and turmoil the m. yeah. nice. the divided country and boost it's long awaited recovery in 45 minutes on d. w. o. rearing to read. ah, everyone who loves books has to go insane with the d. w. literature list. a 100 german must reads ah, ah, you don't have to be an activist to know that something has to change

the huge amount of meat we consume accelerates climate change in dangers our health and causes billions of animals to suffer. i am quite modest counted who are the only a small minority of people believe that everything in the meat industry is fine. and just one 5th of people are opposed to a complete ban on factory farming. but humans are fickle. most of us are deeply affected when we see images of animals in distress. a stress a part of us feels like him. we're dying peak screaming, and dement change immediately. but another part of us reacts just like people on the other side. the stake taste so little worse today, but still far to teach to,

to do without so how are we supposed to change the world when we can hardly change ourselves? ah, i'm rosa. and once i picked up a chicken, it's been really, i'm julian, and i saw someone get spit on by a la la manuel project day at berlin school's. been all, i'm reuben, and i held a little baby goes in my arms. when am unknown, class 5 be will spend the day looking at the relationship between humans and animals that were all my grandma's neighbor has very cute rabbits, and they always nibble on us, laid jama. okay. yeah, the phone,

it's been good. yes, very nice. and i'm free to rica, and i once put sunscreen on a little pink him, i accuse him rodriguez. schmidt's is convinced young people are the key to changing the conditions in livestock foreign album. and see, with my goal isn't to convince you of my opinion or something going on. it's about you getting information and thinking for yourself what you think. what's your date on the field? often she sees children as future consumers, young citizens who will one day choose the kind of society they want to live in until 9 often august of 15 or to handle. he had salanda and in austin, and i hope that we will abolish livestock farming in this country or in industrialized countries and that we will do so in the next few years or decades this, this is whether that's realistic or what i always find that a funny question because it's just not at all realistic to go on us. we all. now that came up, we are in the middle of a climate crisis keegan. of course we have to completely transform society in order to have any chance of continuing to live reasonably well. hair on this planet would

label to cut. they start with 2 big circles because i love them if it's a need that pigs and humans have, then you can sort of hang that here in the middle. after just a few cards, it becomes apparent that it's the middle that fills up the fastest finding needs that differentiate humans from pigs is harder than expected. such notice anything, anything you would change? curiosity should come in the middle of monday and the rest of you is it something takes want to you or just humans matter that i have indeed picks a very curious, even more curious than dogs. i was wondering 1st students see what pigs who are left to themselves will do

then comes the inevitable contrast at various stations, the children explore how pigs actually live when they're farmed. live also. must that be bad? that's totally how they try out how much space they would have as farmed pigments. and you guys back up if you want. i know they learn that cells are kept in pens. they can turn around in for weeks and that most pig let's only live a few months on my how do you think that feels for the big oh, if we were trapped there and i think we would have killed ourselves in the barn block if we know that we're gonna die anyway in the next few years. i was kinda not hot dashed, i don't know bagman. i nodded. hit dashboard. there's no way to show it neatly as soon as you show reality have you need to choose information table, and maybe we choose the more negative information instead of the positive every dish. we don't say that the pigs,

i mean it's hard to find any positive information. we don't, i say the pick lives, have it nice and cozy under the heat lamp. that's what the pharmacy association says when we say the pickets can nurse from their mother, kind of the mother can't take care of them or congress and they are taken away after a few weeks or so like a mom. they can never get outside. they can't. you to round the ground, they never phase in a stream. they can only take a few steps back and forth and never walk across a field. the event is a, a inflexion which use this negative information because it's relevant for ethical reflection. as of yes, if everything were wonderful, we wouldn't need to talk about it at all and the problem. okay. and, and now you see that many animals are also tortures. yellow, clear van. so i try to eat less, mate. yes, i said, i'm back. i just thought it was stupid, i didn't know that before and the story behind it. but now we know it gets this edith. at lunchtime, the salami stays in the lunch box, but frieda leeker,

schmitz knows people who grow up in a world of animal products don't change their habits in a day. ish cloudfront off us by then can on our bus. i do believe it moves the children somehow. dozens of thomas lasting, a fact. i'm and a few thoughts on a few seats have been so and i thought some things being triggered. i dropped it at the same time. we also notice in the workshop. so how powerful habits can being shortened on the one hand and children are totally shocked about how badly the pixel kept on psalms is all my effect later on when it comes to whether or not to eats meat, you don't go to for many of them. and mostly they can do is to try and eat less meat letters. of course, i'd like to see more committed reactions. so it's not just that i think it's a shame what the children often say at the end, measured against my own opinions, but measured against what they themselves said 2 hours earlier, gamez on the embassy, there are federal for exact time. as of conditioned implement, i simply can't imagine at that moment that they could no longer eat me less mass

