[000:00:00;00] so you're watching dw news, a quick reminder now at the top story that we're following for you, the us signals that it could send the cluster munitions to ukraine. the white house officials say that the decision is under active consideration as part of a weapons, a package. next it is doc fell in with a story about the world's most dangerous arms dealer. stay with us if you've had for that. i'm staring at lee and berlin the it's all just practice or is that the nation race in brooklyn, with a wayne 7 months before russia attacked your crane of film team documents daily life in the town?

how are the people of the growing tension currently go in and be inside. starts joining 8 on dw, the they're all on the f, b i's most wanted list murderous, human traffickers, millionaire fraudsters, drug lords, terrorists. and this man. he's a threat to world peace and a key figure in the struggle between super powers. his name is lee some way, but he also calls himself kara lee and uses several other aliases.

the, the, the, the c, i a massage, the german b, n. d, and others by agencies have been pursuing him for decades. they picked up the trail of a serial offender shipping material for the construction of ballistic missiles to iran in breach of 2006 un security council sanctions on tay wrong. the u. s. government then launched a response of unprecedented scale in the case of an arms dealer. the us announced a $5000000.00 bounty for information leading to his arrest. much like drug floored, l, troppo or salma, been loved,

and after his attacks on to us embassies the the next day the chinese government issued its 1st public statement on the carl lee case, which we found the ginger. sundry may fall, e u i, u r. c. for nissan, they told me that she has a good shift on being there when they're gonna move on the one to as well to even to, to, to, to the staging and washington started openly trading blows. the see are very clear about the activity that this individual has undertaken, and there's threats to international stability and security. and that's why we were very clear from the state departments that we would offer a reward for information about his whereabouts that could bring him to justice. if he's in china, what's the needs to this? well, he does,

he hasn't really said he's the fugitive right now. uh so i'm not to speculate on where he may and then suddenly a website appeared online about lee fun way, alias carl lee. the administrators said their aim was to spread information about him. the page included drawings of carly space, photo montages, and articles in english, chinese and arabic, about his a legit complicity and the suffering of thousands of children in the many civil war where iranian missiles are being deployed and about arms deals. but who is responsible for the website? it's the course project, right. the administrators for evidently students a lecturer gave them the idea. i can't imagine there's too many classes out there

that are teaching carl lee. this isn't a bizarre sort of topic. little as it, you know, little kind of out there. and i feel like myself and my colleague probably know all the people that are teaching on carly and they have, they have no idea what this, you know, who is created the site the . i'm just stein, i've been covering national security issues for about 40 years now. and that followed my own service in the army is an army intelligence case officer, where i began to get insights and to have their clandestine mentality worked. and that served me well over the years i was, i was news week for many years and washing bose and now in my semi retirement i am the founding editor and chief of spite. talk

a website that covers intelligence issues. i think i 1st heard about them in around early 2015. i began to hear of sanctions being applied to this fellow who we called carl lee, or at least one way to and again looking into it. and i found that the federal officials were more than happy to brief me and let me know what was going on. and i wrote a major story for news. we the title of his article, how china helped iran go nuclear. it shared a number of details from intelligence agency sources. he liked luxury cars, but i, we saw him also that he was sort of a stay at home guy. he didn't go far from dalia the we didn't learn a lot more about him except that we did have

a stringer go there and do some reporting on him to locate his offices in this home . so we knew it was there, we knew he existed and but we couldn't gather any more information on it. the name came, the trump administration, i'm angry with china is making $500000000.00 a year and stuck in our jobs and sucking our money out of our country. and we don't do anything about it. just trump, administration was on a campaign to blame china for everything. and uh, as part of that, uh, some way out officials summoned me to come down to the white house and discuss the case, i believe one way. and that was in 2018. the,

as certainly the trump white house, a well knew my feelings about is foreign policy, which were negative. and all, i often had chesty exchanges with the white house folks, people, when i called them for a comment on something. so that they reached out to me to talk about this case and invite me down to the white house or the adjacent old executive office building to talk with was quite unusual. and i mean, i was very amused by that. but we are on the same page with that issue. we live one way. while the white house launched a car, a lead or offensive, the threat posed by iranian miss aisles was thrust into sharp focus the in late 2017. trump's u. n. and basset are brief, the media standing in front of the wreckage of

