lindsay, yes, the song of a k, a tom lee said at the most dangerous time we fund way was sort of the as we say, the poster child for the the poor freshman problem and then it is said no one has ever seen a stone in the side of the superpowers, the world's most dangerous frontage, dogs, june 29. on dw america, the secretary of state, hampton, a lincoln was finally engaging in a long delayed effort to hold the slide in us china relations. the main speaking point is still tie one with a chinese determined to be unified and warning the west to stay out of the cool interests. my guest inside pay is the tie. one east foreign minister joseph works.

is they island living on borrowed time? we know that we have the ability to deal with the chinese invasion as china has stepped up, is fairly close rhetoric and it's on forces of make the secret of their invasion plans by line c. busy so how much help so, so i want to expect from washington and from europe, hasn't been promised to nuclear umbrella for lessons is government drawing from the will in you, chris has 51000000 done own could to avoid the conflict with it's john. john, good. who welcome to complex of thank you. thank you very much, dan. just 2 months ago, the chinese military completed 3 days of combat exercises of taiwan. and they told the world as forces were not ready to fight resolutely to smash any form of taiwan independence. are you living on borrowed time? yes, we are leaving under the chinese community to rate it all tied up for

a couple of years. and the exercise that you mentioned has been quite enhanced. i actually, and with the old setting, the chinese military exercises all these years, and the one in april this year was probably pretty intense in comparison to other exercises, especially the involved, any aircraft carrier, to the ease of tie one. and we had big that the was the issue, not just that i want to sell, but with other like body pop in this. is there any scenario that you can envisage in which taiwan with 23000000 people? when's a war with a country of one point? 4000000000 of the same question as being asking uh to tie one for quite a few years. uh, actually with right to prepare ourselves for the possible conflict. uh, for example, we need to strengthen our traditional military capabilities and we also need to

strengthen our symmetric have abilities ending fighting a modern war. a symmetric welfare is probably more important than the traditional for example, in the world in ukraine. many people predicted that the russians would be able to take over the ukraine within a couple of weeks, but it didn't happen like that. uh, the premiums were being able to find on holding the russian military f a. and i think their determination, their preparedness for the asset metric warfare or the international support i'm making difference in that is that lessons that we have learned. and we are trying to strengthen our depends capabilities. and the people determination for self depends, is stronger than before. in time one is also receiving more international support than before. and therefore, we know that we have the ability to deal with the chinese invasion. you do think realistically, that's your military preparations or any kind of deterrent to john or you said,

chinese lead as well. think twice before they decide to use force against taiwan and the mazda, whether it's 2025 or 2027. as you're already looking at possible dates for the invasion, taiwan simply needs to get ready. why isn't taiwan ready now? you have plenty of warning. the china is determined peacefully or forcibly to re unite you with the people's republic as they put it. why? why onto ready? now, if you look at a modern war, we don't just look at the side of the aggressor, their military capabilities and the equipment they f. if you only look at the other side, you might feel that the try not has a overwhelming power over tie. one in tiwana stands noches. but if you have a chance to look at ty, once defense capabilities, i don't think that the war can happening in that easy way for try not to take tie

one over easily. we have but lots of events, missiles in our minute. terry is also determined to defend ourselves, and i think the people also determines to preserve the freedom, it sovereignty that we have and therefore putting all these factors together, you won't be easy. we're trying to launch a war against tie one and pick, tie one over very quickly. and other than tie was preparedness, other major countries. they also deployed their military forces or pasturing to turn the chinese from launching the war against high one. if you look at the us military pauses a nearby and also the fact that japan has been bullying is military budget for the next 5 years and to prepare for a possible outcome, 2 majors against the chinese aggression in this part of the world. i think the chinese would have to worry if they start the war against high one. it's, it's, it's one thing for both sides to stage military exercises. but if the worst happens,

and war breaks out, do you believe any of a country will fight alongside you? this is a hypothetical question and we always say the law instead of the brakes. uh no hypothetical. uh yes. uh if war breaks out uh the one who bears the responsibility for chi wants defense will be tie one itself and we are determined to defend ourselves. there's no doubt about it, but for all the countries, i think the most important thing is for them to show their determination to deter the war problem happening. i think the war is going to mean disaster for a lot of countries, economically. half of the container ships of the world is saving through the power, straight area, and 90 percent of the most advanced computer chips or send me comes out. the chips are produced in taiwan and therefore it, there's going to be