con. it's not in the realm of possibility formulation for the nevertheless, legally gr schmidt's believes in the power of a good argument. we all like to think that a good argument could make us change our habits with how much we are affected by these arguments depends a great deal on context. psychologists are found that people consider animals to be less morally wrong went if they've been given me to eat before the interview, eating animals, and at the same time, recognizing them morally, leads to cognitive dissonance in our minds. and to avoid it, our opinion adjusts to our behavior. in and other study participants who were told they would soon meet a homeless person who needed their help, preferred to hear the most unemotional version of his life possible.

on the other hand, those who did not know they would meet him in person. we're much more interested in the emotional details of his life. it is the same impulse we have when we avoid eye contact with someone baking on the street. science has a name for this effect. empathy avoidance, ah, well, currently had smith, common leadership moon, has been working for 27 years to make sure we remain empathetic. theodore, thank you all for being here is and here we're here to talk about this issue to hire. and i think i'm not alone in being outraged by us hot his animal rights organization. so co tears shirts, graces public awareness of abuses in industrial farming. but he appeared to us what happened here has unfortunately brought i something i need to see. again and again, i wouldn't have thought i'd ever see this extent of violence towards

a helpless animals as you're my, the in this time it's about cows. sick animals are said to have been illegally slaughtered at a nearby slaughterhouse. secretly filmed footage shows emaciated, cattle cold, downer cows being pushed across the floor one after the other. when they don't move, and employee beats them. when if you look here, now you can see the animal collapsed at some point of afflicted. people who came to the activists meeting can hardly believe this happened in their neighbourhood. unfortunately, we meet to see this in full detail. it is very important that have you done now, he comes with a bolt gun and fires at boyd social. it's got a knife and a gun to kill or the throw to slit. companies usually keep this hidden. video cameras, ford saw in a shed, a hood latch for how the video cameras high fences, yeoman's, the barbed wire,

learn, or security services dogs detected. the use all means have to hide what they're doing a thumbs. so most of i developed a strategy meant to you, okay? you need a different approach from is that you must document at secret lines under cover like father sir, you have to seek in there and inform people so they can form an opinion can they should be ashamed of themselves. who is that? where does he live? you must not truly personally, of course we have to protect their right to privacy, even the rights of wrong to are safe because it won't help any one if people try to take revenge. is a whole system of the dairy industry that systematically ranks animal planet museum was pleaded here that this democracy, caput leadership moon, sees the same patterns repeatedly, both of animal treatment and our reactions to it is often the theme of cancer up that much vomiting can mention that to my purpose of my ecstasy, or example, the issue of stick house are the people say,

of course for class extreme i'm but they feel to understand this is a whole system bidding. it all goes together. did you conditions the cows are kept in the are still bad. the animals are muscle. maximize milky lawanda, do they're over bread gotten in their lives are short young. they get sick and injured quickly and become donor cose, the donor cose. i'm far simply the other side of the dairy industry and his problem problem one and they produce milk on the other at the end of the diner camps on the inside to calm the donna crew of halls. after the meeting, the images stay in people's minds. many don't want to go home right away. laura. alice put a spontaneous vigil starts in front of a butcher shop. stop him for bundles you might not affect. your don cushion was all yeah, very, very ha named boys and but make a commitment to try to get out of the system because people always tell me later. yes, i found a butcher, i trust and it's much better. it's organic and all the rest is to be you,

but it's just a never ending cycle this. i've always the same over you over life on the people are screaming for vigilante justice on facebook's enough that we have to hang him small. we should drone the harshest punishment you can give these people. even those buying broccoli in dim up locally called the goal, isn't to shut down individual slaughterhouses. by the way, i've thought to say you guys are really great. feel totally like the you don't want to chip away at suicidal support for the industry. in this forest, in belgium, several dozen rescued animals live with activist topiary lane out. turkey likes to look at himself in the mirror. is always there marrying himself in terms of cases in the will moral cases, it's harder to it's hard to find any case that can be made better than the case for

