of the state of leaders law and from berlin evidence. as mounting the locker chief gave me, per goshen, is dead. prussian authorities say the mercenary leader who challenge the kremlin was the on a plane that crashed near moscow with no survivors. and staff could have wide reaching consequences, but there are doubts about the trustworthiness of the report. the

welcome to the program you gave me for goes and it was once one of the lot of input is most important allies. now the leader of the wagner mercenary group is believed to be that russian authority, st. promotion was listed as a passenger on a flight that crashed on route from last scouts of st. petersburg. all 10 people on board the province at work before the weekend. patel round channel affiliated with the locker. this is also saying that for goes and died in the crash. none of these reports have been independently verified. this all comes exactly 2 months after wagner fires launched and a board of new me against rushes, military leadership. it was seen as the most serious challenge to president vladimir, since he took power. same, stopped short lived for belly and promotions. whereabouts have been unknown and his face has been a subject of intense speculation. it was initially thought he had gone to bella roost as part of an amnesty deal. but just 2 days ago here was thursday. it was in

a restraint. your video circulated online that appeared to show him and ask for a wagner maintains a strong military presence there and, and the video for goes and it seemed to indicate it was business as usual, or his worst scenario. earlier i spoke to dw is russian affairs analyst. on something i got, and you have more details on this developing story. we do know that the bank, a group headquarters in st. petersburg, lead top of the facade of the building with a huge cross dusk, indicating that some of their top people dot. the speculations indeed intends as to what happened to the play. and the lot of russian accommodate has a point to the fact that the plane was shrunk down, not fall from pigeons, one of many pollutants, a residence is in russia. and this time between moscow in saint petersburg,

in the area of fall died. there are indeed a c s, 300 of defense systems are installed to protect fruits. and so basically, if it is true that they play a pretty gorgeous play, shut down by their defense missiles, it is very difficult to imagine that a kind of major defense unit could have operated there without food coverage and food knowledge of the russian forces as to the uh, as to regarding the himself, of the russian invasion authority published a list of people that were allegedly on the plan and a pretty garden as well as above that himself. his real name was to meet the old king of the creates of the formal office of greeted about the group before a pretty garden true coverage financing was also on board. so it seems that's

essentially what we used to know as a bodily group of was a very indeed dead was decapitated by these crush. what have reactions and rush have been to the crush? oh, it's interesting. some people registered the lots of bottom that there is lots and lots of video prove to that. that's for example, in a coffee that was frequented by a big garden in saint petersburg that are flowers keep you, give me a minute, a sheepy up at the door step. uh, that is a game in town. speculation, the russian telecom channels on twitter everywhere as to actually whether the garden uh, really was so strange that just put a, put it like that as to fly in a plane together with the leadership of the group i. e, in case something happens, uh, the group will indeed be decapitated by the bigger and could have undertaken this of this step. but the most interesting thing that's been tried and the last few

hours is that it seems that pretty garden indeed returned from africa because he wanted to reach out to the russian, meet at the leadership. and probably to put some a to come to the rules by the g r. u, the russian, a defense, and the sort of minister ministry of defense intelligence directly up to t k. well, the home mostly business in africa, if it did indeed. so it is indeed so then probably pretty garden with a quite a lot of hobby. but again, this is just speculation. say that we as constantly got their lunch is still a known about what you're getting for goes is faith, but in his home city of st. petersburg for wagner group has, is headquarters. so puerto is how begun are i thing, i make sure if memorial for the mercenary leader for goes and the story is and the last one he rose from selling street food to become famous. personal chef in the

kremlin, as growing power as a mercenary leader, became clear during russia's invasion of ukraine until his ultimate fall from favor for a few hours that looked like you've got any pre goes, you can post a real threat to russian president vladimir putin sold on power the world watched in suspense as pre collisions, wagner mercenary group seized control and rushed up on done one of southern rushes biggest cities, and then dance north towards the capital moscow. then several hours later, pre collision suddenly called off the operation. he said he wanted to prevent bloodshed and that his intent was never to overthrow the government that way up until that mutiny, pre collision was seen as a loyal ally of the criminal leader. after serving a prison sentence for robbery, pre collision worked his way up to a successful restaurant owner in saint petersburg, earning him the nickname, put in chef, eventually

a legit catering contracts for the russian government. his next business venture was quite different. the founding of private militia, known as the wagner group in 2014 the same year rush legally annex crimea, from ukraine frequency and also established a media group including a troll factory. the united states and other countries accused of trying to interfere in the elections. as after rushes full scale invasion of ukraine faltered, pre collision began hiring thousands of soldiers, including convicts to fight and wagner units eating the crumbling wherever they are . perhaps the biggest triumph was taking the eastern ukrainian city of buck mode. after months of fighting and in which watches regular army had been unable to prevail over ukraine out for some of those automatic lot. but his pre cushing found himself more and more in the spotlight. he used it to rail against the rushes, military leadership and its conduct of the war. so that the, including the accusation that was not providing his mercenaries with ammunition. i

