a scene to position the movie to walk, to make sure that that shady dealings in 30 minutes on d. w. a with a way. but i didn't have to was my own car. and everyone was late and every day getting you ready to meet the gentleman and i need to do it on d. w. have been almost 5 months, a virtual stalemate on the battlefields of ukraine. and yet, europe and america are clear that key f one gets the fighter aircraft and long range weapons systems. so what's the ground plan is seen from brussels? is the one. my guest is shout michelle, president of the european council. this is where we clear the to do every thinking

of the to go into the we toyota, superintendent of ukraine. it's me the victor, we quit with. and what about the confusion over you policy on china? president macro says taiwan. isn't europe's business. europe is foreign policy chief says it really is whatever happened to unity in the european union. army sure. welcome to come. thank you. let's talk 1st about the war and ukraine. if we may, for the past few months, it's been very little movement on the battlefields of ukraine. the west, you included, has given large amounts of aid and weapons, but clearly not enough to move the war in key of direction. is the danger. now that you're beginning to normalize a stalemate is very clear that on your side, you are determined to do everything to support your credit specialist retain. and you are absolutely right to very quickly,

after the start of the food stamp division launched by russia. we decided to provide military recruitment the 1st time in european union history. the 2 took such a decision. and since then together, we have a partners our allies, across the world. we provide military support to ukraine. we provide financial means to ukraine. we help you quinn or not, if you my 3 sites to move you. i did you one of the example 2 weeks ago to the decision to work together. you member states to produce ammunition because we feel that is needed to strengthen our defense industrial base. you know, the to speed up and you're absolutely right. that is important to do everything to, to accelerate the effort. this is really important that the ukrainians made the shows to, to resist extremely courageous. and he's a tragedy for them. and that's why i would you t,

i responsibility is to do everything we tend to know that to assist to, to support them. and of course, they're not. they're not impressed with the relationship with the you at the moment . ukraine's foreign minister dmitri labor has complained bitterly that the e u was failing to implement its own decision on the ammunition to purchase ammunition for the country. because the member states were arguing over which suppliers they should actually and since, and sign a contract. and since that statement made by the me for, for the fact we had your titian to clarify with your team authorities, you know, that was wasted. we are entrenched in turn tact prison to linton and was the ukraine authorities. and i can, we assure you that the know that we are, we label friends and we label parts and also know that this is a magic bullet. we do everything to speed up. we have taken significant political decisions. the very clear that there's one political choice on this you side to,

to, to, to, to be active, no support to quit, but that reality there is no magic bullet. for instance, we need to make sure that we will produce more ammunition in weeks and months to come. mister labors, deputy andrew melnick says that war fatigue among you members is now the biggest challenge for his country. there's a feeling he said that now the tank issue has been settled. people can put their feet up. a lot of them still don't understand that the war is far from over. is the right to worry about war fatigue in the, you know, to say we clear that we, we need to convince our citizens across, you know, what state is the future of the european union, the future of our citizens, our security, our prosperity. but look, if you look at the situation of a few minutes ago and absolutely trying things that are proteins generation was the

will for t, y, the impossibility for the european union to stick together to be united in, retook protein and a criminal by surprise because we are able to stay together, we are able to have the support of public opinion across the european and we were able, we have been able to, to, to, to, to, to, to stick together with our northern america allies and other partners across the way you say that but your foreign policy chief, you as a barrel said, recently, forging and maintaining you, unity against russians invasion has not always been easy. some states complained others disagree, but in the end we maintain the unity. so you've papered over the cracks, what, what could open those cracks up again, this is, this is a very clear that unity, it requires a lot of effort. but the fax, all the facts, we have been able, for instance, to sanction russia. you remember that a lot has been set on some risks of fragmentation. on the you side,

we took decisions altogether on 10 packages of sanctions and we are implementing the speculations of sentence. we are working all together to mobilize the international community on the international stage. we are working with africa within the past issues. is that in america, in order to explain, to argue, to try to convince sometimes that you have done a lot on sanctions, can i just, you know, make a point here, but you're still using vast quantities of russian oil supplied mainly by laundromat countries. these are countries that loaned the oil from moscow and sell it on to you. china, india, turkey, you a and singapore, you know about this habit. with lying wounded russian oil. what was, what was the situation a few months or 2 only a few minutes ago. we were on the european so broadly, dependent on the russian forces hughes and only

