trends 2020 the roads, you know, platforms on d w. so i was just rescuing deduct from a farm. this one the study globally. i found it like this and i couldn't just leave it there. should meet. 2 with this is such a great burden. it was so dirty it and cleaning it, turn the entire bathroom into a matt. this is the water birds 1st swelled one of the most beautiful moments i've ever experienced. that a trip with a donkey series about our complex relationship with animals. well, i think i will live long enough to witness the end of factory farming. the great eat debate this week on d. w, or as

the war intensifies in ukraine concrete zone. is that the munich security conference to ask what the next for ukraine fritz, how life i'm for moscow? just how secure is western support for care is nato in danger of packing down in the face of nuclear blackmail from moscow. and how might this war finally come to an end? in the last week, nato has wrung a very loud alarm bell, president putin. it said is preparing for more war just as the west seems to be running out of the ammunition and weapons that key if urgently needs. so, just how dangerous is the current situation? where might be conflict? go from here. to discuss these questions, i'm joined by senior political figures from across the west of alliance mateusz, more of yet skis, prime minister of poland, kathleen colonna, whose and minister france alexander co broke off is ukrainian deputy prime minister

for restoration. and mitch mcconnell, republican senator, for the state of kentucky and senate minority leader, i gary, also the longest serving senate party leader in u. s. history alexander cobra cove. let me start with you. we had a very impassioned plea from president zalinski today to speed up, arms supplies, speed up, weapons deliveries. how critical is the situation? i think station is always critical and i think our, our wife gave mistake. but if you asked me what i'd like to change, i think 1st of all, bill was like trying to catch up rush in some way. if it's an up agenda. one situation become critical receive and until like i'm on the receiving the feel it later standard 155. and then again, we're trying to teach up and receive an edit defense. samsung. i think the

president absolutely right. when his train 3 is trying to say the speed is critical because during the speed of the fan 1000000000 people our, our best people as he said, live dependence on speed. absolutely. right. just 2 examples. if questions regarding flight and just to complicate the critical but why we can start putting in program for our pilots at this moment to be a strong signal for rations for everybody. again, more complicated questions. russians, they usually each day class that i'm one using force for some nation each day. again, it's complicated, but our people then in bottled and almost you cannot resist this to the someone you sent to the paper from when you why we can use it. i mean, it's our data, understand how it's complicated over conventions, but we can use to receive them on our data to do to use such i'm when you send our

complex life us my now as a company we have millions of rounds of such type. why would a and again, we will wait, wait, wait, and firm in one day probably we will receive such type of news. but again, the lesson is with a 1000 times thousands of people in time to add to the sense of alarm. the washington post reported this week to the senior us administration. official had raised the issue of limits to what america can supply for this war. we will continue said the official to impress on the ukrainians. we can't do anything and everything for ever. do you find that worrying? i think right, well like technically limitations and the terms of future order. thousands of 1000 rounds they use in each day and we are receiving more from another side from rational side because they have future to do. they have iran on their side, they have some other candidates, they can use the money,

they prepare it to this for for many years. so we can assume that probably from technical limitations, but i don't believe and said i still, i still believe that our life us older but from that, but in order to provide the required williams mateusz more of the sky scene for more so it does the west does nato have the will and right now the capacity to give you what it needs to win? what i hope so by the way, done by this logic of you know, we've given enough and then let ukrainians do their job well, they're actually dying on the front line and they are doing this for their own sovereignty and freedom, but also for our security and peace in europe, so if we want to have, and we do want to have all of us to create

a long lasting development, climate and peace. we have to change the logic. we cannot say, well, the ukraine cannot be defeated and russia cannot win this war. that this is wrong, we have to say, russia must lose this war, and ukraine must win this war. because that's a, that's, that's, that's a change of mind. you ask about the united states. well like if united states want to stay a superpower and they already are friends from america already and counted some defeat in gunnison, they cannot allow for. ready another defeating failure in ukraine. so i think that ukraine, young ukraine, soldiers, and government presidents could they are doing all possible to,

