yes, i never thought about how strange it was that i had my dog with one hand while i eat a pork chop with the other. what is the alternative and how does it taste? it's like the real thing. yeah. well, we all be beginning 50 years. as senior, very sure. strong arguments to keep hunting animals a documentary series about the future of food with the great debate this week on t w. just over a year ago, the main russian attack on ukraine was launched from bella luce, a country long, subservient to the criminal will. but opposition still survives there, even though its leader is an exile in lithuania, convicted in the center of trying to seize power sheets for atlanta,

tica new sky routing for a ukrainian victory that she said could propel her group to power envelopes. so is she ready for a bloody civil war? look, it also might be one of the nearest. but for if we talk about very casually, a lot of people might die. you ready for that? for now? valid email, zalinski is refusing to meter. his officials have said bluntly, her boot is irrelevant. how much damage has that done her? but she have what it takes to stand up to europe. lost dictated in bella. ruth and the russians who protected ah c, atlanta. think on north guy a welcome to conflict zone. without him on that one. let's talk if we may 1st about the situation in ukraine, you're obviously in touch with your supporters. people in the opposition there. what are they saying about the stage of the war has reached in ukraine?

what is their opinion of that stage? so people in the rules understand that the, the war in the ukraine was a huge pain for there are some people before go since our support and ukraine. yes . in this war of course people, wanda, how long the war continued. because you said people's lives through and see this, and of course our country is also influenced by this war. and people in business understand that it's a who became co operative in this war, that our country became a corporate despite the wheel. there were some people in our country about 86 percent. so good sense i against the spatial builders in this war. but the question became accomplish, and he provided our territory for a want me to train, but of course some people don't want to pray. can you connection to the of the

ukrainians as nation and the use of your country? bella luce, and your supporters who are pushing for democracy? these fortunes are intimately tied to what's happening in ukraine. if ukraine doesn't win this war and when it decisively, you have no chance of ever changing the system and bellows to you. oh, of course more. you know, when the bills, some people don't accept this, this regime and you more they want changes. they want to release our political prisoners, they want to, they chose a prayer pm way or for development. these will be able to show, despite against the regime, of course, the face of the crane. i intertwined, and i don't even accept the thought that ukrainians might lose, i believe in the threat. and i believe in the extra bill or some people over there

. we're sure of course we can predict how much time it will take. but there are some people who will never agreed to leave onto the data she, let's talk about the 15 year sentence handed down by a court in bella, luce, which convicted you of treason and conspiracy to seize power, you are now in exile. and if you alia, how worried to you about your safety, you know, i'm under threat since 20 to 20, and it hasn't changed for a day since then. i don't know how long there regimes hence off, and i understand that the, you know, i can be home to this or this way. and the, my, remember they learned in the, for ryan, they applied when 2 people had been kidnapped. but i know that i have to continue my work and until i am free until i have support or for and the protection of with

when yeah, i will continue to, you know, i will continue my work. how do they affect you these constant threats? oh, actually not really because i really believe that people who fled below because of repression. they might feel secure want in, in the western countries. but of course be, have a lot of trouble because of these trials because of because of the trials and obsess here and people might be in the regime. i plan to into pool for example, to extra addict people. but i see how the sense, you know, despite of this risk they continue to fight your response to this sentence as being that your movement is unstoppable. and if luka should go through it, otherwise he's wrong, it may not be the sentence that stops you. but the constant repression and bellows

severely limits what you can do, doesn't it? of course. so we can do a lot inside. because said the level of repression, of course, influenced people a lot. and our movement went on the ground. and people actually show almost every day small acts of disobedience or harbor cash in bill ross. and recently maybe have heard that russian airplane was pulled by our partisans. so bush and originals that they didn't manage to still bill or some people. and even under a huge weight off repression, people continue to resist and i can't influence the mind. we are thinking of people anymore. and this is the most important when you say that, but in 2021. you said if you want a beautiful picture of demonstrations of protest as we can call people to the streets, but how many victims will it cost us?

my question to you isn't the price for resisting, becoming simply too high for most people and bellows. ah, people are fighting for the country. people are fighting for a day independence. people are fighting for the rights. and of course are what people are sick, refined the freedom, some sick refined with their lives. but the, this is the price or for leaving in the previous years. and we see that 2 and half, he has plots and people are still ready for, for this sick profile. and the day the history will show, you know, the future will show how much, how many victims won't be. we'll have but, you know, of course we would like to avoid all this. and the only question is the only person, and he say people around him are responsible for the victims. people are ready for these people are ready to fight. do you have

a wonder if it's all worth the heartache and the personal sacrifice your own husband was given an 18 year sentence and you have no idea when you are going to see him again. do you? yes, i don't have an idea the same as the thousands of people in prisons and hundreds of 1000 say in the other was was actually taken as hostages. but people understand the responsibility for all those who have read the 6 or 5 to be the they live sexually . and in all, for me personally, you know, this is my husband who is my motivator to continue this fight when they look at my children who are asking me every day when they are going to see they telling you to give me this push, you know, to go to continue because of course i'm sometimes tired. of course i'm sometimes frustrated and you know, astonished to be these prison temps. that's a given to people. but you understand that if you talk, you know,