a few months we succeeded to take decisions in order to, to reduce our dependencies and the doors to end the dependencies on the russian aggression for seen fuses. why did we close this? why didn't you close this loop? this is what we are doing. you are working very hard to close all the different loopholes with please, would you prefer the european union? nothing to position to guarantee the supply of energy resources for our businesses, for our host source. would you prefer the collapse of the european union? i suppose it is not what you are advocating for, and it's why we need to be reasonable to be rational and to be determined is exactly what we are doing. on the one hand, we do not last our long term strategy. we want more renewable energy on your side. we want, we want more independence in terms of energy producing on your site, but also to make sure that we defend our eternity base. and if you defend the

social situation of our citizens, you mentioned the risk of fatigue and you are right is important to work in order to avoid being victim of such a which is free, one to, to, to support for citizens. this is important to demonstrate that you are working, you know, the also to overcome the energy challenges, for instance. yeah. but if you want to do something about war, fatiguing, get time for a clear explanation of the use strategic objectives for ukraine and russia. plenty of generalized promises we've heard from the you, you told ukraine in february the european union will support you in every way we can for as long as it can. i can, i just ask the question, for as long as what takes, what exactly does this promise mean? this is that we clear. and the way you are often nutritionists interesting because it show that i'm not exactly following your approach. in our approach it's not you which has to explain simply to to decide when it to but you made the promise.

please please let me difference or choosing to answer your question. i will, i will answer. we split your question, we should the ukrainians, have the responsibility be just this is a suffering turn 3 to the site when and the way in which the enemies, you know, the to, to assist. when this is time to, to, to, to, to open a new, a new chapter. and it's why we are supporting this piece formula developed in proposed di presidency, lindsey and it's why also support nice idea to have an international piece so meet in order to defend the ukrainian position inspired by what we believe in the move to la through all older was boost international older, the territorial integrity in sovereignty of the different of nations. because the world is the e, you scared of russia. you said in february, we're not intimidated and will not be intimidated by the kremlin because ukraine and the e u r family. but the truth is that the west is very much intimidated by russia,

is that the only reason for not giving care of the weapons at once is your fear of escalation and perhaps of nuclear conflict. and this is where we clearly remember at the beginning of the war last by russia. this was important for us on the one hand to support ukraine. on the other hand, not to be part in tron 15 other to avoid any we still facilitation. and he's very clear, i take the example of the nuclear weapons, it's, we are seamless firm when we induce china, for instance, another to convince the international community. china included to be very firm and clear the use and the threat of nuclear weapons is not responsible. and we need to do everything in order to me show it to not be used when we support the united nations in separation. for instance, in order to prevent any research installation, it shows that you are serious. we are responsible and again the ukrainians. people

in the, you know exactly what we are doing to help them to resist. we're more than a year into this war, which may well define europe, security architecture for generations to come. and we're still not sure what the use objectives are. so. so what is the big plan? because what scenario do you envisage? eternal war? a frozen conflict. after all the killing and destruction, these 2 countries are not going to just shake hands and be friends. are they? what, what? what's the big plan for? if this war, when this war finally comes to an the bitch plan and the promise of european industries, security and prosperity. and the situation is extremely easy, easy and difficult to implement. you absolutely right. but it's also what we do to what's been doing for ditches across the european continent. but this is very,

very clear that what we fish is a tragedy 1st for the ukrainian people. so didn't you test an impact on the security and prosperity across europe? and it's why i strongly believe in what we told the strategy to autonomy of the european i think it to this to fit is showing that is really important to us in 3 different trans 1st energy energy independence. don't need to explain a lot why you saw in, and this is very clear was the 1357 point european defense together. we need to, we need to but these are clear and we are acting that what we did the fast on the european. so when some members do decided to we use the investments in defense, we can see to do, we need 3 to tours. we need to, to, to your tip abilities is means that we need more cognition, the repeated level and point 3 innovation. it shouldn't be, you know, that guarantee to prosperity. these are the 3, the 3 major pillars. and we have