a destruction to the supply chain. it will be a major impact, uphold the rest of the world economically. and i think many of the international leaders understand now, india tried to deter from detroit war from happening. and with this kinds of effort, i think the war is not an affordable, and it's not a minute at this moment. this wasn't quite the question that i asked you on basically looking to see whether you have any cost on assurances that any of a country will fight with you in the event of a chinese invasion. yes, that is the only oh yes on that is a very good question. actually i, we are trying to tell the world that the defending tie one is all on one responsibilities. so the answer is no. you do not have any cost on insurances, but any one will fight with you. that is not the way we look at it. there might be countries that might be people who want to provide taiwan would support the support

like i do. and i'd say it's has been providing to you great, give us the emulations was to fight the integration. but the fighting yourself in taiwan is all, are we supposed little t, v us has been very clear about what it might or might not do to help you. which may be of course, down to a strategic ambiguity. but it could also mean that they haven't yet decided what they've got to do if you are attacked, which do you think it is. in fact, tie one and united states have been not engaging in very close consultation and communication with each other to think about the future scenarios at the same time to prepare, tie, want the best way off how one can get prepared. for example, the kinds of weapons tie one would need and the strategy taiwan would need and the kinds of trainings kind of what would need and united states as being providing these kinds of resources or training and preparation of what type one and these

kinds of efforts are being highly appreciated and the us decision of whether you will get involved in the war or not. it's the call of the president of the united states. but for tie one, it's our responsibility to defend taiwan. are you telling me you'd simply don't have any idea of what the us would do in the event of an invasion of taiwan? well, as i say, you know, we engage in very close communications with you. what i'd say is, and the question is not up to me for the answer a, and i hope that kind one in the united states will continue to engage closely with each other. in the preparation process, mr. well, on may the 22nd, according to type a news you confirmed that being discussions with the us about whether time one would be included under the us nuclear umbrella like some other countries in the region. what was the outcome of those talks that we engage in the all kinds of

conversations with the united states and for any content of that nature, i'm not able to give any details off of the discussions plans then on this topic of whether the us would include you in the nuclear umbrella? well, thank you very much for the racing that question for the 2nd time, but the for any of the re, uh, any of the content of the discussions of that nature. i would not be able to come from at. ready point, and you con, confirm even that these discussions did take place. i should not be comfortable with me that there's all kinds of cooperation going on communication going on in between time when the major countries and in order for these cooperation is to stay in good place. i should not disclose any of the conversations. mister will. how do you understand president biden's woods in september last year, he was asked if he was winning to get involved militarily to defend taiwan. and he

replied, yes, that's the commitment we made. do you interpret that as providing you with defensive weapons under the taiwan relations act, or engaging in direct military confrontation with china? well, our understanding is that the commitment is based on the power relations that the united states as being reaffirming is commitment to type one security by providing taiwan with sufficient amount of defensive articles. what kind of one self depends . and if you look at the time on relations that it also has to be like stipulates that the united states would need to maintain sufficient capacity to repel any restore to the military threats or course and in this region. so united states commitment to tie one all to the region has being a rather obvious and the us officials come in on that is rock solid as, according to the us all peoples. and we don't dial that. united states has been

providing power was weapons. and in addition to the providing all the weapons, they also what you can gauge in service and the training of how to use the weapons . and because of these activities, i was the past relations with the united states, helping us significantly improving in the last few years. as you know, us secretary of state hines and they bring time, has just me meeting with chinese leaders farm and as the can gang warm to america, not to challenge paging over the stages of taiwan. the taiwan issue, he said, is the core of china's cool interests, the biggest in china, us relations, and the most prominent risk. what do you take away from that, that i take away from that is said, the chinese thread against taiwan is clear. and it's obvious. and it is something philosophy takes seriously, but at the same time, as i understand it, secretary blinking also stated very clearly that the united states oppose any unity