to win this war. and we have to do all of our and to support your trying to win this war. will you supply the f? 16 fighters? i got your president isn't to have we have pretty few of them. we have not. not too many of them, but we, we did. we do agree on delivering jet fighters, other type of jeff to find or 3 the which are in our position. together with the other parts of natal decision, by the way, poland deliver to ready to come to the 50 tanks. and on top of those, we are going, going to deliver 60 quite mother nice tanks. and on top of this pyramid, we're going to deliver 14 lippard tanks. so probably the highest, the biggest numbers of arm v cars and tanks. ready was delivered from poland. kathleen collar. now how long do you think the west can continue to supply ukraine at current and projected levels for ammunition and weapons as long as it

takes would be my ok. so you have to call today saying that we would like to see this will going on for so long, but we are ready to support a plan as long as it took so long as it takes it to do what this is not to do. what we're doing that when that has defeating russian aggression is probably critical. what the prime minister side and doing what we've during since raphael's day, helping to clean those by the can we were giving him and tell you name it now so many aspects and military and we just decided altogether to do more and to do it swiftly. so we can really be side by side with the current. so again, not only resist this aggression but succeed in the military search we expect to see in the near future. however long that may take, i don't know. no,

i'm sorry, your commitment is for however long that may to yes, because there's no end point to that. as far as you're concerned. mitch mcconnell, when president biden says the u. s. will stay the course with ukraine. what do you take that to mean? well 1st i don't know who that quote was that you started this discussion was from the washington post, but that's obviously a person who doesn't know what they're talking about. so let me just tell you what the people who are actually elected office and who actually becca decisions about how long america is committed to this. think russia has to lose and ukraine. and we can't put a time limit on it. but the one thing we can do to address the problem that was raised by our friend from ukraine. speed up the decision making,

get the weapons there quicker. the whole defense production throughout nato is under stress. there's no question about we're providing a lot more ammunition and weapon systems and we were anticipating but we need to speed it up to cut through the bureaucracy. get you the weapons you need as soon as you need them. so you can, when the war show, as far as i'm concerned, and i think i can speak pretty thoroughly for most of the members of my party in congress, were in this to win because losing is not an option. imagine how much it would cost all of us, all of us it russia want. and what about the implications in the far east when prime ministry, japan said the single most important thing you can do to send a message, a president, she is a b, and then ukraine. you know that this has worldwide implications. so we need to

change our thinking. bob gates, who is one of the great secretaries of defense in the united states. i served under both bush and obama, said that after the cold war, we all took a holiday from history without we're never going to have evil on full display. again, everything should be just fine. well, evil is back and peace through strength is the only way to deal, and i don't know what the present but with the future. can we talk? can we talk a little bit about the prospects one day of peace negotiations? the cobra of president zelinski says this war will end only when all russian forces leave ukraine when your territorial integrity is restored. the special tribunal is set up to try russians accused of war crimes. do you think that president putin will ever agree to those conditions?

i think it doesn't matter whether he real or not. i think we have to deal with that. if we have to restore our bullet or we have to bring them a left, our country doesn't matter who put in or not put in a little bit. somebody instead of him with have to blow a joke as well as the capitals. but you're saying there will be no diplomacy and being this war, this verse war ends on the battlefield starter just as far as you can. so catherine calona, should the ukraine be fighting and talking peace at the same time? was that possible? not for the time being. now there is a road to peace and presidency as always been looking for the log and looking for peace, including recently. but us,

at the 1st time he's talking about daylight and peace included with the tank point piece point presented at the g 20 in november. and there were 2 piece according to me is paved with a few my stows. the 1st one is unity. and it is important that from this conference comes a message of unity, unity and determination to go on as long as needed. a 2nd, we must, may, presumptive realised that it did make a mistake. this happens, it did make a blatant mistake. things didn't work the way you saw the wood care didn't fall in 48 hours, a kind was about to buy control from your son. and again and again. and net was about to be enlarged. the europe as have been united, i could go on with a long list. and thirdly, we asked to make clear that there would be something after the war. and i think

that kind of looking for it. but the precondition to that is for this aggression to be defeated, there's a precondition to any possible in evolution to a 2nd phase. there will be a 2nd phase war do an always by we still unfortunately the 1st phase where there must be something visible. so hopefully a 2nd base can be started. mitch mcconnell, the chair of the u. s. joint chiefs general mark, milly said just last week that he still believes this war will end at the negotiating table with neither side likely to achieve their military aims. how widely do you think that view is shared in washington? well, it's always difficult to predict exactly how it was going to end. what we have here is a clear case of one country and waiting another and until the ukrainians

