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tv   The Day  Deutsche Welle  July 11, 2023 7:02am-7:31am CEST

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the, the what does more of aggression food med hope to devise nato? what do you got within the lines that grew closer, unexpended? but nato's annual sum into unity is once again put to the test ukraine. ones the gathering in vilnius to show that it's already a de facto member, but the road to actual membership is promising to be a bumpy one. of some member states. still unwilling to lay out a definitive plan for the war torn country succession. one thing nato countries seem to agree on is that you crane will only be able to join once the finding has stopped. a new crane is pushing hard to end the war, but their counter offensive is only slowly gaining traction to all those wondering what's taking. so long, they have a clear message, give us the right weapons and that victory will come sooner. i'm the confirmation berlin, and this is the day the
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while i was agreeing to create the will become a member of the lines. ukraine should be joining nato as soon as conditions allow the most urgent task. now is to ensure that your crane and prevent your such a sovereign an independent nation in the, in your, your top, the president. so once you bought the counter offensive, in some ways it's, it's, it's not going as, as best as he would like. the whole of us. we want to do it faster unless ukraine prevents. then there is no membership, be sure to be discuss, that'll also on the day a green light to sweeten joining nato secretary general and stilton burke says, turkeys presidents now backs the move is completing sweden's succession. tonight though, is uninstalled except that button that fits the security of all nato allies. at
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this critical time, it makes us all stronger, unsafe bridge. walk into the show, your grains president's got an invitation to join the nato summit sped. will he also get an invitation to join the alliance, ukraine's prospect of becoming a needle member or the very top of the agenda as leaders gather this week? in lithuania, many allies have already said, few crane should join after the war is one that is a new cranes. leadership has called for patience as it pushes on with his counter offensive against a dog in russian front. he hasn't been able to announce any major battlefield victory since the beginning a month ago, but says every square kilometer is worth fighting for the ukraine launched at the spring offensive in june after months of anticipation. but so far gains have been modest, even president below them here is a lensky,
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has acknowledged that the counter offensive has been slower than many had hoped. this was the most. everything is easy. there are some difficulties because 1st of all, all on his mind that we would like to be making bigger gains. that's smaller than what we have on these case. a look at ukraine's geography helps to explain why. for months the front line has been largely unchanged. it's thought ukrainian forces would try to push through russian lines in the south and east. one of the areas that has seen heavy fighting is around the southern town of or a cave. as satellite imagery show, the land is mostly patchwork fields. and those fields are flat on which poses specific risks for ukrainian forces trying to retake the land. it means having to cross open fields which have been heavily mind and which are exposed to a fire from the air,
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as well as from russian troops hiding behind the tree lines. and beyond those open fields, ukrainians are encountering elaborate manmade trench defenses that the russian forces had months to build. the defenders also had time to put up so called dragon's teeth to stop tanks. then there's the learning curve of in military experts, a russia has picked up from its mistakes earlier in the war and as adjusted its tactics to the conditions on the battlefield. sto, analysts say, ukraine's counter offensive is capable of making progress despite the unforgiving terrain. but it will take time although not lisco is a farmer, ukrainian m p and now of global affairs analysts. you joins us tonight from london . lift go. good to have you on the so now your not only very interested in this counter offensive because your ukrainian, your own brother is fighting on the front line. so if it's okay, i'd like to ask you how he's doing and what you're hearing from him. a good evening
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. nicole. thank you for having me. my brother is indeed fighting in the east at the moment. he's in the northeast of ukraine on the mon axis. he was moved there from the southern district around the area where his fault this year as well. because he was part of the celebration campaign of hon, give region last year. and so he was the 1st one to go into his room and the mom, and there were reports that russians were building up troops on the north and access again. so he got there and indeed hearing your reports about the comforter offensive, perhaps it is now going as fast as everyone expected, including the soldiers on the front line because they are frankly not seeing the reinvigoration of the armament and of the artillery and ammunition supply. so with this counter offensive have moved more quickly if the west had been quicker to supply more effective weaponry. as absolutely there were, of course too impediments to the prompt and effective comforter of science. that
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when you print side one, we had a very bad spring. so the weather conditions would simply not allow for the heavy artillery to move through the terrain of ukraine. but secondly, of course, found postponement of weapons supplied the constant deliberations on um, artillery supplies. the tanks were seen many conversations happening there. the long range weapons, especially, and now to find 2 jobs that ukraine's so desperately needs. all of those postponements, gave russia a chance to a built out their own troops and supplies of weapons and be of course $4.00 to $5.00. we're now seeing 3 to 4 lines of fords, if occasions and my names of their tire trade up to 30 kilometers into they. they occupied land. so it, it is indeed very hard for soldiers to proceed. and because the human lives is the most important passive that ukraine has, we are not treating the soldiers as
