the 2 campaigners on active catholics, both are committed to reforming that charge. marie, masha grew up in a liberal catholic. um, she's been involved with the local church for as long as she can remember. today she's employed by the german catholic women's association. fighting for women's rights and the charge is on line swap. the veronica davis was not a straightforward, veronica partially grew up in a use welfare, the latest finding charge through a student community. often graduating, veronica entered a religious order for a year. now the activist is completing a ph, d, and theology. that is involved in the out in charge initiative for queer catholics to i'm asking for you to see it fast as the women, as i have the feeling that something's and the same as being a part of humanity as ministry of topics are missing. but many perspectives on life

are missing. if you see the church has a body of a mystical body to live in a part of that body, this isn't a missing on the field. i'm sometimes the sly of us so long. i remember most that came. we don't want to take anything away from anyone. i think one instead be adding something. if we women can also become priests bishop system and, and of course eventually f o and i still haven't lost hope. i know it's hot, but even still mid december 2022 at the st. can easiest judge in berlin. marie anti fellow campaign is us be heading something of a catholic revolution here. father mindset her so makes is judge available to the group. the worship. he agrees that women have to few rights in the church, so he's happy to provide his support with us, i'll tell from do a from the fact that women don't allowed to perform. baptism says, or lead a congregation to the fact that they have no right to vote in church bodies and can

only hold advisory roles as i find it unfair because i does. that's why i tried to use the modest means at my disposal to give these women a place in my trying to she, i don't the home get marie and veronica are both members of the catholic activist group, maria to point of it demands full equality for women in the catholic church about and campaign is received support from the protestant community that evening. micro shift that is a protestant pasta for many centuries, such a pots of protestant women was not possible. we have suspicious, it's important to me to stand by the side and support them in taking stat and fighting the fight. i'm able to, i can stop. i want to support my catholic brothers and sisters are interested in the catholic church. women are generally confined to the pews, but in today service they going to stand in front and preach as women in protestant

churches are already permitted to do. the name of the protest group, maria, to point to reflect its focus on mary, the mother of god and today service does 2 do not be afraid, mary. you sound favor with god and behold, you will conceive and give birth to a son. see she has regard to below the midst of a handmaiden and behold from henceforth full generations. so call me blast. we mean preaching is unacceptable to many conservative catholics, taught the members of maria to point to do it anyway, toys. so it was a great, really nice experience,

the congregation and the atmosphere with the music. the fact that i was allowed to be here in this church today was something very special for me. because for the 1st time i stood in front and was allowed to read from the gospel of luke and the catholic touch, it's not customary for women to read from the gospel. and i'll send this a new v. as in mike, a shifts a the protestant pasta is headed to judge cheese opponents catholic sisters because in the past we mean we're not allowed to become pastors in the protestant judge ita women have only had equal rights in german. his protestant church since 1998 the micah schiffer. it was a divine calling. yeah. and these are the kids to dislike of mind. i can now be a pasta in this church in this congregation of these are all, and i hope that this place will become a diverse and lively place. are full of people who are welcome to come as they are

and can celebrate live and worship, and leaving. that's my dream. open kind of mind how monica is also in influenza. about 25000 people follow on instagram. she's been often the i'm on my way to the put cost studio to record in new episode is my post cost. and i'm a little late and let's see if the others are they get an update on that as well. take you along with me is me much moment. this is a new generation of religious women, molden, confident and reaching across religious lines. and had found cost 331. the christian pasta talks to a muslim woman and a jewish woman about feminism and matters of faith. the poet cost is financed by the house of one, an inter religious project in berlin. house this welcome to

a new episode is 331 i 3 women, 3 religions, one topic, the interlude just put cost from the house of one. this is rebecca speaking and i am back with my wonderful co host cooper. and micah, hello, nice to be back, design is for me. i'm excited to today we have another serious topic about we're talking about the revolution any wrong. so let me on. each of them is fighting for women's rights. and one of the 3 major well religions succeed in address stereotypes and prejudices. for example, the anyone who thinks that cooper's headscarf is that on. so with a feminist podcast, the host set the record straight, the people who bought it just quickly. the pointed question to you, would you say that the tool compulsion in slum, for instance, the compulsory heads cost uncomfortable from somebody that you know is on,