a vision. why? because we found that the future of ukraine and rolled over it, we seem to, you did, is a very clear message. this is a very clear plan for the future of the printer and wow, presence and ask is not getting all the weapons he wants, but what if ukraine stops losing? this was the contingency plan for that. what if russia against the old starts winning more battles on the ground occupying further territory? when you wake up and it's too late to get, get ukraine, the weapons, it needs a wish and victory cannot to be an option. and this is why we support you create and i've understood that you have your own impression about what we are doing. i tend to in to you that all the members this older you can lead us. they know what's it fit? i will say you will not let a when are you, are you making that drum? this is so we clear at this why you're making that from. this is very clear that we do every thinking of the to guarantee we toyota service interpreter. few create. it

means the victory a few create that seem to clean, however long that will no longer take as long as it takes. and i can repeat, repeated to several times. this commitment expressed by 27 had the state i can tell you own the forget to us a very emotional moment. the 1st virtual meeting, we spend a few hours at the start of the 1st invasion, the $27.00. you need us, we're around the same table we spend solution by spitting virtually in meeting. i think that all of us, all of us, we immediately felt the seriousness, the importance of the moment. and that's why only in a few hours we've been able to take from them until the soon in terms of support for your queen and sanctions against russia. you've spoken by phone to vladimir putin over the course of the last year. if you had to pick one concrete result from the conversation from the discussion, what would it be that when i had 4 courses in after the start of the 1st day of

business, start out of the way. when i had those phone calls, we had the children to, to focus on some human to challenges. and i can give you an example. one creatures . obviously this is, this is very important to allow some shumate to agencies the request for instance, in our washing clothes to intact with disorganization, to make sure that they would have access to some territories in order to provide some support. certain example gets sent of prisoners very quickly after the start of the tours started through some international agencies on the sort of prisoner. these are 2 examples and point 3, i think it's very important also to, to, to advocate just even when we saw the roof, the principal. and this is why we are so committed to make sure that they will dictate the ability. there is no place where trinity are you in the camp that says we shouldn't humiliate mr. brewton design. that was that i would use because this

is very clear that the put in is trying to humiliate a big part of the world's starting research, ukraine's and if you don't have much sympathy with mr. macros, i wish mr. mccormick, i would interview this, just this word. what is very what it is very clear. this is very important. also transitions the west of the world. this is really important because we have our own vision and we have a very strong case with to intro principle that you need to to, to defend the source. would be in your opinion that to that, to cooperation with this one thing that we important also to induce africa to induce the can america transition in defense if you treated well, you know, that's another one you know, in order to counter the russian fit for, for narrative and narratives as well. just because i really like to move on to china because paging has been awarded

a lot of face time by european leaders. you yourself met? she did thing last year. i was struck by your comment on the meeting when you said that both the e u. n. china have an interest in a rules based world with the un charter at its core. really given china's illegal expansion in the south china sea of the massive human rights violations taking place inside the country. it's clear they're not working from the same un rollbook as you are. so why suggest there's a common approach to rule face? well, when the clearly, when the truly is a 1st 1st i totally believe in the move to let her approach. i certainly believe in the shop, but this one my question, but i will answer your question. and i said in point is that i'm not now if we know we can observe that china would like to set the international roofs and that wouldn't, that wouldn't be installed by the same venue that you have on your site for, for,

for, for instance, 93 points, you know, relationship we saw was china. first, we will be always the we fun in predicting in defending the human rights in the democratic principles is very clear in systematically when i had 2 children to taught was a change of 3 teens. i systematically your cation to, to, to, to explain our, our convictions on those pressures. point 1.2, i'm absolutely convinced that you need to, we balance the iterate relationship between china and european union. and this is the idea to the rich relationship. but in florida you flight that the with for the reason that all saying that they were in the same rules. well, this is, this is necessary to use the word is nathan. just nathan. i'm acting with regard to so china and point 3. if we are here use on the you side on climate change, if you i hear you. so on some sit with the challenges, we need to talk to china. we need to induce china. it doesn't me the,

to your dream. all the stuff is research china. let's take climate change, for instance, is so important to try to convince china to be much more active, to put in place a carbon pricing mechanism. for instance, let's fix turkey's names listed 2019 and henceforth and if we want to address those to the future, we need to talk with them. and we saw that to increase into it. look, i'd like to come back to the issue of human rights, which would you stress, you didn't please everyone on your trip. 10 major human rights groups are incense that you've reopened, what they call the meaningless human rights dialogues, with beijing, which was suspended in 2019 after the you sanctioned chinese officials involved in human rights violations set point by those groups, isn't it? because the talks so far have changed, nothing will continue to change, nothing. you agreed to talk about how you agree and talk about human rights and they agree to ignore how we'd like to discussion. i would like to ask you attrition . do you think that if we would stay in brussels,

