Skip to main content

tv   To the Point  Deutsche Welle  June 2, 2023 2:30am-3:01am CEST

2:30 am
every price of the $2.00 in the country like to keep taking on the powers that be the risk. everything turned into our needs. activists, journalists, and politicians living in exile the way to which of the list for their mission, what drives them. people need to know what is happening to our series guardians, as truth watch. now, on youtube dw documentary there is increasing confusion about the war and ukraine. what happens to the anticipated contra offensive board is keeps current strategy and other recent drawing a tax on most co cross of dollar part of that counter offense. or is key of trying to create the military destruction unsettled the russian public. or is that
2:31 am
something else behind it's in any case, the russian leadership is threatening retaliation and continuing to use drones and miss of also against keith, where civilians are still dying. we look at the constantly shifting battle fields and ask all those joint attacks on russia part of the ukrainian country. if it's the welcome to to the points i'm pleased to introduce today's pat. that's cool stuff. trust so military expert, either you or p and council on foreign relations, are they say you support the head of the russia department of they sleepless able to foundation, think back on why ukrainian colleagues say that points come from the thoughts of others studio in brussels and welcome
2:32 am
to all of you because of that mixed up with you. um. let's just look at the most recent developments. the russian has increased a stronger tax in, in recent days, even during the day why? so i'm hoping of munitions available where you see from the wreckage is over these massages to the produce fairly recently. and so basically we saw as a, i'll fire that's the least a factory rush. i had a, a slumping production because of sanctions because of interruptions supply chains. i bought uh these uh, these interruptions only hold temporarily. so the substitution programs to use chinese electronics instead of west and ones del smuggling programs to kind of buy these supp components and special materials through 3rd countries and prostate enterprises avoid the way to avoid being function yes, to, to avoid being sanctioned. and to, or at least in this part of,
2:33 am
of russia's arms, industry of the production curve is again pointing upwards. so they have caused their have more munition to fire. and that's, that's what they use. except you credit seems to be defend quite well against these attacks. they shoot down arrow, the cruise missiles, apparently, but how much of that success is, is owed to, to west and weapon systems. actually most of it, because without it, we would see much more this, we would see much more casualties. we would see so much more destruction. just remember that the 1st of such a defense system, i think, got into ukraine in october of last year. so what we, what were you seeing before that there were low. * it's more there with thousands of people dying after each attack was much more dangerous now from the psychological point of view as well. ukrainians feel that they are much more
2:34 am
protected every time they say thank you to our defenders, but also thank you to the new defense systems. it is quite obvious that it had made a huge change in if we can call in the quality of life of ukrainians. but at least they don't have to fear in the immediate dest. i'd say, that one only drone to tags by russia and attacks on keith, but they will also during tax bio, print on russian territory. what's behind that strategically? what do you think? it's a good question because they're quite silent for obvious reasons about what exactly was the aim and we have to see that there are different logics behind. and i think that tax that has to have happened in moscow, although it's not completely clear if it was, the drone crashed on purpose. if they were armed with explosives, it's a bit unclear in the russian propaganda, of course frames all of them as terrorist attacks that suits the narrative. but in
2:35 am
general, this is for me more apt, psychological part of this account offensive to show that the reach of a potential strike is quite expensive. and also you have to imagine most cars, not the board, a city. so they are flying over quite some area with other people living and it's, and to be honest, most going itself is defensible in defense. but the general idea that, you know, it's not that uni latrell shooting and being, it's shooting and being shot at. that's important, although i would say that the results, the psychological, the political results of the most co attacks are most, it to be seen that the kremlin is deciding how to react properly. that's, i'm clear. and the people are getting nervous, the russians because they also don't know what the criminal will decide. it's not about the immediate danger of continuous attacks. it's the uncertainty of it. and that's, that's helpful. this is a different story from the attacks in the border areas where there are ukrainian drones in that area. and so on to. this is actually an exemplary form of account to
2:36 am