it will not change in your pin for years. so now don't think about yourself. don't think about too personal sacrifice, but, you know, continue to do what you do despite all the repression in bella, luce, you paint a picture of a much more fluid political situation than others have done. you said a couple of weeks ago. look, shank, i can't control the situation in bella luce anymore. the regime is very fragile at the moment. it might seem monolithic, but it's not. where is this frigid lety that you see? and what is directly is lucretia and not controlling. so the only thing that we're gotcha case control and is the actual repression and repression. he manages, you know, to keep people in stress, but not enough to control the repression. that's enough for him, isn't it? i wouldn't say so, you know, you for question. can manage to change

a way of thinking of people that they understood. ok. you know, we had done the, i'm not going to do anything else, but the question is, every, the weights in the, you know, for, for the sake of disobedience, so this small x of sabotage, you know, when the war has started, he will show us that his oppressed business decides, and then when the russian assures were coming through bill was a tips of sabotage, took place on railways. it was unexpected. the full question can, i have mentioned already this blow up on the russian plane. and the also concert trust people around him anymore. he knows that people want changes that people even around, you know, his vertical paul within the sense that there were smooth future with more questions. she's unshakable in the world western war that police in the your say. and he will never be perceptive as real lead the or for years and people around him

. they also like, think and all the time. where is the power for their future will be multiple question. and, you know, after every act of sabotage, after every sign of resistance in build a roof, we get so many calls from, from structure. the regime wants to cooperate with us. it shows that rigidity or for, for the vertical power, shanker contrast, people around him anymore. he's always changing people around, you know, he, she's afraid actually being betrayed by his personal will. if things are bad for him, why don't the people around him get rid of him then? ah, because the question for 20 years he has been building vertical power. that was so focused on him, you know, and he made this through fear, through blackmail and people, of course, in the regime they're also afraid for their lives for life or for they relatives.

and you know, recently and you more a so called law was, was adopted by the regime that gives them christ, you know, to print people to death penalty for state prison. it was done because she is not sure if she has the meals for this round and people in the new court. for the last week, you spoke of a leak rush and document outlining rushes planned to occupy and colonized bella roost by 2030. are you preparing to take the country by force to prevent that happening? no, of course, there was there can be such threats from russia because they don't see a mobile rule. small ukraine as a separate, independent contract. they want, what conscious to be the c o for influence of kremlin. and the difference between

ukraine and dealers is shameka became cooperative and this was so he like sale in our independence already now. so i want to talk about your so called victory plan, the what's being described as the eventual mobilization of what your movement claims to be. some 200000 people inside bellows, many of whom are trained. so soldiers, are you talking about staging a coo and possibly starting a bloody civil war? ah, we can never talks about blood the civil war. and this would lead to that, that could be 3 to replace. supposed to be peaceful. and we stick to the, the piece will change it's in our country. there is, you don't want to have any victims to get any victims to, according to this plan won't leave peacefully what then it's all it has to make him live peacefully. and what if he calls his security forces

and the russian units that are based in belarus, what if they come to defend him? what then you're in a fight, don't you? you have a civil war on your hands. are you? are you prepared for that? so that's why it's our task. so create as much pressure. luka should come now and we see the world, it creates a multiple points off pressure on the kremlin to be can them for them not to have a pets unity to use this group of field trip people against bill or some people you think they just walk away give up fee the size of the crowds on the streets and, and walk away. they didn't do that in february 2021. did they after the violent crack down after the elections that you thought would couple of the regime. you said at the time, i have to admit that we've lost the streets. we have no way of combating the regimes violence against the protest. as they have the strength,

they have the guns and they still do, don't they? they still have the strength and they still have those guns. yeah, absolutely. but repressions can not be endless. you know, it's difficult to ruin society, that's the one changes you know, and you know, now we see about 57 to 17 people are being detained and everything you focused on can you that you want this fight that he controls be or was it, it will not be necessary, not to suppress people every day, but she knows that he has to show that he's like, lead to hear that he's control and everything. but he not, he understand that our society has changed and he will not be able to make people love lucas. and again, yes, he can sustain for, for some time i don't know how much time it will take, but, you know,

i'll walk constant pressure constant creating constant stress to shameka will make him time to stand. that there is no other way out of the situation. only give up and you know, and step away. what if you want, if you are wrong, he's not a person who gives up. he cemented in power by the kremlin, by the criminal security forces. i'm by the battle harden troops. he's not going to give up and walk away. is he? so the, but times the time is changing and we see that he is he's looking for support and prevalence. and this was shows that for some who, russian, i'm is not so powerful as they wanted to show all this time and for sure once one day. and you will see that question call support from kremlin, because kremlin is to be the be the with what's going on in russia. and they

don't have to pay much attention to the question. because also it may be afraid that she can replace with the russian person, you know, who knows who question is or is also afraid. so huge gamble. this is a huge gamble on your part because if you're wrong and people take to the streets, then there will be a bloody civil war. well, there, if you're wrong, look, it also might be one of the nearest. but the, you know, if the casually a lot of people might die, you ready for that? a look, it's cert responsibility offered shameka. you know, it's, it is here, you know, who are pushing our country to these possible scenarios. but from my side, again, they have to repeat, they can be a lot of if, if this is that we know what we want and we know that we are moving into

