ah, yet remains unknown and oppress. still standing presiding, cindy, count in 45 minutes. d w. a thought they were great. he will be there been almost 5 months of virtual stalemate on the battlefields of ukraine. and yet, europe and america are clear that key f one gets the fighter aircraft and long range weapon systems. so what's the ground plan is seen from brussels? is the one my guest is, shall michelle, president of the european council. this is very clear that we do every thinking of

the to guarantee the yellow sovereignty into each of your credit. it means the register will create that needs to be clear. and what about the confusion over each policy on china? president macro says taiwan, isn't europe's business. europe's foreign policy chief says it really is whatever happened to unity in the european union. savish are welcome to conflict. thank you. let's talk 1st about the war in ukraine. if we may, for the past few months, has been very little movement on the battlefield of ukraine. the west, you included, has given large amounts of aid and weapons, but clearly not enough to move the war in key of direction. isn't the danger now that you're beginning to normalize a stalemate is very clear to all the you side yard determined to do everything to support your credit, which is retained. and you are right. it's

a very quickly after the start of the food stamp division launched by russia, we decided to provide military equipment this 1st time in european union history that we took such a decision. and since then together, we are partners, our allies across the world we provide needed to support to ukraine. we provide financial means to ukraine. we help you clean my 3 sites to move. oh, you did you one of the example 2 weeks ago we to the decision to work together you members to produce ammunition because we feel that is needed to strengthen our defense industrial base. you know that to speed up and you're absolutely right. that is important to do everything to, to accelerate the effort. this is really important that the ukrainians made the shows to resist extremely courageous and this tragedy for them. and this is what i

would do t i responsibility is to do everything return, you know, the, to assist to, to support them. and of course, they're not. they're not impressed with the relationship with you at the moment. ukraine's foreign minister dmitri labor has complained bitterly that the e u was failing to implement its own decision on the ammunition to purchase ammunition for the country. because member states were arguing over which suppliers they should actually and since, and sign a contract. and since that statement made by me for, for the fact we had your titian to clarify with, you can authorities, you know, that was wasted. we are, we are in turn to turn tact prison to winston. and was the ukraine authorities and itin. we assure you that the know that we are, we label friends and we label parts and also know that this is the magic bullet. we do everything to speed up. we have taken significant political decisions. these are we clear that there's a story political choice on this, you side to, to, to, to,

to be active, no support to quit, but the reality there was no magic bullet faces. we need to make sure that we will produce more ammunition in the weeks and months to come. mr. columbus, deputy andrew melnick says that war fatigue among you members is now the biggest challenge for his country. is a feeling, he said that now the tank issue has been settled. people can put their feet up. a lot of them still don't understand that the war is far from over. is the right to worry about war fatigue in the, you know, it is that we clear that we need to convince our citizens according to you. what state is the future of the european union, the future of our citizens, our security, our prosperity. but look, if we look at the situation of a few months ago, and absolutely convinced that

a put in situation was the will for t, y, the impossibility for the european union to stick together to be united in we took 14 and a criminal by surprise because we are able to stick together, we are able to have the support of a public opinion across the european union. and we were able, we have been able to, to, to, to stick together with our, you know, that america allies and other partners across the, well, you say that, but your foreign policy chief, you, as a barrel said, recently forging and maintaining you, unity against russians invasion has not always been easy. some states complained others disagree, but in the end we maintain the unity. so you've papered over the cracks. what, what could open those cracks up again, this is, this is a very clear that unity, it requires a lot of effort. but the fact all the facts we've been able for instance, to sanction russia, you remember that a lot has been set on some lists of fragmentation. on the you side,

we took decisions all together on 10 packages of sanctions. and we are implementing the speculations of sentence, we are working all together to look like the international community on the international stage who are working with africa within defense issues. is that in america, in order to explain, to argue, to try to convince sometime that you have done the lot on sanctions, can i just, you know, make a point here, but you're still using vast quantities of russian oil supplied mainly by laundromat countries. these are countries that loaned the oil from moscow and sell it on to you. china, india, turkey, you a and singapore, you know about this, have a suit with lying wounded russian or what was, what was the situation a few minutes to do only a few minutes ago, we were on the european so, brutally dependent on the russian forces. hughes,

