t w's global media forum. ready for around 3. women in asia, is that to contact our mind, kill, kill down the i really thing that is for him as a life, not system. we're season 3 of our award winning documentary series, her women and asia the c. i a is casting a wide and rather public net on the internet, hoping to recruit russian spies a get in touch video aimed at russian citizens with state secrets. russians who loved their country, but not where it's headed presently by the way, approach and the invasion of ukraine. they're never mentioned. you can call it the potent in the room, a fact reinforced daily by russian air strikes and

a war that mosse scales, made and power, still refused to call by ne, i bridge off berlin. this is the day i the sort the russian armed forces carried out and concentrated the spring with high proceeding with long range errands, based against location of ukrainian armed forces, calibrated about april, set aside of desperation, given how bad the russians doing on the front lines. we are returning home with new defense packages, even ballistic missile of the most difficult thing to set on now being routinely accepted by ukraine. thanks to those western western system. more ammunition, stronger weapons for the front, more protection for up people, more political support. also coming up hotline

in the cold war, the crim within the white house were once connected by phone direct dialing to prevent more tonight. the question for beijing in washington, who are you going to call? so there is number of areas where we believe it will benefit the both of our countries to continue to communicate in our intention has always been to maintain lines of communication with the p r c. a to our viewers watching on p. b. as in the united states and to all of you around the world, welcome, we begin today with russian air strikes and russian secrets. it is no secret that moscow has no intention of changing course in its invasion of ukraine. overnight russian forces watched airstrikes on. keep that ukrainian officials today described as exceptionally intense they had the keeps military administration, says the russian attack used to drones, cruise missiles and probably ballistic missiles, ukraine's chief military commander said the defense systems were able to destroy

all of the russian missiles within, keeps air space debris fell across several of the capitals districts causing a fire. in one non residential building. recent days have seen a flurry of russian air strikes as well months before russian began its invasion of ukraine. the u. s. went public with intelligence that suggested the kremlin, despite its denials, was planning to start a war well in february of last year that intelligence proved to be spot on. it is impossible to measure the value of intelligence, but ask any general from berlin to london to washington, and they will tell you it's better to have too much entail than not enough. well, apparently the c, i a thinks there has never been a better time to recruit spies in russia, russian spots. the us intelligence agency is using social media and the dark net to extend an invitation to russian citizens who may have access to state secrets to

get in touch. the invitation comes in the form of a video that speaks to russians who loved their country, but not where it is going. take a look at my yet, i see that this example just my yet to see you every guessing, every state with route this to look at that. yeah, my easy the with this attempt to recruit russians to be spies, it's certainly not classified information. in fact, the kremlin says it is aware of the c i a video government spokesman,

dimitri pest golf says that russian security forces are monitoring the information space in the face of continued western activity. again for, i don't know, i haven't seen it, but i'm convinced of the special services are also monitoring the space and the necessary way for towards a given that you're and we all know personally well with the c i a and the western intelligence services on not reducing their activity on the territory of our country, but you have to understand that you need to do next. all right, i'm going to bring you now dmitri, up here to the cheese, a cyber policy and security expert. he's been a special advisor to the pedagogy now advisors, department of homeland security demetrius. good to have you on the program. let me ask you, why do you think the c, i a considers the here and now to be an unprecedented time and opportunity to reach out to russians who may have stayed secrets to share? well, we might very well be living in the golden age of recruitment of russian sources

right now. and both the c i and frankly, the of the i have been pretty aggressive in their campaigns. this is not the 1st video that the us government has put out, or the russian officials to contact us government to become a source for us intelligence community. and they're indicating this is working. you've had hundreds of thousands, potentially as many as a 1000000 people have left russia. a lot of people that are very dissatisfied with where the country is going with this war. so they are right for targeting, being targeted by the us intelligence community. so let me ask you to put on your, your cyber security expert kathy or the c. i a says that the perspective spies, they can trust the doc. net a tour browser to get in touch with the see. i know, is it really possible for russians to communicate with the central intelligence agency a by using something like, i guess, a double 07, phone number. well, the top browser is actually widely used by

a number of people around the world dissidence as, as well as others that want to focus on privacy. so it's a way to both brows anonymously, to websites, to communicate with people anonymously. it's fully encrypted. it's been in use for about 20 years. it's very well understood and unless technology so it's quite secure if you follow the instructions on how to use it appropriately. so if you struck dimitry by what was not said in this video, they didn't say they didn't mention the words fly them improvement once, and they did not mention the war in ukraine. is there a reason for this noticeable absence or recruiting source is always very tricky. you're actually asking someone to betray their country and you want to have a pitch that a soft. um, so in this particular case, it's more about tried to help the country versus to betray it. and you know, we'll see if it's effective, up potentially decades down the road when the history of this period is written.

