in 3 consecutive races, dating to last year's finale. you're up to date up next our series talk fun looks at the students' learning to make farming more human. don't forget, that's always more news on our website at w dot on and on a social media channels, a 100 for that is at the w news. i'm number suggests lot from me and the entire new steam behind the scenes. thank you for watching thing . hey guys, it's evelyn sharma. welcome to my podcast, love matter. but i and life celebrities, influenza, and experts to talk about all playing love back from day to india today. nothing's been left because all these things and more and then you will see them off the plot

. come, make sure to tune and wherever you get your pot path and join the conversation, because you know it who love matters. ah, ah, what secrets lie behind these walls? discover new adventures in 360 degrees and explore fascinating world heritage site. d w world heritage 360 kept now ah oh ah, you don't have to be an activist to know that something has to change the huge amount of meat we consume accelerates climate change in dangers our health and

causes billions of animals to suffer. i might want to count, it will be only a small minority of people believe that everything in the meat industry is fine. and just one 5th of people are opposed to a complete ban on factory farming. but humans are fickle. most of us are deeply affected when we see images of animals in distress. a stress test, a part of us feels like him. we're dying pick screaming, and dement change immediately. but another part of us reacts just like people on the other side. the state tastes a little worse today, but still far too tasty to do without. so how are we supposed to change the world

when we can hardly change ourselves? ah, i'm rosa. and once i picked up a chicken has been really, i'm julian has and i saw someone get spit on by a la la manuel project day at berlin schools when the war. i'm reuben, and i held a little baby goes in my arms up when i'm gonna am, class 5 be will spend the day looking at the relationship between humans and animals. oh, my graham, my neighbor has very cute rabbits and they always nibble on us, laid down. yeah. okay. yeah, this one is going to be yes, very nice,

i'm free to rica, and i once put sunscreen on a little pink him, i go to him. rodriguez, schmidt's is convinced young people are the key to changing the conditions in livestock forming adam and he was my goal isn't to convince you of my opinion or something going on. it's about you getting information and thinking for yourself what you think, what's your date on the field? often she sees children as future consumers, young citizens who will one day choose the kind of society they want to live in on mine, often august of 15 or to handle hits alonda and in austin. and i hope that we will abolish livestock farming in this country. or in industrialized countries and that we will do so in the next few years or decades. this is whether that's realistic or i always find that a funny question because it's just not at all realistic to go on as we are now. that came up. we are in the middle of a climate crisis keegan. of course we have to completely transform society in order to have any chance of continuing to live reasonably well here on this planet would

label to come. they start with 2 big circles because i love them. if it's a need that pigs and humans have, then you can sort of hang that here in the middle. after just a few cards, it becomes apparent that it's the middle that fills up the fastest finding needs that differentiate humans from pigs is harder than expected. such notice anything, anything you would change, that curiosity should come in the middle of monday and the rest of you is it something takes want to you or just humans matter that i had indeed picks a very curious, even more curious than dogs. i'd wondered 1st students see what pigs who are left to themselves will do

then comes the inevitable contrast at various stations, the children explore how pigs actually live when they're farmed. live also. must that be bad? that's totally how they try out how much space they would have as farmed pigments back. yeah. and you guys back up if you want. i know they learn that cells are kept in pens, they can turn around in for weeks and that most pig let's only live a few months on what. how do you think that feels for the big? oh, if we were trapped there and i think we would have killed ourselves in the barn block if we know that we're gonna die anyway in the next few years, i just get kind of not hot dashed. i don't know bagman. i know that it hit dashboard and there's no way to show it neatly as soon as you show reality, have you need to choose information table. then maybe we choose the more negative information instead of the positive in the dish. we don't say that the pigs, i mean it's hard to find any positive information. we don't, i say the pick lives,

have it nice and cozy under the heat lamp. that's what the pharmacy association says about. we say the pickets can nurse from their mother, kind of the mother can't take care of them, allow congress and they are taken away after a few weeks. so like a mom, they can never get outside. they can't you to round the ground. they never phase in a stream, they can only take a few steps back and forth and never walk across a field. the event is a, a inflexion. we choose this negative information because it's relevant to ethical reflection. as of yes, if everything were wonderful, we wouldn't need to talk about it at all and the problem of it, but i'm, and now you see that many animals are also tortures. yellow cleared van. so i try to eat less, mate. yes, i said, i'm back. i just thought it was stupid, i didn't know that before and the story behind it. but now we know it gets this edith. at lunchtime, the salami stays in the lunch box, but frieda leeker,

