is laura seeing this report follows trafficking roots from the congo to vietnam, a d, w with our sports and scoring we say they're about giving up sports like every weekend on d. w. hello, lovely people. welcome to another edition of the 77 percent that show for africa youth majority. i am eddie micah junior. with now on this episode, we want to address the issue of child marriage. the un defines child marriage as

any formal marriage or informal union, between a child under the age of 18 and an adult or another child expert. see this threatens the lives well being and futures of girls around the world. most countries with the highest number of child marriages, ah, in africa, according to the un, about 41 percent of girls in africa, mary before reaching the age of 18. in zambia, it's not unusual for girls to be married and become pregnant before the 16th birthday on the street debate. we discussed child marriage in zambia and how it's being addressed. hello, very windy by the way, but we are in cattle lay in mood of zambia. some 2 hours drive away from the capital lusaka zambia, by the way, is one of 12 countries recording the most high prevalent cases in child marriages. some 29 percent rate icon for children been married off for various reasons,

especially in rural areas. like where we are in right now. today we're here to understand their stories behind those numbers and the realities on ground. and i'm going to start off with susan who walks with an n g o. and of course, they're also very involved in sensitizing groceries. communities talk to us about the situation of child marriage in zambia right now. what we have found on the ground that is the major cause. number one is the poverty levels. the poverty levels are so high that people just simply cannot afford to provide for their children. so once a girl child reaches puberty, they feel the best way is to get her married. really. and of course we have, madame bridget, who is the director of our children development at the ministry. and so if you're just going to give us a brief overview of what the actual situation is in terms of numbers as well, and why child marriage, eyes mostly predominant in terms of numbers,

i would like to say that since 2015 when the whole a, when is broke out, we were at 42 percent as a country and, and through their various interventions that we have done with communities with our partners. we have come down to $29.00. yeah, i'll come back to let me just come to study very quickly. as you said it, your coiling forwarded castration of any man that abuses a child. isn't that hash enough? why do you one that it has to be hush. it has to be hush. why would somebody sleep with a child? i'm a mother under pain that i felt. if somebody abused oh, defiled my daughter out, castrate them, i still insist on that. why not a here i am was actually married of at the age of 15. by the way. vine, i tell us. what was the situation like for you? what led to your marriage at that age? gentle jason, when i got married because of poverty, did you want it away? you forced? no, i wanted it. so you wanted to be married?

yes. do you feel that you would steal? wouldn't to be married or you would have wished a different situation for you at that age? i don't deny it any more. why, why don't you want to be married animal because i am too young to be made and i was taken out of the my job and the authorities. korean you are 15. is that correct? the same age that vanna good married. at this age, would you want to be married? i thing for me personally, i would say no because i've been a girl child. i believe to say there is more to life than getting married at the very young age. ah, one of the reasons why i wouldn't want to get married is there health to risk that i would face ab in marriage and also violence that i would face in marriage? i will never come to you. cecilia also walking with these children. empowerment is very much key, but let's also understand the circumstances here. we understand that there are even graveyards for children who are married off. how do you see that as a child right?

advocate? i think that's a very, very sad situation. i would consider them by a very deadly place to raise a child in it came to our attention that these actually a religious sect that believes and condones marrying off of, of children very young from 9 years old. and going up to men that a much older than them and obviously with the children's quote act now in place criminalizing the act, they are beginning to withdraw. and we are beginning to learn that now the religious leaders themselves actually be becoming advocates. one of the very 1st things they do before they even begin their services was to speak again. okay, mary, i'll come back, but i'm less also come back to you in terms of really the laws at that to buy and child marriage in the country. you have your statutory laws, you also have your customary laws, but at a very much i liked and what is really the age for manage here in zambia. okay, very low. now as i speak to you under the childrens court act aligned,

