about the membership here says it's so vital, my guess is week is covering barley or vice president of the european parliament conflict on d. w. m. what secrets why behind these walls discover new adventures in 360 degrees and explore fascinating world heritage sites. d, w world heritage 360, get out now. you know, the you says it will stand with ukraine for as long as it takes. but as for joining the union, well, there's still a long way to go with the war now and it's 2nd year. what happened to the sense of urgency about membership, the care said with so vital. what about the fund that we're pledged to not delivered? my guess this week is catherine, a barley, a vice president of the european parliament. does the you really want to crate to

when we deliver to ukraine weapons that we don't even have include in our arm yet because they are the most modern of the most modern. and i think that shows that the next man for now b, u is insisting that as well as fighting a war for survival. ukraine must also reform its judiciary and crap found on corruption with the european parliament drowning in the so called kathy gate. lobbying scandal, isn't that just sheer hypocrisy? yes. how long have you officials, themselves been turning a blind eye to rules, ethics, and honesty for catherine, barley, welcome to conflict zoned. thank you very much, jim. despite admitting that ukraine is fighting for western values, fighting and dying for those values, the u. s. poor cold water on p. s. hopes for early accession. you yourself said

recently the country still had a long way to go to join the e. u. i wonder if you can imagine how discouraging that must be to people who don't even know if they'll be alive tomorrow, whether the buildings will still be standing. well, actually the you have acted very, very rapidly. supporting ukraine much more rapidly than we used to actually within 3 days we supported ukraine financially with weapons. what we've never done before, i would sanctions and even when it comes to succession, we made ukraine candidate countries in a and in a speed that was never seen before or and, but we cannot sort of, i mean, it's big country and exceeding that european union is something that we will then altogether have to live or on time so,

so it has to be done. but what you crave wanted, according to august definition. yeah. the president's top official for european integration was to maintain a sense of urgency about ukraine's membership. not delay was not really too much to ask. what we did, as i said, we made mold over and ukraine and session country and candidate country. although they do not fulfill the criteria and they admit this, we have 33 kinds of criteria, political ones like democracy will avoid cetera. you cannot make a one, you have to kind of be able to keep up. you can obviously, and you have to have a certain, you know, a certain degree of confusion in laws. none of them are, are even in sight, ukraine, them and still we made them candidate countries and they, i mean, of course they do demand this in public. but if you told them they appreciate this

very much, because it also goes in line already with financial contribution or will come on to the financial contributions in a minute. but ukraine's foreign minister demitria collabo asked for tangible, practical results from his last meetings in brussels. but you, you failed to give him any so. so let me ask the question on their behalf, is the e you going to open, accession talks this year. ukraine sees absolutely no reason why it shouldn't. as i said, if you talk to ukraine and officials, they know very well, but they have been treated in a way that no other country has been treated before in a very favorable way. and as i said, the support that you is giving ukraine now, and the war is out standing. so i understand that the officials do, you know, keep the pressure up. but there are 2 in when you exceed the

european union, the countries that enter and then the european union has to, you know, be able to take them on board and the ukraine. ukraine has 45000000 inhabitants. it would be the 3rd largest country in the european union. so it's, i mean, it's not something done just a politically, it has to really be, be prepared very carefully. and i'm absolutely positive that the officials understand that perfect. you personally have suggested that foss tracking ukraine would be unfair to of the candidate countries we've had a long wait, i'm sorry, but already of those other countries having their towns and villages bombed by an invading superpower. that women right, that children deported them and tortured and shot in the back of a head in the cause of defending european values. because if and not shouldn't they

perhaps seed their place in the queue to a country that is enduring. all that for the sake of the entire continent, you included, they have a lot of these countries have waited more than 10 years for even becoming a candidate country ball. then i had to go with them. for example, just got this status after after more than a decade. so they, they are seeing this difference as well as we are. and we are acting in that way. but if you look, for example of, nor than most of the don't you know, this country even changed its name, because you have greece guerria who had an issue with, don't have a cold left sedona. and they did this, which is not the same situation as ukraine. of course, no, no, of course it's nothing like a name change is something you do with the stroke of a pen. these people are defending their life and the existence of that country