schmitz knows people who grow up in a world of animal products, don't change their habits in a day ish cloud, shonda fest by din can none off, but i do believe it moves the children somehow dozens of thomas and lasting a fact i'm and the few thoughts on a few seats have been so and i thought some things being triggered. i dropped it at the same time. we also noticed in the workshop, so how powerful habits can being shortened on the one hand and children are totally shocked about how badly the pixel kept on thumbs as all my effect later, when it comes to whether or not to eat meat, you don't go to for many of them, mostly they can do is to try and eat less meat letters. of course, i'd like to see more committed reactions. so it's not just that i think it's a shame what the children often say at the end, measured against my own opinions. but measured against what they themselves said, 2 hours earlier, a commission on the embassy there are federal for exact time as of conditioned implement, i simply can't imagine at that moment that they could no longer eat me less masking

con, it's not in the realm of possibility full of admission for the nevertheless, re delete their schmidt's believes in the power of a good argument. we all like to think that a good argument could make us change our habits. what, how much we are affected by these arguments depends a great deal on context. psychologists are found that people consider animals to be less morally wrong went if they've been given me to eat before the interview, eating animals, and at the same time, recognizing them morally, leads to cognitive dissonance in our minds. and to avoid it, our opinion adjusts to our behavior in and other study participants who were told they would soon meet a homeless person who needed their help, preferred to hear the most unemotional version of his life possible. oh,

on the other hand, those who did not know they would meet him in person. we're much more interested in the emotional details of his life. it is the same impulse we have when we avoid eye contact with someone baking on the street. science has a name for this effect, empathy avoidance, ah, well, coley hudson with common leadership moon, has been working for 27 years to make sure we remain empathetic theodore, thank you all for being here is, and here we're here to talk about this issue to her and i think i'm not alone in being outraged by not hot his animal rights organization, so co tears shirts. grace's public awareness of abuses in industrial farming. both he associates with what happened here has unfortunately brought i something i need to see again and again, i wouldn't have thought i'd ever see this extent of violence towards a helpless animals. you're my, the in this time it's about cows. sick animals are said to have been illegally

slaughtered at a nearby slaughterhouse. secretly filmed footage shows emaciated, cattle cold, downer cows being pushed across the floor one after the other. when they don't move, an employee beats them. when if you look here, now you can see the animal collapsed at some point of afflicted. people who came to the activists meeting can hardly believe this happened in their neighbourhood. unfortunately, we need to see this in full detail. it is very important that our be done. now he comes with a boat gun and fires at blood, so she's got a knife and a gun to kill or the throw to slit. companies usually keep this hidden. video cameras hoard saw english to heard about for how the video cameras high

fences, yeoman's, the barbed wire, learn security services, dogs. detecting the use all means have to hide what they're doing wrong. so most of i developed a strategy, m, and t. okay? you need a different approach from is that you must document at secret lines under cover like father sir, you have to seek in there and inform people so they can form an opinion, couldn't they should be ashamed of themselves? who is that? where does he live? you must not truly, personally, of course we have to protect their right to privacy, even the rights of wrong to her safety because it won't help any one if people try to take revenge. is the whole system get the a theory industry that systematically, wrecks animal by the museum was pleaded here that this democracy, caput leadership moon, sees the same patterns repeatedly, both of animal treatment and our reactions to it is often with him by for cancer up there. so much loved him with in canton. mentioned that with my pathetic st. or example that the issue of stick house i want the people say, of course that's extreme i'm but they feel to understand this as

a whole system bidding. it all goes together due to the conditions, the cows are kept in the are still bad. the animals are muscle. maximize milky lawanda, do their over bread and, and their lives are short. young. they get sick and injured quickly and become donor cose, the donor cose. i'm for are simply the other side of the dairy industry and is probably well probably in one hand, they produce milk on the other, the end up with donor camps. arnold's. i to comedy don accruals. after the meeting, the images stay in people's minds. many don't want to go home right away. laura alice, what a spontaneous vigil starts in front of a butcher shop. though him one of the my respect your don cushion as all really. yeah, i was very, very aha. named i and but make a commitment to try to get out of the system because people always tell me later, yes, i found a future i trust and it's much better. it's organic and all the rest of you, but it's just