want it and he's pretty green. skewed with the civilian leadership escalated when he refused to let his biters be put under defense ministry command. when i bought a new model and so pre collision is launched. what he called a march for justice. i mean, we came here to put an end to the disgrace of our country. this year is a 1st step. what we're doing is right. it's to save russia. in moscow, a shocked vladimir putin called it treason, a stab in the back in the middle of war. can you just need me to eat any internal time while you is a deadly threat to us statehood for me to be to us as a nation domestic, this will get the most. this is a blow. so russia, so all people, but not from one of our actions to protect the fatherland from such a threat, if you did, you will be talking to the, with the, just with his mutiny aborted,

pre causing love trust on don to cheering crowds. but the weekend of chaos had looked a precarious future for himself and his wagner empire after he challenged food and scrape on power, many of service predicted promotions to mines as a foregone conclusion. that included hugh as president joe, by me, who respond as to the day's events and russia. i don't know for 5. for how much do you think i don't know the job. i'm not surprised by the dramatic events in russia. neither was brian whitmore or russia analyst with the atlanta council. no, i'm not surprised at. busy all i mean i, i expected from the moment that precaution aborted his, his march on moscow back in june. and he was effectively a dead man walking. i mean, the way you have to look at the way politics works in russia is to throw out your,

your political science textbooks and read the godfather or watch good fellas are watching the watch a couple of seasons of the sopranos. this is a reasoning that operates like a crime syndicates, including is the godfather, intrigue. goshen was a capital who obviously didn't understand his play, what, what his place for us. and to quote, you know, the immortal character amara middle from the, the us television series, the wire, you come at the king, you best not missed well, well for goes and came with the kid. i mean, this way, i think this was just a matter of time and i think it's, you know, without the risk of stating the obvious, this was a delta, this was an accident, this plane crash, the cousin. um, so yeah i, i am not surprised by this one bit booms famously vindictive. he biting his time and, and this is what many of us expected to see sooner or later. and he wrote very shortly after this fail meant me that if from goes and didn't pay a heavy price,

hooton's regime would be in serious danger now. and very much looks like he paid the ultimate price. would you then say that this danger has been averted? not necessarily because i think the what's going on right now has to be looked at in a much, much broader context on the printer machine is getting since the invasion of in crane i over 18 months ago, the regime is kind of put itself in a very difficult spot right now because the elite is effectively divided between those that became very hawkish. elements that want nothing short of the complete conquest of ukrainian or russian military parade on the current shot, taking central keys that's not happening. and then those that want to go back to the world as it was before february of 2022. and that's also not happening. and so what put in is giving the elite is pleasing exactly nobody. and that puts the regime in, in a bit of a precarious position. and this doesn't, i think the promotions rebellion was a function of that split that we see in the elite right now. and i think that

underlying problem, the regime has, is not going away. putting has dealt with approximate threats, but he has not and cannot deal with the under one me moving away from the lead some but for goes in supporters have about revenge today. how serious a threat is this? this is something i'm going to be watching very carefully because again, when precaution did not, it was not immediately punished for his rebellion back in june. a lot of us were asking the question why was putting simply biding his time. that was what i kind of thought. but there were a couple of other hypotheses out there. i talked about a little bit about this on your program yesterday. and one of the theories is that provision had a lot of support within the elite, within the military. and when it's within the security services and within society, now we'll see how this plays out, who is clearly just sent a message. we'll see how this plays out going forward, but this is something i'm going to be watching very,

very carefully. couple other things in terms of optics is displayed out on general surveys to put this sort of ican who is progressions closest ally in the leads. he was relieved of his command of the russian air force today the same day as, as, as, as big ocean's depth. i think that was not an accident. and as the new use of the plane crash was breaking. who was on television, awarding the hero of russia, award to veterans of ukraine. war it's, it's, it's not nobody missed the coincidence that have back in june of last year, who gave that same award to precaution. so i think the optics of this were very clearly choreographed to send a message. and now wagner has been effectively be headed. what's likely to happen to the roughly $25000.00 fighters in various countries of the world left without command. this is another one of these. no, no, no ones that we're all going to be watching right now. my understanding is in this

pre planed plane crash. it wasn't just 3 goals and it was killed. but his right hand man, who can always go who, who's cold, named and the g r u was wagner, which gave wagner its name. she was also, according to at least the initial reports i read, it was among the dead. so per so wagner has effectively been decapitated and we will see this could be put in the hands of another poor and friendly oligarchy. would that would they be as effective as precaution was in, in this it could be disbanded and a lot of sense kind of created a frankenstein monster here, but there are any, maybe, maybe he thinks it's, it's best not to have this going for. there are other aspects of the ocean has like the troll farm internet research agency in st. petersburg precaution was part of this. what i call russia's the venture capital foreign policy. and this, this, this practice of using these nominal lead private sector entities. lake wagner, like the internet research agency, to carry out the, the test state doesn't want to do a structure and we'll see how that goes going forward. i'm all,

that's another thing i'm going to be keeping my eye on and that's, and that's an excellent question. and another one of the no, no, no ones we're looking at right now. lots of moving parts at this point though, it's brian whitmore of the atlantic council. thank you so much for your analysis and your time. thanks for having your watching. do you have any news fell rolling we have reached the end of our show. thank you so much for your company. the idea that smell, jerry is here, mauritania is here on mark track. we know is this one of the great dream and the grim reality the sahara was pale. i swear what remains? i just want to be for the house on the edge of this the heart of the last shelter start september, 2nd on dw, the.