every single day. look, i can repeat the same, the same fact all over again. what the ukraine is being granted is something that is firstly, has never been done before. and secondly, is something that is being really real seen seeing and rewarded from the show. and thirdly, it can't come goes in line with a support in this war situation that is unprecedented. and i don't know any official from ukraine could not find this. now comparing this to the expression paid on the holcomb and saying look what you have done is what you see. you do it with the you know,

imagine the u. k. a changing its name for whatever reason can you imagine? is that, is that something that goes like this? there is no, i mean, we shouldn't even try to compare the situation of ukraine is completely unique. and we were acting dealing with them according to the situation. and supporting them. all right, let's, let's talk about, let's talk about what support you are giving them back in may the commission president announced the financial assistance package of 9000000000 euros almost half a year later that package remain stuck in arguments between member countries. why was that? well we, we have a system where the member countries are actually the ones because the european union does not have a competence of it going for foreign policy. so it's actually the member states who are, can contributing to, to the aid for ukraine. and i can say from my own country that where we have been

giving, i mean billions for ukraine and a lot of other members have done that to what you are being union as a whole does is add on. i mean, although people sometimes believe that the european union is, is then situation with a whole lot of money to sit on. that's not the case. the budget of the european union, the annual budget is something around 180000000000. now that sounds a lot, but i mean in compared to, to the german budget, for example, it's, it's a small so you have the member said, contributing for ukraine, which they do germany does it prompts the colon baltic states in a very, i think in an admirable manner, i mean, especially the countries that are,

that are close to ukraine, but the delays catarina, by the delays of course, considerable distress to the ukrainians. only gustavo economic adviser to ukraine's president said, our minister of finance is under extreme high pressure when he sends these checks to the military to pension funds. we have to have this money in his hands. so something like a week or several weeks delay is just not acceptable. he's right is need to dangle the offer of aide in front of them and then fail to hand it over in time. is not fair. is it? as far as i know, i mean the, the ukraine has have extremely high cost on all military costs, but also civil call. so they, i mean, they have to pay their, their civil service, for example. so as far as i know, the aid, it's not only your opinion and by the way, but the aid of the international community has always reached ukraine in time to do

so. well, the factor is that more than half of a 30000000000 euros pledged by both the e u and the european investment bank, the biggest share of the west budgetary support still hasn't reached key f. that's 17 and a half 1000000000 out of 30000000000 euros. still not been handed over onto endanger of over promising and under delivering here. now, as i said, the main contributions are being made by, by the member states. and i can only, i mean, i find i've never had a discussion like this. i have to say because, because usually it is being seen as something quite extraordinary. what is happening at the moment and the some that european states and was also the us and others i donating or giving or supporting ukraine with are

absolutely extraordinary. i mean, these are, these are some that these countries, you know, they haven't been there or sitting somewhere waiting for, for, for being transferred to ukraine. so for all of these countries, it is quite an effort and they are doing it. and i think this is actually my some, some respect what janet yellen, us treasury secretary, they said in october, and she hasn't hidden our own in patients with some of the delays and getting money to ukraine. she said, donors need to keep stepping up. the scale, predictability and grant component of disbursement must improve. same thing from jacob care to god from the german marshal fund. he put it even more bluntly said, from the perspective of, of the g 7 members, not least of course the u. s. it's very clear that europe is hedging or is,

as usual, dragging its feet. not quite the picture that you are painting yourself from brussels today. yes, and it's not, it's not the impression i have. i mean, all of these, as i said, all of these countries have to have to mobilize me money, huge amount of money, and they are doing this. i mean, i don't want to talk about my country. let's talk about countries like call them and the small baltic states and see what they are doing on military aid. i mean, i think that we have never done before delivering also military material and delivering money and supporting with, with all sorts of other measures. of course we have to keep doing this and we are very much committed to doing this. and we will. i mean for example, the chancellor has always said that we have to support ukraine as long as it is