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a kind and folder, similar to provide russians to our we're trying to, to preserve life. and that's why the country offensive is moving slower than perhaps is expected. yeah, criticism of the slow advancement of troops doesn't go unnoticed by ukrainian leadership, though. i want to play a short extra from a video released by the ukranian defense ministry and then get back to you. so the . c the so there we have ukraine's military leadership basically saying to you,
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this is all abstract. we're out here doing the finding and we know very well what we're doing now is you yourself live in the u. k. what's the most striking difference you see between how this counter offensive is perceived by outside years and how ukrainians see it? i think is just 2 different realities. it's very difficult to imagine the country of war and being able to not just be in the trenches and expires on the front line, but live in the country that is actively fighting or having someone who's risks are had lot lines are pressed every day. so, so the reality is indeed quite different. i, by no means, can judge the people not understanding the full scale of it. but i think it's important for um, people in, in countries like the u. k or germany to understand that it is indeed not the hollywood movie or blockbuster, it takes effort. it takes dedication and it takes great sacrifice,
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which are translated into human lines. mm hm. there is a lot of support and sympathy for ukraine around the world. are you worried at all the, the use of cluster munitions could damage that political capital and see ukraine and his biggest ally in washington seed at least some of the moral high ground. and this conflict of the cluster, munitions provisioned by the united states to ukraine has caused some disarray within perhaps the nato alliance. because some countries, most of the nato countries have signed a doubling convention at the barons. most countries in the world works uh yes, but the united states and russia have not. and certainly russia has been using custom munitions on the tire tree of ukraine for a year and a half of the war. now we seem to damage and repercussions of, of them using those weapons. my brother has come under fire of cluster munitions too. and they are quite this just reference, but there is
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a star difference between how russia is using them and how ukraine would use them. because they were targeting civilian areas, they were targeting people with that were living in villages and towns that were not on the phone line, whereas ukrainians are now going to liberate occupied territories and fighting that immediate front line with russians. and of course, if we're talking about the leftovers, the unexploded munitions from, from the cluster bones, it is going to be ukraine's job. and we are dedicated to that, to clear out whatever residue of weapons we have on all land. and that will include all the mines that are left behind by russians, because if you think about it for a 2nd, is ukraine's mine tired street is the size of the united kingdom. it's the most heavily mind church in the world. yeah, we do have to be careful using the conditional here because ukraine would not use
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cluster munitions. there are already reports by human rights watch, for example, that have documented extensive views on ukrainian and on the ukrainian side as well . but i do want to move on because nato leaders start their annual meeting in vilnius tomorrow. what is your cream me from? not summit. and what do you realistically believe is going to get to your crime? needs an invitation into valence. i think it's as simple as that. it is very reassuring to hear that the membership a action plan of the loan roadmap that was offered to you credit for has been scrapped similarly as it has been scrapped to sweden and finland last year. so that is one reassuring step. they stablish means of the nature ukraine council, or the reforming alternator commission to your current into account. so which indicates clear membership between the alliance and ukraine and partnership that could effectively translate into further membership. and those steps are really
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reassuring, but i would like to be more optimistic about the summit as for now, it seems like your cream is still in the waiting room. and it still needs to prove that it's not nato expansion that threatens russia or the world order. it is actually the ambiguity that rushes thrice on. and we've seen that with both wars in georgia and in ukraine, after 2 countries were denied major membership in 2008. so hopefully this time it will rectify that. i'm gonna miss go global affairs analyst and london. thank you for your view and for your time. thank you. all ukraine is still waiting in the wings. sweden is all set to join the defense alliance. after months of blocking stock homes, been turkey has agreed to green life, sweet and succession. nato secretary general against oldenburg made the unexpected
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announcement on monday evening. after talks with turkish and swedish leaders ahead of the nato summit, turkey it had been holding out against sweden joining accusing of not being tough enough. i guess curtis militants, here's a nato secretary general of uh, just how the constructive meeting with post and the wrong. and the problem is the case, the drum this, i'm glad to announce that the officers sold suppressed. and the other one has agreed that to forward the accession protocol for sweden to the ground national assembly. as soon as possible, i work closely with the assembly to ensure ratification. this is the effect of the in the joint press statement. just agreed that by, for instance, i have the wrong time. is it just as wrong on myself? the memorandum concur this year to go at them. i did some, it has delivered it has delivered more in our fight against terrorism,
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more security for to kia. the stronger nate to fiance is a non resident senior fellow and the foundation for the defense of democracies and an expert on turkish domestic politics and foreign policy. with synergy, the welcome to the day. what do you make of this statement by nato's? the installed and birds, were you surprised by and by turkey? strange heart. well, this is kind of the high stakes drama that some of us have actually been sort of the mounting of it for a while, thinking well, he could say yes or you could say no, but we will not know until the billing there's some of that. it looks like he's or president, our line is render a decision as well or 11th hour, depending on what your perspective is. but it'll be interesting to see what the details behind the agreements to see whether it's searchable, that she would like some of his policy goal request. that is how to washington from washington in retirement for actually green lighting sweetens membership. it's also been announced that or no one will meet us president joe biden,
