pleasing food and then doing what is right for national interest to ordinary people . that that's the message which seems to have resonated. how high is the dissatisfaction with bruton and food newsom while exhibited tre. uh. the rear is a clear spinning sized russian generals as old as on the exterior competence. and it's a, it's a very interesting in our own legal situation because it is right now that the russian army is gave some vision you found confidence in themselves because actually is, are you crazy on the fence if is extremely slow. oh, that is the perception of the russian army is not my perception, but that's not how they caesar situation. they, they fear that it could be a really big now they say it's not that big and not back horrible. uh so that gives some of this uh, sun sofa. that sound not actually bad, bad. uh, at the same time, but keep lame is age and you're all set and that is why they supported to some

extent of silence. they may be pig gordon's criticism because they share the same feeling, but it does move at that rate. it to just don't think about it. so they still got approval. and the sit in class, we need to find visible for a very long time. is that, but here's how the, the head of the c, i a, is framing the situation. he says that this affection with the world will continue to not away at the russian leadership. and that it creates a once in a generation opportunity for the c. i a to recruit spies in russia. if you are very familiar with the security services, do you think that the c i will find fertile ground for recruitment or? well, i think rather, we, as you know, there's a lot though visual thinking. yeah. we are trying to identify every sign of, of descent as a, as a signal that the system will inevitably collapse and the know as a model for several months. i would be extremely,

i would be more cautious to be honest. it's not likely that lots of people accepted xyzzy. i was a war includes as a russian the let's put in those who are you good at conducting repressions, especially against his own people. we have several s as b people in jail that have ministers sends out government us in jail. so it is a big thing for the russian society and lots of people in their lives found the stands that that's actually there is no way for them, but to stay and to stay loyal to fruits. and so i would, i would say that for c, i a, it's might be an opportunity. uh, but i would be cautious also, the program is bad to say which one is the best people find that it was a chance for defection with and right now for the russian, that is because a folder restrictions, so for travel, i mean the suck with easy to, to make it through europe, all it isn't as a stays, the chances that the same people as a russian. that is what, think ok, maybe now i start spying because i'm any concerned about. so give, give me a chance to,

to move on to the events and not just stays that quite slow. i'm putting um, since the uprising he has been seeming to be bent on projecting normalcy and stability. we've seen him ramping on public appearances. and the week after the uprising, he gave a number of national addresses betraying the rebellion. as a heroic episode, he travelled to the southern region of diag a stand where he sipped local cognac. he spoke about growing regional tourism. he even attended a technology fair in moscow. what are russians make of that? or are they buying it? well, no, not all of them off gums. so especially in big stages bogged and proven says you have lots of people who are still very supportive of pollution and they accept as a russian propaganda adoption of the of. and so that puts in my and, or acid to avoid blood shit on to some extent you did actually have that. it was no real big launched it. uh, except for this uh, unfortunate pilots. and it is appropriate for the middle of tray,

not for that population. provision, i mean his rants, they really offer this alternative to the war propaganda. for many russians in unvarnished glimpse from the front lines you highlighted the useless and unjustified losses. can russians really go back to regularly scheduled programming? well, that's a good question, but i think what because we wanted to do, he wanted to become some sort of uh uh you will press it for, says russian society, i'll be of as a license to uh, tags the russian it leads to mobilize the rest of society which and does one side. he still thinks that it's possible to win the visible def file, the total mobilization. but we don't know what might happen if say you agree on the offensive goes with the success a fall. we just don't know that might change the situation and if that changes, they might be new space and your own property goes on, then people are, can,

let's talk about prudent for us to shore up his power. first of all is a crack down under way. as that is one thing, which is clear. uh, also it gives the services and the army as a national gallery, they loan. is it less than that? why do you have a program? is it on a sort of circle of pollution is about to not go into fair and i think it is a very bad signal for points and because, well what if tomorrow some of the guys say could do it? of all someone, all is the rest of the psychiatric on sale. now come opposite the russian television and say, wow, i'll wasn't sure why the major go to hell, and we need to replace, give someone that would be a huge confusion on that. this cliff right now. you, if you look at the overall situation, though, russia's most senior generals, they, they've dropped out of view since the uprising. i'm thinking about general ross him off. he's reporting not appeared in public. he's of course, in charge of the war effort and ukraine. the kremlin has also been deflecting