a ballistic miss style fired on saudi arabia by iran allies in yemen. the missiles intended target was a civilian airport in re a through which tens of thousands of passengers travel each day. just imagine if this missile had been launched at dulles airport for j. s. k, or the airports in parents, london, or berlin. that's what we're talking about here. that's what a ran is actively supported on you. initially many wondered whether the u. s. was once again telling the same old story just as they had done before, the iraq war, re, from the presenting a legit evidence of saddam hussein's w m. d program. the state department working in the department. but the experts were certainly coming information. you locate any other cuz on consumer so, and this configuration was precisely what we knew from around the or what around very proudly and build a few years ago and several videos and presentation furnished. and one of the

pieces of wreckage betrayed some information. the logo of a certain iranian arms company, one of karl lee's most important clients. the attack on we are marked at the start of a whole series of strikes, which continue to this day. we see them using those missiles. we've seen them using them in a rock. we've seen them using them in saudi arabia, in syria, where they've had significant impact. we see also iran for liberating these missiles across the region. so for that samples, lovelace has belies the most popular proxy, most popular customer of iranian muscles, but also now difficulties in yemen have been using to a really significant extent, iranian missiles. and when you run into us as close to, or iranian missiles, or a significant factor,

the one attack that stood out in recent years was the running attack on the rocky bases hosting us forces. in january 2020 iran had launched a dozen missiles targeting these sites. it was extremely dangerous. it did result in over a 100 dramatic brain injuries among us service members had this right, resulted in the us fatalities. we would have had seen a much more significant u. s response than really we had seen in past years. and i don't know how far the escalation spiral would go down. one thing is certain without karl leaves help, it runs ballistic missile program wouldn't be where it is today. but what's the chinese government same? the chance of finding an answer is highest outside of china. the china doesn't matter, of course, providing any missile related materials or components to arrive. so it's

a little bit hard to have hard evidence here in my own suspicion is that they find themselves to have something of a coincidence of interest in that trade. carl lees businesses aligned with cheating, pain strategy. the views as nation is the 2nd remaining superpower soon to strip the us economically. and militarily, chinese strategists believe a strong iran would benefit china in this regard. to complicate us and started country in the middle east, perhaps encouraged western governments to become more distracted by middle eastern problems and less worried about what might be happening at the end of pacific that china might be behind. so that's very convenient for them. for example, in case china decides to carry out its threats one day if military maneuvers turn into war and the people's liberation army launch is an invasion of taiwan

the. but just where is the man who has become a key figure in the struggle of the super powers of the past years and decades. the reporter team in china is on its way to one of the most crucial companies in carl leaves network. the dial in colorado industry, the, the business is registered to this building, the spot. it wasn't an office trust issue, there was just a regular chinese compound israel compound. the company really does exist. there's documented evidence of its exports. it even won a court case against a supplier who was in breach of contract but the doors opened by an old woman holding

a nice she's been shopping vegetables. that's where the files are was in here. is that to the hit on john when we asked the woman where she came from boxes and she said, hey, long john didn't put. and when we asked which region exactly, and mentioned in the name of joe how you doing? i'm sure she said yes. is that that's precisely where she came from. one of the some of cha hi. yeah. the small agricultural township where carl lee is thought to have spent his childhood more than a 1000 kilometers from dahlia. does the shore. now that's a very is very remarkable situation. is to find someone in another province that comes from precisely this place with around 10000 inhabitants stopped. how is she connected to carl lee? did she just let him use her address? maybe she's known him since he was a child from their homeland in the far north. i sent off call you back when we asked about carl lee for response was that she didn't know how to contact it to you and then relatively quickly she referred to her age,

