cynthia, once a month, 10 dollars on 3 pro, touched out of the moon, south pole the 1st to do so successfully. and following the failure of a russian mission, just days ago to india now joins a small club of nations alongside the us, russian, china that has successfully landed spacecraft on the move. so who controls access to all the mineral wealth for the belt back? i'm feel go in the lane and this is the day the saturday out, you guys on the moon in new york, but the only some ignored stuff. in the long been all redone. i was part of the man

and the alarm also coming up russian media report say the head of the russian most and the group of wagner and failed mutiny leaders. guinea pig goshen has been killed in a plane crash in russia. one of the passengers of his having passengers killed apparently fog and them nursing their chief. you've got any precautions, at least that's what the russian use agency reporting with reference to the russian or the ation. what stuck are off of the yachts yachts. welcome to the day we begin with india, celebrating the successful and moon landing of its 10 dante and 3 spacecraft. let us bring a technical time for the success of the landing. at voluminous south pole, opens the door to exploring uncharted territory and area scientists believe could hold viable reserves or frozen water. a solar power drove it will collect the dates

of after the next couple of weeks. india success comes just days after rushes, luna $25.00 craft crushed into them or the mission accomplished. chandra and 3 landed on the moon at 4 minutes past 6 pm, indian standard time admission controlled in bangalore. the relief was as great as the celebrations, the same when for prime minister modi at the break, somebody's in south africa, utah in this moment is the full filament. so the hot beats of 1400000000 people, it gives us new energy you believe and invigorates our country celebrations to in the planetarium in the capital daily. it's just a few days since the russian mission crashed at the luminous south pole. now the indian mission will start collecting data that's kind of what can be used for other

place programs in the coming time. probably, we can use the docks to take the human back to the lunar surface and also in the other 9 to 3 mission india. now has big plans for the space program, amount in space, flight and the construction of a space station or in the pipeline. those will be followed by on my missions to mars and venus. will dr. nonprofit go swami as an independent scholar of space policy and great power politics is also a co op of scrambled for the skies. great power competition to control the result of outer space. welcome to the de delta, big day for india rise, or yes, yes, it is. a big day also because as you pointed out in your report, is because is the 1st time that a mission has actually landed on the south for there are missions attempted earlier . india try to land in 2019. russia is, you know, attempted to land just

a few days ago. and so given the fact that the soft full terrain is so difficult because of the lack of data. so this mission success mix it and enabling mission for those the emissions that are going to come see in the next few years. so yes, it's a big day for india. okay. i'm a lack of data about the south pole but, but the south pole somewhere a but a countries want to get to particularly just focus through why that is, are sure because the soul full of the moon is that area of the moon that has resources like water ice that can be turned into also gen 4, supporting human habitation. it also has resources like titanium, byron, or aluminum magnesium that can be utilized. for example, if you want to set up a base on the moon. so that is why, especially many countries are interested in that particular area,

including the united states, china, russia, and the india. so that makes this particular area so strategic because it enables emissions that india will have to now look forward to, for example, in the. a is a partner to the united states. autumn is a court which is just sign in june. and the item is a court actually wants to be able to do resources lives ation missions. and so that is why the south pole is so critical for those particular missions that are going to come in the next, the 5 to 10 years. okay, so it was quite a, um, a list of, of the minerals and the elements that you, that you listed there on. these are important that these are, these are useful in, uh, electronic and clean technologies. so just is it now going to be the wild west is anyone who can get the, gets a king, whatever they can stuff in that pocket or that rules that international traces. so

there are agreements, for example, you have the outer space pretty of 1967 that enables you to utilize space, but you cannot claim sovereignties very clear. and india is a signatory. so are all the arguments accords. countries? china is also the signature, insulates russia. so you already have rules, you also have the 13 d, which has not been rectified by india or any other major space, very nations. so going forward, the hope is that you have an accord like the autumn is a cord that lays down the principles, the norms and the responsible behavior. the countries have to agree to when they sign it. when the basically invest in missions that i'm looking for commercial capability on the moon. so we are not there yet in stock. so we are consensus right now that that was the executive for an i. i wanted to just clarify what not that yet. at the moment, just because it looks technologically so far away, we have time. but anyone who can get up that fast come at the moment,