and only assume that we succeeded to the decisions you know, the to, to reduce dependencies and the doors to end those dependencies on the rest of aggression for seen fuses. why do they, we close. this is why didn't you close this loop? this is what we are doing. you are working very hard to close all the different loopholes. but please, would you prefer the european union? nothing to position to guarantee the supply of energy resources for our businesses, for our household. would you prefer the collapse of the european union? i suppose it is not what you are advocating for, and it's why we need to be reasonable to be rational and to be determined is exactly what we are doing. on the one hand, we do not last our long term strategy. we want more renewable energy on the you said we want, we want more independence in terms of energy producing on your site, but also to make sure that we and our eternity base. and if you defend the social

situation of our citizens, you mentioned the risk of war fatigued and you are right. these are important to work in order to avoid being victim of such or which is free. one took you to support for citizens. this is important to demonstrate that you are working, you know, there's also to overcome the, the energy challenges, for instance, you know, but if you want to do something about war fatigue, isn't it time for a clear explanation of the use strategic objectives for ukraine and russia? plenty of generalized promises we've heard from the you told ukraine in february the european union will support you in every way we can for as long as it can. i can, i just ask the question, for as long as what takes, what exactly does this promise mean? this is clear. and the way you are often the christmas interesting because it show that i'm not exactly following your approach. in our approach, if you, which has the responsibility to, to decide when to but you made the promise to please please let the difference.

you're choosing to answer your question. i will, i will answer your question, which is the ukrainians. they have the responsibility be just, this is a suffering turn 3 to the site when and the way in which elements, you know, the to, to assist when this is time to, to, to, to, to open a new, a new chapter. and it's why we are supporting this piece formula developed in proposed diapers lindsay. lindsay. and it's why also support this idea to have an international piece so meet in order to defend the ukrainian position in spite by what we believe in the electoral older was boost international, older, the territorial integrity and sovereignty of the different of nations. because the word is the e, you scared of russia, you said in february, we're not intimidated and will not be intimidated by the kremlin because ukraine and the e u. harmony. but the truth is that the west is very much intimidated by russia.

isn't that the only reason for not giving care of the weapons at once? is your fear of escalation and perhaps of nuclear conflict. and it is really clear, you remember, at the beginning of the war last by russia. this was important for us on the one hand to support ukraine. on the other hand, the to be part in 2015 other to avoid any we still facilitation. and he's very clear. i take the example of the nuclear weapons. it is too much fun when we indifferent china, for instance, another to convince the internet community. china included to be very fun and very clear the use and even the threat of nuclear weapons is not responsible. and we need to do everything in order to show it to not be used when we support the united nations in separation. for instance, in order to prevent any resources division, it shows that you are serious. we are responsible and again the ukrainians. people

in the you know exactly what you're doing now to help them to resist. we're more than a year into this war, which may well define europe, security architecture for generations to come. and we're still not sure what the use objectives are. so. so what is the big plan? because what scenario do you envisage? eternal war, frozen conflict? after all the killing and destruction, these 2 countries are not going to just shake hands and be friends. are they? what, what? what's the big plan for? if this war, when this war finally comes to an the bitch plan and the promise of the union, just security and prosperity and the sufficiency extremely easy, easy and difficult to implement. you absolutely right. but it's also what we do to what's been doing for the to across the european continent. but this is very,

very clear that what we face is a tragedy 1st for the ukrainian people. so didn't you test an impact on the security and prosperity across europe? and it's why i strongly believe in what we told the strategy to autonomy of the european. i think to this john for that is showing that is really important. what in 3 different trans 1st energy energy independence don't need to explain a lot why you so important? and this is very clear was the 1357 point european defense together. we need to, we can natal. but it is very clear and we are acting that what we did in the past on the european. so when some members do decided to we use the investments in defense, we can see to do, we need 3 to tours. you need to, to, to your tip abilities is means that we need more cognition, the repeated level, and point 3 innovation. it shouldn't be, you know, that guarantee to prosperity. these are the 3, the 3 major pillars. and we have