that will change of state as cool. that means the will that he stays opposing any use of force by the chinese side against tie one. and in fact, this is not the only country, not the only one leader that is being saying that are in the g 7 summit or in the us summit or in the other. uh, some important, some is uh the leaders always reaffirm the importance of use instability in the taiwan strait. and they also oppose any human data with change of status quote in this part of the world and somebody even the post the use of force. and lately, there's also a new language coming out of europe. they're saying that the piece instability of the power straight is an integral part of the global security and prosperity. and with all of this, i'm sure the international caution against the chinese use supports or trying to edit, tie one solution. and we hope the international community can continue to pay attention

to the chinese motivation. they'll be using force against high one. so you have strong woods from the international community. strong was from the west or enough to to, to china. there were plenty of strong woods directed by the email i put in before he invited you crate on the wall was a head any way. so it was a strong was maybe a slight to develop to diplomacy, a slightly exaggerated in diplomacy these days that is available. cool. very good question. in fact, other than strong wars, we have also seen countries taking concrete actions in the showing that they have the result of the pieces to build the over this region of united states, japan, u, k, canada, etc. they have all be engaging in the very periodic uh, freedom of mitigation operations in these area. and many of those that survey ship sale through the pipe was straight. and these kinds of actions are just the

extremes in packing up their stores. and i believe that all those countries that i mentioned have a stake in the piece disability over the power straight area. and they are taking concrete actions to pack up their records. do you not worry that by seeking washington's help, your not caught up in the rock bottom relationship between the us and china and the badging may be about to right. change out pressure on you some k to send a signal to washington. i guess the question is on you endanger, becoming a pawn to be played by both sides. that is also a question. ask frequently in taiwan. in fact, some people here in taiwan argue that the work comfortably is between the united states and china. and therefore, taiwan should thoughts the bullets from these 2 giants and we use stay neutral. but i think the real situation doesn't happen that way. the real situation is that high

one has been pressing by china. and the united states is trying to provide support to taiwan. so these are the 2 constants and we are leading under these 2 constants . and therefore a very important thing is what i want to continue to consolidate. it's the relations with the united states on the one hand and trying to prevent war from happening on the other hand. and in our relations with china, i can show you that the current government has been recognized international the for being responsible player. we want to maintain the peace disability in this area by maintaining the state is cool. it is all believe that the state is close to the best interest of all parties concerned. and i think this is also the position held by the united states, canada, u. k. and major european countries, and we will continue all of these path to prevent china from thinking that they can take, tie one over quickly and tie one will not serve as

a provider. but at the same time, we will not budge to the chinese pressure. you've talked about asking your full support. um, you said in prob last week in order for taiwan to stay strong and resilience and have the courage to continue the policy of maintaining the stages, quote. we do need support from european friends that coverage that you spoke about is a waiting list of what i think the people here in tie was. feel that the support coming from europe coming from multimedia rick are coming from japan and australia and that kind of support make tie one people feel that we, i'm not a little even facing the military course, even from the chinese side. you told me exactly his moral support is that you are talking about moral support, more support. i think the more support is very strong. and if you look at the language is coupled with some of the concrete actions that i mentioned before. i

think the people feel very confident that the international support is going to come to tie one and impact it's coming to the high one, especially with the big room that have all the companionship to the saving through what content of ships are saving through the taiwan strait and 90 percent of the most of bins, sidney comes out the trips up producing tie one i'm sure the international community will come to the realization that they will be in have to if the war is not stopped in other than that, we are also seeing many other countries taking more actions, do you think the west has been tough enough on china or you have in the past, the peer to blame europe in the us for not resisting home problems, new security law, and the trashing of human rights and civil liberties. but that came with that, what crystal west of done about hong kong and what happened, what the chinese introduced a. well, hong kong is a true tragedy. it happened right before our eyes got the national security law was

impose on this place where people used to enjoy freedom and openness and all of a sudden all those freedom as being taken away by the chinese government. and we did not see this as an isolate case. we as also that even 2014 over at crime. yeah . and the west and reaction to russia in 2014 was not strong enough. and i believe that it has a direct or indirect implication for the war to take place in ukraine and him use a shot if we are not able to take up concrete actions against the chinese way of doing things over hong kong. i'm sure the chinese will be encouraged to do more it in the other parts of the world in this is especially in this region. if you look at the chinese actions in the east try to see that has already gotten in japan during those. and if you look at the south, china sea is more of a flash point than the power straight. and therefore,