have a contrary view. my view as they ought to determine on what terms the war ends and at least get them so far. what i hear you saying, and what i hear you are president say is that when you get your country back at 200 and so i don't think we ought to be negotiating a solution for the ukrainians that they may not be able to live with. i think our goal particularly immediately get them what they need, get it to them as rapidly as possible and give them every chance to win. and the ukranian stay in the driving seat when the negotiations start. if the negotiations time. look, i think the definition of victory ought to be left up to those who are affected but the most. in other words, i'm not in favor of all of us ganging up and forcing a solution onto the ukrainians that they may not be able to live with. so we have

to focus on right now, getting them what they need to win, divide the cash, whatever the sky zelinski is putting demands on the table. we mentioned some of them from poems vantage point of a realizable, i believe. so i think things which were beyond the imagination of the beginning of the war, started to be real. i realize they will do it doable. at the beginning of the war, there were countries hesitating the se, sending helmets or, or bullet, proof vests to, to ukraine. then we sent the armored vehicles and then left part tanks and the pottery patriot systems are now in the ukraine. and now we talk and you asked me about fighter jets. so i think that everything is possible. and even

you know, the, the, i can imagine that the actual race, accelerated path for you train to, to the european union is also very important for a requisite for, for not only keeping cap hopes for the nation and soldiers. but also providing ukraine with a longer term strategy and vision of ukraine being part of the european union. so yes, and while i was on the eco senator said about the potential scenario. so getting out of this war, this is all apt to ukraine. how to define victor, victor, in how to define the scenario of peace. you, you talked about ukraine's application to join the you and, and it was to join nato as well. of course this, do you think these applications should be fast tracked? i think so. well, like what we, if we want, if we want to be part of

a stable system of free world and europe in particular, we don't want to ukraine to be a buffer zone zone, a clash between different systems. and for this to happen, we need ukraine as part of european union and as part of nato eventually as well. and from our point of view of the creek, the better during the visit last week to brussels. president lansky told the european council president shall, michelle, he wanted accession talks to open this year, saying it would motivate the country in the army this year shall. when i say this year, i mean this year 2023 cutting color the message get through the message is getting so the reality will be that the commission will make as it is planned and agreed. and assessment is praying then delivering to paper this fall and that we shall see. we really opened the door to the air recognition of

the status of it being candidate to a clan. i think trans played a key role then and forgive me for remaining that we were chairing the rotating presidency of the council of the you present on my call traveled to keith does a few days before the commission delivered his opinion on that accession. then we have to follow the pass. it is a non meric based pass, i think because i was liskey and knowledge that refers must be done and that we shall see down the road. what this assessment will be in the fall and see from that was a, this could take years through so on out, you know, depending on the marriage is the only rule we have to follow. but doesn't it bother you at all that while the, you acknowledges that ukraine is fighting and dying for things that europe believes in,

at the same time it's telling present the landscape that's all very well. but we have our rules, enough bureaucracy and you have to follow that ukraine is fighting a superpower for its very survival. shouldn't get fast track membership just for that. it's not for everything else. forgive me to disagree with you. it has nothing to do is bureaucracy. and everything to do with accession process that everybody's aware of. and that means that the country wanted join our most welcome to join. and we did open the door or repeat, asked to do what is necessary to come closer to us and then join. everybody knows that this is the rule of the game, mr. maria ski wanted what i lose my. i think that we, we now observe completely in your situation around us. there was no and a full scale war, sees the end of the 2nd world war in europe. and this should lead us to think out of the box. and here there is a lot of red tape,

lots of red tape in brussels and you know, business issues, what type of considerations with regards to the accession process. whereas i do believe that we have to be brief. today, we have to go on this accelerated path because things which are happening can ukraine of our, of extraordinary nature, what is happening there will shape the future of europe for, for decades. and we cannot pretend that this is norma conflict us. many of them were before in europe. this is why i was happy, like i was saying in march that let's give candidate status for ukraine, which several countries set definitely not over. might that, but hopefully it happens thereafter quite soon, because in june 2022 we have accepted the section. this candidates,

