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tv   Close up  Deutsche Welle  May 17, 2023 9:30am-10:01am CEST

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must be on the new jobs. she's the face of a protest movement. i didn't think so many women would send me the photos. she's their motivator. all of us higher our lives must be the and she won't give up the stomach for public took my brother hostage a few days ago. but at the trying to sign in the scene on the job, they will be silenced. starts june 3rd on dw, the, the one by one, there being toppled. the soviet monuments of eastern europe. just over 100
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years since the founding of the soviet union. for some, they symbolize the victory over fascism. for others, aggressive russian imperialism. the one we don't want to destroy the race it or change it, but preserve the violence here here, the name of person who committed genocide like this time in the stop. it's like having a monument to the russian soldiers who raped and murdered and put you on the
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it's quiet in downtown keys, but the piece is deceptive. in air, read alarm could go off at any minute. and a deadly strike occurs. there's no electricity in running water for days on end. here on the banks of the deeper river, the people's friendship arch one symbolized friendship with russia. since april 2022, the space beneath it has stood empty. this is what the friendship memorial used to look like. but in april 2022, it was be headed. the you might think the people in key of have other worries right now then what to do with the cities monuments. but in fact, this question is loaded with significance. many are keen to see all traces of rush
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have gone. almost out of we know now what kind of friendship this is for the destruction of ukrainian city and the killing of tens of thousands of innocent citizens from the shop to the shop, give pieces, whatever. may i ask who i'm to the but not everyone wants to see soviet monuments torn down. people like, i mean, not acting on an unexcused bunch. he was there when the statues were toppled and filmed and being demolished. tell me retros to stay at home the anybody yet it would have been to also to watch a bus quite cool,
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especially given how brucely the money which was demolished will do once you have unfortunately one meter studies, an aerospace engineering and is an instagram on her account child of socialism, she posts soviet postcards, sixty's, architecture and increasingly awesome. the demolition of monuments including many of the commemorate the soviet army and world war 2. the annual and audits are store. i didn't like the fact that every thing of soviet is automatically associated with the russian on the me, on this vows with the pulled. and so to see if to her luggage book, find that it's hard to see these monuments being tuned down when there was a dedicated to ukrainians. relatives outfit are citizens right at those of
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so with 0 monuments to with ukrainian names on the tax look at the village by piece. and if i need them to me, right, takes us on a tour of cubes, threaten to soviet heritage. she's not pro russian. she hates, put them as much as the next person here, but she wants these testaments to the past to be preserved. a standpoint that attracts a lot of hate online. the, this monument is slated to be the next to go at the apartments. this is a monument to nikolai shows a red army commander who says in ukraine during the russian civil war. so just to go over the revised noah this issue. so as soon as have been planning to tear it down for a long time, someone scroll down, it's tammy down. i'm and execution and often frontier and y'all collage. what's the deal with that you're supposed to find me,
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but it's an amazing equestrian. the truth is to be it's downs at the junction between 2 streets and dominates the square across the new non. so it's beautiful, which is great. but now we're just going to be left with another empty pedestal. he's a new shores info. so for some in a government office and ukraine is in charge of this process of the soviet position, the ukrainian institute of national rememberance is housed and the former headquarters of the soviet secret police. its job is to banish the evil spirits of the soviet empire. the director, antoine double, which once soviet monuments to be carefully documented before the removed from the streets, the shores monument, he says, is a good example of one that needs to go to my mind most can if someone would send me
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stuff right on the center of kids that give you the monument to nikolai, show us basically the commander of the city when the communists to power in the early 20th century is a whole. the communist saw thousands of people without trials and missed that they looted in rob, suspended now. and we erect a monument to shows that are move on. there's no doubt it has artistic value, but it's not right that such monuments exist upon music, michael thought. best some of you all a sudden it's like having a monument to the russian soldiers who raped and killed them. put chelsea's can so nothing. it's not different of, of all way. they want you to tell somebody started the ball, which was back in his office for the 1st time in months since the beginning of the war he's been on the front serving is a drone pilot. this is lieutenant allowed him to take leave. so he could give this interview his co workers are happy to see him back unharmed. taking down monuments,