offensive now, and it goes to the kremlin toko, you mentioned there just mentioned that the, the possible reactions accredited, talked about the harvest possible retaliation to those attacks. what does that mean? basically nothing because they are able to continue their strikes as they would continue without those that are, there is no 2nd guard one the land. this has got the guards, one the army and living in one the lands training with one of the weapons. that's wonderful. we will change the culture of the war for, for voting. and the russian military already is quite stretched. of course that has to be restored. that defense has to work. so probably that there will be resolution cetera. but that's all of the call of she um the, the russia has exhausted a lot of it's, it's military means it is, it is playing a long war game now. and is that it's also for russell's corps,
2:37 am
means that during the close of the long will, it will be hit a one or the other time. now, the longer this will, the higher, of course, the desk told, gets especially close them. all of the soldiers fighting this war, nobody knows the exact numbers. but according to us, intelligence estimates via crazy inside alone, a self at about 20000 deaths, and far more than 100000 injured soldiers sofa. but while the names high and a wanting some view as may find the images in the next report upsetting, they was cool most around the clock and save anyone they can severely injured soldiers transported from the front and dropping disability hospital and keys. we tried to save these lives fast, but sometimes we have to amputate. it's especially difficult on young people who
2:38 am
suffer from war trauma. ready ready the soldier just about managed to survive, but he lost his leg and he has to learn to live without his for all this power trooper was seriously injured on the very 2nd day of the russian invasion. now he wants to return to the front. i was afraid because the town way i spent my old childhood was on fire and being destroyed, how long the ukrainians soldiers hold down against the russians. who now number them how to bad those, those images. um, i like say that as we just saw, the pricing spirit are things too crazy and soldiers seem seems lawfully unbroken. but, but in the end, she and numbers took the balance and pollutants facing. it's for the fact that the
2:39 am
rush has no on the strategic defense. they don't need to actually lead fans. and this is actually a shift, as opposed to last year when the strategy was to subdue and actually concur and destroy ukraine. now, well, you see the russian forces are overstretched and exhausted, but the most, they need to regroup and hold the line and, and good stuff cause i mention to the whole idea that russia can injure ukraine for a very, very, very long time. that's the strategy. so the momentum is often cited is there, and the question is of the contract. and so we'll put the ukraine into position to see if the momentum on the minimum is a very strange it war to use. but it consist of different things at the moment. it's, i'm clear. so the longer the counter offensive is not convincing and invisible way and it's clear it's not the decision based scenario, but still, the longer it isn't getting more comfortable for russia to just sit it out. so that's actually not about the numbers and the motivation by itself. it's also but
2:40 am
about the timing and this leads back to supplies. i'm addition, west and support and so on. time is not working for ukraine at the moment to now the talking about the whole time is working a note for ukraine. how much more loss is, how much more suffering as we've just seen. and you find that ukraine has no choice and ukrainians have no choice. and this is what everybody keeps repeating. we have to hang on. we have to hold on and survive and try to make the most out of it. people in the front line, people away from the front line, people in the occupied areas. they all have different problems now. but the same time, they are old trying to carry on their old trying to survive and bring ukrainian victory closer. so of course they are living under enormous stress. they constantly
2:41 am
experienced a cox. so all the motions which is fear, which is joy when they may live, maybe one more day or one more months. so maybe their whole life because then miss, i'll hit a neighbor's house and not there's, you know, and then there's hope that this would end soon because there is another weapon system coming from the west, which can change the situation in the battlefield. and then there's another attack, and there's fear, again, and stress stress stress because of the unknown. and because there's very limited influence, even though as an ukrainian you send your money to help the army or to support civil initiatives. but there's very limited influence of a citizen can have on the situation, that good stuff, you kinds of military leadership said that ready for the condo offensive. we've had that for a long time. we're waiting for this counter offensive. what's all the credible science that we need to look out for that
2:42 am