how did they start to status? but today we need to have a very accelerated path. mitch mcconnell, what about ukraine joining nato? should that be an accelerated past job one is you went to warm and let's go back to the point. you know, this has implications far beyond the current conflict. huge implications in asia. we all know the p r c covets taiwan. so just for a moment, let's take a look at asia our secretary defenses. recently in the philippines, negotiating new arrangements with them. the japanese, much like the germans, have completely changed their post forward to view of the role that they ought to play in the world. in a positive direction,

almost like an unofficial member of nato out out in asia. so the safe or, or even beyond just europe. and even beyond just the future of your country. this has to do with standing up a mechanism, an alliance to deal with the biggest threats we have. and they're basically china and russia talking of high stakes putin as already russell. the keys of is nuclear missiles in the west has stepped back, anxious not to escalate the war and push boot and into pressing the button. has it been right to do that? is that not giving into nuclear black male? well, how many times the threatened to do things since the war began, you can't make the ukrainian strategy, or the nato strategy dependent about what click potent claims he might do. and he's

determining how that war is conducted. i think we're with all due respect, all of these hypothetical or interesting discussions. but for those of us who are actually voting on these matters, i think we need to focus like a laser on what's needed right now. and it's getting your great answer weapons i need as rapidly as they can, because winning is the answer to this winning is the answer very briefly, because we're running out of time. can we just look to the future cutscene color? now how does france think this war will end? how? yeah, by a discussion. whenever you kind is ready, all the terms the clan decided to put on the table. and we are here to help kind of be in that situation where all of us can envisage that we reach that size,

where new cycle begins the page. but in order to have that political perspective, strengths is needed, strength is needed. and this is lois speeding up what we're doing. we need to deliver what we have to deliver swiftly. and we need to focus on those elements that nice. i mostly for the time being the correct me if i'm wrong. artillery, i munitions, and defense. the debate about the rest can be there, it is not exactly what you need full time, and we need to be there in due time. so the can build on what that will help we give that message research that might change the focus and my change maybe the view that mr. put in, has a reason situation or a poland warned for years about russia's aggressive intentions and no one listened in your view has moscow's appetite for expansion. been sated or stimulated by the

experience in ukraine is put in still a threat to opponent the baltic states. absolutely. so it depends. the answer is it depends on the outcome of this, of this work. we want to hope for the best, which is a rapid defeat of russian truth. not. we have to be patient, we have to count with long lasting conflict. and this is why i'm a bit unhappy when i hear voices off, you know, calls for quick negotiation process to be finalized by ukraine. they know best what it, what it means for their future. but i, i believe that the public opinion in russia is different than our public opinion for it is different and they have lots of patients. we have to have lots of patients in terms of this conflict. unfortunately, this means that for

a longer term, we have to be able to deliver weapon and more width and more supply, more humanitarian aid. this is what would be my my thinking in the near future. alexander co broke off. what kind of ukraine do you see emerging from this war? when it finishes? i think 1st of all we need to windows 4. we have, we have split a complicated when our people suffered and, but again, i'd like to be mindful of all the, regarding the negotiations. we already have this experience that we will use to be taught to be the strength of the adamant to produce more rounds on and to start again. so we won't agree, and we have all researches also with their showings, with 90 plus percent of what people read again to fight to feel then before we before interval after after the war we will be will be part of european union. and

i think our army will be one of the most brilliant and strongest that which will be part of nathan after the war. and you think you think you'll be living in a much more dangerous world next to russia after this. i hope that that will be different for his bids and other people in russia. i mean, right. run in russia for i thank you very much indeed. and we're going to close that part of the discussion. now i will take will take some questions. i think the swedish defense minister has a has a question. if we can get a microphone to him, please. thank you very much and thank you for fascinating discussion, sweetness currently holding the presidency, rest assure our top priority. see says support for your brain. economic, political monitor and militarily, now i have a question for, for the prime minister of poland. thank you for your leadership in supporting

ukraine and also for hosting the training mission that you man, ukraine. that's good. now the challenge we have is that we're all digging deep into our stockpiles and our military resources are not unlimited. so i'm wondering how potently, thinking about how when, when you come there be replacing the military capabilities that you're sending to you right now due to the pressure on the european defense industrial base. thank you. well, like the thing, thank you for this question. first, let me express my happiness from the point of view of sweden and finland joining nato. that's quite a change for nato. it's, it's put in with not expect the attack that i think they will, but, you know, that's, that's, that's quite a change from the point of view of all the stockpile and all the weapons which we have delivered. we are changing our industry. we are creating

