[000:00:00;00] ah, china is building a great wall of steel and ambitious modernization of its military. so ambitious that some us generals say that war between china and america may be inevitable. a rising, china is why the u. k. australia and the united states are joining forces like never before us nuclear submarine technology built by the brits to be manned by forces. from down under. i'm broke off in berlin. this is the day. ah, nuclear power not nuclear are the 3 countries say they will comply with the highest standards of non proliferation,

but this is pure deception. d. c. investment will be a catalyst for innovation and research, right? 3 heating allen ocean's free, open and prosperous decades to come to julie bush and so they're placing a big bet on confrontation, come from that. so this 1st project is 1st projects only beginning. ah, also coming up germany's 100000000000 euro promised to bulk up. it's military. how's that go? i wish the procurement of equipment was foster and the equipment was up to date and winds here that us come on. i also wish that my comments didn't have to obtain it privately, or because the official equipment wasn't sufficient outside in font. ah, well to our viewers watching on p b. s or the united states into all of you around the world. welcome. we begin the day with a mid air collision between a u. s. drone and a russian war plain,

and it was apparently no accident. washington saying that on tuesday, a russian fighter jet struck a u. s. surveillance drawn, forcing it down over the black sea. now russia has denied that its fighter jets came into contact with the u. s. drone. it says it didn't use any weapons against the drone either. before the drone went down, the russian warplane reportedly dumped fuel on it several times. the u. s. airforce, saying the maneuver was unprofessional, and could have also forced one of the russian fighter jets to crash. all right, for now i want to pull in marina miran, she's with the war studies department at kings college london marine. it's good to see you again. marina 1st thing, you know, we've just heard from the kremlin, they're saying that the drone was in russian air space headed for the russian border. and that they are not responsible for the drone crashing. and

is this, is this going to be a case of, you know, 2 versions of a story? are we going to be able to verify what really happened? oh, thank you for having me right now. we don't have a lot of information on what exactly happened. so indeed, us, you say we have 2 versions. one version was russian. air force is unprofessional behavior when it comes to them trying to score their am to 9 reproduce drone. and the other version is that russia saying they didn't actually do anything. and the legend lisa drone had its transponder is turned off, which would be a lation because the transport transponders make it possible to track that roan. and so the russians are kind of justifying their action by saying, you know, actually it was a violation from the us side. while the us is obviously saying that russian behavior was both dangerous to the russian air force to su 20 some fighter pilots.

as well as kind of generally to do to americans in this us surveillance drone. i mean, what would have drawn like this have been doing in this part of the world? i mean, is this solely for surveillance? now that's a very good question because this is not the 1st time that we is c u. s. aircraft over with the black sea. and the one of the incidence was, was the u. s. navy's m e p 3 areas in 2018 when the russians reacted in a similar manner. now's a difference here is that an e p 3 areas is an electronic reconnaissance plane which doesn't have any strike keep abilities. the m q 9 reaper however is equipped was how far missiles and we all have heard of the use of drones by the us in afghanistan and so on. and you know,

what kind of damage they can do. so the primary task was as drone is to strike targets and the secondary purpose is to collect intelligence. so having a drone and the black see obviously because a, you know, russian knows that ukrainian armed forces are relying on intelligence from the united states and relying on their kind of reconnaissance network having that report drone and the black sea right now is a danger to russia, especially in light of the attacks that have been conducted on crimea earlier on in the war. so obviously it would sat off a lot of alarm bells in russian's hads, even if it wasn't to strike any targets in crimea, it could potentially provide the ukrainian armed forces was vital intelligence upon which they can act. and you know, the fear is crimea is very vulnerable,

and russia is trying to make sure to protected the best. it can also failed in, in the past several months. as we have seen from the news. i was struck to today by what we heard from washington saying that these types of incidence of the said what to and today was unprofessional, and was reckless. but these also so that they're not uncommon. is that how you understand, i mean, do we see drones being hit by fighter jets on a somewhat regular basis? i don't think that they were referring specifically to drones being hit by fighter jets. but i think incidents in terms of, you know, drones being somewhere in that certainly aerospace and, and being escorted by, by playing such as in the case of a e p 3, as i said. so i, i don't think it's a matter of collision, but