just fill that boots. so yes, because uh, for example, for india, this is the 1st time that it has actually landed on another celestial body. so that means that the item is a cord countries have the capability real time to do the kind of lunar emissions. they hope china is going through the saw full of the moon and next year with the trailer 6, which is a lunar sample return mission. so there is a rush to the cellphone, given the fact that it has such strategic significance. and as you said, it is a little bit 1st come 1st serve. so whoever gets there 1st, we will have an advantage. the 1st move or advantage like you have in low earth orbit and doesn't necessarily have to be a country if someone's super wealthy, like richard brands and all jeff bays us wants to have a go at setting up a moon mining company. would they have to apply to someone for

a license or can they just have asked it? so according to the auto space pre t and the liability convention states are responsible for the behavior of their private space act. uh so even if they, as you asked the question, even if a law in moscow richard branson wants to go and do a mining activity, this do have to get the license from the state. they are registered to the liability convention mix the states that they are registered to liable for anything that can go wrong. so in the current regulatory pembroke, they will have to get permission from the states they're registered to. they just kind of decide on their own that always wants to go and set up a base and we'll do it. we've already seen no just base model to see if i do. in fact, in the last week or so. we have rushes, luna? 25 admission heading for the moon, south pole, and that's we overtake a ton diary and 3 before it crash service sounds like an actual race with such high

stakes. besides that, there's little incentive to, to trust any sort of international space traffic control. it sounds like if you can get that you, you get veterans and the devil take the high most. so with the russian do not 25. so it doesn't mission that was planned for several years and it has been delayed. and they also took a much for shorter trajectory to the moon, so they launch much later than india and fight to get their. 1 with more fuel and of course loss because of the propulsion technology misfire reading when they try to enter the elliptical orbit. so i think because russia is not 25, it's such critical political implications. one because of what didn't wanted to showcase russia as remaining a major space power also to create legitimacy for his redeem. and to find that it crush undermines that particular desire office actually raised the stakes for the

indian space mission for it to succeed. because india assigned the argument, the court now uh it looks like a strategic alignment because it's happening. russia has joined the china. a lead international do another research station and is collaborating with china to set up a research based on the moon by 2030 slaves. china already has the capability to go to the moon and land there upon them as leon dog and the india has it. in india, of course, assigned the arguments accord left by the us. so there is a rush at this point of time and that's why it is extremely important that we have regulatory frameworks in nor mrs. guidelines that are going to determine how this mission lay out. possibly i think thank you so much for outlining that so clearly for his doctor, doctor them number off at this woman. thank the leader of the fog. the most of the group is thought to be dead russian or far as

you say, you've got a precaution was listed as a passenger on a flight, but crushed on route for moscow to some painters. but as far as you say, 010 people on board, the private jet, what killed in june, who suffices lowest unimportant attempts to take moscow after taking the regional capital vosta home done valve the group for the brutal battle in ukraine for several months to take the city back much. let's look at this with nikolai petroff of the gym and institute for international and security. fast w as of brush, i'm list constantine. i got to welcome both. i gotta start with you at nikolai. and all we know at this stage is you're getting pre. gordon was on the passenger list of his, of playing the crash 2 months. exactly. since he's failed rebellion, people with the image of the say, this is more than just an accident. what went through your mind when you had this? well, of course, there are a lot of conspiracy theories and it's still unknown. what

are the reasons of these a plane crash? there are different scenarios, so that according to one p, it's caused by a web page. the fans and these files, according to another one, there was a tentative is to get the i can so boom, uh it boards. but uh, it looks like small to live. you're getting the big ocean, but he is right. the and the commander of, of, of the golf course name fund which has been used to meet you with jim in the keels and they use cash. right? so cost and same accidents or plots at vase is beneficial to effect for president opposing, whichever way you look at it, there's this, oh, well, there are many ways of looking at it. there are some that the saying already that food and strength of his position that he washed away the shame of not being able