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finding russia on the front for double which these are 2 sides of the same site. the, the main task of this institute is to help shape ukraine's national identity and patriarch videos. for example, it promotes the remembrance of the more the great famine engineered by stolen millions of ukrainian starve to death. something that we've never talked about for decades. the one i mean, you're one of the cadets. no, i'll see the soviet union and rewrote is the raised really defined whole chapters of history. for us, those we should not only destroyed people, property also destroyed the memory of the event was for the moment a. it was a deliberate to tell a terry and undermining of the collective memory when they come up with an am a supply minute to get nobody to something that must be restored when that that's the main task of our institutional lesson as
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a whole bunch of questions which soviet monuments can stay at which can the motherland monument is one of the key. it's most recognizable landmarks. it won't be torn down. what about the soviet emblem on the shield? it's a symbol that's forbidden and ukraine. germany too is home to huge soviet monuments such as the soviet war memorial in the tier gotten part in the former west berlin, many ukrainian activists say that germany to needs to the soviet tice modern russia in general. so we use this with to you right now as a to continue with the processing right now. this is uh
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the showing of aggression uh and a flower which should not be as a call and it isn't memorial. it's not the memorial is just like the victoria place that shows one they recount is new. we can come again. and that's why the ukrainian activist collective feature made this set higher video the message stop the soviet and install just getting rid of them on the item of the 2 tanks in front of the soviet more memorial have been removed. their disappearance is being investigated by city authorities. historians like you can only see things a bit differently. things in sort of of things are the way they are of history happened, ogden and we don't want to destroy erase it or change it to preserve it in nuns on
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you as for what monuments represent best buy and a monument and always represent something that makes a statement, what's, are we trying to contextualize that x 12 is even if it's a statement we know condemned to it and we tried to remove its power within a change. all these other cuts as a name and your movie is the director of the museum berlin. calls forced. this is where the german surrender was signed on the night of may, 9th, 1945. commemorating the red army as part of movies, job one that is become increasingly difficult. until recently, it was called the german russian museum. cause was when putting invaded ukraine movie raised the ukrainian flag and remove to word russian from the museums name. but it still has a soviet tanks and weaponry. he thinks the memorial into god should remain
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q gotten pun so the tear garden tanks are a design component of the memorials. a, it's a dilemma ration of the data within, within towards we made a commitment to, if i pushed on, i can get on with it. and the idea behind it is that war groups are inviolable for all the turn it is. it's something i agree with. infinity station. soviet forces were stationed at the memorial interior garden until 1990 and finally completely withdrew from eastern germany in 1994. this was one of the terms of the 2 plus for treating the international agreement, signed by the soviet union that allowed the reunification of germany as part of the agreement, germany pledge to assume maintenance and repair responsibility for all soviet warm memorials in the country. memorials that often loom large, such as the one in to your garden. something some see is
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a symbol of russian imperialism. so it's actually very interesting because to in this budget line, could you receive that this soldier is like owning this land? yeah, the, it's for, uh right now he slammed ca. it's not about the people, it's about the land itself. we see that even that time. so between an already was under estimating the life itself. it's not about the uh, so the price and the life about that they have safe and not the live. it's about the father. there were 2 sides to the soviet army. its soldiers, not only russians, but also millions of ukrainians and others as well. help defeat hitler and the nazis and liberated oceans in the process, though, the red army suffered by far the highest casualties of all the allied forces.