new technology lines to replace the weapon, which we would have sense to ukraine with new weapon. good example is us crops, which we've sent to ukraine. they are very good on the battlefield and we have our salary to production of them domestically. we are buying new ones from south korea and we have put even more orders in the united states companies to deliver hi, maurice and other other type of weapon. but all in all, i know. ready shortages of munitions, shortages of lots of weapon. and this is why collectively in europe and in the united states and in japan and the other 3 world countries we, there's lots of, you know, waking up from the political slumber and creating new options

. new possibilities to produce more. i'm a nation, reach us, your weapon of different kinds and this is what we are doing. and we got some cap feelers of on a replacing this type of weapon which we've sent to ukraine. i have this is race with time to some extent, so it's a challenge. it's a challenge for, for poland as well. but we do want to be generous and quick in delivering weapon to ukraine because this is where the fight now happens. here. the questions 30 here in the front in the front. thank. thank you. could find some european council on foreign relations. i'd love to take a little bit deeper into this question of you accession, because prime minister, you said we should be brave. this shouldn't be business as usual. well, i understand that this isn't about the commission picking up the phone quick more

quickly and answering to emails quick more quickly. so this is about real concessions in the accession process, right. could you point to things that we, in your opinion could actually do without and could abandon i've, what are, what are the compromises that you would really need to make on the kind of accession steps because you know, as the front front for mr. pointed out, there are, there are certain rules and there are certain chapters that money to open into place. so what exactly are you pointing at that we could do without thank you. your kindness fighting today for the most critical, most important values, european values, free world values like freedom, independence, right, to live and those type of values. so we cannot confront this. what is happening in the ukraine. we the normal or almost normal process of accession. either we start

thinking in a, in a new way out of books these times are, it will live live through the turning moment in history. and we have to change it almost everything in europe. we have to therefore, create new process for ukraine. accelerated path is synonym for this, but what, what, what made look like i'm, i'm not so sure i'm, if you ask me if i was in favor of abandoning the normal roots on to accession. my answer is yes. of course. yes. because the what is happening before our is this is something called completely on strategic and extraordinary. and we cannot let this country ah negotiated as if it was a normal. i'm a candidate, a. ready european union just i am an addition maybe to why the prime minister said,

i think it is out of scope and out of reach to abandon, you know, a precondition. and he says it in scale would support me in saying that reform is needed, whether it is, you know, the legal system, that gestures judicial forgiveness system or the fight against corruption. somebody thinks. so the question is not so much to lower the level and do i sort of a mini accession, but i'm happy when i am in agreement with the premier south talent to do what he just said we should do. and when you are not doing that is accelerate, help, you know, had the kind to come and join us as well. and this is partly what we're doing with the european political community in the 1st meeting was in october. the 2nd meeting would be in june in of java. and part of the idea is not to be

a group of $44.00 countries. and the look at the map is interesting. but to design some programs, that could be exit writers or, you know, pre accession programs or whether it is energy transform. so you know things and this is a big way to help. and i think this is part of the reasons why you come from the very 1st day supported that idea. your reaction to that. i think we're, we're in the very complicated. we are in parallel, fightin aah! on battlefield to his russian. and trying to implement it in the warehouse, just be the just all of the city forms. ah, and the, and the sink i, i hope that in relation to this here will be positive and we will open this pros ah, how question to mitch mcconnell ah, mathematically, our military already defined jacklewitz,

american partners and other partners. what is needed for you claim to wing? what kind of equipment is needed to win? and militarily, it is important to have modern fighter jets without modified to jack fighter jets be, are not able to win. and without taking back crimea, we are not able to win and absolute majority of ukrainians, one to get crimea back. moreover, world foot security depends on capacity of ukraine to get back crania and unblock black supports. so it's the fake not only of ukraine, but of 350000000 people who are in hunger. however, in use, we are hearing that president biden said no to f. 16. and there were publications no to ukrainian military, even thinking now to take back crimea. when do you think our center this opinion in the u. s. will change? well my answer, as i said earlier,

