ah, currently more people than on the news worldwide in such a better life as a committee a a 2nd, is that okay to stay? nanda bernice and one to find out about me being a story in some my things, reliable news for migraines. wherever they may be, have been almost 5 months of virtual stalemate on the battlefields of ukraine. and yet, europe and america are clear that key f one gets the fighter aircraft and long range weapon systems. it was. so what's the ground on the scene from brussels? is that one? my guest is shall michelle, president of the european council. this is very clear that we do every thinking of

the, to guarantee with the yellow sovereignty into each of you create it. me the richer we create with and what about the confusion over you policy on china? president macro says taiwan. isn't your business? europe is foreign policy chief says it really is whatever happened to unity in the european union. savish are welcome to come. thank you. let's talk 1st about the war in ukraine. if we may, for the past few months, has been very little movement on the battlefields. if you crate, the west you included has given large amounts of aid and weapons, but clearly not enough to move the war in key of direction. is that the danger now that you're beginning to normalize a stalemate is very clear that on the use side you are determined to do everything to support your credit, which is retained. and you're absolutely right. it's a very tricky for the start of the food stamp division launched by russia. we

decided to provide military equipment the 1st time in european union history. the 2 took such a decision. and since then together we are partners our allies across the world. we provide military support to ukraine. we provide financial means to ukraine. we help ukraine on my 3 sites to move you to one of the example 2 weeks ago we to the decision to work together. you members to produce ammunition because we feel that is needed to strengthen our defense industrial base . you know that to speed up and you're absolutely right. that is important to do everything to, to accelerate the effort. this is really important that the ukrainians made the shows to resist the extremely true interest and this tragedy for them. and this is what i would do. our responsibility is to do everything we turn, you know,

the to assist to, to support them. and of course, they're not, they're not impressed with the relationship with you at the moment. ukraine's foreign minister dmitri labor has complained bitterly that the e u was failing to implement its own decision on the ammunition to purchase ammunition for the country. because member states were arguing over which suppliers they should actually and since, and sign a contract. and since that statement made by me for, for the fact we had your titian to clarify with, you can authorities, you know, that was wasted. we are, we are trying to turn to prison to winston and was the ukraine authorities and i 10, we assure you that the know that we are we label friends and we label part and also know that this is a magic bullet. we do everything to speed up, we have taken significant political decisions. the very clear that there's a 20 political on this you side to, to, to, to, to be active. no support to quit,

but the reality. there was no magic bullet. for instance, we need to make sure that we will produce more ammunition in the weeks and months to come. mr. columbus, deputy andrew melnick says that war fatigue among you members is now the biggest challenge for his country. there's a feeling he said that now the tank issue has been settled. people can put their feet up. a lot of them still don't understand that the war is far from over. is the right to worry about war fatigue in the, you know, it is very clear that we need to convince our citizens across, you know, what state is the future of the european union, the future of our citizens, our security, our prosperity. but look, if we look at the situation a few months ago and absolutely convinced that the proteins generation was the wolf,

a t y, the impossibility for the european union to stick together to be united in, retook putting at a criminal by surprise. because we are able to stick together, we are able to have the support of a public opinion across the european union. and we were able, we have been able to, to, to, to, to, to, to stick together with our northern america allies and other partners across the well, you say that, but your foreign policy chief, you, as a barrel said, recently forging and maintaining unity against russians invasion has not always been easy. some states complained others disagree, but in the end we maintain the unity. so you've papered over the cracks. what, what could open those cracks up again, this is, this is a very clear that unity it which was a lot of effort. but the fact all the facts we've been able for instance, to sanction russia, you remember that a lot has been set on some of of fragmentation. on the new side,

we took decisions all together on 10 packages of sanctions. and we are implementing the speculations of sentence, we are working all together to localize the international community on the international stage. we are working with africa within defense issues with that in america, in order to explain to argue, to try to convince sometime that you have done a lot on sanctions. can i just, you know, make a point here, but you're still using vast quantities of russian oil supplied mainly by laundromat countries. these are countries that loaned the oil from moscow and sell it on to you. china, india, turkey, you a and singapore, you know about this, have a look. we're buying wounded russian or what was, what was the situation a few minutes to do? only a few minutes ago, we were on the european so broadly, dependent on the russian forces hughes and only assume that we succeeded to 2

