send us lafond alliance as the e. you need to reduce its dependence on beijing, but stops shores of calling for a full decoupling. and empty apartment blocks high, the crisis in china's property market feel for people on the ground. this is dw business. i'm kate ferguson. thanks for joining me. time as latest quarterly growth figures arrived on they're better than expected. the economy grew 4 and a half percent year on year between january and march. the rise was driven by strong exports and a rebound in retail consumption after authorities lifted most to pandemic restrictions. unveiling the figure as china's official statistics bureau described them as a good start would said the foundation for economic recovery was not solid. yes. night baked us all down fast that spring in our china expert clever. it couldn't say very good to have you with us. it's interesting to hear tine as own official

statistics bureau saying the recovery is not on solid ground. what are the weaknesses they're pointing to their? well, i think they tend to talk of the figures as you mentioned, you know. so the fact that they do indicate weaknesses is significant. i think what you're seeing on the, on the plus side, you're seeing that there's a post covert bands happening. people are going out to eat again. and people are going to the shops. again, they're buying retailers up. but the weaknesses we're seeing are things like cars. they're still weak and i think the big challenge for the, for the chinese economy is going to be external factors. the fact that the global economy is still weak and china is still very heavily dependent on external factors . so am we also have issues like use unemployment which shows that people aren't hiring yet, and a lot of the growth is coming through credit creation, which means that we could be looking at debt problems down the road. so it's a very mixed picture, even if the headline figure is more positive than expected. right. so a huge number of structural issues there. but at the same time the figures are better than unless had been expecting. how do you square that?

well, i think, i think basically what we're seeing is, 1st of all, the fact that last year was dire, it was really, really bad. the economy was shrinking and known was going out, am. and so i think we're also seeing that april is looking good. and we're going to see am quarterly growth in the 2nd quarter is also looking quite good. some economists are looking as high as 6 or 7 percent growth in that. but am the problem is still going to be things like investment and we still need to see retail a proper retail rebound and need to see the property market really take off. and once those things kick in, i think then you'll have a clearer picture of how the economy is going to go. ok, so clever. stay with us for a minute, because i'm going to come back here because europe has also been re a facing it's economic license. it was china, both in the wake of the pandemic, and because of beijing's refusal to condemn russia's war in ukraine. our report matters. quitman is at the hanover traitor,

and he's asked people there if they think european companies have become too reliant on china. here's what they had to say, special and tell them that it would be smart to manufacture more in europe. they would shorten delivery routes, which would also be good for the climate karone i showed our dependence for supply chains collapsed and that was that and by and i would say not really in the last few years or less than 10 years ago in my opinion, where did you see this shift? the shift after being called, in my opinion, and the chinese increase in technology that also increasing costs. so the gap is a bit lower than any other gal. ok, so some mixed use that tiny uses a template, sorry you have been watching, tie net for many years. have you seen a difference in how european businesses are viewing the country? i think what's really interesting about about some of these remarks and we've seen it generally is that there's a big difference between what small and medium sized enterprises. the middle stands

in germany, for example, thinks about the china market and what the big companies like v w and siemens and b s f. think about the chinese economy. and i think what we're seeing is there's a more realistic approach along the middle stand. they're worried about their technology being stolen. they're worried about competition. they're worrying about being priced out of the market. or is the big companies are investing, we had a huge $1000000000.00 investment today by, by b, w, in china. so m a in, in many ways, they're sort of the gap between the geopolitical realities and economic realities seems to be getting wider and wider. things haven't really changed that much among the big companies. or no one's asked the question, what will they do if, if china bates, taiwan, or if there's another crock down in shinji young? or if there is more aggression in the south china sea, all of these issues which could make the china market extremely difficult for, for companies from europe. a bit like we saw with european companies operating in russia. and nobody seems to be asking these questions, particularly among the bigger companies. although as,

as some of these remark showed that the smaller companies are more aware, i think of, of the economic realities of the interesting discrepancy. there is not typically in thank you so much for your insights and europe's relationship with china has also been a topic of debate at the european parliament today. here's how european commission president was left on the line assessed the current status, this international and economic status. as well as our own interests, make it all the more important for europe to manage it's relations with china. and for me that also shows that decoupling is clearly not liable, desirable or even practical for europe. but as i said back in january, and as i said out in more detail a few weeks ago, there is clearly a need for europe to work on di, risking some important and sensitive parts of our relationship. let's find out what