has no composing at all because there is a very clear principle. okay. no composing in religion. the sympathetic, as mentioned, there are people though who instrumental as religion and want to carry out their own agenda through it to you and in the soviet between one and also abuse it do, you know, kind of the women advocate for diversity and tolerance in and between the major world religions this women lead religious movement is the one about empowerment, respect, and solidarity. so it goes without saying that marie, a catholic, took part in the demonstration, supporting women in iran. the young activists think about reforms and women's rights that reach far beyond their own communities. god of this to own in. we women of different religions and stand together in this already exists in full wild religions. but this support must grow doing district, especially like tween different religions wishing especially. and then we're going to, we christians, stand up for muslims to jewish people,

wells white and verified dogs. and just me, i wish there was even better corporation to them unite women of all religions, all. and i love it and that's my dream. and the women and quit people is over the dense united to another. go and find the story. we saw the veronica supports germany's green party, the activist campaigns, even when it's cold and raining good evening and can i give you some election info, hello, info about the election? veronica is non binary and identifies as positive into the german acronym stands for women, intersects non binary friends, gender, and age and individuals. veronica wants to deepen understanding all tony in the

truck drive, bought in society as a whole, space and stuff. i think it's important that we as people are shaping society, perhaps, especially as people who bring a certain amount of experience has been to individual. i think a party like the greens offers a very good way to help define and shape society side. so how to talk religious leaders in room see these issues. the vatican is the administrative send to the catholic church and told him to the pope, the judge, his spiritual leader, german calls for reform done seem to be taken very seriously. and however, po process is committed to strengthening into religious dialogue and the number of women in leadership positions that the vatican has grown significantly during his pontifical. on the other hand, he's previously made clear that the ordination of women is not a question open to discussion. the back in cold berlin,

the young catholic marie is not willing to accept this. she argues that jesus had women disciples. she believes the judges tradition of only ordaining men had to do with the times. not the will of god, the world is changing and she wants people in her charge to re think they have used to exercise best spiritual freedom. quite high, productive for me is um, saves, push to move on to buy me freedom means self determination and openness. i rarely experience back to my church. i think this is my ideal being free and the church to do what i want to know about this math course, following good rules and in a meaningful way. yeah, it's in effort. the old as a catholic church was marie spiritual home throughout childhood. it seems sometimes that feeling of home is at risk of slipping away the german catholic women's association when the re works as being campaigning for

women's rights. but over a century, the association has around a 180000 members in germany. so marie is certainly not alone in her desire for change. as pontiff and maria to point out campaign, protesters hung back to mines to the dos of valid charges in a gesture reminiscent of mountain loose the but i'm like, the found a process to into them. these reform is one to remain members of the catholic church. they want to change the institution from within marie anti fellow. campaigners don't understand why that charge refuses to step in to the 21st century . the converting to protestantism isn't an option marie considers. ida is has been dos, go back to the catholic church as my husband and i grew up in it and feel at home

that of course i understand the language, im services and the litigious. well, that's why what i don't want to do is make room for the people who wouldn't leave under any circumstances. these are the right wing catholics, mostly men in the us stay as long as i can make a difference. i am so long you're supposed to let me, and i'll try to make sure that we really make progress. ms. answer. explain this to you because i won't give up my place so quickly because that would be nice leaving without to find that i went to the slide off i left in the small a few weeks later. there's a show down in frank font. it's the last day of a meeting of send a double pulse, the reform project of the german catholic judge. late people and bishops have been discussing reforms, the rights of women and queer people on 2 of the most controversial issues. the votes are still pending. one of the bishop's advocating reform is hi,