a never ending cycle this. i've always the same over you over life. the people are screaming for vigilante justice on facebook and we have to hang him small. we should drone him. thank the harshest punishment you can give these people. even those buying broccoli in dom up locally called the goal isn't to shut down individual slaughterhouses. by the way, i've thought to say you guys are really great on a feel at all alive, but you don't want to chip away at societal support for the industry. in this forest in belgium, several dozen rescued animals live with activist topiary lane out turkey likes to look at himself in the mirror is always there marrying himself in terms of cases in the will moral cases, it's harder to it's hard to find any case that can be made better than the case where reagan is. i think i am unsure about so many things in the world,

i see black and white everywhere. but, and that's maybe what attracted me to dest. this field is that in, in this case i think i see a lot of clarity. i think i see. i see very few strong arguments to keep eating animals. and certainly i see numb for treating animals the way that we do. there are no arguments, no, no rational, no arguments that make sense. but still these arguments don't have the power to convince most people, of course that's, that is very frustrating for, for activists and for people who want to create this change. and so, yeah, rather than, than studying more and studying all these arguments and all these facts, you know, these facts are not going to sell this idea. his goal is the same as that afraid of acre schmidt and fleet which moon. but he believes there's a different way to achieve it. no,

there wasn't study among moral philosophers, professors in ethics. and am they asked his professors, or do you think that the eating of animals to killing and eating of animals can be morally justified? even though the study found that ethicists, who thought meeting was morally wrong, were clearly in the majority, less than half of them were vegetarians. in general, the philosophers, even though they spend all day making moral arguments when it comes to their actions, they're no different than other people. they don't donate more money or blood. they check in with their mothers just as rarely, and they leave their trash lying around. just as often what you see there is, is an example of this attitude behavior. get to have the right attitude to have the right ideas the right information. but still did, does, didn't translate into the right and behavior. so what i'm saying is that,

that we can also focus on the opposite thing. we can make sure that people change their behavior and that is by providing them with products that are just so great that they don't need any argument or reason to taste them accepted. they're good and then make them forget about what they loved so much and, and a moment they have a really good weekend taste experience. the thing is that they become a lot more open to the arguments for forgiveness. so in our actual dealings with people and animals, we make ethical decisions differently than in the abstract minds of philosophers. our reason isn't like a judge who impartially waste that fats and decides it's more like a lawyer who looks for arguments to defend our behavior. tobey us lena says that when we no longer feel defensive, we'll find the same arguments more convincing. we like to think that when we abolish slavery, that was just because of moral outreach. that was just because people were like fed

up and they said like we can treat our, our brothers and sisters like this. and we like to believe that was the only reason and that was certainly part of the reason it's important is moral outreach against injustice is important. but there were also other more pragmatic, more mundane re, reasons like this was also the time of day an industrial revolution. and so da da, steam engine was invented an am. it could be so in certain cases that an ultimate i solution a machine was cheaper than slaves. so you can imagine a slave holder saying like, ok, i have this alternative, i don't need my sleeves anymore. and we would say certainly now to day, well that guys is, is, is an asshole right? because now that he has a solution, he's gonna release his slaves. he should have done it much earlier, but dramatically we, we can be happy that that dissolution is darren the helps people and that,

that may be afterwards that helped these people realize. yeah, well actually this is wrong. we're at a new guy in cologne. it's the biggest food trade fair in the world with exhibitors from 98 countries. all the big companies are represented here. manufacturers proudly present their latest products. but among the enormous booths for companies featuring meat, you can find more and more vegetarian and vegan alternatives. i like to say something neatness. yeah. i view it. so leave. okay. what, what's the basis? it's me from piece he's okay. he's him. yeah. they like it. yeah. yeah. good extra. even though there are increasingly better alternatives to animal proteins, topya's sleigh not doesn't think we should urge everyone to become vegans right away. research shows that people only tried to change when they believe they can