telling us she was over 80 boss. and then it was our job to find it to feed, to this day. this apartment here is the official h q of dial in colorado industry. the, at least that's what it says in the chinese companies registered in this story, every answer leads to even more mysteries. such as the question of who is behind a website, who is leaf on way? the one thing we do know, the administrators don't want anyone to know who they are. they've opted for an anonymous domain registration. the content of the site is increasingly strange and elaborate the, the message of this comic is the unscrupulous and profit hungry arms dealer. carl

lee has nothing to fear from investigators and prosecutors because he can always hide behind the chinese state the it's incredible, right? anything we provide the same kind of thing done with the product either either. i mean it looks fairly sophisticated while so dollars seems like someone has put some resources into this and i get a sense reading it as well. and having seen various chinese comics that the chinese government has used to talk to talk to people about national security issues. and in china it looks like someone has seen those. and so okay, this maybe is a good way to talk to a chinese audience. and then suddenly, a possible lead to the website creators does crop up on this facebook profile. the owner of the profile seems to be studying international security in germany and admit that the who is leaf on way website is there. they are evidently studying and

titled their in any case they like to many sites connected to the university. they're entitled their student life. the strange thing is at heidelberg university. no one's heard of a student called young thing. both nevermind and entered at site or study project about a chinese arms dealer. now their relevant professors nor student representatives the through our analysis of bank records in our analysis of emails. we saw that he was doing a lot of business in yours. we did see that a lot of those payments cleared through frankfurt and so we decided that we would

go try to encourage the germans to take an action similar to what we had done. so we went over to germany. we had put together a lot, a ga, ca, of the year co payments that we had knowledge of. so we were showing the originating bank, the parties, the dates, and the banks that were processing the payments through europe. and specifically, the german banks that were clearing the payments and we went over to bon and we met with a woman of federal prosecutor in charge of sanctions enforcement in germany. and we met with a team of investigators from the federal police. and we, we presented our information to them. the, we had a good meeting, they asked the right questions. they were clearly thinking about it. and then the

sort of team of police investigators took us out for dinner and beers. we had a nice german dinner. we had everything, as i recall, brought worse bunch of beers and then uh, you know, and then they excused themselves and i think my colleagues nice stayed out a little bit longer as we like from our perspective. nothing ever came of it. there was never sort of a similar prosecution of carl lee that, that never, that never happened. there's one more lead on the ominous website to an arrow, the facebook group linked to the site, the it's administrators name corinne. most of it looks like they are also studying in germany and living in berlin. strikingly, the profile is structured precisely like that of john's and bore both have

non descript profile images with glasses and a book. and both were 1st active on facebook within 2 days of each other or something else they have in common. they're both on traceable. these are parents, students aren't registered with authorities in berlin or hide all there. it says though they don't really exist at all the fact that these people are ghosts and basically don't exist, would fit with the theory of this being run by a, by state. it leads us to think that, you know, perhaps this is a, you know, a government operation may, might, may be a government operation to um, to try that sort of get the word out about carly, especially in, in the space that spend a lot on intelligence and have you know many thousands of people work in this area

or is quite possible someone in the office somewhere is job is to run these kinds of operations in a baby against call a but it was so the ghost of the knock, the traffic goes on. other non states roads as well. so the side could be the work of spike agency personnel is quite possible the people making those videos and they use something about him and have a good sense of how he might react to something like that. um, you know, is obviously a very targeted thing to do in spies, peak information operations or i o, we also sort of maybe also name and shame sort of component. yeah. maybe get under his skin a little bit. so the idea of, uh, your heard of like taking the wire. right? so, um, you know, maybe sort of doing something to cause reaction. right,

that you can perhaps monitor better or enhance your own information by doing that just to sort of thing to okay. maybe government taxpayer is dollars somewhere or going into the making of is forcing things videos um, you know, is, is rich, something strange to see of all the possibilities to nation. stand out for be the countries that seem to have had the biggest interest in cali. um, so that that would be the us who probably israel israel would be the most plausible. the nation's intelligence services are known for unconventional cyber operations. and no country faces a greater threat from iranian ms aisles. a threat that's continued to grow over recent years. also because of the activities of carl lee, this is particularly evident in the north, in the golan heights. israel captured this territory from syria in 1967 and as