but i think it's the right thing to do to not be overly pushy, overly criticizing, and make it clear to people that they're trying to help the country versus the trip . is there a, a decent amount, a, a promising reserve of discontinued disgruntled russians who perhaps the c. i a could tap into i think the risk and there's been reports just this week that there have been a number of even senior officials within the russian government, including governors that have been trying to resign from their positions. and have been basically told by the kremlin that not only will they not be allowed to resign, but they may face criminal penalties if you keep pushing this issue. so there's quite a lot of people that are not just unhappy with the direction, but are also very unhappy with the fact that they're known to welcome in western societies that they can no longer corruptions, very widespread, and rush of course, they can no longer stash them money and overseas, and their families as easily to spend, you know, money in the, in the con,

uh and south france and another great destination. so those are the people that the c i a and the i want to target for agreement. and the kremlin, it is a, we're apparently that people are not happy and that the, the likelihood that someone will betray his or her country is, is high. the punishment for being a traitor has been increased. and just the last year, do you think what the c i is doing now with this video to recruit spies, do you think that is going to, i guess, make the stakes even greater for russians who want to do something to, to end? what they perceive is madness in their own country as well. the stakes have always been high if you're caught as a traitor in rush, or even if you're accused unfairly, as being a spy, as we now have with journalist step degree, the wall street journal reporter that there's been accused of being spying on fairly by putting machine you can be locked up for life, you can be locked up for many, many years in the labor camps. so the people they're going to be contacting these

agencies are well aware of the risks and they have to balance that out and determine if there is an opportunity for them to potentially one day get citizenship and at western country and setup for a for new like their d. c, i a, has made it a point to say that with this video, they're not advocating any type of, of domestic unrest in russia. but i was also struck by the fact that the c, i a did not say that they, that this campaign would not advocate or maybe lead to regime change or change at the top in russia. i mean, it could be understood as a catalyst for getting rid of by the way of putting cut. i don't think so. i think the people that are most likely to be receptive to these pictures are going to be, make career bur grass your i think very unlikely to recruit anyone very senior. we're going to put an end to rush that would potentially be capable of orchestra

and include gas then. and crews are always very dangerous because you don't know what's going to come next. even if you have someone who's working for you that might orchestrated cube, there's no guarantee that they'll continue working for you and they may turn out to be worse than the person. they replaced the dimension before we let you go, you and you say this could be the golden age for recruiting russian spies for western intelligence in general. you know, they were spot on with the information they made public leading up to the russian invasion of ukraine. are we also living in a, maybe a golden age of acting, being able to act on reliable intelligence? or we have seen a complete sea change and how intelligence is used in the united states and the last 2 years because used to be when you're collecting the secret information, you'll lock it up to let very few people see it. what the us government has done is by publicizing that they've been able to actually alter russian plans. we know that the, let me put in one or 2 have a false log operation that would justify his invasion of ukraine because of the

intelligence that has been released, who was unable to do so. and that has impacted his ability to justify this illegal aggression. dimitry of heritage, it's good talking with you. excellent analysis in context to help us understand what's going on in the shadows. thank you. thank you. where you create the military says that it is making progress in the battle for the eastern city of buck moved in recent days. ukrainian forces have reportedly reclaimed about 20 square kilometers of territory around the city, but ukraine's grip inside buck boat, that's a different story. ukrainian troops on paying a high price for the efforts to liberate the flash point. city of buck moved. the soldier took a direct hit from a move to show. he says he's helm, it saves his life. on monday,

