the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 meeting cultures around the world, people learned to classify small handful of animals with edible and all the rest of the classify as disgusting. w series about our complex relationship with animals. the debate watch now on youtube. d. w documentary, the after months of speculation, the long anticipated ukrainian counter offensive appears to be underway. what will count as victory and on what time table could targets extend as far as russian occupied crimea? my guest this week on conflicts known as ukrainian deputy prime minister, all the stuff you need to know who overseas ukraine's integration into the with nato. we have seen them as of last plus on the side of the old, the russian army, which has not been prepared. let's say, uh for that. what more does she need from partners to future proof ukraine's

defense? and what does she think might convince putting the times up for his invasion deputy prime minister stephanie to know welcome to conflicts down greetings, berwin ukraine claims to have all ready. we're taking a number of villages. i made reports of intense battles along the 600 mile front line with russia. are you satisfied with the early stages of the offensive? thank you for this. uh for this question uh its, um, it's early to make any, any for costs. but at this stage there is a number of things that we can confirm that mostly in the zip. what is your income stone drawn which of the solve and far the ukraine, russian fundraising mission is mostly concentrating on defensive measures to keep their, their, uh, their, their alliance while or a move around. skim done. yes. could each on they're doing the attempts of offensive measures which has not been a successful over there are,

over the recent days. meanwhile, we face a mass of miss solid tags throughout the, the whole territory of ukraine, and especially on these tim party ukraine. the mis trial attack over the last night has in all the directions a been targeted and reached civilian and residential buildings in somebody's yeah, in the, in the product. if uh, in the, in the look on the lookout schooled list of, of ukraine with the people who, who died and face the consequences of error stripes of many of them have been wounded. so uh, additional it to the military have gone through the types of measures was still stays a mass of consequences of um, uh, air strikes, target, the gaze, civilian population and the counter offensive. it's a chance to show your western backers that you can really deliver. now on gain

successful, keep the money the weapons flowing is this a must win moment for ukraine? well, festival, it's not a kind of deal with the eastern, with the west and the world to justify the military support for ukraine. we have to understand that we're talking about the war at the full scale war, which has taken place in the center of your up. so i think that throughout the period of time since the beginning of this. yeah, we did our best to prepare ourselves for a concert types of measures which are being implemented to, to some extent the stage. so the 1st and foremost is to be successful in the battle field and make sure that russian forces are withdrawn from ukraine. them territory, all the others are be the 2nd stage of decisions, but i think that itself a military support is the major sent out to the whole world and our partners that

and there is a trust and support for ukraine for our victory. you meet with nato, a and e, you representatives, what are they telling you what, what are their expectations, and what are your expectations as ukrainians? what would count as victory in this counter offensive? well, i think it's really important to understand that there is a same goal and one understanding of the victory and it's black and white. that means as clear as the in everywhere we can have been reading in the history books on the victory victory is adding the war with the restoration of the territorial integrity of sobriety of the crate and the restoration of the rules based order in a different consequences. first, the victory on the bottle field is, uh, is the extremely important and then political set man bringing back russia to responsibility for the crimes, the ensuring the compensation and reparation back on this is,

but also making sure that are ukraine is provide that with the security guarantees as a part of the new security architecture in your up. i think that this understanding has not been changing over a 475 days of war and will not change if we have a target to prevent. no, it's free and russian and to hold those who committed the cried a call to more metal. his are saying that cutting off crimea from russia could be terminal to pollutants version. is that the best case scenario for this counter offensive? what can you most realistically achieve in the next days, weeks, maybe even month? a? well, experts do not spy the word expert. do not. experts do not take political decisions and experts do not bear. this is tory, create a responsibility for by the experts are not dying and suffering from, from be a,

from the mess of the attacks against civilian population. so it's, it's always good to have the righty of the opinions. but we are sticking 1st and foremost to the reality. so at 1st and foremost, we are concentrating on them. that's of the plans related to uh, to the occupation of for the eastern. so then, pard, so ukraine and following that will start planning everything which is needed to end the war of militarily and proceed with the political a set of decisions which is and try and in the piece for me loves the landscape which has already been stick to by all 27, e u member states, but also b g 7 group. it's expected that the counselor offensive could come at a very high cost for your forces, especially in these early stages wash. it has spent months lang mine fields taking bunker, setting out concrete barriers for tags. is the public prepared for heavy human

losses? are your forces prepared? i think we should also be clear about the very important elements that out, not military people. civilian population is also massively suffering from the war and the work crime, some direction said duration. so the mass of long last think i'm sick one says on the explosion on because i guess is going far beyond the just a uh, what are the areas around that you're somebody, jen? it might, if this is a mess of ecological sequences, we do not still able to give a clear assessment on the consequences to the operation of the separation of their power plan. we would have a mess up by mess of the environmental consequences and everything related to an epidemiological situation. the ukraine following the, the outflow of the word and,