a vision. why? because we found that the future of ukraine and rolled over if we send you did, is a very clear message. this is a very clear plan for the future of the printer. and wow, presence landscape, not getting all the weapons he wants. but what if ukraine starts losing this was the contingency plan for that. what if russia against the old starts winning more battles on the ground occupying further territory? when you wake up and it's too late to get, get ukraine, the weapons it needs the ocean victory cannot be an option. and this is why we support you create. and i've understood that you have your own impression about what we are doing. i tend to, in to you that all them industries, all the european leaders didn't know what's it. i would say you will not let. when are you, are you making that? this is clear, just why you're making that from. this is very clear that we do every thinking that a to guarantee little yellow servant integrity a few cream. it means the victory

a few quick that seem to clean, however long that will no longer take as long as it takes. and i can repeat, repeated to several times, this commitment expressed by 27 had the state i can tell you own the forget to us a very emotional moment. the 1st virtual meeting, we spend a few hours at the start of the 1st invasion, the 27 year period us, we're around the same table. we spend simpson bus pit in virtually in the meeting. i can tell you that all of us, all of us, we immediately felt the seriousness, the importance of the moment. and that's why only in a few hours, we've been able to take from them until the soon in terms of support for you. quinn, infection against russia. you've spoken by phone to vladimir putin over the course of the last year. if you had to pick one concrete result from the conversation from the discussion, what would it be that when i had form cautiously after the start of the 1st day of

business, start out of the way when i was so we could do tuesday to, to focus on some human to insurances and attend you an example. one creatures. obviously this is, this is important to allow some shumate to agencies the request for instance, in our washing clothes to increase disorganization to make sure that they would have access to some territories in order to provide some support certain example of prisoners very quickly after the start of the tours started through some international agencies on the chair of prisoners. these are 2 examples and point 3, i think it's very important also to, to, to advocate just even when we saw the roof, the principal. and this is why we are so committed to make sure that they will get to the ability. there is no place where trinity are you in the camp that says we shouldn't humiliate mr. brewton. that was that i would use because this is very

clear that the put in is trying to humiliate a big part of the world starting research, ukraine's and if you don't have much sympathy with monsieur macros, i don't wish mister colbert, i wouldn't use this word. what is very, what is there? we clear this is very important. also transistors, the west of the world. this is really important because we have our own vision and we have a very strong case. we have very strong principles that we need to, to, to defend the social in your opinion, that letter cooperation with this wanting brazilian potent also to engage with africa to induce the can. america transition in the past. if you region, you know that you know that, you know, we've others in order to counter the russian fit in or for the narrative. and what we rush of narratives as well is that just because i really like to move on to

china because paging has been awarded a lot of face time by european leaders. you yourself met? she just thing last year i was struck by your comment on the meeting when you said that both the e u. n. china have an interest in a rules based world with the un charter at its core. really given china's illegal expansion in the south china sea of the massive human rights violations taking place inside the country. it's clear they're not working from the same un rollbook as you are. so why suggest a common approach to rule face? well, when the clearly, when the truly is a 1st 1st i strongly believe in the military approach. i certainly believe in the you in chart, that was my question, but i will answer your question. and i said in point 2, so that look nice. we know we can observe that china would like to set the international ruth and ruth that wouldn't. it wouldn't be inspired by the same venue that you have on your site for, for, for, for instance, nessie 3 points,

you know, relationship research with china. first, we will be always the we firm in protecting and defending the human rights in the democratic principles is very clear and systematically when i had to petition to taught was a change or to tease i systematically, your, your cation to, to, to, to explain our, our convictions on those questions. point 1.2, i'm absolutely convinced that we need to, we balance the relationship between china and the european union. and this is the idea to the rich relationship. but in florida, you flat them with the talk saying that they were in the same rules. well, this is, this is not serious to use. this word is nathan. just nathan. hi, i'm acting with regardless of china and point 3. if we are here use on the you side on climate change, if you i hear you so on some sit with the challenges we need to,

to talk to china when you to induce china. it doesn't me the, to your dream on the all the stuff is research china. let's take climate change, for instance, is only important to try to convince china to be much more active, to put in place a carbon pricing mechanism. for instance, let's to 22905020194 instance, if we want to address those, tell you the future, we need to talk with them and we saw to increase into it. look, i'd like to come back to the issue of human rights, which would you stress, you didn't please everyone on your trip. 10 major human rights groups are incense that you've reopened, what they called the meaningless human rights dialogues, with beijing, which was suspended in 2019 after the you sanctioned chinese officials involved in human rights. violations fell point by those groups, isn't it? because the talks so far have changed, nothing will continue to change, nothing. you agreed to talk about how you agree and talk about human rights. and they agreed to ignore how we'd like to discussion. i would like to ask you a question. do you think that the issue with the in bruce, or if you,