reagan is that i think i am unsure about so many things in the world. i see black and white everywhere, but, and that's maybe what attracted me to dest does field, is that in, in this case, i think i see a lot of clarity. i think, i see. i see very few strong arguments to keep eating animals. and certainly i see numb for treating animals the way that we do. there are no arguments, no, no rational, no arguments that make sense. but still these arguments don't have the power to convince most people, of course, that's, that is very frustrating for, for activists. and for people who want to create this change. and so yeah, rather than, than studying more and studying all these arguments and all these facts, you know, these facts are not going to sell this idea. his goal is the same as that of lead to weaker schmidt and fleet which moon, but he believes there's

a different way to achieve it. no, there wasn't study among moral philosophers, professors, and ethics. and am they asked his professors, or do you think that the eating of animals to killing and eating of animals can be morally justified? even though the study found that ethicists, who thought meeting was morally wrong, were clearly in the majority. less than half of them were vegetarians. in general, the philosophers, even though they spend all day making moral arguments when it comes to their actions, they're no different than other people. they don't donate more money or blood. they check in with their mothers just as rarely. and they leave their trash lying around just as often what you see there is an example of his attitude behavior. get to have the right asked you to have the right ideas the right information, but still did, didn't translate into the right and behavior. so what i'm saying is that,

that we can also focus on the opposite thing. we can make sure that people change their behavior and that is by providing them with products that are just so great that they don't need any argument or reason to taste them, except that they're good and then make them forget about what they loved so much and and a moment they have a really good reagan tast experience. the thing is that they become a lot more open to the arguments for forgiveness them in our actual dealings with people and animals, we make ethical decisions differently than in the abstract minds of philosophers. our reason isn't like a judge who impartially waste that fats and decides it's more like a lawyer who looks for arguments to defend our behavior. dubiously, not says that when we no longer feel defensive, we'll find the same arguments more convincing. we like to think that

when we abolish slavery, that was just because of moral outreach. that was just because people were like fed up and they said like, we can't treat our, our brothers and sisters like this. and we like to believe that was the only reason and that was certainly part of the reason it's important. his moral outreach against injustice is important, but there were also other more pragmatic, more mundane re, reasons like this was also the time of day an industrial revolution. and so da da steam engine was invented an am. it could be so in certain cases that an ultimate i solution a machine was cheaper than slaves. so you can imagine a slave holder saying like, ok, i have this alternative. i don't need my sleeves anymore. and we would say certainly now to day, well that guys is, is, is an asshole right? because now that he has a solution, he's gonna release his slaves. he should have done it much earlier. but pragmatically, we, we can be happy that that dissolution is darren at the helps people. and that,

that may be afterwards that helped people realize, yeah, well actually, this is wrong for we're at a new guy in cologne. it's the biggest food trade fair in the world. with exhibitors from 98 countries, all the big companies are represented here. manufacturers proudly present their latest products. but among the enormous boots for companies featuring meat, you can find more and more vegetarian and vegan alternatives. i like to say something neatness. yeah, i view it. so leave. okay. what, what's the basis? it's me from piece he's okay. he's and yeah, they like it. yeah, yeah. good extra. even though there are increasingly better alternatives to animal proteins, topya's sleigh not doesn't think we should urge everyone to become vegans right

away. research shows that people only tried to change when they believe they can actually sustain that change. some people would say like i could never least have cheese and i would just say like, i mean yeah, just try that. i mean leave, keep eating the cheese and, and do all the rest. because if you say like, well the, yeah, it's all or nothing and no you have to give up cheese to because cheese is horrible for the animals, et cetera. chances are that they, they're not going to do anything so, so, so there's a saying if you ask for all or nothing, what you usually get is nothing. it's not about am one percent of people doing something perfectly. it's about millions of people doing something in perfectly, even just to people who only meet on the weekends would together have a greater effect than one vegetarian. and for toby, a sleigh, not the only thing that counts is the thing that works. i remember being in a hotel, it wasn't with a group of social change makers, but they were not vegetarian or vegan. and i had to give a talk about my topic and,

and the organizes asked like, ok, who's going to eat egan? and who's going to order of egan dish to night and they all put their hands off. and i said, oh no please because i had eaten in that hotel the night before and was terrible the ve can for was terrible so. so i didn't want them to i wanted them to eat meat tonight because the worst thing that did. yeah. an enemy number one is bad. reagan fruit, if you give people that they get confirmed in their prejudices and, and we're just further away from them for him. the path to a time after meet will mean decades of gradual developments. and many compromises you have to dare to break your own rules. pragmatism anyway, is a testimony to how much you want to achieve those ideals you want to be. you want to sacrifice some things. you want to sacrifice some,