decisions in order to, to reduce our dependencies and the doors to end the dependencies on the russian. aggression for infuses why did we close this? why didn't you close this loop? this is what we are doing. you are working very hard to close all the different loopholes with please, would you prefer the european union? nothing to position to guarantee the supply of energy resources for our businesses, for our host, or would you prefer the collapse of the european union? i suppose it is not what you are advocating for, and it's why we need to be reasonable to be rational and to be determined is exactly what we are doing. on the one hand, we do not last our long term strategy. we want more renewable energy on you said we want, we want more independence in terms of energy policy on your site, but also to make sure that we defend our eternity based to defend the social

situation of our citizens. you mentioned the risk of war fatigue and you are right is important to work in order to avoid being victim of such a which is free, one to 2, to support for citizens. this is important to demonstrate that you are working, you know, the also to overcome the energy challenges, for instance, you know, but if you want to do something about war, fatiguing the time for a clear explanation of the use strategic objectives for ukraine and russia. plenty of generalized promises we've heard from the you, you told ukraine in february the european union will support you in every way we can for as long as it can. i can i just ask the question for as long as what takes, what exactly does this promise mean? this is clear. and the way you are austin nutritionists. interesting because it show that i'm not exactly following your approach in our approach that you which has the responsibility to, to decide when it to but you made the promise to please,

please let if you didn't do it in transferring. attrition, i will, i will answer. we split your question, we should the ukrainians, they have the responsibility to just suffering, turn 3 to the site when and the way in which the enemies, you know, the to, to assist. when this is time to, to, to, to, to open a new, a new chapter and it's why we are supporting this piece formula developed in proposed diapers lindsay. lindsay. and it's why also support this idea to have an international piece so meet in order to defend the ukrainian position in spite by what we believe in the move to the throughout all the was boost international older the territorial integrity and sovereignty of the different of nations. because the work is the you scared of russia. you said in february, we're not intimidated and will not be intimidated by the kremlin because ukraine and the e u r. family. but the truth is that west is very much intimidated by russia. isn't

that the only reason for not giving care of the weapons at once? is your fear of escalation and perhaps of nuclear conflict. and this is very clear, you remember at the beginning of the war launched by russia. this was important for us on the one hand to support ukraine, on the other hand, the to be part in 2015 other to, to avoid and the we stuff escalation. and he's very clear. i take the example of the nuclear weapons. it's streaming fun when we indifferent china, for instance, another to convince the internet community china included and to be very fun. and we clear the use and even the threat of nuclear weapons is not responsible. and we need to do everything in order to make sure it will not be used when we support the united nations in separation. for instance, another to prevent any resources tradition. it shows that you are serious, we are responsible and again, the ukrainians. people in the u. k,

so they know exactly what you're doing to know that to help them to resist. we're more than a year into this war, which may well define europe, security architecture for generations to come. and we're still not sure what the use objectives are so. so what is the big plan? because what scenario do you envisage? eternal war, frozen conflict? after all the killing and destruction, these 2 countries are not going to just shake hands and be friends. are they? what, what, what's the big plan for if this war, when this war finally comes to the bitch plan and the promise of european justice, security, and prosperity and the sufficiency extremely easy, easy and difficult to implement? you absolutely right. but it's also what we do to what is been doing for ditches across the european. but this is very, very clear that what we face is

a tragedy 1st for the ukrainian people. so didn't you test an impact on the security and prosperity across europe? and it's why i strongly believe in what we told the strategy to autonomy of the european i think it to this to fit is showing that is really important. what in 3 different trends? first, energy, energy independence don't need to explain a lot why you so important. and this is very clear is the $1357.00 point european defense together. we need to, we can natal. but it is very clear and we are acting that what we did in the past on the european. so when some members do decided to us, we use the investments in defense. we can see to do, we need 3 to tours. we need to try to tip abilities. it means that we need more cognition, the repeated level, and point 3, innovation it to them based know that guarantee to prosperity. these are the 3,

the 3 major pillars. and we have a vision. why? because we found that the future of ukraine, and we'll go over this, we seem to, you did, is a very clear message. this is a very clear plan for the future of the printer and wow, presence. and he's not getting all the weapons he wants. but what if you can start losing? this was the contingency plan for that. what if russia against the old starts winning more battles on the ground occupying further territory? what if you wake up and it's too late to get, get ukraine, the weapons, it needs a russian victory cannot be an option. and this is why we support you create and i've understood that you have your own impression about what we are doing. i tend to, in to you that all the members this order you were to leaders didn't know what's it fit. i will say you will not let when are you, are you making that? this is so clear. just why you're making that from this is very clear that you do every thinking that it's guaranteed to return 17 to few cream. it means the victory