nicole. the archbishop that fell in marie and veronica hoping that his boat is, i'm just like, it's exhausting. it's goal oriented. there's pressure to unite as many people as possible simply because the necessary process is that note i'm as convinced of that . now as i was in the beginning, i was able to, we have to go through this the most, but we must pursue a path, but it's open ended and evicted by perhaps we have wanted to achieve too much in a short time. i'd give all that content over rhina, maria and funky opposes the reforms he into a small group of bishops, almost ended the whole process of the last meeting in september of 2022. because if the, if the bishop's vote against the motion, it's defeated to now it's a protest group is gathered in front of the conference. whole they call themselves the catholic youth movement for them to send it the policies, the wrong power. they want things to stay. the way they are

for them, quinn is, is a scene and women priests are against the will of god. it's been yeah. um, it's towards us and used to be them 5 young ones. i'm here with the catholic youth movements and innovation because we are very concerned about the direction in which the senate will path is the middle of the positions are being adopted here that clearly contradict catholic due to the question in the district and to split the church this thoughts, i love to make a thoughts from them just my him. the conservatives believe that the risk of causing a breakaway movement and splitting the charge must be avoided at all costs the . despite the protests, a clear majority of germans, a representatives and bishops voted in favor of the reforms. the fast total of the day is the text to allow the blessing of same sex unions in german catholic judges . it's a practice the vatican has forbidden. then the vote on the role of

women in the catholic judge phillip outside has been vocal in supporting the idea of women being ordained before the final vote. she was optimistic since when antics nations, even if the text is not adopted, it's out in the world and everybody can read it. we won't give up on this issue. it's so important. the question of women is simply the most important issue for the future. to get to kind of just to avoid a 3rd of the patients blocking the motion. the reform proposals are continually warranted down the women who feel called to the priesthood. discouraged, you know, the wound of it as tight and effective and fine. so what happens when such is so my inner wound will only here when we have full access to all ministries and offices in the church. i like living my vocation as a non for good, but i can't live part of my calling before god. this is not

a felt calling as an experienced calling, and i'd like it to be tested. not just passed over because i'm a woman. mission you want to back. i'm going to try to call things in the end, it becomes about women being old, a deacons to assist the priest. and that dude is still, it's only a recommendation. ultimately, the pope designs this compromise motion is accepted for some it is bound to little, but others believe it has opened the door to the priesthood for women to opt at the vote. philipo hodge and fellow campaigners celebrate. so he believed to put a decisive step towards the ordination of women as being achieved. spin yes, even on the face time. 67 now. so if i live another 20 is i hope to tell and

experience the 1st student ations. it's not, do you guys fine, any facility will pump resolutions on the declaration of intent in the end, each bishop is free to decide whether he wants to act on them or not. occupation call from bowen says he's taking a lot out at the meeting. the billing village police company got teeth on the with inside there's the will to break new ground life in terms of communication, or deliberation, and decision making. and there's the courage to broach issues where we don't degree things. my great concern is how we can stay together in the one church and even if we have very different ideas about the church, of them have ideas about what comes next. i'm going how we move forward over how you goodbye to again. shortly afterwards, the vatican issues a clear the to the resolutions of the gym and reform project on not recognized by the pope. about 2 years ago, pope fronts is launched

a world wide pro sense of listening and dialogue about the concerns of german catholics received little attention. ringback passing of same sex unions and relevant ordination of women. not on the table. a pessimists be a schism in the german catholic church. ultimately want to keep the discussions going. the definitely the that's as we have to as much side that we thought it would happen now that the pope would do and he's great interest 4 months then came to statement, we were a little disappointed. those are arguments from the seventy's to go. however, the archdiocese of berlin is still sent on over a phone calls. the most visible sign of this is the catholic cathedral. it stands in the middle of the city and is being completely rebuilt. the ballad diocese, who's trying something new here,

the strict hierarchy of clergy at the front end to believe us that the bank is being completely reimagined the entire charge, choose being gutted, and rebuilt and this is how it should look when it's finished. the ulta in the middle freely accessible, the believe us on the same level with it. the orange bishop meets with the to maria, 2 point o activists in his office. he wants to answer the questions about the changes that have to come in by then to take a seat on spaceship heiner calls faces a dilemma. the pope $1012.00, the german reforms. and there are people in his diocese who don't either,