occupied it ever since. the rocky plateau is of strategic importance for israel to monitor one of their bitterest enemies, hezbollah, which holds positions to the north of here in lebanon. the armies spokesperson, jonathan con, reduce was stationed here for a long time. what do you see behind us is really think of it as a highway as a smuggling highway for is on by which is on transfers. nissans components, infrastructure machinery to produce or to convert all of that is transported from you on your luck via syria and the very areas that you can see close to the syrian lebanese board for years now, iran has been trying to supply it's has below allies, 11 on with precision miss tiles,

based on what we know carl lees businesses have been instrumental in the development of these very same projectiles for kids. but i will try to use their precision guided me. so as for the most sense, steven high value targets, like our port or airport government associated these hazardous materials. the entire nation became aware of the existential nature of this threat in connection with the port city of haifa, where thousands of tons of ammonia were stored. if the chemical were to be released somehow that would potentially risk hundreds of thousands of lives, something the leader of hezbollah knew only too well for us on the fall, i said without any shame. yes, i will aim for the ammonium container in haifa. i will try to strike it then i will try to kill as many civilians as possible all the time. so i will come in and the i'm on the try for that, the zip them but the zip code. so that's the meaning of the economy. that's where

it's dealing with the the ammonia that in haifa was emptied, following this thread from the leader of hezbollah. but there are other chemical plants and israel that could be a target for iranian precision. guided miss science also because for years carl least applied navigation instruments to t. ron and all western spy agencies could do with look on power. leslie from the sidelines. the officials, i remember very angry, maybe that was just a trump motif because they were always angry about china blaming china for this and that they were on a campaign against china. so i wrote the story in 2019 jeff stein published an article in newsweek on new donald trump sanctions against carl lee and on the authorities. cold fury with the chinese government. they said to me,

this is just to start these, these sanctions. we're going to do more. we're going to really teach china a lesson with way far away. at about the same time, a member of the trump administration began denouncing lee phone way alias carl lee and china is government. on twitter. it was the assistant secretary of state at the time. christopher, for the lease, on the way, was for a long time the perhaps the most notorious of the proliferation traffickers in china and nothing ultimately was done and continued to be a problem for a very long time. when i was in government, we stepped up that pressure on china trying to get them to pay more attention to it . the trump administration started ramping up the pressure on both china and iran at the same time. the latter country was the responsibility of brian hook, a hard liner and close presidential confidant. he was us special

representative for iran at the time. the iranian regime has been chanting death to america. iran has been very successful edits mission to try to terrorize the middle east. it is a corrupt religious mafia that has really impoverished its own people in order to fund an ideology that the export around the world. what is different about this administration's approach is that we are putting in place a pressure campaign that doesn't have any historic precedent. but strangely, brian hawk remained type let's do for the man who was probably the most crucial foreign supplier to the iranian miss style program. i didn't have anything any time in entirely. i'm going to mention it done any new information to share with you on that. it was mid 2019. when all of a sudden silence fell over washington. well,

we haven't heard anything. so what's going on? the assistant secretary of state christopher ford also suddenly stopped commenting on carl lee. we decided to stop tweeting that's about all i can say. okay. okay, that's not helpful. i understand. the silence was deafening. as i say it was. it's a mystery to me, the in game i, you know, trapped you shame officials a couple of years later never was a while and causing yeah. what's going on when they're not talking about

the visuals. are radiation to talk about them and all, or they have memory loss. they suddenly get, remember, i have to remind them, you know, currently the chinese. so they've got so they're not talking about carl economy may not even be on their mind at all. and if you use on their mind, they're not making it public what they're doing. and then the website who is really find way when offline, the, what's happened to carl lee on the investigative trail in china, the team travels northwards from dalliance. it's thought that carl lees graphite factory is located 100 kilometers from the port town. this, according to information on earth, by researchers at king's college in london. the factory that distinguishes carl lee from many others in his particular line of work, the one that makes them both