when the code a prohibits child marriage, it's customer lee and statutory. so that law was so pretend over order laws that talk about child marriage. but you still have, you still have the communities that actually banking on their, these customer you laws even though the actual law did the statutory law issues to proceed all the laws. but then when situations like this happened and what action do you take as a govern adds government days a punitive that comes with that. for example, under the education act a, we are mandatory to arrests, a person who takes out a child out of school to get them into marriage for 15 years, maxwell, they can go in for that. let me just come to the police office. i do actually arrest people, obviously we do. that's our duty. we enforce the law. how i children getting married? is it actually their philippines or dis, intergenerational marriages that is happening usually you find in very urban set ups? someone marries children america of the older man for exchange of sorry,

and this is the case where you find families are living in poverty. so they went to be helped out of poverty, so they let their children go in order to reduce the number of feeding and also to just get some income from that. and i think where we need to start is actually change the term from child marriage. because how is it making sense? a child getting married, you know, marriage was supposed to be a union is supposed to be a union of people oda, able to make decisions and are physically able to give up. you know, do you know, people who are actually able to make sure that the, they, they leave to the, you know, term of marriage itself and everything it requires. and i'd like to also just add a comment to what their policeman had said. it's very interesting what police men in zambia are doing. so you'll find that when something like this comes up, maybe there is a development case of a child or something has happened though, arrest the person. yeah. but then they'll only be in custody for a short period. next thing you see the person is out roaming on the streets. now, can you imagine how that is dragging us back in the fight against, you know, trying to measure the touch out. marriage is abolished that very interesting point

. catherine, of course, even mad a child mad, it is a case of defilement at what age should we, children give or people give consent to sexual activity, ends up. ok. so according to the penal court of section $158.00 ah, development am means am having an off gun unless we fig girl below the age of 16. 16 years, but and up, what is the matter was the limit for mattie should looking at his statutory log. okay. so when it comes to the secretary or civil marriage, it means edwin twenty's and them. yes. but i find that a little bit conflicting because if marriage is set back the twin to one, yes. and then you can consent to sex at 16 years, but at another 8, none away. i also see that 18. yes. yes, you can mattie, at the age of 18 years in another case. so days sort of a confuse on in your law as they are. but how do you interpret this as police? okay, though i should mentioned, oh, we have a statutory civil merge and then there is also a customer married so i couldn't do customs. customs differ from one place to

another. thought sam can see that it go red before marriage as long as they reach true, but the, obviously yes, so that's where the challenge is. you want to add something. there's been instances where children, especially goes to get married willingly. so these happens when they have a boyfriend or she'll get edgy. so instead of been in school, especially those in boarding schools, the pines think vein school. meanwhile, they are at the guy's place, a dad the boys live and it ends up being a marriage because parents don't want the child to bring shame to the family. they end up being more like it made, they end up cooking cleaning and also been beaten by this. a man who promised them might, at the end of the day, they become more like his live. but why they have the graves just so maybe if they possibly have the kids, they have them. they are indoors. grieve. yes, yes, i think that's um, one of the reasons because most of the goals that die in his mind just die out of g

b, v. gender best violence. so instead of them being put together, send symmetry, they end up being put differently. having that one gave interesting, yes. you want to add some? yes. so you find that when a girl becomes of age women without asking her, when are you getting married? your friend is 17 years old. she already has a daughter. what are you thinking about that? so you find that people as people constantly talk about that children get to feel like they're obliged to get married and then that in turn makes them go into marriages willingly. i'm says, yeah, let's talk about the gender restrictive norm stand. how pits yackel in nature is the zambian society because it looks like there's a power imbalance here. yes, actually in the rural areas, because culturally we've only seen the man as the head of the house and he makes all the decisions. while the women are very passive, they are considered 2nd class. that's culturally. but of course now with it the coming of women's human rights and you know, gender equality and gender equity. things are beginning to change