b condra offensive is going to happen while we're on the preparatory phase. so at the time still, we were still off. um, i think the intensive attacks on come on and control posts in uterine sales or something to watch out for robin indication that the grounds offensive might commence ra this through nurse. because these are taxed at the, basically the estimate that the local russian on forces groupings to react on these come on posts will be rebuilt in a couple of days, a weeks of. so if you want to use the momentum you build with a storm shelter strikes and out, but to be quicker. the other thing is ones that have on time lines a lot about this offensive is logistics to get the munition, but also to get it into ukraine. to disperse it,
2:43 am
to prepared the cetera logistics preparations all extensive because we're talking about a very lot moss of will soldiers tanks, equipment that will be part of that offensive. and that's all very trivial on, on hands. but it's also very difficult for us to look into these preparations that goes ukraine's kept them a secret to us can be about. they billed by and large to, to him on the timeline. so what do you think? what are the, what's the likelihood that we see the contra offensive process to start within the next 4 weeks? like here it seems to be very good. that's a sad this strikes and this house indicate that the that for mental needs to be billed for all the sooner. and uh, the so of course with my question, how big would it be? will it be smaller offenses or will ukrainians achieve a breakthrough that enables them to exploit funding throughout the entropy your
2:44 am
gains? that's that verdict is still out there. of course they're all good chances for your train to have a major breakthrough bought in military. they're always chances there, you've never secure whether a band might work or not because it's, it's a very complicated affair. so now let me just put this in question to you. i mean, you have your feel as into the country that is under attack there. what's the feeling inside of ukraine, about this contrast offensive? people are hoping that it would come in soon, and people are hoping that it would bring the victory closer victory, meaning liberating the occupied territories by russia and people. of course, they would like to believe that it's coming very soon. they are off to mistake because as i said, sometimes hope is the only thing they have. and sometimes their principals is the only thing they have. they don't want this bad piece as they say they don't want
2:45 am
just, you know, for this to stop, but to be frozen for, you know, as is uh in the state of school. if possible, right? is it? well, nobody knows what's going to happen really, but ukrainians according to statistics and according to what people i know say they don't want this kind of scenario to happen. they really want to recover all the territory and they want russia out of the country because anything russian right now is extremely irritating and causing more every time it's more and more rage. this is very interesting that you mentioned this. so let me put this to you the is, is it likely that there will be a compromise, i mean, with just uh, the most ukrainians. want to find that so to the end of the, to solve as a company, let's truth. so what does it mean to find it through the? there is the language saying the moment the last russian soldier leaves the legal territory of ukraine. there is a military victory. but again,
2:46 am
let's see that most if aggression and violence always inflicted at the moment to ukraine in cities are rocket strikes and drones. this will not happen by the late a soldier just leaving your claim. it doesn't. so if you are this, so this is for a 2nd, maybe your brain would have the plane by that time the, that the fighter just, which isn't close, it's waiting for your bringing. yes. so the question is, this is one second, isn't a military success. how does it translate into political change? there was a theory of change saying look, that you create an offense if it's successful, means some kind of a military and humiliation for the russian side. community recommendation could be imagined in terms of a collapse of the front line. so maybe there was a large number of people in circles, so something which ignites a disruptive moment inside the russian state apparatus. i'm very skeptical about this because i see high capacities of the kremlin to manage any kind of technical military defeat. even if we would agree that this is a defeat, this doesn't necessarily translate into political turmoil. this is the 2nd thing,
2:47 am
the front thing is that in order to maintain ukrainian security outside of nature, you wouldn't need to much higher sustained level of supply some good stuff cuz i think i mentioned it's a bulky, munitions, but fuel it's about training. it's about repair basis and so on over a continued period of time years. i'm not quite sure isn't your opinion where very yet there is this catch 22 problem. everyone expects wonders from the ukraine and offensive when you get the inside, in order to trigger a conversation about how we're going to do this for the next 10 years. and thinking where inside of this, there might be a time for the political process, but this is what the expectation is. they've already seen wonder is because let's, let's remember the talks about how ukraine would fall in 3 days. you know, and yeah, it's, it's my favorite example, it was a wonder because as you say, gosh, i was, you know, a russian knew very well what they were doing and ukraine was standing there alone . no 4 and soldier would help. 6 ever on the ukrainian territory,