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tomorrow. so should we assume that means turkey has gotten what it wanted and what does it want? well, it will be interesting to see if president biden can deliver on his promises to mister ireland. he's been suggesting that in return for turkey green, i think nato membership of sweden by them will use all of his influence to try and convince the united states congress to lift its objections for turkey, acquiring new 5 digit specific. yeah, sixteen's. i'm not sure that's necessarily quit for a quote, because the us congress does have considerable oversight and will power whether it as soon as he gets these that succeed fighters or not. it will remains to be seen where the president, biting can actually convince can grant a congressional committees specific universe and foundations committee to zip it's present objections, but there are people receiving 516 projects. what's, what's this ever about sweden and it's honestly in stores,
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kurdish mil intends or even about turkish, accession to the do something that he raised this morning, much to the surprise of his nato allies to you know, what? no, um okay, it's, it's, it's think, i think if you look at it, um, you know, this has been a very traumatic, pros, esplanade. so, but i think from se perspective, it has been, i would argue, a disastrous diplomatic outreach because yes, the green, it's a sweden's members, you've been to the does what it's been, it's previously. but these 2 countries are not as necessarily going to be very supportive of searching centers, good board, least of all sweety support. and so it gives you a european membership, which it was historically the final of i don't think that's going to be on the issue anymore. but also look, there's considerable resentment on, on the part on the part of western allies to what start to be drawing this out for so long, particularly because it raises. so it makes essential questions on the future of the west of on specifically, what do you do with members by turkey and hungry,
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who have been holding up the, you know, with the expansion of nato, for very sort of trivial reasons. mr. ad on may or may not get what do you want, but the reputation credibility of the traditional public in the face of native otherwise i would argue isn't. tasha is at this point, however annoying to the other members of the alliance. his veto to sweden's accession gave him a tremendous amount of power, though the weird is the stand within the lines. now without the sort of leverage a well, i don't know. i mean, you sure. i mean, look, i don't want has made some demands off of a lot of specific united states. and in that room, as we've just mentioned, in the realm of visor jets. whether he gets those or not. we still don't know if that's going to happen. we'll have to wait and see, but that, you know, data side, i mean, where does turkey go from here in his relationship with the west? this is, seems to be sort of what i would call very sort of leveraging very sort of,
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you know, hostage type type of diplomacy with critical into additional allies. an awful lot. um, if turkey had, you know, specific demands towards your opinion, membership or, you know, it's continued desire to acquire new weapon systems. there was probably a way to, to go about this without essentially holding it's western allies hostage. this is not the best way to actually go and pursue your national interest and i think going forward. so if you will sort of encountered a few problems in a to, in isn't written in human type of what it wants to achieve. yeah, goldenberg has said that early on made a clear commitment to swedish accession happening quote, as soon as possible. should we expect that to happen smoothly. again, we'll have to wait and see me from my reading of it and start on his basically stated that he will now sort of refer this not to to the circus, call them and verification. i will have to see how quickly moves on that. but last, have to see, you know, if you know, one of the problems to are the one,
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what is he going to get them a time for this? that a copy nothing. if it is, i'd be very surprised simply because of all this time he spends in the entire 12 month basically holding out the succession brokers process, simply because he thinks he's going to get something out of this. and it does nothing. you need me to turn that into quite a surprise, so we'll have to wait and see. in a recent article, your wrote, your recommended nato allies show some tough love to turkey in response to what you call hostage style diplomacy. what should and could that look like? i mean, so there's been tremendous relief in your opinion, nato capitols of the last, you know, several minutes since this announcement came. right. and, but if you look at it on face finding turkey, approving, swedish members of nato is not a breakthrough. is simply doing what all of a 31 members are headed to have essentially agreed to. it's not a massive sort of compromise on turkey's part. and this is the way to ireland operates basically just saying, you know,
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rushing up tensions until the west essentially case. and thereby are the ones such as the agenda until he gets what he, what he wants to achieve. out of this relationship top left could look like, look, you know, there are new, numerous new nato allies specific degrees, for example, which i saying look in return for, you know turkey's weapon sales from, from the united states. could we get some assurances that certainly wouldn't use those fighters yet? so i type in eyes us. what about for the cooperation on ukraine, a support of ukraine? these would be the russian invasion, but can look on the molten, we ask them to be specific, the realm of sanctions enforcement against russia. we haven't got any concessions out of turkey on the, on this level. and so i think the west or nato specifically, or, you know, the united states could get a much bigger bang for its book by essentially aust, kentucky to be an actual ally. and not just, you know, a proof sweetness membership, which is the bare minimum of one an hour and kind of should be able to do well. who knows? maybe they're listening, seen on duty or the foundation for the defense of democracies. thank you so much.