a trader and the manufacturer. welcome reads the word on the chimney and the name of the company, sino texas carbon. the company has existed since 2006 a quarter of the shares belong to carl lee and the rest belonged to his younger brother, lee fond uh, gift card, one naturalist. the question was, of course it isn't an industrial ruined down fuss. is there anything left of it for him on our graphite products still being actively produced out there? and i have a question that can only be answered in close quarters. the single board in the, at this, when you approached the building this to you, it almost feels like an industrial ruling was good for the complex where you get the sense, but nothing's happening there anymore. and then you spot areas with the latest surveillance technology loads of cameras, watch them, anyone approaching the side, the factories simply clinton. the investigation could be brought to an abrupt end at any moment. but instead, the opposite happens. collectively,

gland reimbursed. the dean, you can easily enter the plant grounds. the gates are open, find interesting way. there was no one there to speak to at the time time between one had dish question cutting on the side of a factory owned by one of the world's most wanted men. and indeed, there are tons of graphite here. the material so urgently needed by iranian miss aisle engineers and supplied to them in huge volumes by carl lee split wanted to call them to so when needed, seems dilapidated. and what is not the case that there is no longer anything there is the production is clearly going on in one section of the industrial cycle. so the disease, pansy does that. i think if you're at least of,

of considering this is supposed to be the most dangerous arms dealer in the world, the f b, i has put a $5000000.00 bounty on this man on. and suddenly you arrive at what's supposed to be the hub of his entire empire and you think, wow, so this is the most dangerous guy going to you. and here it looks like we're out in the middle of nowhere. and just for that, and you do start to wonder, does all this really past us obviously is which is um the 2 men still have 2 cards up their sleeve to telephone numbers from carl lees closest circle. so as not to jeopardize the filming, they make the calls after the factory visit the font, the is the fun, the fun way. nissan dawn was the younger brother of the fun way. yeah, that was really quite a remarkable telephone call because he just confirmed many details forest. he said, yes, they did business with you around in the past 100, but that they no longer do with the we have taken the tool

a 2nd. think myself or deal with it, the factory is still active and the products are still being manufactured. they're hard to have stayed good as the deed. so he confirmed what we saw on the site and said that unfortunately, we wouldn't be able to meet his brother who would a lot on this type of credit. and then we call the shots the from 24. there had been speculation primarily in the king's college research report up here. this could lead us to the older brother of the family wants us to state the familiar design, clinton street. when we asked them about leaf i'm way as early as carl watkins ocoee. so i just couldn't reach them himself at the lowest price and kind of where is karl lee? and why is no one in washington talking about him anymore? at the beginning of the binding ministration,

i need some general inquiries about carl lee. um and 0 ship not silence in the you know, i'm a former intelligence case office. i've been covering this the high and other in down the 3 years. so i wonder, well, maybe we don't really fun way. maybe he's our guy now. carl lee, a double agent betraying his own business partners to the enemy. it's a bold theory, but there certainly have been such cases in the past. i mean, i have no evidence of that whatsoever, but that's the way my mind works. i mean, i couldn't find any other logical explanation why the us was suddenly go silent about the fun way. but you wouldn't have a very long life in china. i mean, c, a is operations in china, from public reporting. we know

a bit of disaster. there's security lapses allowed dozens of c i a sources in, in china to be rolled up and thrown in jail or executed. so the and then a new lead appears online for 31 minutes. in the chinese edition of look a pedia in the article on lee fun way. the, the version history reads on the 8th of january at 2021. at 6 58 am a novice user added the following passage. the in april 2019 leap on way was detained by the police on suspicion of smuggling goods

and articles banned from import and export by the state. in late 2020 lee was held in pre trial detention in the city of dalliance at 7 29 am the passage was removed by the same user. the reason provided that the information had not come from a reliable source. is that the answer that he's in prison, but then why is the f b i still trying to track him down with a 5000000 dollar bounty. there's still one address to check out the last on the list. the headquarters of a company, 60 percent of which is still owned by carl lee personally, diesel in this garbage field comes out. oh, there's

a company that's still active to monday. talk to 6. it's called deleon. trust industry and has made millions in sales, official customs data show that components for nuclear reactors have been exported from here. i spit out on the new top. let me 1st ring the bell. no one came to the door and nobody so we checked with the house next door to make sure we got the right address here that i see. and they said that yes, yes, that's correct. but we should go around the back is the neighbor might be in the garden, but it couldn't a ventured off costs. and so i could it be right here. the answer to everyone's questions the, the account. we went around the back and asked about carl lee clark called me, you were looking for a man named leaf on the way. do you know him?