a few quick that be seem to clean, however long that will take longer, as long as it takes and i can repeat, repeated to several times. this commitment expressed by 27 had the state. i can tell you own the forget twice a very emotional moment. the 1st virtual meeting within a few hours after start of the 1st invasion, the $27.00 european lead us were around the same table. we spend solution by spitting virtually in that meeting. i can tell you that all of us, all of us, we immediately felt the seriousness, the importance of the moment. and that's why on, in a few hours we've been able to take from them until the soon in terms of support for you. quinn and sanctions against russia. you've spoken by phone to vladimir putin over the course of the last year. if you had to pick one concrete result from the conversation from the discussion, what would it be that when i had for processing after the start of the 1st taylor

invasion, start out of the way? i don't know. so we could do tuesday to, to focus on some human to insurances, and i can give you an example. one creatures. obviously this is, this is important to allow some humanitarian agencies the request for instance in washing trust and disorganization to make sure that they would have access to some territories in order to provide some support. certain example, descent of prisoners very quickly after the start of the tools started through some international agencies on the chair of prisoners. these are 2 examples and point 3, i think it's very important also to, to, to advocate just even when we saw the roof, the principal. and this is why we are so committed to make sure that they will get to the ability. there is no place where trinity are you in the camp that says, we shouldn't humiliate mister putin, these are not worth it. i would use this is very clear that the put in is trying to

humiliate a big part of the world's starting research, ukraine's and if you don't have much sympathy with monsieur macros, i wish mister colbert, i wouldn't use this word. what is very, what is there? we clear this is very important. also transitions the west of the world. this is really important because we have our own vision and we have a very strong case. we have very strong principles that we need to, to, to defend the social in your opinion, that letter cooperation with this wanting brazilian potent also to induce africa to induce the can america transition in the pacific region. that's another move other in order to counter the russian fit in or for the narrative. and what was russia narratives as well? just because i really like to move on to china because paging has been awarded

a lot of face time by european leaders. you yourself met she jan thing last year. i was struck by your comment on the meeting when you said that both the e u. n. china have an interest in a rules based world with the un charter at its core. really given china's illegal expansion in the south china sea of the massive human rights violations taking place inside the country. it's clear they're not working from the same un rollbook as you are. so why suggest there's a common approach to rules face? well, when the clearly, when the, to me as a 1st 1st i funny believe in mr. letter, i certainly believe in the you in shop. what was my question, but i will answer your question. i shouldn't point you so that look nice. we know we can observe that china would like to set the international roofs that wouldn't, that wouldn't be inside by the same venue that you have on your site for, for, for, for instance, nicely 3 points. you know, relationship risa with china. first,

we will be always the we firm in protecting in defending the human rights in the democratic principles is very clear and systematically when i had 2 children to taught was a change or to teach i systematically your cation to, to, to, to explain our, our convictions on those question is point 1.2, i'm absolutely convinced that we need to, we balance the iterate relationship between china and the european union. and this is the idea to the rich relationships in florida. you flooded them with that all saying that they were in the same rules. well, this is, this is necessary to use the word just, nathan, just nathan. hi, i'm acting to regardless of china and point 3. if we are here use on the you side on climate change. if i hear you so on some sit with the challenges we need to, to talk to china. we need to induce china. it isn't me the,

to your dream on the all the stuff is reesa, china. let's take climate change, for instance, is so important to try to convince china to be much more active, to put in place a carbon pricing mechanism. for instance, let's food stove is names listed 2019 and cancellation. if we want to address those, tell you the future, we need to talk with them and we saw that to increase into it. look, i'd like to come back to the issue of human rights, which would you stress, you didn't please everyone on your trip. 10 major human rights groups are incense that you've reopened, what they call the meaningless human rights dialogues, with beijing, which was suspended in 2019 after the u. sanction chinese officials involved in human rights violations for point by those groups, isn't it? because the talks so far have changed nothing and will continue to change nothing. you agreed to talk about, you agrees and talk about human rights and they agree to ignore how we'd like to discussion. i would like to ask you attrition. do you feel that if we would stay in