i think the ukrainians are best able to determine what they can live with. and um, there's no question the crimea bush taken without much of a conflict. but in the end, i think the parties to the war ordered, besides the terms upon which the war and so your grains have to live in ukraine. and as long as you're willing to fight for your country, and it's not costing a single american soldiers live and what we're doing is providing listen to the money that we've sent to you so far. is point o 2 percent of our g d p, about gdp in order to give you a chance to live in freedom and to prevent the russians from being emboldened

by a successful outcome in ukraine. which further emboldened the chinese which are an enormous threat to us and to all of you. so i'm not here to dictate the terms open, which this audit and i think that's up to you and your government to determine what you can live with. and the end question was also by the f sixteens. why don't give them the f sixteens if it up to me, i would, i would. yeah, thank you very much. my name is alina point, cova, i'm the president and ceo of the center for european policy analysis in washington . thank you for everyone's comments and thank you prime minister for, for your leadership. what concerns me is that i don't hear the western alliance speaking in one voice. i've heard the prime minister say that our goal or policy is

to when i've heard the center say that we need to aim to win. i don't hear that clarity from a lot of other allies in those direct terms. and i think what we see now as a result of that and beauty is that we haven't actually given you crane what needs to win. but we're telling them we want you to win. but we're not going to give you patriots because it's escalate tory in march for 90 more. we're not going to give you hi mars because it's escal, a tory be anywhere but not anymore. so i don't see what our actual policy is, not a polish policy. but what is the western vision for ukraine and why can we not hear every single ally say our goal is to win? because if our goal is to win, then we will give you premiums everything they need. now, what we're setting ourselves up now, i'm sorry to use the word is a forever war because we're given them just enough to survive,

but not to win. and i think this is the problem that my ukrainian colleague was pointing to here. so i would like to hear everyone on the panel respond to that to me because i couldn't agree with you more. you've said it better than i could have . they need to be given the weapons they need to win. i think we have all the united states and europe and allies have been all to tentative in reaching decisions that ukraine is the best chance to win, which is what we all want out of some vague notion that we're going to provoke, bladder married, ladies and gentlemen, he's provoked, right? he's provoked and none of these efforts it where we sort of pulled our punches and hope that he would somehow change direction. have had any impact at all. so i agree

with you. i think we ought to be given what they need to win the war as soon as possible when president landscape was in washington press conference with president biden. president biden was asked, why don't you just give the ukrainians the tools to do the job? and he said, i don't know, i've spent hundreds of hours with our allies, and i don't know if we could hold the e, u and nato together. if we did give them those tools quite an admission for, for, for europe. but it seems to me you don't have to be too smart to figure out that we all benefit from these guys, winning and winning quickly. and that's been a problem in my country and other countries in nato. the way to win it quickly, as you suggest, with your question, to give them what they need to want it as soon as possible. so

i couldn't agree more with senator as well. i. my job is also to move the pendulum of imagination of my partners in western europe to persuade them to deliver more. so i think that the quicker and this the sooner and the more we are gonna deliver to ukraine. ready those ukranian soldiers who fight way. ready rely on hearts they are, they are going to prevail eventually. but the modern type of battlefield is requires lots of ammunition artillery. this is by the way, the lesson of this, of this war. and by the way, this point 2 percent, which will spend by the united states, partially, or was spent on american companies producing those weapon, ah, for ukraine as well. so i think this is,

this is all interconnected and with great leadership of the united states i, i do believe that we will be able to deliver enough of weapon in particular hi mars and this type of weapon which is critically important on the battlefield for, for ukrainians the troops to to win gary who are right. i'm afraid we have to leave it there. thank you very much to the panel. thank you. do you deal with julie ride through fascinating worlds into uncharted debs, our guides and know their way around with a strictly scientific trip to some pretty wacky places. curiosity is required, ah, tomorrow today ah,

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what 5th? his subscribe along with business d. w. news alive from berlin, bothered him as a lensky, a gathering of well lead us to speed off arms deliveries to ukraine. ukrainian president tells the munich security conference that they are crucial in stopping rushes, aggression also in the program. a gum battle as a police compound in karachi ends with several people killed off the suicide attack as and to.