and this is covering thousands and thousands and thousands of solid enough people around ukraine, not taking up families on ukrainian people who have lost their loved ones that and it's not necessarily only be on forces. so there is a full consensus among ukrainian people, but if this war is not ending with victory, this would be the war and the ukraine as a country and regarding the gulf, cut down collapse that you've been referencing there. how big the set back is that not only for ukraine, but also for the counter offensive? how are you seeing it to uh well, uh, a, i'm not the, the, the, the military person uh, for sat at the i cannot truly go into details of the, of the, of the planning go several months. so far we are fully concentrated on basic dating . the consequences off uh for this uh, explosion uh, deliberately done by russian federation. and we have seen a mess of law so,

so uh on the side of the russian army which has not been prepared. let's say uh for that uh, which is another uh, with most of the broken chains of command would then be on pull. so some of the russian federation and understanding that the live of the human being, the line goes a soldier of russian means nothing to, to the russians. elsewhere. i'd like to ask you about moscow's accusations that ukraine is behind a range of aerial attacks on target, inside of rushes, borders, and recent weeks. for example, near the northeastern border in belgrade, also in moscow and russian occupied crimea. how much do you or the government know about these incidents to uh, well, uh there are like 2 of this things that we have to have in our minds pressed to inform us that nobody has been hiding behind. let's say the, the, the,

the operations may, the 3rd 3 of the russian federation. the says, the a special. com. but beside them comes this big problem. the citizens of the russian federation, who named themselves but a ration, but found them the and the, this is a all this information. secondly, it's a very important to understand that. and the worst case scenario for action for duration is to admit that their own borders are not protected and their own citizens are sending again russian federation. and that they're not able to control their borders and not able to, uh, to mitigate about the, the mess of rice off of people in the, in this area. so russia would never re, pigeon eyes that they said like that. and it would always be grade, blamed of that to our understanding is, is that, of course, a ukraine is back in the anything like that. but uh, recognizing your brain as a,

as a mess of military power prevailing over russia is the 1st step towards their defense, a mean new crime and you've done assessed on it there as well. you've denied responsibility for the incursions within russian territory, but the question is, do you support them as well? again, i think that the very fact of this occasions taking place on the territory of the russian federation and the russians, claiming the responsibilities on ukraine as the 1st step towards the defeat of russia. doors that are very condition of their incapable of taking the military and that security a sense of so for us, it's a, it's a, it's a good sign of russian incapability. zaleski has been doubling down. meantime, on ukraine's push to join nato, calling for a strong signal at the nato summit in vilnius in july. if a clear invitation to ukraine is what he's calling for. do you think you'll get it

as well? i think that we should understand that at this point, we're not talking about making you brain a member of nato tomorrow. there are like more priority targets that we have here by having this experience as to solving a minute before a summit. we understand that when the contra offense of is that is happening when the war on the military problem is that we should be prepared and resilient and result in our action. that's why we should start preparing ourselves for the membership, as it doesn't been confirmed by all uh, 30 allies and at the stage what is considered necessary over the vin. just summit is just a political award day, and it's particularly set for you crate that to, that's 30 allies have a very, very ambiguous position. so we're putting a political responsibility on taking the actions to confirm that ukraine will become a member of nato. and literally there is no um, there's no uh,

any objection for this political invitation to type nice. um, so then let me ask you, we, so then let me ask you this. i mean, here's the words of the landscape. he said recently, how many ukrainian lives is one sentence at the vilnius summit worth? what is that one sentence that you want, that one sentence from the allies. the ukraine is invited to join the data and the modalities will be identified. taking into account the security situation. there is however, in the backdrop division in nato on when, or how to provide a time table for nato membership. is that also something that you would need to see? well, this will be subject for a forward discussion. at this stage. we do not even have a lead go and legal for my the i'm the which there could be a place. there's discussion. so lack of political commitment is something that we say some this moment. and basically,

i think that we're reading this 2nd now as if putting just put in is still say, think over the table of the nature assignment as it wasn't book credits of 2008. and this, any, i'm big u t on political invitation to, for ukraine, would be read by russia as, as a signal that there's still a room for forcing you prayed to negotiate another means for months. and this is not the signal we want to hear. we want to lead us to send over the video summit. bilateral security pledge is made by individual countries are being floated as a possible step now on toward ukraine joining nato, france recently. back to the idea. how do you see those efforts? is that the best you can hope for as well again, where we're splitting the political process and the actual decisions from ukraine joining the nato. it might take some time. it would require additional efforts on interoperability. and so