a matter all of kind of an incident that a country would claim that a drone as it's in it's aerospace and by leading it's aerospace and you know that the type of incident that you know, that the, the americans were talking about and i added, i think that there will be conflicts and channels um functioning right now in order to avoid any sort of escalation from this. because it's unfortunate that the drone has been lost. however, and it's very difficult to determine what exactly happened and you know, the russians are saying that of because of the drone malfunction because of a maneuver it had to be shot down but not by the russian side. and so i guess it would be, the drone would need to be recovered in order to see was or is there, there was indeed a malfunction. try to get a full digital kind of what happened. and then only then we can proceed to analyze, you know, the, the 1st or steps and how that will affect the rush us relations,

which are at the lowest point right now. are we the wrong? as always, we appreciate your valuable insights to night. thank you. thank you very much. ah, well, from the vicinity of an active war's own eastern ukraine to the other side of the planet. the indo pacific region where the possibility of military conflict is getting stronger to dade shine or criticize to plan by australia to buy at least 3 nuclear powered submarines from the united states and the u. k. beijing accusing the 3 countries of going, quote, further down a dangerous road and of disregarding the concerns of the international community. russia to have slammed the plane. but she was ok. so ski new says the anglo saxon world look, go with the creation of structures like all kush sofa and with the advancement of nato military infrastructure into asia. is making

a serious bet on many years of confrontational, don't you build your good? may you all office will transfer large amounts of weapons grade, highly enriched uranium from nuclear states to a non nuclear state it risks nuclear proliferation and violates the aims of the non proliferation treaty. with the u. s. u. k. and australia and build of the plans at a meeting of their security alliance, which is known as alkalis a room. welcome to the 3 global leaders. they've come together to announce not just the major arms, dale, that's an historic strategic partnership. the oak is agreement. we confirm here in san diego represents the biggest single investment in australia's defense capability in all about history. australia will buy as many of 5 of these nuclear power submarines and light to build

a new one themselves based on british design with u. s. technology. it's a long time upgrade that will make australia a full partner in failing top secret us nuclear technology. previous the only shad with the u. k. warden has no partnership. we're showing again how democracies can deliver our own security and prosperity and not just for us, but for the entire world. oh, chris is an attempt to count a glowing chinese military power in the asia pacific region, including beijing's construction of a sophisticated naval fleet. brought australia won't get nuclear weapons, the nuclear propulsion of new submarine fleet will add substantial strength to the western alliance. in the asia pacific region. i'm joined now by charles e. dale. he is a senior advisor and the australia chair at the center for strategic and international studies. he joins me tonight from new york city. it's good to have

you on the show, mr. dale and i want to ask you, if china, we're not this emerging military power, that it is, would we've would be having this conversation about this nuclear submarine deal. absolutely not. but when you say emerging power, we have to note that it not only be exponential growth of the chinese military, but it's increasingly more assertive use. and if you subtract those 2 things, you would not have seen august in the 1st place. so this is a reaction to what the chinese have been building, what they've been modernizing and, and how they've been using over the past 2 decades. china is warning against what it calls a dangerous road that the u. s. the u. k. and australia are following up, but you know, china is also following a path of increasing armaments, isn't it? well, it's not following. in fact,

in many ways it's leading this call from beijing that australia, the u. k, u. s. or d, stabilizing the region by pursuing a nuclear propulsion for their summaries. many was died of hypocrisy. the chinese have built 15 nuclear, propel some reins of the last 2 decades. many of them that have intercontinental ballistic nuclear missiles. so the fact that china is kong is d, stabilizing ignores. what's the natural indeed reaction by many countries here? the purchase of this nuclear powered submarine by australia mean, is it, is it correct to say that of the u. k. australia in the u. s. australia is really going to be the, the military or the, even the economy that's going to see the biggest positive impact from this deal. is that correct? well, i think a little too early to say who's going to have the biggest impact because what we

know is there's going to be massive outlays and investments in all 3 countries. the united states just put forward its own defense budget, and there are increasing defense spending specifically towards submarine building by $2400000000.00 for the british announced just yesterday that they are increasing their defense spending by another $6000000000.00 u. s. and of course, you must ryan's have an enormous amount of money that they're going to put towards us. but also, we're hearing out to that, the australians in addition to investing in their own shipyards in training their own people to kind of meet the needs that they have. are also going to be investing in both the british and the american shipyard so that they can combined increase the production of some marines by all 3 countries. and you know, i notice what you didn't mentioned there were any continental european ports or economies, or we know that the french, they were not happy with the australians cancelling a submarine deal as