that means. in concrete terms, d, w, correspond leticia, and have been following that debate closely. the tier, what is the difference between d whisking and decoupling a relationship? yes hi. so decoupling means eventually ending a relationship. whereas d risking means managing the relationship as we have already heard from was a life underline herself. so what she means with that is, is in a nutshell, getting more independent from china in certain areas, such as when it comes to raw materials, but also to protect better critical infrastructure. as she mentioned today in the european parliament that it has to be avoided. that certain technologies, certain expertise of europe in companies would be used by a systemic rival. so this is all a discussion that is going on how to de risk this relationship. and she has been pointing out certain certain ideas here. she's also been mentioning a tool to better protect critical infrastructure,

and this is what they mean when they talk about di, risking and the t e. u countries have different individual relationships with china . do you get a sense that there's any real unity on how to deal with china on in economic level? yes, you have to differentiate between foreign policy and trade policy. so when it comes to foreign policy, it is really up to the member states to a certain point, what they do in their relationship is shina. and then there's trade policy in the trade policy. it is a competence off the european union. so there's also this call today of was a laugh, wonder line to really be united in the strategy against china. and i understood this call also ethical to that you institutions as she was talking in the parliament. but also to the u member states. she said that it has to be avoided, that china conquers and he writes the european union. i've been speaking to an analysis before, and he said that all you member states would agree on the fact that they have to do

risk. but the way how to get there, that is something they have not yet found their common way. all right, let's hear hilton. thank you so much. now for years china's property sector seem to be on an unstoppable up for it. trajectory. local authorities cashed in on the sale of land to property companies, which in turn benefited from cheapest state backed money. but since 2021 slower home sale than part driven by the pandemic lead to a crisis. and the eventual collapse of real estate giant every grant. the lingering effects are everywhere to be seen with entire apartment blocks lying empty, or only sparsely inhabited. here on the outskirts of the coastal city of dol yawn, these concrete towers are eerily. i'm d. a man overseeing the solitude kirtley informs us that

the money has run out. but this girl takes us into her home for years. this construction has been stalled. even though it was supposed to be finished in 2016 for this family, there's no alternative to living in this shell. they took out a large loan to buy the apartment and they no longer have another home. they try to make themselves as comfortable as possible, but this is their life now. them e mail. yeah, i don't mean there's no solution. yeah, i, you know, how would we find out who's responsible for this? our financial situation is not good to complain or go to court would cost too much . people who have money could certainly do better than the one to fall. they have when they're left with little choice, but to freeze during the cold months to get water and electricity. they've been tapping the pipes that lead to a neighboring factory. empty buildings are

a part of the landscape and china. in the last 15 years, more homes have been built than anywhere else in the world. but there's a huge over supply. it's a well known pattern, local governments sell land to real estate companies and raking the cash. the problem with that system is as long as prices go up, you always win, but the moment prices start going up, or the moment the government says you, you have to stop borrowing, then the whole thing collapse. we've arrived at a real estate fair. recently corporations have been allowed to take out loans once again. business continues after all, the industry counts for a 3rd of the entire chinese economy. broker's present opulent new apartment projects as over indebted corporations look for ways to boost their income. once again. the promises of luxury living have not materialized in other parts of the

country. 2000 kilometers to the south in the city of han protesters are demonstrating outside of a government building. angry buyers, taking a stand is not uncommon. their apartments were supposed to be ready last year, and many can no longer afford the delay. the police break up the gathering, the homeowners had no choice but to wait. awful has opened its 1st store in india. c yell at him, cook was in for a surprise at the opening when a loyal customer presented him with an early macintosh computer from the 1980s. you'll think sophie increased importance of india, not only as a market from also as a manufacturing site for the i phone maker as it tries to reduce its dependence on china. and that wrap the pie. so thank you so much for watching. take, ah

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a democratic movement. and communist authorities indulged them at 1st, beijing spring in 75 minutes on dw. imagine home, any portion of blood a 3rd out in the world right now. climate change, if any, off the story. this is my flex, the way from just one week. how much work can really get we still have time to go. i'm going all with flux with his subscribe along with that has to put did you do before? i change the channel. fantastic. she survived. oh shabbots. thanks to music. he was the nazis favorite conductor. to musicians under the swastika,

a documentary about the sounds of power and inspiring story about survival. music in nazi germany, watch now on youtube. d. w documentary. oh ah . this is the w news coming to live from berlin. will sedans, warring parties, respect to 24 hours see spar heavy fighting? it was seen in cartoon right up until the temporary truce was due to start and it's still unclear if the cease fire will hold also on the program for russian court denies fail.