actually sustain that change. some people would say like i could never least leave cheese and i would just say like, i mean yeah, just try that. i mean leave, keep eating the cheese and, and do all the rest. because if you say like, well yeah, it's all or nothing and no you have to give up cheese to because cheese is horrible for the animals, et cetera. chances are that they, they're not going to do anything so so. so there's a saying, if you ask for all or nothing, what you usually get is nothing. it's not about am one percent of people doing something perfectly. it's about millions of people doing something in perfectly, even just to people who only meet on the weekends would together have a greater effect than one vegetarian. and for toby, a sleigh, not the only thing that counts is the thing that works. i remember being in the hotel, it wasn't with a group of social change makers, but they were not vegetarian or vegan. and i had to give a talk about my topic and,

and the organizes asked like, ok, who's going to eat egan? and who's going to order of egan dish to night and they all put their hands off. and i said, oh no, please, because i had eaten in that hotel the night before and was terrible. the vacant for was terrible so. so i didn't want them to i wanted them to eat meat tonight because they're worsting that day. yeah. an enemy number one is bad. reagan fruit, if you give people that they get confirmed in their prejudices and, and we're just further away from them out for him. the path to a time after meet will mean decades of gradual developments and many compromises. you have to dare to break your own rules. pragmatism, in a way, is a testimony to how much you want to achieve those ideals you want to be. you want to sacrifice some things, you want to sacrifice some, some idealistic principles to get there. and you don't look at your own. personal

purity is totally honest. hello sir. hi. something i grimace learned. so you are, you're filming for a few minutes. yeah. there am. i making documentary on on the future foods are sci fi channel and i was wondering, you guys are traditionally amid company, but you're also getting into vegetarian vegan products. what's your i think that's very good and i think you're going to make alliances with people in parties, stakeholders, debt, and don't necessarily have the same ideas of you that am. i will go part of the way with you, but not all the way. okay, thank you. all right, thank you. we have to accept that is going to be imperfections. one thing i like to see is that a new system has to be built with money from the old system, you know, and it may seem very unfair that all these big food companies take,

take it quite so much money by yeah, killing animals and selling animal products and now then they going to like, also make a profit with these alternatives. now that they see that they're profitable, that is something that seems very a, just an almost infuriating and, but i, i'm afraid there is no other way. ah, ah, when toby us, they not imagines the future. he sees a slow but clear path to becoming meet free, more and more people reduce their meat consumption and opt for alternatives. the growing demand, finances new innovations meet alternatives, improved, causing even more demand. it's a self reinforcing system in the 1st stage and plan based will become a norm. it will become the default. and then from there, there will be more and more people going further and further until the people

eating animal products, producing animal products become at some point in the minority, it will become much more expensive to do that. at some point it might become illegal. so i'm convinced that in years to come in decades to come, we will look back on this period and wonder what the hell we were doing with animals as food. thank you very much. oh, there are idealists and pragmatists in every social movement. pragmatists like to be asleep not demand less of us than other activists. that's why this approach may at 1st seem kinder but you could say activists like felicia moon, have a more positive image of humanity. they believe we can change of our own accord.

yamaha you them because it is omar. we make your summer barbecue super super. that's why the great meat debate ends at this abandoned slaughter house in southern germany after being exposed by so co tier shuts this operation had to close latricia soonest fuel aladdin. of course, it's a good feeling not to hear the dreadful screams of the pigs that came out of the pens there. and to be rid of this horrible stange that came from blood guts. but when more than a little fear, this alters. now it's a nice peaceful please love me. perfect. what if you trees grew out of the reflection wooden but that could take some time. it's just been announced the slaughterhouses reopening. yeah. natalie. she is this. emma is always likes this. the 1st one. did you roll the student up the hill and it immediately rose down again, and you think i can roll that back up again, doug, but we've been doing it for decades yet. and i just see at some point the hill the back will be gone.

ah, there's a fascinating theory in anthropology, 2000000 years ago, our ancestors started eating meat in order to be able to hunt together in groups, co operative behavior, became increasingly important. anticipating exactly what the group expected of us developed into an evolutionary advantage. now and this has become a part of us, a conscience that tells us what is right and what is wrong can happen. so in a way, the desire for meet gave us the ability to think morally in the 1st place. and ironically, there was much evidence today to suggest that this ability to think morally, will lead us to 1000000 years later to leave our desire from me behind. ah

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