but also to i'm and catholics on ega for change. now, german historian josefina phone via has also joined the discussion at the archbishop to request. she wants the charge to keep its traditions. that's in the quote, may i ask a provocative question, why do you want reforms and vanish so doesn't make any sense to take the enter reform is with you hold on. i say no, it started line. but guess it was a know i'm was that if we don't see that the church needs to be renewed, then we're not feeling it's mission symbols. it will become a museum. but as to the direction. but what is the progress versus a step backward? that's the key question does that we have to discussed and reflect display, can we take everyone with us? it's been my task in the past or, you know, i hope that we can take as many people as possible with us advice, i know would be easier to say. good bye. let's split out and marble create a department store with everything under one roof on each person with their own shop. i don't want that. it does meet the lines are already drawn at this meeting.

you as a uniform via is opposed to women being or dang, deacons, all priced data. no, i want to be of service. i don't have to be ordained for that. i don't want a status endowed with power. that's totally twisted hard for the that's my guess. i'm just busy, the being of service may be the right thing and work for you. but i know there's lots of women who say it doesn't work for me. as i know that i'm cold. i haven't in a certain d, suffice the fiscal this minute or something up the end of the good beside it doesn't the bicycle is low, but i think it would be enriching and it's quite possible just size. and i think it would be a good sign. there were also women and the ordained ministry serving at the altar by it installed the means women as deacons assistance to the priest. but archbishop cost requires permission from the vatican to all day women. however, he could allow the nice thing is the same sex unions and his dice is at his own risk. yes, i'd be interested child with the time table is one thing. when you think of places

will be set up and were queer couples who wants to be bless, can go and ask for a priest of less than a piece. the common gun is most of it needs to be an issue in the parish models. i don't want to impose anything on anybody, but i'm determined to see it happen. my name isn't my current position is that it will work and i'll do it. doesn't get rid of hell to the blessing of queer couples has been discussed in the german catholic church. but he is thought that it should happen now is still too hasty. in josefina phone via as view loving, this is the one yet to attend. we want to set target. and so as i see that is throwing a spinner in the works in y'all's, finding them good people for some the changes go too far and too fast for all those the changes on the zone over to you. it's for design decision innocence. so 1st i'd say that i'm speaking for at least 50 percent of german society, and the billing is here in ox diocese to see themselves as catholics. when i say that if nothing happens now, the doors not only calling us, but

a departure could happen. what's inside of the day i, it's a the, we shouldn't let that put us on depression. and because the history of the churches 2000 years old, we have to look at how cool our route accountable from the votes of the archbishop is caught somewhere in the middle. but other than all of this call, i really deeply trust that god is guiding us. and the god spirit is here. don't say so this i'm quite sure that he will lead us to more than that gives me courage and strength and difficult situation just keeps really not only to inter those situations, but to see them as an opportunity. funds that something romika and marie leave the meeting with mixed feelings. the reality of their lives no longer fits the cause prescribed by the vatican, but who needs to give way? the charge to its members or its members to judge the, to activate, reflect on them mindset intel valid, proceed up to miss this likely one for have so little confrontational,

combative we optimistic. i think we can already see that these resolutions came about, partly because there was pressure from believer, leaving the bishops probably wouldn't have moved so far in their own. that's why it's necessary to continue fighting and pursuing this just kind of focus albums. not so. how does this been, i know the domestic, i think we've established a good new culture of debate deficient that late people and bishops are in dialogue, and the bishops realize they can no longer be assigned to each of the chats on the road. they come, i think the resolutions that we've cost um, mostly compromises, but we must not retreat behind them having us out. of course keep fighting and i think we can do a lot for our church. it's my church to the cases, to the, to some veronica and to marie, all divisive and dangerous to others. they all pray for a foam, is that it's not at all clear where these palm will lead them. next.

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