a result of this deal has, have, i guess the tensions, the diplomatic problems with that, have they all been ironed out now and is francis the you? is it going to be included in any way in this? all can steal? yeah, you know, 2 different answers to that question brand. on the one hand, i really do think that the page has turned, and one of the ways that we can note this is that before our prime minister receives nat came over to the united states from the u. k. he meant way, the manual micron and one of the things that they announced is that together, britain and france will be working to have a permanent narr maritime presence in the, you know, pacific region that kind of under scores that they turn the page here on. you know, the hurt feelings that resulted from the cancellation of the french ideal. not to mention the fact that both the crone i and anthony alban easy, the prime minister of australia said that that's behind them, they're know,

facing forward on this. so it does seem that they really kind of turn the picture. your 2nd question know about, will france be included? look, it's a big enough lift for the 3 countries to figure out how they're going to proceed with office. but they've left the door open for other countries, potentially collaborating down the road on some of the advanced technologies that they're going to be sharing together. japan has a sing the finding interest. so to us, france, so to his new zealand in the non nuclear areas of this. so france is certainly a candidate for joining august. as the initiative gets underway. in the last week we heard from she should pink his call for china to build what he called a great wall of steel. that, of course, being of a modern military. we've also heard from the pentagon earlier us generals, who have been quoted as saying that they think that war with china is inevitable by the year 2025. and now we have the august deal making headlines this week. it all

seems that the, the momentum is towards anything but peach. how do you see like the way that you laid that out? sounds very disturbing and there is no denying that there are increasing tensions. but i think 1st of all, we just need to correct a little bit. the general word is very different from us policy. and what we heard and joe barton and saying yesterday, was this deal to undertaken not to engage in conflict, but to prevent and deter one from breaking out in the 1st place. the way that the us is thinking about this is for a long time, china has understood that it has a very permissive security environment. as it's ramped up, it's military spending, as it began to lean on neighboring state, there hasn't really been a response when you don't have response. the country that doing it feels like it can keep going. well, we're now seeing as an attempt to show to china that there will be consequences and there will be

a response. and the whole point of market is to increase defense can pick capacity so that we get where in easier balance of power in the region. and that you actually deter complex from breaking out in the 1st place. charles, it'll, it's good to have you on the show tonight. excellent analysis of what's going on. thank you. thanks for having me on. ah, germany's army, the boldness very has too little of everything that is the bottom line of a new parliamentary report that's come out on the military. and germany's commissioner for the army says that the situation has become even worse in the past year. and that's despite a massive 100000000 euro fund that was announced last year to upgrade germany's armed forces, the government. some of them saying that none of this money is being felt yet by troops on the ground. sending tanks and other military equipment to ukraine has

limited. the german military's own training in combat capabilities and chronic under funding has left soldiers with sub standard equipment. as our next report shows. ah, it looks like a battle field, but it's actually a training exercise for tiger combat helicopters in eastern germany. these models have been parts of natives, rapid response fall since january. but that 1980 is technology's outdated. an urgently needs to be graded for better self defense. they don't quite stuck up to the superior protective measures. a potential opponents was if a wooden ball were very vulnerable, this isn't a flying tag, even if it looks like it. we stay a bit more in the background and take action from that. but nonetheless, we do want to make an impact on the enemy. vocal and find on. the main concern is

that the helicopters could get damaged or break down. maintenance and repair costs are already significant. just a dozen a 50 when tigers are ready for combats. and there were also issues with weapons malfunctioning as i had to put them artic dusty bottle. the problem is that the gun cartridges that supplied are differing lengths on that was from others being an issue. in this case, it caused the cartridge to move in correctly, that by destroying the entire casing. machine good training has been cancelled for now. but it's not just faulty cartridges that have been causing problems. germany's army, the bundeswehr, also doesn't have enough ammunition to begin with. some regiments do have new equipment, but there's only enough for those in the ne to rapid response force if it's not standard for the german army. velma rubric i this is a liberal for us as to the