some idealistic principles to get there. and you don't look at your own. personal purity is totally honest. hello sir. hi something i grimaced. lynn. so you are. you're filming for a few minutes. yeah. there. am i making documentary on on the future foods or the tv channel? and i was wondering if you guys are traditionally amid company, but you're also getting into vegetarian vegan products. what's your i think it's very good and i think you're going to make alliances with people and parties. so stakeholders, debt and don't necessarily have the same ideas of you that am i will go part of the way with you, but not all the way. thank you. all right, thank you. we have to accept that is going to be imperfections. one thing i like to see is that a new system has to be built with money from the old system, you know,

and it may seem very unfair that all these big food companies take take quite so much money by. yeah, killing animals and selling animal products, and now then they going to like, also make a profit with these alternatives. now that they see that they're profitable. that is something that seems very a, just an almost infuriating am. but i am afraid there is no other way. ah, ah, when toby us, they not imagines the future. he sees a slow but clear path to becoming meat free, more and more people reduce their meat consumption and opt for alternatives. the growing demand, finances, new innovations meet alternatives, improved, causing even more demand. it's a self reinforcing system in the 1st stage and plan based will become a norm. it will become the default. and then from there,

there will be more and more people going further and further until the people eating animal products, producing animal products will become at some point in the minority, it will become much more expensive to do that. at some point, it might become illegal. so i'm convinced that in years to come in decades to come, we will look back on this period and wonder what the hell we were doing with animals as food. thank you very much. oh, there are idealists and pragmatists in every social movement. pragmatists like to be asleep not demand less us than other activists. that's why this approach may at 1st seem kinder but you could say activists like fleet wish moon have a more positive image of humanity. they believe we can change of our own accord.

yamaha you them because it is omar. we make your summer barbecue super helpful. that's why the great meat debate ends at this abandoned slaughter house in southern germany after being exposed by so co tier shuts this operation had to close attrition soonest. fool allow me of course it's a good feeling not to hear the dreadful screams of to the pigs that came out of the pens there. and to be rid of this horrible stange that came from blood guts. not more than a little fear, this slaughter house. now it's a nice peaceful please love me. perfect. what if you trees grew out of the real flux and wooden but that could take some time. it's just been announced, the slaughterhouse is reopening. now, natalie, she is this mother. it's always like says the 1st one. it didn't roll the stone up the hill and it immediately rolls down again and you think i can't roll that back up to meet in order to be able to hunt together in groups. cooperative behavior

became increasingly important, anticipating exactly what the group expected of us developed into an evolutionary advantage. so, and this has become a part of us, a conscience that tells us what is right and what is wrong can. so in a way, the desire for meet gave us the ability to think morally in the 1st place. and ironically, there was much evidence today to suggest that this ability to think morally will lead us to 1000000 years later, to leave our desire from meet behind. ah ah with

with ah mm.

with who in the south sarah tourists and dream beaches in the north armed conflict and flights and those them being land of treasures and turmoil. what night the divided country and boost it's long way to recovery. in 15 minutes on d w with

a nice it's avalanche. my welcome to my podcast to love the matter that i and by celebrities influences and experts to talk about all playing loud effect from day to india. today. nothing less because all these things and more and the new season of the pot come, make sure it's a tune and wherever you get your podcasts and join the conversation, because you know it love matter. mm hm. who did you do the food i played? and i, sam. ah, she survived. oh, schmidt's thanks to music. and he was the nazis favorite conductor to musicians under the swastika, a documentary about the sounds of power and inspiring story about survival. music

in nazi germany. watch now on youtube, d. w documentary, guardians of truth. my name is john dinner and i have paid almost every price of being a journalist in a country like to key taking on the powers that be they risk everything. john dunn dar, asks activists, journalists and politicians living in exile too much on my shoulders. but i have to hold this weight because i'm responsible for the future fall country for the people who are behind the bus. they live for their mission. people need to know what is happening there in our series, guardians, of truth watch, know on youtube, d. w documentary ah ah

ah, this is dw news live from berlin vladimir persian visits occupied mary paul image is released by the kremlin a p to show the russian leader in the ukranian city, which russian forces captured in may. now this comes after an arrest warrant is issued again.