i think the international community needs to look at the chinese expansion is, or is imposition of voltage here in ism, on this part of the world in a more serious way. and we need to take concrete actions intending china that no, they cannot expand their impulses in this part of the world at the cost of democracy's use site events to prevail in this crisis. with china, unity is all only pop forward. but in a speech in march, your own president acknowledge serious political divisions among your people. she told the hudson institute the taiwan was split and hadn't so far decided whether it went through the relationship with china or prefer to be on its own. there isn't much time for me to i want to make up his mind on that issue. is that why if you look at the public opinion surveys here in try one, actually we see a consensus. the consensus here in taiwan is that we don't want to be ruled by

china. the consensus here in taiwan is that we don't want to accept the one country to says the model and putting tie one as a part of china or taiwan to sick and hong kong. the consensus here in taiwan is that we want to maintain the status, quote, the state of school, the taiwan, is that how one people is running, tie one itself. the tie one is the freedom is a free and democratic country. so maintaining the state as cool. it's already a consensus here in taiwan. so if you are backing the consensus, the way you say, why is your policy you had mentioned hemorrhaging support in the way it is? you did very badly and the last is local elections. you 195 out of 21 seats according to polling by the time when he's public opinion foundation. more than half a voters would not support either your party or the other major parties requirement time in the presidential elections early next year. people are clearly to solutions with you and your major opposition. that's down to find your leadership, isn't it?

to. uh, no, i disagree. uh when we do the public opinion surveys. uh, we try to find out what the people here think uh for your information. there's a public opinion survey conducted by similar organizations here in tie one, asking people what they feel the most successful area of public policy and boarding relations happen to be the most successful. and indeed with the foreign countries are trying to included. i think we have adopted it right policy to maintain the status cool on the one hand in to try and maintain peace and stability in this area and to reach out to more countries. so that's how one has more backing from the international community. i think this is the right approach and this is their approach supported by the public and of course taiwan. and so if you mock, we'll see people are afraid to think that the one political party is better than another. and we need to allow the people to come cedar,

who is the best or which political parties the best for the countries future. in right now, even though this, that the bait, there's different kinds of supporting. but it's the natural way all pay expression here in taiwan. and if you look at the post, it's a high consistency in some of the candidate seem to be in the forefront against others. and the kind of a tendency seem to be very consistent. very briefly, mr. why not try a little harder to talk to china? you'll presidents have said she's open to dialogue with badging without pre conditions. but even people in your own policy, the democratic progressive policy don't think you've tried hard enough. a founding member hung to chime said recently, we have such a solid taiwan identity now we should be confident enough to engage in some exchanges. so why don't you engage like performing timeframes to uh, we have scribes. uh, but the situation is that china has been imposing conditions,

anti one the conditions, the conditions of being rebuilt by a she's been paying on january 2nd, 2019 and with that kind of conditions, i don't think any sensible leader in ty one would or should accept those preconditions, those preconditions we crude, the pay once you accept itself as part of the p r c. i want you to accept one country to system model. i want you to have said nothing but unification with china . and these is something that the people here in tie one do not want to accept. and therefore even when they came, t is back into power. i just don't think that they can or they should accept those preconditions. once we accept those pre conditions, i want becomes another home called in by that time it will be too late for us to limit if china imposes another initial security last i want. so if well does come

with you hand on hot, be able to say that you did everything possible to prevent it that we have trying tried very hard. on the one hand, our approach is to maintain the status call and trying to keep the peace and stability over the taiwan strait and have an open institute to invite the chinese for negotiations. and on the other hand, we also strengthening our defense capabilities to prevent china from thinking that they can take, tie one over easily. and at the same time, we are engaging within the natural community so that they can support, tie one more and they can help strengthen. i was defense capability, say with the old is we are trying to deter war from happening and it's not just high one. we have liked by the populace, they understand the cost for the world if the war is to break out and we all wind

what we can to prevent war from happening. what is the world joseph low? thank you very much for being on conflict. so thank you. well, thank you very much, mr. sebastian. the,

the, the, to the point. strong, clear position. international perspective, the china does not change its position. new crane law on 5 on. and yet, china is trying to win friends. can mutual trust via stablish,

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