needed. and we will just as long as you needed to, to what to when or to survive or what is what, what, what is the limit on this? as long as ukraine is willing to fight, i think that it is up to you crane and un only up to ukraine to decide how and when this, this war, when they take action in this war, when they agree on, on ending this. well, they haven't started it. so they are the only ones who can say this is the point where we are willing to talk, where we are willing to talk about whatever it's only up to them to be fine. but the truth is that the west hasn't given ukraine enough to win, has it ego shatka, g foreign policy adviser to present the landscape? spelt it out very clearly. he said, if we were getting enough support, we would already have won the war and be celebrating victory with you here today.

he has a point, doesn't take all the specs, the class you really want ukraine to win this war. i'm not the military expert. i don't know if you are and i completely understand that the point of presence and then sky and his and his advisors and his government is urging to give more and more and more. and that is, that is of course, completely understandable. but the situation on the battlefield is precarious, isn't it? yes, absolutely. because we deliver to your crane weapons that we don't even have included in our arm yet because they are the most modern of the most modern. and i think this shows the commitments. let's look at what the e u wants from ukraine in terms of reforms high on the list, changes to due digital oversight and a crack down on corruption as

a matter of interest. how much reforming do you think germany would manage if it was being invaded concurrently by russia? it is not the question what there has to be done now. but i have to say, i mean president lend, you really took important measures against corruption during the war because he sees that even during war time therapy, people in ukraine who make profit on this who sell goods forward to higher price who, who buy ukrainian goods for to cheap, so there is corruption in the country and present the landscape just recently. i think a couple of weeks ago took important measures on this. so because it is in the interest of the country also now. but of course, it is not up to us to tell them. now in the situation of war, exact,

you have to do that to shrink. this is, this is something that will, that will be on the table for after the war for the building code test and also for the session. but it is, is ironic, isn't it that corruption measures one of the use key demands of ukraine at exactly the same time as the european parliament is drowning in advance corruption scandal known as catherine gate. this is a, this is a huge blow to the parliament's prestige and it, it is, that's a lovely. but it, that whether it's power, whether politics, unfortunately, there is always a big danger of corruption. and the question is, how do you do, how do you deal with it? i mean, i am up, i have been a fighter for law and against russian for all my not if i'm of course. now people like big or gary and prime minister are are saying exactly this. and i then say, if, if you're corrupt in the european parliament,

you and in front of a judge and in jail, and if you are corrupt and they're very government, you become prime minister. and that's the, that's the, the difference. but i want to examine that statement in detail. perhaps we should just explain that the scandal centers around bribes, allegedly paid by a cat, are to members of the european parliament to reduce criticism of its treatment of migrant workers. in the run up to the wild cop kathy has denied the charge. so most of those have been arrested, but huge sums in cash have been retrieved, not least from ever. kelly a greek m e p. and right, like you a vice president of the parliament, she's charged with corruption. after handing a suitcase with $300000.00 euros to her father, she denies any wrong doing much more of course to investigate on this. but does any of this shock you? absolutely. i mean i have been working next. so this person,

i have only been member of the parliament's the 3 years, and she has only been vice president for a year now. but she has been a colleague of mine, of course i work closely with her. i never got along with her very well, but i would have never, ever had her sitting on cases full of full of money. but as i said, the question is now how we deal with this? and we deal with, with this festival, she got kicked out of all of her functions within days. secondly, she has been arrested by the belgian authorities is still in custody. and thirdly, we have, or we are still in a process of examining all our rules here that are already quite severe, but examining the loopholes and closing them. give lu po's, haven't catherine about. in fact, there's been warning after warning for years that the use anti corruption