a little bit because there are organizations like advocacy for child justice, all kinds of such organizations that are going out in the rural areas and raising awareness so that women aware of their rights are aware that they also amount to something and they, because it can become something that will need to be 2nd to us. so mila seizure is saying, is that your work as sharon activists is actually gaining meaning an impact in this community? is that correct? yes, it is. so am, and another issue that don't to comment on is that dish of polygamy polyandry, the country so discovered to see that as us children, we learned from what receipt. so here's a father, he's married to $5.00 to $5.00 women and then did it dang asked, our wife isn't probably 18 years what it means that even the true wester that to be true. so i think that is one problem that this will address. and i think that is important. lemme come to you madam bridget, because if children i shall, emulating what they see, what i also realize is that these children are expose to initiate and ceremonies when they wish puberty as early as 91112. and he been taught how to please

a man and how to take care of a home is in that abusive enough. ah, that is why in the children's court are there is a particular and specific close referring to culture rights, traditional rights as well as religious rights. because we've seen the damage that it as close to the community. and one to enforce this by strengthening the laws that provide that. all right, let me just come in just a quickly let me just come to assist id. you think what she is saying at madame bridget, that they are actually had rolling out plans to be able to address this miss much. do you think this will make any difference? well, i hope to see a difference because what my worry is. yes, we are getting these young bills out of marriages, but what are we doing for them? what is their recreation? you know, what do they see in the environment that the best they're going to see if, if it's not raining, they're not in the garden, then they are waiting to be married. when are we bringing people who have gone from this village? you know, one nurses, while police officers to come and show these young people to say it is possible, it can be done. so i think we need to look at terms

a wider range of how we're going to talk on the issue of child marriage rather than we just withdraw his child than what his next thought. so the socio economic structures are not in place really to prevent these children from getting married. do also agree to that? yes, i do because i'm in most cases, even in other areas, is that of having a library, we have a lot of buzz. they end up been having like i engaging as those in drugs and on either end of the day, the ends up been in their minds and also just to, um, i don't to what, as soon as you're and says that he said in hahn's, you know, days may have changed, but our minds have not with teach hydrogen to say a godaddy supposed to love the color pink and white. are they supposed to other color blue when barnes are buying toys for their children? they're buying and cars for their guys and they're buying doors for the ladies for the goes, what is that teaching the goes a guy supposed to be in the kitchen, going supposed to have children to bait children. a guy is not supposed to drive.

so we need to change what we believe we need to change our minds. it, it all. that's when the mindset. all right, let me just come to am them bridget here because they're making very valid points in terms of also school facilities because this kids are supposed to be in school and not in manages how accessible have you brought these educational facilities that you have? i saw this time, schools are free, so we update yet and funds to ensure that this child does a bit of pocket money transport money to get them to school. so we have that program running, all right? yes. you and it says something. yes. and i, when it comes to education, i would say education is debt, but not a good quality education. because in most of the schools, when you start going round, you'll find that they do not have enough facilities that can acquire children to have a good education that makes them, i'm live school and preferred to get married at a very young age. i feel government has done a lot really in trying to bring it back goes that goes back to school in terms of paperwork, but then like, implementation as a government, i feel there is

a lot as do needs to be done. even though we've made progress. now, but i few, it shouldn't have taken us 17 years for us to be knocked to children's good bill. if you are really interested in the affairs of the children in the country. you know, so i feel like other than the paperwork that we're doing, i must make sure that when we put something on paper, the implementation is thera, as is as thorough as them about their planning is. i mean corin what you have to say to that, did you also believe that there really these laws arena been implemented? i feel i'm to say they are being implemented, but so far there is no much change because like in such areas where we are, if we start shaking how many schools in this area, they are not enough to content everyone in this area. so i feel i'm more school supposed to be billed so that each and every girl child can have an opportunity to to go back to school. they can not give an excuse to say i, we never had spaces in school dusters. and why i never went back to school. i'm, let me just come back to you in terms of the social economic structures that are there to ensure those that are retrieved from these marriages,