i may have heard of steinway. isn't you in prison? where what do you mean he's in prison? is he in trouble? the yes, he was dealed for a few things. you know what i mean? i think he's in prison. the done fact and suddenly he asked wine. we want to do know it and a short time later, like conversation with him for those are meeting for by the the monday the guns from my position to address and visiting was suppose at the office addresses of car, at least companies in volume. you get a sense that everything's totally off here. up to me. yeah. because of this. yes. these are private address and the rest of these people are private individuals? pensioner yeah. yeah. none of them are running any business use in it this year and . and the other kind of film, they probably have no idea exactly what you're getting done in their name. say of

our sean is gone, it should be some bhaskar. now, in the non daughter states that it sounds like the perfect cover, a defensive shield of the unsuspecting a labyrinth. that's wall is up. anyone trying to get near to leaf on way to carl lee, to patrick david or charles to sunny by or song the high whatever he calls himself . but could the neighbor still be right? that the 50 year old is now in jail because after 2 decades the chinese government took them out of commission. the 8th, any one would know that it's christopher for the senior official who suddenly stopped condemning carl lee and the chinese government on twitter was one of the

reason that he might have been interested at that point in time that your stuff treated as i say, i'm not positioned to talk about any specifics with respect to carly. christopher ford doesn't give a specific answer because recent developments in the car, a lease saga are classified. but his words do ended something. i always sort of suspected, as we do attention to carly, they were lucky, they would actually stop some of the network have if we were less lucky you, they might still do something to him in a way that would under cut our criticism and allow them to say that this is not a problem and have us be unable to contradict them. in the past, the us government would often secure concessions from badging whenever the 2 nations discussed trade. and indeed, during the period in question chinese head of state change in ping called on donald trump, to avert the imposition of new heavy goods terrace. badging did make some concessions

at the time with indications that the rest of leaf on way might have been one of them. but even if that's true, has the problem been solved? is the world a slightly safer place for a long, long time we fund way was sort of the as we say, the poster child for the, the proliferation problem. but i should say the least on the way were hit by a media ride tomorrow. the illustration problem with not evaporate, these are fairly well established institutions that appear to have some degree of official, at least protection, and perhaps permission to do this. it's thought his network continues to be active with or without him. the place is a very fundamental carrier, and this is something that we may hear about laser or you, you may have, may never hear about it. you know,

even when the all kaiser attendance in 3040 years time, this is kind of just a typical a. carl, the story right, is just, it's kind of more strange, weird this day after day. a last ditch attempt. another call to the younger brothers number. where is carl lee? the number you have dialed is not in service. how? boy, that'd be

a y e t t. the number you have dialed is not in service the, the, the entered the conflict. so how wrong did you have any promotion really go in his ladder authorizing my guess is to be done complet. soon as russian investigative journalist and security services expert, andrea, so that's

a lot is that and to our website tracks the russian intelligence center, how long can you hold on to power? the 13 d, w to the point clear position. international perspectives in the face of turmoil in russia, neighboring rooms is playing and increasingly active role, nuclear weapons, and wagner in bella, ruth, to crane and nato. that's our topic on to the point. to detroit, the t w, the

some hot tips for your bucket list, the magic corner chat, hot spot and some great culture of the board us to boat w travel off we go the this is the, the new slide from ballot. the us might send cluster munitions to ukraine. whitehouse official say that decision is on the active consideration as possible. a width insights packed box cluster. i mean this is brandon many countries on to win