the troops top commander said they made the 1st significant advances, despite having fewer resources and personnel than the enemies rushes. defense ministry acknowledged ukraine's attempts to capture territories around buck moved but denied. they had been successful this year to the north and south, and the enemy made major attempts to break through our troops. defense was repelled all attacks, but units of ukraine's armed forces. no breakthrough is and our defense has occurred. oh, i don't have a ticket. what's the balcony, which is the scene of the long distance, is a sighting of the will. controlling it is strategic for both sides. must go seize best mode as a stepping stone to attack in all the cities. he says, keeping up his defense is buying time for me. that 3 could pass for a major town to offensive to retake russian occupied territory at the full front of russia's balcony. defensive is the private bog. nami,

it's stuff that made deluxe is, and it's leader. you have guinea pig horton has persistently accused most go of failing to properly supply his army with munitions. now a new scandal is brewing. on monday, the washington post came back back in january for the golgi and offered to betray rushing through positions to ukrainian intelligence in return for ukraine. pulling back its troops in document deposed site to the us intelligence league, and added that pretty versions of a had been rebuffed by ukraine, which the notes trust to him. first of all, pray goes and has dismissed the allegations, as soon as he denies talking to any ukrainian intelligence officials and kremlin spokesman dmitri pet schools has a so called the reports a hoax. activity, the inside thing on the russian side is intense. bought to whatever the trees,

it seems, neither russia nor ukraine kind of for to concede bus moved. and so the booth will fight for the city, continues the japan and trying to have used a new military hotline for the 1st time. on tuesday years and negotiation culminated in a 20 minute phone call between the jeopardy of defense minister and his chinese counterpart. a similar hotline has been in place between the pentagon and the chinese defense industries since 2008. but that has not always worked. washington says that basie refused to pick up the phone. after shooting down the suspected chinese 5 balloon of the west coast back in february, you may remember that the presence of the spy balloon also led us secretary of state anthony, blinking to postpone a visit to china. but both sides have moved to improve. what is an alarming lack of communication,

especially given the growing tensions over taiwan. president j biden's national security advisor jake sullivan, met with china is a top diplomat. wong e last week. here's the chinese foreign ministry spokesman on those talks. trump, out to the side had kind of they didn't that substantive and constructive discussion, some removing obstacles to improve china, us relations. i present deterioration volumes to tell them and to turn in the 2 sides. also exchange views on the national and regional issues of common concern, including here is your pacific situation in ukraine. you'll find that both sides agreed to continue to make good use of a strategic communication channel. us lovejoy now by tong job. he's a senior fellow in the nuclear policy program at the carnegie endowment for international peace is also a visiting research scholar at princeton university's science and global security program. mr. joe, it's good to have you on the program. i want to talk in just a moment about the dangers of how the taiwan issue was being discussed inside of

china. but 1st shine the end. it's links with the outside world. how dangerous is this lack of fast communication channels between the us in chinese leaderships? why it's uh, not really the lack of communication channels. the channels already existing. there are up to the most on one hot lines at the senior official level. it's between the 2 sides. the challenge is how can we insure the hotline and other communication channels? we will actually be used in a time of crisis. and so far what we are seeing is, often in china refuses to pick up the phone because the china wants to impose pressure on the other side at the time of prices. and in china is all the system is becoming increasingly centralized. so the tree officials as the front

line, be also reluctant to i. so the fall from their american counterparts because they need to 1st uh get approval from the piece called leadership in talking to the american officials. so that also makes it very hard to have substance. abe exchanges at a time of crisis. but is that the problem, mr. now is that the hotline should actually be between he represent the white house and she's in pain because in china she isn't being is at the top of the food chain . and he's the ones who can make the decisions. i mean, are they not connecting the right people to wells? there is actually a present kind of show level hotline between us and china that was established in 1998. but it was rarity, used at least a call according to public report. it may also, you know,

the result of how the personal preferences of specific topic leadership research e, for example, may not be a, so king a, as in your, in terms of his personality to respond quickly that you know, crises and who gave quick answers who, who's a foreign condo boss, he may need time to think through, and that makes maybe him a reluctance to use the phone. wanted to directly talk with american pride. yeah, i mean, of course you could argue that he could answer the phone and say president bite. and i need to think about it, i'll call you back. but obviously he doesn't want to do that. the, these talks between jake sullivan in wong e. what impact if any, do you think they're going to have on re establishing a, a hotline and offering maybe pads to the escalation? i think it is a positive sign up for a long time. chinese given that's a sink,