have the capacity to stand on their own. do you agree that this has been yielded much dividends at the local level? they can be given, the crushed transform like the director was, is saying. but what are they going to do with it's do that professionals are going to teach them if they want to start a business. you know, if they, they want to venture into a set of activities who is teaching them. so for me, i think it's important that even as this goes, i retrieved from early marriages, they need safe spaces as best way to day. i run away from home because somebody wants to marry me off and i find a space swell eats we all, sleep. we out the a shelter so it's very important that those or those things are, are put in place korean as a go child, do you feel you have a safe space in this country? ok, for me i made say, ah, we have done. it is not a 9 to 9 percent self because what is a safe space to you? i'm for me, a self place is a place where every child has good access to good quality of education. i lot

other age of early marriages or teenage pregnancies. it child wheat free in our own country. but when you look at all these i indicate was that korean has mentioned, is it, did it dawn, signify that based on everything we've said, that safe spaces are very much lacking for these children. i will talk about we have an adolescent health strategy which creates so space of course, it's soon more in relation with sexual health, reproductive. we've established that the strategies are there, the policies, but i hear people really going and making sure that these structures are actually practical. yeah, our so tell you that we have almost a 91 stop centers where such cases are handled by a social phase. they're a police officer, they're in nurses there and i the out to much is that the child would receive all these help and then the social welfare would take it up to ensure that they are now . okay. okay, let me just feminist, come, i'm just going to come to millennial quickly. you tell me is,

is the government really upholden? it's promised that he has made to children, especially to girls in the different conventions that they've signed. and the policies that div inactive would you say they really uphold in their promise made to children, especially to girls because they are the most vulnerable? no, they're not. they're not. yeah. so if they knew this and within augment richard, this could be, must have a must have the key players in this issue or the csr sissy versus that are going to additions. and then imagine a scenario where they got, i'm interested to come to monday to see if we are going to be there to the front end as of promoting the triggers. could act, making it away at 2 each and every go outside and boats out in the country. imagine a scenario we are, the government is lave when television discussing issues to do 3rd, the trainers could do that. that alone is going to do to, to make sure that before i can see the interest that the government has in their rights and will be no video of, of, of richard. what you're saying is then a being very much practical about these laws. do you agree as well? yes, i actually agree. and i feel like if we treat this matter as the pandemic,

that's like covered 19 you, you know, we saw a lot of sensitization government holding on press briefings here and there every day we had updates on what is going is being done in order to protect children in the country, i mean in order to measure that, you know, they protect the people in the country. if we can have, you know, says deposition that wide, we can have material on, on tv every day. we can have material on social media material on radio, about that children's quote accidental information can be sent to the gretchen grass roots and the people at the on the grass which will be able to make sure that they implement. and they also spread the message as they can so that everyone in the, in the villages and everyone in rural and urban areas is protected very much so. so sensitization is key. but also as up associations are actually walking towards disregard. do you feel you're getting much support from your partners and even government in, in driving more to resources to discuss lead initiative? yes, i believe the government is doing the pot and everybody has it has to be concerted efforts. so religiously does have to come in and do the pot we have the

traditionally does have to come in with a very strong voice. knowing that the greater part of where these child marriages or where these marriage is a to place of young people are in the rural areas. so if traditionally desk would stand up with a strong voice against this and dissent, a weird because their word is law in india, in their chief domes, i believe we are going to see a lot of results in. and one of the things that we've come to realize is that when the child is retrieved from, from, from the marriage. of course, if she is not of school going age or if she feels she could, she not handle school. how are we going to support that? we had the so the social cash transfer from the government then from organizations like ourselves, advocacy for child justice, we have what we call empowerment programs. so we send those to a children to go to a place where they can acquire skills. they can go get a diploma, a certificate like to get a certified, and then we support them. it may be just to add on. there is also a help from the government as also tried to make sure that the make up for young people and you to obviously come from target situations. so on,