2:48 am
ukraine didn't have all these weapons. the thing is russia was an offense and now rushes when the defend. yeah. so it takes a completely different momentum and effort to change the situation. so the comparison is correct in terms that you're creating has and you create a new destroying the people have performed. are absolutely amazing that beyond any expectations. but the thing is that even if this counter offensive fis extremely successful, it doesn't necessarily end the war at this very moment. and that's true, it's more, but it might change it. and i think this is the most realistic that we can expect. let me pick this up, a good stuff if there is a problem, is that have already seen risk and strategy. we have this verse for it as long as it takes a loss. those ass leave off. there's a huge delta between the rhetoric and the actual supply you're treating gets. now, of course everybody understands that there is no the come to offensive. and for a lot of european countries, there's a kind of a trial balloon. they hold for a settlement to happen. they're off to like, yeah,
2:49 am
this would be embarrassing for putting wouldn't that embarrassing defeat make them negotiate? what is not that the problem is, as we seen with this counsel funds, if you knew we have the pulse, basically since last, last all to him about the supply of certain weapons system. let's remember the low part to debate. it takes months to bring them into your train, it takes months to prepare them for shipment, etc. now everybody's basically waiting for the account to offensive and will happen to over the summer. you train us time over the summer to make good and territory and then a multiple then watch. where is our preparation for the next shipment, very solid defense industrial strategy to relieve equipment that ukraine would need . and i've said if we can replace it in europe, it's not there. everybody is like sitting there saying no, but what's, what is going on? i mean autumn is, oh my god, we should have, we should have, we should have. i'm really losing time again. and then basically we have these over at the falls as the go with the winter, etc. and most coolest fine with that. as by now, basically,
2:50 am
putting has realized who will not win the war by the merits of his own glory as ami bought by the whole world that donald trump maybe if he returns in 2024 by political divisions in the west. he may be present at with a victory in ukraine because of the sort of western supply drawing out. so he's playing for time and we are not on the competing, his confidence in the play for time buying what we're doing. and unfortunately it takes too long. it's true because if your opinion says, uh, let's create this asap be so act uh, in support of the munition production. uh lets bold for it. let's have this 3 phase plan where we give you crane the i'm you mission that we have been reimbursed. the countries then we, we change our contracts, then we produce more. uh, even if it's done at the fastest, you know, pays that the european union can go. it's still too slow for ukraine in there. of
2:51 am
course you are. right. and there, i'm safe food, you know, you very well what she was doing. so anything that the you does or the community of 50 plus states does in order to militarily support ukraine, shows great. anything shows great support. but still, unfortunately, it's an ukraine says that as well, they admitted it's not fast enough and it's simply not enough. they are happy about any kind of help. they are expecting to get the fighter jets now, which were considered to boil, actually, uh, some time ago for them to every to boil. so far has been negotiate with negotiated, but still anything in terms of looking at the suffering of you create his last lives of how fast it should actually die. the dynamics of the war is anything right now that we're seeing is too slow. can i? um, it just points towards the the might might sound a bit heretical,
2:52 am
but let's bear with thoughts. so the average russians in the area is that uh now uh, getting attacked. uh, what's the move, the thing are in the mood. i mean, there are areas at the board, the, on the russian sides have been witnessing a, a war creeping into their actual cities for a long time. now it's not like now is there is a what, a shut moment for a year last. yeah. well, you almost 4 year they have been strikes and struggle since comments just as incursions. so the war is the reality there. and there is a big difference between the population of the big cities, including most consent that has but because they feel that the very this, the both coming ukrainian suffering but also from the suffering of their own competitor. it's at the border. so for them now, the uncertainty is both about it's just they are, there was a lot of, um, there was a lot of anger about the local authorities about both the troops. and this is why the government in the military will need to react in this works. so military,