procedures were lax and non existent, nothing was done to remedy the situation. the german green m e p daniel fraud says a majority in the european parliament has repeatedly voted against transparency reforms in the past. you must have noticed that didn't worry you i have, i have absolutely as unfortunately, the conservative part of our about parliament. it's neither the green nor, well, i don't want to know, i don't want to make this a party political thing. let's, let's stop there. it's no because some of those arrested come from your party haven't. that's it. know, almost almost all of them. so there. so there isn't a policy political issue here, but transparency international use coded a culture of impunity in the parliament, which had some of the weakest sanctions in place. every serious attempt to improve accountability that is blocked by the parliament ruling bureau with the

acquiescence of a majority of m. p. 's. so parliament has consistently turned the blind eye to corruption. here hasn't it? well, i am who i am one who has always voted for most serious measures. so i agree that the measures are not severe enough. measures and transparency actually are more severe than for example in the german women talk. but the problem indeed is the sanction find, we do have sanctions, again, the companies for example, who, who try to influence any p via corruption or also the mission or whoever. but the sanction side toward, towards any piece that is one of the points that have to be strengthened and we're in the process of doing that. but i have, i have one thing to say, i mean what these people have done, allegedly,

they're not yet convicted. but what these people probably have done is a violation of criminal law. and i think one has to be aware that you can have some fancy rules and you can make them as severe as you want. if you have people with this criminal intention who are willing to break laws that bring you into jail for years, they will not be stopped. but you have to be aware of that. so what each means spend no excuse for not having any or not respecting the ones that you have. is it? well, if you, if you let me finish, then what we have to do is strengthen these rules in order, especially to see intimate to, to realize earlier what is happening and to prevent this from actually happening. and for example, to strengthen whistle blowing. this is one of my key key points that i'm focusing

on so that people who realize here's something going on, that they can go to a safe place and say, look, there is an m e p or in the system. we are going to extend the rules not only from any piece to assistance because apparently the network was what's mostly within, within the system. we're going to extend these rules and to, to have a safe place where people can go say, look, here's something going on. have a look in here and to detect much of that these things hopefully do not happen at all. and if they happen and that's a being discovered and punished, you can, you can, you can propose all these rules till the cows come home. but if m p 's vote against them in the way that they have in the past, they're not going to happen today. they're not going to become a reality yet. well, we have the group, the progressive of we caught the democrats. i'd say we have given ourselves already much stronger rules, much more severe rules. and we have said for our,

for our group that even if the majority of the parliament does not vote on stronger rules, we are going to apply these very much more severe rules. for example, extending the regime on our systems and many, many others. we're going to apply this. it's a majority votes for them or not. suddenly, when the scandal breaks, the european parliament president rebecca met sola hurries to register, a 142 gifts that she hadn't bother to register before. 142 doesn't look good. does it know it doesn't, but have you had a look at the, at the gifts, you can have a look at them on the bottom of the website. it is not good. i mean, she has to apply to the rules. there's no, no doubt about that. but if you have a look at them there, there's a sausage. there,

there are pictures that are being painted by kids. have a look at them. it's nothing where you would say that this is something that you would actually influence decision. it's a, it's a principle you either you either by the rules or you don't. i said that i said that there are other things, but she hasn't declared which are more worrying than that. like like like that she's been a few days in the nice resorts, redwine resort in burgundy or somewhere with our funds which hadn't been there with apparently not really a connection to to the office. sounds like a lot of skeletons in the european parliament's cupboard. well, that's probably where we've run out of time. thank you man. man. there's one sentence that the bus majority of politicians in the european parliament and

elsewhere are honest. people like myself and you shouldn't judge politicians by that skeleton or a catherine valley. thank you very much. for being on conflict, so thank you. yeah. ah ah, ah, with

to the point, strong opinions, clear positions, international active a war and ukraine is becoming a clash of systems. western democracies are feeling challenged by autocracies, like russia and china. and they are all, cording, non aligned,

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ah ah ah, this is dw news coming to live from berlin in ukraine. the battle for bach motors entering a crucial phrase, the head of the park and a mercenary group says units have almost completely surrounded the city. and there's only one road left out. while ukrainian troops dig in, residents are packing and leaving.