a refuse to communicate with their american counterparts. the american and boss to mister nick burns was unable to meet with his chinese conquered pard, full, but uh well after he arrived in virginia. but now uh, i think the chinese side is showing a stronger you interest. you resuming some of the regular communication channels. there has been signs of resumed operational level, you engagement between the 2 sides and not necessary on highly sensitive and national security issues, but you know, less so the to the issue is climate change, economic relationship you to search for. i think that the mysteries of what do you mean is on china is parts to gradually stabilize the us china relationship because china is still very much dependence american technology resources, investments,

etc. mister doug, you recently published an article in foreign affairs and we've pulled a quote from them. we wanted to share with our viewers because we think is this really got our attention? you right. the dynamics among china is political leadership. it's policy leads and the broader public have generated an internal feedback loop that is not entirely within, she's comprehension or control. this could result in showing that as being fully mobile wise for more, even without she deciding to attack taiwan. now, there is a scary situation that you are describing. how likely is that to happen? in other words, more with china in the us could break out and she's in think would really not want that to happen as well. i think it is important for the international community to understand how a very centralized chinese,

a system can generate a de facto mobilization towards war. we've all to anyone actually making unexplored decision to go to war. and basically a comes from 1st and foremost to mr. she's personal sense of mission to resolve the talent issue. and that's personal preference because of such a strong in incentive, in a highly centralized system for the operational level. officials for the policy needs to all catered to. she's a vision and to how k 5, his own thinking. so everyone is, you know, trying to think of, uh, you know, basically by the years of how we kinda achieve coerce, they've unification. nobody's raises questions about why do we have to do this on accelerated timeframe was a hard so nobody is asking the basic question everyone twice to make it happen. i

think that's it also makes the top here shape increasingly convinced that this is the right thing to do. an extra actually we've been trying has capacity to do it. i think that's how this internal feedback. nobody's particularly dangerous. yeah. and you know, at the national people's congress, it back in march. she's been paying, told his generals to be prepared for more. now, if we put that in this feedback loop that you've described, he's basically telling them that a war is going to happen. disney to the most necessary. i mean what he according to what we know of is mr. she wanted to the minutes rate to develop the option, the capability to, you know, take military action against a tie, one by 2020. so that, that doesn't mean mr. she has a desire to start war by 2027 because i still know it's, it's still, you know,

a common consensus within the international research community that china is top. the top gold top option is to achieve a unification through co. where is it a? well, ways out to actually fighting over. but the thing is, when he orders the ministry to give, develop such an option that since a very strong, essentially for the ministry to you know, develop all sorts of capabilities for the defense industry to also be highly mobilized for the policy. as far as to, you know, as, you know, generate the ideas of how to deal with the necessary military means to fight and bring the war and how to deal with that. you cannot make resist resiliency. mm hm. so that china wouldn't be undermined by international assumptions, culture and account weight types of positive feedback. everyone's thinking the same direction, no one is reading across, and there's no one that's in, there's no the one to teach the break into the system that is already mobilize

itself. to words a more. is there anyone around does she just think we've got 30 seconds left here, mr. joe? i mean, i'm just thinking what they're probably thinking in the white house about this. is there anyone around she's in being who has his ear? who could say mister president, we need to pull back, we're making a mistake. is there someone who's willing to say that knowing that she's in pain may not want to hear it? so i don't think away. no, uh, but i personally haven't seen any evidence of a senior level people waiting to take the personal risk to question or challenge mr . she's vision. yeah, i think that's a very scary reality that you described there. mr. tong, child with the carnegie endowment for international peace. fascinating talking with you. um that helps us understand that a lot more about what's happening between washington and b. g. thank as

well. the day is almost done, the conversation that continues online. you'll find this on twitter either and dw news. you can follow me on twitter and went golf tv and remember whatever happens between now and then tomorrow is another day. we'll see you then everybody the

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and drawing outside says be our guest at frankfurt and bought cd managed by from bought the this is dw news live from berlin tonight, the warranty, pre massive air strikes on the capital keep overnight. the ukrainian capital was targeted by attacks from the air officials calling them exceptionally intense and complex. the walls 6 african nations announcing a peace mission to russia and.