incorrect size. we want peaceful changes in bureaus and we deliver this message is to caution gastronomy to she's meal tra, parameters don't want blood. yes, she can sick sick for fights with people. bureaus can sick provis with people around him, but those people need to continue to support him. in this case, that's the question, and she can be sure in our written regular army, at least you know, he for 28 years. yes, he has been building this per office around him now, but he didn't invest in to the regular army. and if our sold us, i don't know, we'll see that question got his crossed all the course will read us. so they will stand on their side of the people. but of course, i don't want any blood to see the civil war bureaus and i come to the sky. ukraine is watching very carefully what's going on and then not impressed by your

efforts or your movement. president zalinski doesn't want to meet you. his advisor mckayla pollock, is on record as saying, we don't see any meaningful activity on the part of the opposition with all due respect. what's the point in meeting? see kind of this guy that's pretty damaging, isn't it? we understand the position there, understand that the premium, the government is rather cautious now because actually they don't want to open the 2nd front and they don't like to quarrel on the day after 2020, they didn't recognize the elections that you're irrelevant. kia believes the bell or russian opposition exerts neither an organisational nor an intellectual influence on bella, russian society. that's a pretty poor review, isn't it? by anybody's standards. there are different people in the government. so if you're praying, we are working very closely. for example, the,

the full and rather the group for democratic bureaus in nevada and 2 chiefs. all these true one person from a position and one person from a pot to gun that order. so, and you can see i, you know, who we don't know the cause of the sky, just appointed by what you heard from his advisors. it's not above disappointment, it's about and the stands and why they're doing like this. but i always say that to be reveal support to cray and ukrainian despite the presence or absence of political dialogue by refusing to meet you isn't present the landscape just reflecting what most ukrainians think they thought me and well disposed towards your country after it hosted the invasion forces a year ago, last week, a poll by the resume of center in kiff said 2 thirds of ukrainians would support

breaking all relations with bellows after the war is one. exactly the same people that you would want on your side. so the idea of a common ukraine bella roost front against moscow, that's not going to happen, is it? they're not well disposed towards you i wouldn't say so look, i am sure that you're probably the post speak very clearly. don't oh, well, no. in all, i know the korean governments, they distinguish builders and people and build and regime the same as ukrainians, you know, only speaking when the war started, we were astonished. ukrainian. people don't understand the situation in bureaus. and in one moment we became enemies for them. and it took us some time to explain the situation now a contrary about this humorous prizes of both atrocities about violence. and now

the situation is much better that at the beginning of the war, maybe because not all the people are still understand. the situation inside builders, but of course the prayer of there are some partisans, they pressure of builders and volunteers, and ukraine. the show that there were some people on the sides of ukraine and i think that's ukrainians. they understand that society don't support this war. they're supporting ukrainians, but of course on not one emotional level, it's difficult for them to say yes we, we are happy with the sense we understand that they are our friends. when the warms be launched from the territory of the recent, our task in information informational space to explain that some people is not the same as look around us regime. despite what you say about the bellows, you know, people supporting ukraine. the polls show that your country is really split on the

boy and ukraine. an online survey last august by the chatham house, think tank in london showed that there were 45 percent against the russian invasion, but 30 percent backed it. and 25 percent were undecided. it means over 50 percent of people in bella, luce, either for russia or undecided, if that's right, less than half the countries on your side do about that at the true. because i know that it's very difficult to hold and you pools inside was where people know that for like run on stocks, they can be sentenced to 510 and 15. yes, there's a western pole. this was a poll carried out by british thinktank. i understand, but he's from the terrace rebel rous nevertheless. so we have to understand how people in countries where like lag is exist and how they're actin. you know, they, you know, more understandably, you know,

they give the answer that will not lead to repressions towards them and their families very briefly about your personal ambition. is it to lead barrows to democracy? what makes you a leader? what makes you capable of doing this? ah, you know, 1st of all, i have legitimacy from bills and people. those and people waters for me in 2020 and and it gives me the, gave me the mandate to leave contra, told them accredit, changes officially confirmed. was it even despite the fact that the election then was widely judged to have been rigged by alexander lucas. shank official, it was confirmed that location of what, what 8 percent, but we still have exactly officially. how many you got? do we know we don't? but we had alternative counting. we had to be very inventive because all the

elections in bills had been prevalent and our, i, 2 special is deville to system of chickens off the results of the elections. but there was a list in though i still communicate with people and people who had to flee the country and they feel the support. and they know that majority of people haven't disappointed in my actions, haven't disappointed in me. and they, i know that i'm supported by your sins. so this support of people gives me legitimacy and tried to present the opinion on the international rhythm. so very briefly, you're going to be, you think you're going to be liter bellows. moment it is to print bills to new friends and fair elections. i'm not going to expect a new elections because i gave some promise to build some people. but of course,

i will be there since i will use all my contexts to in favor of trivial errors to atlanta. and scott, thank you very much for being on conflict on ah ah, ah, with

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