a show of thought that he's the one i would actually like to see this implemented the way it's being portrayed in the media. zach that every soldier would be equipped by a certain date. he does not come at oscars, dotted lines, or the military exercises, and we'll operations. all results is pooled. the problem is to kill mant waiting. 5 years or more for equipments or uniforms is not uncommon. vincent and definitive syllabus, i wish the procurement of equipment was foster and the equipment was up to date volunteer that us come on. i also wish that my comments didn't have to obtain it privately or because the official equipment wasn't sufficient. all side and fondness. be sold, just say they've seen little of the money promised, but they doing all they can to keep the tiger combat helicopters in the skies were pulling our political correspondent note simon young simon's good to see you a 100000000000 euros pledged

a year ago. and now we've got people going on the record saying they haven't seen the money. how is that possible? yes, the picture that comes out of this report as suggest that you know, in the german armed forces, the decision making is too slow. and the implementation is too slow, no matter what the buddhist bad tries to do, whether it's buying the weapons or running new training programs or building new parents. if it hasn't been done before, if there isn't to retain this chain of paperwork and preparation, you're rock receipt is a problem. i think that's the case in many military's around the well, perhaps german bureaucracy is especially thorough. but what it means is that, for instance, on infrastructure buildings and bases and so on, for instance, in that area, only a 1000000000 euros we spent last year rather than the 50000000000 experts say is needed. and on weapons, you know, there's a problem of restocking 14 pads or how it's

a big guns was sent to ukraine last year, but it takes months to get the orders in to replace them. and that's going to be a problem for the armed forces here. going forward is all going to be financed. it's going to be planned. and of course all this on top of years of under investment in german armed forces. so a big rethinking change is needed. so i mean, i like the way you describe it as a very thorough bureaucracy, or we know that the problem has been played in germany for some time. now, we went out on the streets here in berlin, and we just asked people on the streets average citizens for their views on the state of their country's military. here's what they told vanessia. if a gun that when the pos people in germany offered like to make fun of the incompetence of the bundeswehr and know they realized that it might make sense to take care of it. after all the policy go to p. one has it actually i think they do unfortunately receive too little support. i think it would be good if they were

supported a little better as a who knows sophia well, i think that's too much alex. yeah. i think that there are other causes in this country besides the bonus there. that neat money gave the food in his van beautifully way too much. money is spent on it because we want to have peace and not bundis man, that's it. thank you. big news. i am really a person who is against war and against armed violence and all that i deem it, but unfortunately i think that we can't do without it does say guns own initials come your son. when you talk about a 100000000000 euros, it sounds like a lot of money, but even the german defense minister have said that the 100000000 euros will not be enough to get the countries army up to the strength level that it should be. how much more is it going to take? well, according to this, so report today and do the experts it could take up to 300000000000 euros to equip and prepare german,

germany's armed forces for all the roles they're going to need to carry out. not only money, i should say. evils have got to get people to join. and a lack of personnel has been a problem. but the money is key. of course, germany's armed forces are being asked to do a lot of things, training missions right now. those are deploying on nato's east in flank. they've been delivering some equipment to ukraine and many other things. in addition to the roles they already had, such as peace keeping in molly. so i think, you know, what you're seeing is a trend towards more roles and more emphasis on the, the, to the military protection of germany. we need a rethink, i suppose, of the sort of default pacifism of the past. and as you see from those voices on berlin streets there, you know, more and more people i think, are open at least to the idea in some cases of saying, well yes, let's have a,

a strong and effective buddhist mer. zarina got about 30 seconds. germany is one of the world's leading arms producers in ex borders, but it's very slow in getting equipment to its own troops. that just doesn't make sense to most people who aren't familiar with the story doesn't. yeah, as i mentioned there a partly it's about bureaucracy and slowed processes. but i think also some people appointed for instance, to the fact that german generals often have special wishes for particular weapon systems. they want special versions if they took the standard versions that would be a lot cheaper. they could also buy directly rather than having long drawn out tend to processes. but i think all of this is part of a new discussion that says we need more money for our own forces and we need to get on with it and reform them make them effective. so i mean young as always, thank you. well, the day's almost done, the conversation continues online. you'll find us on twitter either at the w news. you can follow me on twitter at brent gov tv and remember whatever happens between now and then,

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