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thank. it's raining media are reporting that a prominent wrapper, who backed and tire is in protest. last year has been sentenced to more than 6 years in jail to isolate he was arrested after expressing support for the mass demonstrations triggered by the death and custody of her. and encourage women mazda on me, as laura said, he was convicted of corruption on earth. that's one of the most serious offenses in this long, the group up like any other demonstrators convicted of that have been sentenced to death. i'm joined now by give on re a member of the german parliament. she's a political sponsor for to march the le he which means she dedicated some of your time to promoting awareness of his case. welcome to the day. first of what's your reaction to the sentence? it is very mixed because as you said before, um it looked very dire for him. um,
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last november, it looked like he might get the double death sentence because one of the very severe allegations was dropped in the last couple of months. um, so on one side of the printer you will leave that he didn't get the desktops, but still 6 in the hobby as well. somebody who is in the end of all the things that he is accused off after 6 and a half years to manage. so it's very mixed and we don't really know how to feel about that now. um. yeah, well yeah. the every day of the day too many use a other protesters convicted under discharge have been sentenced to death and executed. does this verdict mean the resume was worried maybe about public reactions to its treatment of tomorrow. someone who has a fairly high profile in around yes, lovely. um you could see that the regime was getting very nervous. all of his court dates were behind closed doors. we expected them to like,
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instrumental lies him and to publicize whatever they took out of his trial. but they did not do that. they are now fairly likely that they have been a updates, so they seemed to be very nervous. the last, even last week, they started to personally attack me another politic responses to spoke out to. they seem to be very afraid and they are very well what kind of supports he has world wide to marshall was arrested back in november. what can you tell us about his treatment in jail? do you know much about his situation while he was in solitary confinement for 2 on the 52 days that he didn't get to see anybody else, encore, the whole length of his day in a, in prison so far. so there was, if there is anything really positive of his day, is that he got transferred to a regular prison. also he has contact to of the prison inmates and he will probably
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get visitors. and so he might get a little bit more contact with the outside world. he got to talk to very badly as it could see in a video that was published by the ronnie review. they, they did, they did that beat him very, very badly, and the se is, and this as of last. so you're welcome. you as much we did very nicely with you on one of 3. did well, if you didn't get any edits, we compete with for his interest. so you know, he is not doing well right now. yeah. the you as already impose sanctions on a reading officials over this case. what should be the next step as well? um, i'm on the side, we should never gets too relieved or too distracted over one sentence because that's only one pull. it took a prisoner out of more than $200000.00. so we should never like think that that's how the review will react to all the cases. so we should, um, what jobs, what too much and everybody else to you. and we should like. we should like push
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more politically because we see that people do the same to that working and the you have to keep working together as well as, and we should start united against tara that the region was doing and not be divided over national interest. i think that's, that's very, very important to do right now. that was given, remember of the german parliament and political sponsor for it to last. so late he, a rapper who just today received a 6 year sentence in iran over his role in the protest. they're saying thank you so much. thank you. and that's or time, but make sure to stay informed. stay engaged and stay in touch. you'll find our team on twitter, under apps, data we news, or you can follow me. nicole for the for now though, from all of us here at the day, thank you so much for spending part of your day with the
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the news. the also an environmental issue is go on. notice until they pop up on, on instagram or with the fees, allowing us to the problems that we will have otherwise more scared about hello and welcome. i'm talking about the annual watch.

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