to stop regarding 2 months ago in the fact that seemingly again the allegedly, the plane was hit by an air defense miss. i'll not far from the area where misses are indeed stationed near put into a residence in northwest and russia. so people saying, yeah, that was a put and finally scored the point and destroyed his enemy. but all the other hand, uh, some commentators uh saying that basically the procrastination still costs putting lot of his perceive model of one of the wits ro talked with about 15 minutes ago. the only conclusion from that is next time you stayed, you cool, go all the way. and frankly, there is another consideration. what we've seen some people, the k a piece, the lords i spoke to, would pay an extra traditional execution of 10 russian citizens in a civilian airplane by russian air defense in

a box of iraq or see this puts in that that helps puts in to run russia, this is huge, breaking up all the rules. you don't do that like that. and in this respect, i think, uh, maybe we see a beginning of a new crisis in russia rather than the end of the garden or rebellion a really you, you're seeing a crisis protein because of extra additional cooling, which of course, he has been accused of time and time again of this, why would this one a bad be that potentially the beginning of the end for him? are you well, if the government was killed in a mysterious aircraft, or in a car crash, or even if he was gunned down by known killers, everyone would have understood that this is probably probably the crime this job. but it would be normal to use army air defense. look out of this account. applying

is something really grotesque, you know, and this is something that will not be forgotten by hundreds of thousands of millions of russian civil servants who i used to play by. okay, very strict sometimes pollutants, but you do not use the all the for these things. that's very simple. and i think that this is so all the size of the big that to me will test. and then i'll tell you, is just as a human being, i don't think that using such reports, select proves it's right. it's rather proves the desire to prove strength, which is a completely different. so what source of inquiry do you think that will be? i'm will anyone have any faith in it? or the gosh, just a minute to meet? no, i don't think that's going to be any inquiry. oh, rather the inquiry is going to be superficial. what we do not know yet is uh, what will the russian propaganda call it,

whether they will say that it's the ukrainians who did it, whether they will say it was an x and then well that they will say that pretty gordon was as they were sitting in june, actually a very famous uh, uh, mafioso in his previous life. and finally, some kind of a vengeance co top with him and his people. oh, that may be a lot of stories. actually my, my theory is that's a russian propagandist property. i have a telegram channels of which the thousands will launch so many versions of this so that the people eventually just switch off. i think that's right, that's their usual. they can stop check themselves. i think just that, you know, we, we, we appear to have the technical reasons. i have lost the live patch off at the moment. so it's just you, in a constant state, is that a bog now without pre goshen and his right hand man, as well as truly wagner grouped was not cold walking about

accident. it was the uh, the nickname of the uh, known together as david saying french the, the battle a nickname of uh, the committee who was a former g r u defendant condo and who created this private group pretty guard from, came in later to become a friend that's of the group for the benefit of foot bought. uh, i think the know the group was because it, it will see now whether it has new lead is coming up. and then we'll see, well the brendan will do to those leaders even if they come up. indeed, maybe, maybe it is the end of the vitamin group as an organized force because they are truly be headed in such and such a formations. usually need carriers metric leaders. in whom do people trust right now they're all. so i think the maybe maybe that they've seen the beginning

of the end of valve the group as an organized ministry for making i petroff of the drum, is referring to national security of fantasies back with us. so welcome back. let's pick up a cousin, seems to a point that just don't what happens now within a box. and the head has been laptop caused a record of said, this is perhaps the beginning of the and wherever you on that i would say that's the reason for you. what's your name was and attempts of the uh, well uh, defense main, your street to get control over about the group and speak or do some degree with things. now i think it's much easier for the military to get what remains from father go. and it's really appreciative how you doing agree with constraint you, but it helps me to tell you to get these monitoring units. wage appear

to be pretty much effective in the world, but it's hard to say with that will be possible for them to keep it in a it's a full month sheet, but at least we can see that maybe it's a report of the, of what you need to to get prism us. busy like a big portion of the boards for a few slots that go by the deep works either way get deeds. busy with a big portion so i see him cuz that's the gamut will certainly. busy right, so exploits each of the fact that the pool is free to you. well, train chance, well, prepare it for the war, but it's got to predict now whether it's going to be possible. busy to use it in a way, it's just been use fund. busy but he bought him to me too because of that, but that's, that's an interesting point is made. we, we have the, the, at the wagner troops side effect to resign. that loyalty add to the crime rates.