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but the soviets, also committed atrocities as they advanced, and went on to oppress half of europe for decades. in the mornings to the red army base to have these 2 sides no rushes, war of aggression and the killings of innocent ukrainians have brought this evil side to the for the t. 34 tank monuments can be found across the eastern europe in poland. they're being dismantled, one after the other. the one that the $1000000000.00 cost was busy and it's still there, despite its negative associations. much deductible and this is you stand in front of it and it's a powerful piece of equipment august. it just years is gail is formidable double only regardless of the canon when the money and basically it was in del,
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on these tanks, was simply rolled over. people mentioned on probably by it's it's might as terrifying as nevada, but it's an expression of the power isn't in my thoughts took off. so on the one hand to void you make it expresses the power of the red army because most which helps defeat fascist subscriber them. but in today's poland, it's seen primarily as a russian tank and with russian is acquainted with soviet it's moscow which puts the most no one and wants it in on both of them. on the commissar design, how would it be that we have a symbol of our lives? this insides, but no symbol of the ukrainians who died or were deported during the 2nd world war fire. there's nowhere for us to go on may 8th and say much, this is for us, for our people, or what else there should be alternatives in places where you can go to show humility from where you can commemorating with contemplating. i'd feel this pain
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because this isn't the remembrance of celebration, but one of suffering death file so long as it's i'm unable to smell. ringback or what do we want to remember and what do we want to forget. busy these are questions that many ukrainians ask themselves when contemplating their history, the back in cubes. it's not just need more to memorials being torn down. but anything that serves as a reminder of russia. instagram or, and these are sitting on shows us an example in the train station often used as a bomb shelter where many don't want to see russians depicted here as heroes. there's no point in some, just beyond this is the best of the russian kind of push can go to i mean to do it
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one more. this was a girl came in to laugh and let me know. so can you hear them the, not all distressed plus they would cut it down because they might trigger and angry people. it was cool by so when you click on people kind of pushing and change smell . so these products have been voted activities. actually we're supposed to find the item maybe to protect them. it was, it should say it was but also so that people don't have to see them related as well . yeah, i think the private and i don't think this is how i should be treated as, believe me. i was just thinking it wasn't a personal or people of course have up to the congress and nash these boxes and destroy them. they have to be taken to a new zane or to or to cox and given context label to an explanation of what it is, how to and why it's yeah, i'm and thought of what they showed. why do we have so many push kittens and noticed that are bunches or 2 months months of bull shakespeare and almost why push
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them or not? because pushing is the most important part of the russian empire and the purposes you'll always find pushing on the main square. and try to shift to income or less. yeah. okay. income tucked away for squares further. and pie is not only a political construct to, but if it's an employee is something real quick and visible is what i get and it's environment that the monuments as pillars up the russian empire. ready the, that's how they're seen by many in the baltic states. in riga, lafayette, in 80 meters, soviet era obelisk was taken down, a red army monument and the lithuanian capital vilnius was also dismantled as was a tank monument in nor of estonia. all 3 of these former soviet states are now in the you. they take a tough approach to monuments for in this era,
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only grades and there monuments may remain the moscow on may 9th, 2020, to 2 and a half months after the invasion of ukraine. put later, reese on a world war 2 monument actually does every year. and is message russia undermined leadership is the legitimate successor to the victoria soviet union, the in ukraine's of russian occupied territories. there were celebrations marketing, victory day on may, 9th. in march, you pull at our salt, which has since been liberated the pollutants army following in the footsteps of its forefathers who fought the northeast. as liberators of the allegedly oppressed russian minority. a narrative,
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probably sheldon and russian television seaboard. yeah. we couldn't yet. today we finally get to where the st. george's ribbon again, you, we, where it was applied is got them on the and remember our armies who really needs you, which will never be forgotten. and you've got the news board, you know, billing is up with the world war 2 memorials in germany, and also meeting places for pete and supporters like the soviet memorial and the lens trip to work in the members of the ukraine. an activist collect beach. i don't like coming here unfortunately, somehow i came to this place and i didn't know buttons his day was in, crow, rush, and pro put in what for k through the berlin. they had the russian flags. people were extremely low out. and it was on the same way when the old world was shocked.