brussels, if we would send community from research on to stuck it, we would achieve something absolutely turn to the to with chief nursing. and it's like it's very important to induce. and for instance, i'm very pro, i guess without it was, i'm very proud. i'm very proud that after the meeting we had to put in she in december, we've been able to, we launched this human device delettre we've been using for us to advocate to mentioned turn concrete changes into, to i to, to defend, to really different the human, the human rights of principles, the democratic without result and without any results. i fully disagree you faint. follow your coach, me that we would be more efficient by staying here in brussel. we saw the condition of course this time of course is difficult. i am not seeing that we do live winter in one meet or one soon, but i am convinced that if we do not induce absolutely certain that we will not deliver when we dish,

we open the door in order to do ever seen to deliver just very briefly, the human rights groups attend major human rights groups. don't agree with you at all. they say having a human rights dialogue with china cannot seriously be an end in itself one to the one, just high hello to real human rights progress, including engine john, to best way to do instance the. this is very central point to exactly what you're doing when this is shina. this isn't we? so the tub suppression. yeah. but can you point to a single aspect of human rights in china that these talks have altered for the better in the past? can you, since to 19 those thoughts were put on hold and 16 to relaunch those this all before. yeah, but since 19 it was put on all in total and we did, we did a political space opposed to the tween difference though, so we were just entry on all the topics that needs to be distressed and value in

beggary. before my trip to china, i had chosen to route menu and present that he saw me watch the organizations and just so important it was just for me to listen to them and to use also the argument that the shed we spoke earlier. this year china played host to francis president macro, who took a bunch of business with business men with him to sign trade deals, and then decided to open up a rift between europe and the us over taiwan. the great riskier faces he said, isn't gets caught up in crises that are not ours, which prevents it from building it's strategic. autonomy isn't at the height of irresponsibility to highlight divisions with the most important ally, america at a time when both russia and china of joined forces to erode human rights. and the rule of law to, to, to up is there is a very clear european position. likely united states is very strong to say we are

public school districts, extremely clear point one and point 2 on time when there's also a very clear european position. we do not accept do tend to do to change in either to either way. the status in one's tweet point point one and we are we tonight? the one china policy is the traditional european policy. nothing is changed, which we dealt with your current policy chief, joseph barrow, publicly slapped down list your micro by saying you members should actually deploy war ships to patrol the taiwan strait in order to deter paging aggression. how are you going to sort out these differences of opinion on china, within the or not to do different things? first, is a proposal made by usually people have to be the responsibility of the member states to destroy the talk. you can use the, the responsibility of the people have to put some proposals on the table point one . but it's not going to, this is rosa and in france is

a reactive in the pacific region which shows its forces that will interest for the, for the region. but let me tell you that and i let that in depression of media, especially in the recent days, always there is an impression of huge divisions on the european side on china impression real. know that the unity i will tell you because i think a little bit what the other sensitivities in the into chelsea. i think i can tell it in that in fact, we are much more convergent and then very turn to the, to the following to we just a democrat to debate. we have in europe, in the, in the, into which to come. we will have the occasion to, to clarify, into the coming position of china. we will have enjoyed is my responsibility to put talk to the gender in the european don't feel little bit and on china we are preparing the debate at the mystery level with a different state older with our partners. we so partners with our allies,

let me ask you just one specific question, because we're running out of time. what's the use plan? if china invades taiwan? but the plan, you, you, the plane is to do everything to convince china not to matrix and stick. yeah. but if you fail, what is that? what does this does this plan? he's been playing b. i would partners with to do what, in any case, what do you do you remember the week before the start of the war against russia? we worked, trustworthy mission was all of us know to assess what, what to be our reactions and we will, we will do the same and we are doing the same so and it didn't prevent the nation. yeah, yeah. because in fact, you absolutely right there was someone in the kremlin, we sure who to, to the decision to stop a crazy war the criminal saw. and we are doing every scene to talk to,

to make sure that you quinn because he's our interest. sha, michelle. great, have you covered some things i watch a date with

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hm. ah, ah ah, this is d w. news live from berlin, the chinese president on the line to keep the phone call ukrainian president soleski has wanted for months late as of china and you cry and speak for the 1st time since the russian invasion began. last year results the chinese delegation