player? do they do it through military bullying or they do it in a more cooperative way. and one of the ways to push them in that more positive direction is to deter them militarily and partnerships with japan. the philippines, australia are a key part of that. and it also what, what japan, the philippines and australian others have been doing out region, really speaks to how china has overplayed their hand. those countries, you know, they were trying basically simply to exist in the world. and they did business with

china, but china became so aggressive in so bullying towards them that they looked for partners in the us and others as a sort of a hedge against chinese aggression. so i think the goal here is deter china so that they will interact with the rest of the world through peaceful needs, through international or coalitions and different organizations to resolve their differences in part of that is being strong enough to, to make it clear that they cannot succeed militarily. japan and the philippines are key partners in doing that. we only have a couple of seconds left, but i do want to get maybe a one word answer if you can, what would be the goal and us china relations bilaterally to peacefully co exist. that's not one word, but that's the best i could do. ultimately, that is the goal, peaceful coexistence in the world. that's as like the grant go adam smith, he's the democratic leader of the house armed services services committee. joining us tonight for munich. pleasure speaking to you, congressman. thank you so much for your time. thank you.

lou. to tennessee, anal where a wave of raise and arrest as drawing international condemnation. and the past week authorities have jailed a number of people with links to the opposition or critics of president ice. i in among them are prominent politicians, 2 judges, a trade union leader, and the head of tennessee as main, independent news outlet. on thursday, dozens of journalists and rights activists took to the streets in the capital tune as to protest against the arrest of normandy in blue. tar is the director of the private radio station mosaic f. m. the outlet has often been critical of presidents i it, and 2021. the president sacked the government, froze parliament and seized almost total power in what his rivals, this time as a clue. now on friday, in germany added it's voice to international criticism of this crime down berlin called for to nicea to respect democratic principles and backed a u. n. call for the independence of the judiciary. here's

a german government spokesman buff conditioner. the bonus again, was it because of the german guzman views with great concern that many representatives of the church is in opposition. politicians, journalists, and activists have been arrested in recent days, democratic democratic principles of freedom, of expression and political diversity as well as the rule of law must apply in a democratic country like julia and get the photo we share the call of the united nations high commission of human rights, falcon turk, for fair trials under the rule of law, and for the independence of the judiciary. title view to shanisha is in a difficult economic and social situation. and we do not want to leave to turn this in. people alone would help overcome the challenges hospital in whitehall in our view, the best way out of the crisis is name of program chinese. you should conclude that quickly. hills to newson is altered use of seasons. i can now speak to sarah. yes, she's a senior fellow at the middle east program at the carnegie endowment for international

peace. she joins us from washington at good to see. so what's behind this wave of arrests? i think what we're seeing is an escalation in case aid's attack on tenicia democracy . he clearly is nervous. he's seen that his poll numbers aren't great. the last couple of elections that he's held, the numbers have just been dramatically low. it only 11 percent of the population showing up. so i think this just as a sign that he doesn't know what to do next. he's trying to round up all the opposition, people from all over the political spectrum in order to prevent anyone from being able to really counter to nicea is in deep economic turmoil. and needs and i am asked bail out given the international criticism of science repression, especially coming out of the u. s. will these arrests weaken the government's position and forging a deal? it is really bad timing on faith part in that he is actively trying to court the international community, including the united states and europe. in order to back this, i must deal the mass has indefinitely postpone their decision their vote on this

deal. and so the fact that you would go ahead and take these measures that you knew would likely get the wrath of the international community. this is really poor plane on a park. on the other hand, as we heard from the, the german statement, you know, the international community is aware that this i am, i feel really needs to happen. and so i do think it will happen eventually. but i don't think that action lately are gonna help speed that process along. how closes the country to complete economic collapse. very close to the numbers that are coming out of the news every day or just worse and worse, the shelves are empty and the grocery stores inflation is really through the roof. unemployment is through the roof. you know, people, even middle class people are having a really hard time making and need and feeding themselves in their families. and there is no one that's coming to teenagers rescued. neither has looked to the gulf at times to try to help build about no one. so far has stepped up to help, which is why this i am f deals crucial, but that i'm still not going to put food on the table either. so. so i need to do

a better job of actually courting international community and doing things that will earn the faith of the private sector and bring donors and bring private sector companies back to teacher. is there any sign he wouldn't have any intention of doing that because it seems like the opposite of the case right now. yeah, he unfortunately does not have any real economic expertise. he does not have a good group of advisors around him. he has been just really a 100 percent narrowly focused on changing the political system. and he's let the country languish for a year and a half. he has the ability to really control all lever the power if he wanted to. he could push through economic reform. you could make some changes that would impact the economy, and instead he's been just pushing through the politics, arresting people, calling people, traders and terrorists, not doing anything to actually help the needs of people. so there is effectively no checks and balances left in the country. exactly how secure

is science grip on power than among the growing discontent and the criticism that is pouring in from the international community. so one of the, the sort of interesting pieces of these latest the rest, the rest have been of people again across the political spectrum. he had been primarily targeting enough that isn't a party before. now he's taken people on the left, he's arrested the head of the private radio station. you know, he has ineffective managed to unify the opposition so far. even though many, many people have been through his what he's been doing and realize he's not actually helping tunisia. the opposition has failed to unite. they've been very, very divided amongst their own political challenges and issues. but what he may end up doing, ironically, by rounding up people from all different sides, the public spectrum is creating this common enemy. and we've yet to see that coalesce, but it would not be surprising if you start to see some of the opposition realize

look, we're all of this together. we need to unite to go against him. at the same time he does control all the lever, the power he so far has been really guardy himself and sort of protect itself with the military, with the security services. so, so far he is, he still does have a very strong fun power, but that public discontent has brought on leaders and teacher before and it wouldn't be surprised if it does to him as well down the road. how much is the crisis in the country and science, authoritarian tendencies, driving to museums to seek better lives elsewhere? it's a major factor. i mean, we've seen the numbers of 2 years, even before i fade school, we've seen the numbers of tunisia and trying to leave and get on boats to go to italy. just really increase. we also see a lot of brain drain, you know, technician to go to europe, the united states, to canada, in order to study or to work. can you just don't want to be into use any more between be the drastic economic situation as well as the political instability that they are? you know, a lot of people just don't feel like the country like the government is delivering

for them. we have seen really dramatic increases and migration over the past couple of years and years from the carnegie endowment for international peace. thank you so much for coming on to the so today. thank you so much. that's our time. we'll be back next week, but make sure to stay engaged. stay in touch, follow our team on twitter and d, w. news and myself. nicole underscore early for now though from the entire team here on the day. thank you so much for spending part of your day with

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