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what's happened in boucher for me it's folded so wrong and so it proves that it felt like celebration of killing of ukrainians. if there will be no warning minutes, it will be harder or to work with this me. so select to claim this identity over and over again. like you mentioned, there are no this great victory monuments, then they don't have a place to go. but isn't it important to preserve such places where soviet imperial power is displayed to understand how its propaganda worked and still works today? the the show here, the name of the person who committed genocide like this ton fiscal native genocide
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. because not just raise the culture but killed normal amount of people. i cannot imagine us to have, for example, in ukraine. some monuments was 6 or name or imagined it anywhere else in the world, like everyone accuses the defense or shape. they work with the memory, and here we see like one of the main dictators of the 20th century, just having golden letters origin, his quotations, in version the inscription is even regularly maintained. why? yeah, i think in germany we have the law of monument protection, which means we preserve all kinds of things, including these monument lines. that's one point because august the 2nd at least as a historian, i say, yes, this has historical significance and you preserve it as it is back in
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keith at the ukranian institute of national, remember it's a stolen quote in gold letters director uncomfortable, which wouldn't stand for that here, but he understands that germany has its own deal with history, the the fortune of my ability to stand still. there should definitely be a clock next to a head screw in russian with german ending, listening with them and putting the monument in context and why they didn't go in in office. what does the inscription mean? it's a dozen who is joseph stalin, which says it's dangerous because you'll only one step away from normalizing stylish or you're welcome and thought of states. and if kids vote by the old people who don't know anything of that history, they might think, look, he's been quoted here in the center of the land though he must be an okay guy. hope i'm in the every. what's the thought center, but the price of the money funding aflac given context
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for some monuments that could be a solution. but for something like the friendship arch and key if it wouldn't be enough. in this case, another solution was found a crack in the arch that once symbolized friendship with russia, the work of art, but also a political statement artist a lot he meant causing it. so at this crack in 2018, against the backdrop of calls for the release of ukrainian kremlin critics held in russian prisons. now with the war, his work has become a pointed symbol, the there was a blending maya black explorer and a solution of those by the arch, this huge, monumental event symbolized what was an artificial friendship. and of course, it was all propaganda with the key to molly possible. the friendship was
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meaningless to people who believe in the freedom and independence of ukrainian states. i fell on you should attempt it. it was like a youth that you would put on the next of horses or oxen, governments and uh, when they leave your husband, i see you all do my show what uh, what was the motor christmas? oh, uh, i think that's it. as 5, a lot of new cars in itself, it's on the crack on the object friendship between peoples. and what is one of the strongest artistic statements about just boston this of this friendship, and that'll be destroyed. friendship between russians, ukrainians, we move on to to i'm just not sure it goes far enough or yeah, but as often so it's wonderful just to, i would say is as such because on this desktop across a substitute, just got this because again i'm, you have to have from an aesthetic standpoint, i think the crack is just awful. you thought each has got arc on on such a beautiful metal arch. and then this picture on it is to me it's such
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an ugly addition to what i've now cause, but it's most of and tearing down the if it saves it, then it will have to stay for later. and we will, takes us to the key of suburb of hunting were last year. russian missiles hit residential buildings. the shelling, elect devastation in its wake with armando collateral damage. the russian army, supposedly the great protector of the soviet legacy, destroyed a soviet monument. just like it would, anything else here? the terrible, but you didn't rise in the hot on you. this is you defended us from the gym and occupies the rest of the new occupies came and they destroyed residentially or
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among the following many ukrainian names. the soviet soldiers who defeated fascism were by no means all the russians but several of them was the boynton through which is beautiful. the problem is that christian has hijacked the image of the soviet soldier. i'd say to you d, e a on this board is this. we have to use this glorification full propaganda against us. so crane in and for us to solve. so could i use? so i'm not coming for which has found we're letting him know that you want me, you know, we're giving him the right to these images. um, when actually they were made for us, it was for the right decision when the mentor uses 3rd is done us is for who i think we should be using the money and the strength and the spirit of resistance and long ukrainians who still was most small once again, with lights on the occupying forces, just as the money man because of it. but instead we're tearing down these monuments
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small assume the dissociate monuments, 13 extra complete link to the question of identity. for some they are monuments of oppression. expressions of rushes claim to power. for others, they are testaments to the past. works of art, we're holding onto the ultimately, there's a broad consensus that they shouldn't be destroyed, that they should be preserved. perhaps none of the original sites, but at least the museums assignment witnesses to the soviet empire of its greatness. and it's a treatments and it's atrocities the
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another thing india is to use the highly mountains of the human a springs and providing sustainable electricity this pilot project have awaits excitement neutrality depot in 30 minutes on the w. the, the, the,
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this is dw news, live from ballot holding russia to account for as well. and ukraine. europe leading rights bought a mates for the 1st time and only 20 years. and it says that both support key, frontal adjusts piece is a change. also coming up.

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