questions about the whereabouts of general sort of the can, who is seen as aligned with precaution and believe to be detained. what do you think is happening to them? a while it's really difficult to understand. i've been checking the information about sort of a can for all these days. uh, it looks like sort of course i did. it was sent to prison. uh, we kinda confirmed them, but he said it seems that he was at least until i get as, and it's quite interesting vibes we are here and visit rumors. they both in middle trojan are also about not about security services, which is a very interesting thing. while you have these people, i'm is f as b as a national guard, all of the security services pulled in charge of putting his personal security it, and political stability. it is yet all of the questions that come to has it's all about some of the trick. how much impact do you think these events of the past weeks are going to have on the war and ukraine?

um, it's a good question because on the one hand we see that the walk with our didn't participate directly, at least in big numbers and, and trying to sell you brand new content offensive. it is a jump for the regular russian army. while at the same time walk, there is still a very capable force and they have his reputation ends. there are some miller trait yet there is new confusion now because of the obviously i'm using it stays by longer because of this policy who upheld for absolutely nothing. well, put us, of course, enough of as was about to be spiel of his pilots, were killed because of a on another the russian heroes. but it was a middle track of hearing is that, that it would be no justice for the fall of his policy. and that samuel is, nobody would be prosecuted for keeping this, this policy and that credit and you confusion, it means that it has a re, regular army still finds in the bottle failed. you have

a number of product miniature companies as an ottoman now is looking at risk product mutual competitors. we have some suspicion because these guys overs approved frederick and kill russian soldiers and they can get away the fed. so these kind of confusing and long dollar my sites and situations about the felt the ukrainian counter offensive has, has not yet achieved significant success. according to nato's top commander in europe. do you think that now there is more pressure on putting to end the war? no, i don't think so. i think what, pushing on the stance is, uh uh very it was such a big investment in inside. yeah. of your brand counter offensive. uh, wallace was a big thing for, for that you brand new and governments for as are you bringing latest ship. it was a big thing from nature for the west. in russia, it was played as a sign that the russian army well behaved at the and actually it was not extremely uh, great uh, is the beginning of the war,

but vegas and batch are there is this. uh there is a strange feeling now, especially because it's all about history and the 2nd baltimore and all of that. so there is these ideas shaded by man, yet by the russian army over his dogs of war. uh, and the very bad shape, but a guessing best uh on the way and puts you on this trying to capitalize on vis filling. i'd like to ask you one last question about the uprising, the wagner uprising because many are concerns that if putting does fall, the concern is that a replacement leader could be worse crumbling, critical krakowski said the following. we glimpse how the regimes inevitable fall is likely to come about and the forces that we'll seek to take over so called national patriots, led by another sog. if you look at the big picture, do you think that russia is ultimately doomed to have one thug replaced by another? after putting or all our thoughts into it might happen because as

a more visual goes, is it more as the russians decides, is, gets and used of as well. and now the, i guess it is a motional argument and save opposite will because there's so many casualties. there's so many people killed. and even the people who felt well confused about the beginning of the war. now they have visited in growl and my villas. someone gets killed by these ukrainian, so why should i feel store and bought some more. so and some, and some way the support for that was guessing all it's not big about it's, it's most stable and it means that the whole system of the society projection itself does idea that while it's going to be with a long war. and in the long war you get people like general sand as why, while using the very top language a more and more and more popular pop law. and at some moment they might get some miles from position in depaula. yeah, that's true. and how long do you think putting has well,

i think it has to be i talking about years, a condo, so that definitely have to leave it there. thank you so much for joining us on conflicts out. thank you. the

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