2:53 am
really speaking, reinforcing your board a means that you're taking away forces which i use for the aggression. this is a good strategy in terms of the day to day. most people don't really think about the politics of it. so they see kids have to be of that create that some houses are attack. there was a need to go back into areas which have been quite a few to check on your houses and so on. their reality is they are, and i think the less mature was that, even if you think your political mazda might, you can put a war into a box. and to say, this is a special military operation, and this is war and this is peace and i will be able to contain and what russia is with this thing right now is that you cannot hold a war on the lease, it takes that space and it goes and expands by itself. this is what's happening. let me pick this up. you kind of a, keep a boy on a lease. if we zoom out a bit and talk about the roof and, and what's, what's happened there is neighboring, both russia and ukraine. and it's president lucas said recently that russian
2:54 am
nuclear weapons and i'm stationed in investors, is about to be taken serious. and what really happens, does it matter? it makes no difference administrator. and i think it makes a lot of difference in political terms as a little crushing. ca sees that as a, as an insurance policy for his personal life. he wants to have a guarantee that russia will fight for him. and of course, if the russian nuclear weapons on the ground, the bellows is one incentive for, for, for, for these are we, we will not take chances in any form of unrest. we will have to keep location, couldn't place that is actually a russian nuclear storage site just behind the board or federal. so any new kill and the bar nuclear sharing, so called if you're sharing agreements between a better russian on forces and the russian. unfortunately before that because that in the context of the union state, uh, even according to prove old ministry doctrine and unrest,
2:55 am
documents that are fellows would be defended also by new care means instead of the very we are a combination of the 2 state entities which they've had for the kids. yeah. what time is the better than you have excuse for both parties to do basically whatever, whatever they want to do, whatever they like to accountability and we perceive right now, the more it goes on, the more we perceive voters as just an extension of russian, you know, policies and politics are ukrainians, worried about the roots getting thrown into this? well of course the ukrainians are worried. ukrainians basically are worried, but the thing is there is nothing new that one can expect from lucas shang call. so it's, it's quite predictable. what's gonna happen? nobody is, is, is expecting that lucas angle would suddenly change his mind or say, to poor to know, or, you know, drift towards europe. it's, it's all quite clear. lots smaller to discuss all the time is up. unfortunately, that's it for this edition. to the point, i hope you enjoyed our discussion and do joining the conversation. if you happen to
2:56 am
watch us on youtube, leave your comments and thoughts down below. we'd love to hear. i'm going out office from me my panel here in the studio and it seems like thoughts, the
2:57 am
science 1000000000, plastic bottles are produced by the drinks industry every year. worldwide. a quarter of this comes from coca cola. the company wants to do more for the environment and promises to recycle every buffalo sold by 2013 green washing
2:58 am
or real change coca cola and the plastics problem. the doubling their fields flooded their homes, buried in like people in northern are struggling with the aftermath of recent despair is now mixed with anger. at the authorities for green lighting, you're responsible construction projects and neglecting environmental policies. why is more, more land being paved over focus on europe? 19 minutes on t w. the only way i can be off top is to create my own empire,
2:59 am
discover stories to just to take away the journey. the destination right? size house based document, trees research slide now. okay. main street. one small step for a robot vacuum. one giant leap for exploiting the ocean floor. cutting edge technology is unlocking the potential of deep sea mining. but this time, a research team will study the possible risk 1st scene order to minimize them. the may have an opportunity to get it right before we move from star environmental activists or skeptical. is this true nature conservation or only
3:00 am
green washing? the, after all, there are billions to be made. our chief documentary deep, the greed starts due date on d, w. the . this is dated with the news live from goodly. the current in president pl. automated soleski makes a surprise of parents in neighboring multiplan, slaves from some 50 european countries make to discuss how to help you crane more and how to protect themselves as well. at least 3 people are killed.

13 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on