those in ukraine. but better of the operations of a spread across africa, did those contain you but managed to buy the kremlin? would they would so soldiers at work as a for the kremlin nikolai stuff. you know, one of the conspiracy theories besides the scripts is connected with these mis cornflakes. then it's known that the origin of was flying from africa to st. petersburg can do, they have to be ships, at least these. the girl was just a sales please thought she was, you know, the conflict waste of the main military intelligence which was trying to get central or what his actions in my lee and some papa and she can fall through. so he plans that although the big washer was there long to continue to

go in africa, the conditions, the dams to get central or what he's thought. infrastructure is preaching, marching dances, and width. uh uh, it will be possible to continue the so that's where he needs to look brush and comes to do that. i guess we are talking about a lot of money when it comes to the sort of resources that, that wagner has been able to control across africa. so, yes, and i think that that's why the drum will continue to use nurse nervous. and frankly speaking, oh, maybe try, can you cry and you need more careers more then to do stuff. is that the electrical republic already? molly? for money? i think there is no shortage of people who will be willing to 7th this formations. um, and i think that to you is it's a real possibility that the g r u will take this whole business over for the

benefit of the drum is specially know that it's seen of top the included in use there. that's the criminal is developing a strategy to undermine west and incidence. so basically to district for the west from the ukraine by creating problems for in west africa, of replacing marines that uh, uh, helping the west to fight the psalm is there. and i suppose that these new circumstances, the g r u, the crime in whatever, but with the rest of the machine, will not set aside lots to get the idea that the want that basically economic political induced reduced this geostrategic interest in effort to defend. and so i think that the most there's started will continue even if the bottom, the story is all right. and this i petrol. all this happening on the day. it was an ounce. that's a general. so guy uh, sort of became had been removed from his role as had of russia's that aerospace

forces. it just seemed to be caught a lot of time on the top of russia's ministry. a. oh yes, that's right. that's a very different explanations. why in general? so i became was replaced, and one of them is clearly connected with the new to me. and so the fact that somebody can was splitting the role from missouri to the twins mainland survey commands. and it's pretty gordon displayed language late in this particular case. but another explanation days that sort of you can, is responsible for any c, c off rod from the fans system when it goes to biology, premium drones. and of course, it's amazing these that this seeing the you've just been announced that general sort of each of them is replaced. uh, and the guy was commander of the fans and the forces

and the same the uh, well uh before him he has been keels and so she has been to be ships with uh, in defense system. mike and thompson saying, i'm a sort of beacon was made for mazda of russian forces in ukraine in october, 10 months into the wall. he only lasted 3 months before he was replaced in that role. and now he's being replaced again in his new role. is this to him on or at the top of the russian metrics, or is this just how a person runs it? like i said, 3 years in the army is a duty officer. if you have a free come on, those are actually in this case, they will not take full of changing at the top in 18 months. then this definitely crisis. there's no doubt about that. the water is not going the way the ground and

wanted it to go. and i think about a, so there is a search for something that's basically think we lose puts out for some kind of very clever strategy and for some kind of deep thinking. but probably pulled the 2 troops for the leading roles and the ministry and most of the payments for the loyalty, it will be very, very difficult to find someone else hands. the crisis, right type of outside comes in training id. i'm just constantine that i got to rush unless i thank you also to the nick lie petro from the drum and the institute for international and security. a fast. it's not say to the day. yeah. that, that's, it's, the day has come to an end, and i'll be back in the same time, same place tomorrow between now and then. i will go to the

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