you'll find that they will, they have this c d f fund, which youths can tap into and young people, especially those that are retrieved from. don't shout marriages can tap into in order to make a living for themselves. because what happens if it's out is retrieved from south marriages, what happens then? you know, there will go back into something that is almost dead as deadliest out marriage. it could be stealing on, could be something even worse. so i feel this fund is very important and it should be rolled out efficiently for everyone to benefit and for children to be protected as well. we need, i don't know if i would say rehabilitation centers where after the marriage you check that goes out for if necessary therapy. i child or high childhood was taken away from huh. so we need these things as after that this and then after they've been retrieved from the marriage, that least change. they need therapy. how to deal with people that to shut them after their marriage. so this and as i really need, and i, and i feel like government has a lot to do apart from just sensitizing and i'm putting up pro guns to

a full policy. and your fall is, is yes. i mean you. now let's, let's move to the solutions. you've heard everything. we've heard the courses and what children are really going through. but now you have this a cord. am children coat act. what does that mean now going forward, where are you willing to take this? i feel the 1st thing that the government mr. dote needs to do, 1st of all is make sure that they address the root cause of child marriage, which is poverty. so addressing poverty is going to take a lot of effort from not only the government alone, but other civil society and keep less of it, the citizens themselves. you know, so we need to make sure that we address poverty and also make sure that re sensitized communities, about child marriages, and the horrors of todd marriages. and also make sure that as we sensitized them, we take away something that is horrible and give them something that they can use in order to help them develop as a community. and also just make sure that children enjoy their rights as to do things. sensitization would be enough for this. a sensitization is a very, very key aspect. and i'll take it down to just something very basic. just our human

rights. how many people out there even know what their rights are? how many even know what he's provided for in the constitution of the land? how many know what he's provided for in the married act? how his marriage a defined? how many know now in with the children's quote act, i know the government is actually planning to, to, to go out and really disseminate this. but what i would like to say is we need to deal with the principality of ignorance. ignorance is very good, wesley, because the ignorance is simply because people don't have opportunities, they don't have access to information or in a place like this. there is no electricity. so they, even, they just have, you know, those funds that they cannot really access the internet all that information that some of us have the privilege of getting yes. what to say something as well in terms of the solutions going forward, what would be your take? yes, so if, if in is that, um, you know, in order to decor something down, if you want to cut down a tree and prevented from ever going back to katie from, from, from, from there it's, you have to approach it. so imagine a scenario where

a boy no to see sud marriage is illegal, it's, it's a, it's, it's a criminal offense and it soon be properties and de larry did at any point. then what would of a generation that is going to do to, to complete, you indicate the issues of todd marriages in that thing that after ticket of his m government as really prevented is miss, we are see us was, can really operate. we need to fight to speak, the fed going to be entered by government and on. so the government as in initiative to provide indicate espia difference. yes. was can actually operate and a grid more awareness and an underwrites and will be enough to do more of it. that's very important here. scoring. what will you tell your fellow girls you are speaking to your fellow girls now? what would you tell them? i'm personally, i would say i'm been a girl child. i believe in education. if you get educated, you can become poor. you want to be getting married at a very young age, isn't a good thing. i think of in just a term. ah, child. married supposed to be changed because it is something that is very serious

. took tool. it's an every young person out there. i would say get educated and leave a better life while we hide it all. it is a very serious problem that is happening in africa, especially here in zambia. and from what the kids have said from what you've heard from the children as well under stakeholders. this is not a happy situation, the government is doing so much with their so much more that can be done because the situation is dire and hopefully we can expect something better to come out of this. thank you so much for watching. see you some other day. bye bye. thanks for optimal osi for the discussion. countries must indeed make it a priority to address child marriage that is necessary to improve martino and child health, and to give millions of girls the opportunity to reach the off for potential. now will leave you with a song by rachel m about girls writes, how fittin i am eddie micah. julia, thanks for your time. ah,

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a someone else to the tv highlights selected for you. knew every week in your inbox, subscribe now. ah, this is did all the news live from the in the united nations condemns the abuse of prisoners in the war in ukraine. human rights watch dogs say both sides have been carrying out summary executions of troops captured on the battlefield. also coming up, the activist who inspired the oscar nominated film hotel wanda.