if we would send the community from research on to stuck it, we would achieve something i think in terms of the to with the chief nursing. and this is very important to induce. for instance, i'm very pro i am engaged without i was, i'm very proud. i'm very proud that after the meeting we had to prevention in december, we've been able to, we launch this human device delettre. we've been because it isn't for us to advocate to mentioned turn concrete changes and to try to, to defend, to really different the, the human rights of principles, the democratic and without result and you without any results. i fully these agree you faint, follow your coach each me that we would be more efficient by staying here in brussel we saw the condition of course takes time, of course is difficult. i am not seeing that. we do live winter in one meet or in one soon, but them to visit if we do not induce absolutely certain that we will not deliver

when we dish, we open the door in order to do every scene to deliver just a brief of the human rights groups attempt, major human rights groups don't agree with you at all. they say having a human rights dialogue with china cannot seriously be an end in itself. they want to just turn a log to real human rights progress, including in sion, janet bass, what you're doing, this is a very central point of exactly what you're doing. this is, shana, this isn't we thought in discretions. yeah. but can you point to a single aspect of human rights in china that these talks have altered for the better in the past? can you since target 19 those tours were put on hold and 16 to relaunch those. it's all before. yeah, but since $319.00 it was put on all in total and we did, we did a political space opposed to the tween difference though. so we've, we've history on all the topics that needs to be distressed and value in beggary

before my trip to china. i had your children to root menu present that you saw those from and watched the organizations. and just so important it was just for me to listen to them and to use also the arguments that the shed. earlier this year, china played host to france, his president macro, who took a bunch of business with business men with him to sign tre deals, and then decided to open up a rift between europe and the u. s. over taiwan. the great riskier faces he said, isn't gets caught up in crises that are not ours, which prevents it from building it's strategic. autonomy isn't at the height of irresponsibility to highlight divisions with the most important ally, america at a time when both russia and china have joined forces to erode human rights and the rule of law to, to topic the research of every clear european position alliance with native stacy

was 20 and we are public full digits. extremely clear point one and point to tie one. there's also a very clear european position we do accept do tend to do to change in either to either way the status quo in one's tweet point point one and we are, we are nice. one china policy is the traditional european policy. nothing is changed, which we will start with policy chief shows that publicly slap down was macro by saying you members should actually deploy war ships to patrol the taiwan strait in order to deter beijing's aggression. how are you going to sort out these differences of opinion on china within the 2 different things? first is a proposal made. they use it, they behind to be the responsibility of the member states to destroy the topic. and he's the responsibility of the people have to put some proposals on the table to point one. well, that's what we're doing. it's not going to,

it's going to rosa. and then in frost is a reactive in the pacific region, which shows its forces that will interest for the, for the region. but let me tell you that and i let that in depression and media, especially in the recent days, always there is an impression of huge divisions on the european side on china impression real. know that the unity i will tell you because i think a little bit what are the sensitivities in the into chauncey i think i can tell it in that in fact we are much more convergent and then very transfer them to the following 2 weeks. democrat to debate we have in europe in the, in the into which to come, we will have the occasion to, to clarify, into the coming position of china. we will have enjoyed this my responsibility to put took you to the gender in the european don't feel little bit and on china we are preparing the debate at the mystery level with

a different state older with our partners. we so it's thomas with allies. let me ask you just one specific question, because we're running out of time. what's the use plan? if china invades tie one, what's the plan you use? the plane is to do everything to convince china, not to matrix and stick. yeah. but if you fail what, what this plane, he's been playing b for our partners with to do what, in any case, really what it do you remember the week before the start of the war against russia we worked for the mission, was all our partners to do to assist what would be our reactions and we will, we will do the same and we are doing the same set up and it didn't prevent the nation. yeah, yeah. it was in fact, you absolutely right. there was someone in the kremlin, we sure who took the decision to start a tracy was the criminal saw and we are doing everything to, to, to,

to make sure that you quinn because he's our interest. sha, michelle. great. have you come pick some things i watch a data blue . ah, with

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ah ah, ah, this is dw news, and these are our top stories. thousands of evacuated from the fighting in sudan have arrived in the port city of jetta and saudi arabia. war are expected to make the passage across the red sea, including a convoy of.