with the center community from research on do stuff that we would achieve something absolutely tends to with chief nursing. and this is very important to induce. for instance, i'm very pro i am engaged with, i'm very proud. i'm very proud. it's after the meeting we had to prevention in december. we've been able to, we launch this human wise delettre. we've been because it isn't for us to advocate to mentioned turn concrete changes in to try to, to defend, to really different the, the human rights of principles, the democratic without a result and you without any results. i fully disagree you faint, follow your coach. it's me that we would be more efficient by staying here in brussel. we saw the condition of course this time of course is difficult. i am not seeing that we are deliver winter in one meet or in one soon, but them to visit if we do not induce is absolutely certain that we will not

deliver when we dish we open the door in order to do ever seen to deliver just very briefly, the human rights groups attempt, major human rights groups don't agree with you at all. they say having a human rights dialogue with china cannot seriously be an end in itself. they want to just turn log to real human rights progress, including in sion, janet to bass, what you're doing, this is a very central point. tell you exactly what you're doing when this is shana this isn't we. so the tub all discretions. yeah. but can you point to a single aspect of human rights in china that these talks have altered for the better in the past? can you since 19 those thoughts were put on hold and 16 to we launch those this all before. yeah. but since $319.00 it was put on all in total and we did, we did a political space opposed to the tween difference though. so we were just entry on

all the topics that needs to be distressed and value in beggary. before my trip to china, i had you've taken 2 root menu present that you saw those from and watch the organizations . and just so important, it was just for me to listen to them and to use also the arguments that the share earlier this year china played host to francis president macro, who took a bunch of business with business with him to sign tre deals. and then decided to open up a rift between europe and the u. s. over taiwan. the great riskier faces he said, isn't gets caught up in crises that are not ours, which prevents it from building a strategic autonomy. isn't at the height of irresponsibility to highlight divisions with the most important ally, america at a time when both russia and china have joined forces to erode human rights and the rule of law to, to topic there is a very clear erection position like with native stacy's always trying to say we are

both full digit, extremely clear point one and point to untie one. there's also a very clear european position we do accept do tend to, to, to change in either to either way the status quo in. i went to it point point one and we're, we tonight, the one china policy is the traditional european policy. nothing is changed, which we will talk with policy chief, the public to slap down unless you micro, by saying you members should actually deploy war ships to patrol the taiwan strait in order to deter paging aggression. how are you going to sort out these differences of opinion on china, within the or not to do different things? first is a proposal made. they use the pay behind to be the responsibility of the member states to destroy the topic. and he's the responsibility of the people have to put some proposals on the table point one, he's not going to listen to growth and in france is

a reactive and in the past attrition which shows its forces that will interest for the for the region. but let me tell you that unless that in depression and media especially in the recent days are always there is an impression of huge divisions on the european side on china. impression to real know that the reality i will tell you because i think a little bit what are the sensitivities in the inter, chauncey i think i can tell it in that in fact we are much more convergent and then very transferring between the following 2 weeks democrat, to date we have in europe, in the, in the, in which to come, we will have the occasion to, to clarify, into the coming position of china. we will have enjoyed this my responsibility to put took the, to the gender in the european don't feel a little bit on, on china. we are preparing the debate at the mystery level with

a different estate order with our partners. we so thomas, we are alive. let me ask you just one specific question, because we're running out of time. what's the use plan? if china invades tie one, what's the plan? you, you, the plane is to do everything to convince china not to 6 in the state. yeah. but if you fail with this plan, he's been playing b r i with partners with you to do in any case. what do you do? you remember the, the weights before the start of the war against russia. we worked in truce tradition was all our partners are due to assess what would be our reactions and we would, we would do the same and we are doing the same set up and it didn't prevent the yeah, yeah. because in fact you absolutely right. there was someone in the kremlin, we sure who to, to the decision to start a tracy was the criminal saw. and we hadn't every scene to talk to,

to make sure that you quinn because he's our interest. sha, michelle. great. have you come pick some things i watch a data with

ah! [000:00:00;00] with who? the forgot we've helped us pack a stove since the cradle of one of mankind's oldest civilization.

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