a timing on the security situation ending the war and etc. throughout this period, we have to start in vase thing is in our defense and learning the lessons from the war and preventing russia from having a hunger with the 40 or without him, to give the answer to the question that any aggression is possible. that's why security guarantees are the major instrument at this stage. it is possible we have a trust horse who reliable strong partners who have been supporting you friend, militarily. and this supports should be on the strategic basis. and this should be a signal also for the defense industries to be able to adjust their production based on this security guarantees. because the worst so last time. but our security guarantees from, from nato and nato partners even worth having even, it's not, it's a ton of collective or an individual basis. i mean, because you've had assurances before, i'm thinking back, you know, 19942008. and it appears to have meant nothing,

as well as there's been a declaration, but not be guaranteed at so. and the declaration is not something that is needed because it would have plenty of them already of the various, uh, the various stages. but security guarantees is again about transferring you credit, defense capacity, sustainable, and most of military supports for a long period of time based on the, on the targets out strengthening your brains. aaron defends, land forces, and all the elements of that. and mess of a mess of engagement um, through the military defense support, but also an immediate political response in case of another act of aggression based on the lessons we've already learned from this war earlier this year. and i'd like to turn now to ukraine's e u. emissions as well. um,

earlier this year the prime minister said that he had set what he called ambitious goal of ukraine, joining the e u in 2 years. is it fair for ukraine and the ukrainian prime ministers who expect the you to grant membership that quickly to uh, well, uh, uh, uh, what you meant by the, by this message is, but we will be ready for that as a country. so we're taking it as a whole worth of restructuring or reorienting our way of life on our operation based on the emissions on becoming a member of the u. r. a fully fleshed parts of the single market, the contribution to the single market and the your economy. so that would require a mess of legal and regulatory adjustment. so to our understanding and our plan and cycle is up to 2 years to make sure that we're capable to, to, to join the you add, provide, we'd spend, but by the end of the year, european leaders will take another. and i would say the less political decision to

open the accession, thoughts to align our expression process with the reconstruction and financial support to that regard. but, but you know, there are some reports that are coming in. that's something you capitals have private lead, chastised both creating and officials for expecting the process to be completed in rapid time and the blocks leadership as well for encouraging those hopes. when you throw out time tables like 2 years aren't, aren't you raising false hopes among your public? so well again, we're talking about 2 years to build our own prepare desk for, for membership. and it's really important and it is the way to communicate to uh, to people. um there's a very big difference between nature and at the end you accession on new york session, people in ukraine, 91 percent of the population support thing that they understand that either is

already a formal process, it as well communicate to it's well controlled by civil society, so there is a huge leverage of know which in that regard the parts of the support itself. so i think that the major target for us is to make sure that we are competitive strong and capable member of european union. and that our economies are only benefit from that. so at this stage, we need to launch the expression of the dogs to be able to uh, to have this negotiations and the stage for us. it's really important that it wouldn't be up your m technocratic negotiations process. without delays, political delays, and etc, so much work has to be done, including further measures against corruption, tightening laws, against money laundering, and the excessive influence of ukraine's wealthy oligarchy. how do you expect to effectively do so during a full scale invasion? a worst situation? it usually increases, for example, the risk of corruption, the, oh well i, i,

we don't agree uh in the, in the very front that it is increases the risk of corruption. if it has to be very opposite the fact that all the instruments we've been trying to, to our legal and institutional system, they are no fully operational operational. but they are also backed up by a 0 tolerance to any corruption in times of war. especially if it comes to the to be administrative services or everything related to the functioning or of the state. so it has really an opposite a. let's turn back to your defense to your security, which relies on billions in a from, from western partners and also equipment. it's been said that the u. s. and european countries have drawn down their own stocks without a clear plan to sustain high levels of military aid thereafter. partners right now, also facing energy crisis, storing costs of living among their own domestic populations. how high is the risk that support at these levels might not hold? uh well,

that's part of the answer to the question that we've been discussing before, and the security guarantees. this is exactly the substance of the security guarantees in training. the bi lateral engagement to develop your brain dis, pounds, but also to give a strategic understanding on the european and your atlantic defense industry to make sure that the military support is sustainable and strategic. most worrying is the potential for us to port to wayne, increasing uncertainty about whether it can match its existing levels of aid and equipment. is currently being discussed, given a divided congress. a presidential election next year where some leading republican candidates have said the war is a territorial issue. how devastating would defend us support be for your defense as well? indeed, we understand that, that their congress might be divided on some issues by the that's never been divided on issues related to ukraine, ukraine tutorial, integrity of serenity frames, aspirations,

regardless of the name of the president of united states. so we have always had a strong bipartisan support and the state show we do a, a strong and coordinated efforts with the white house and the department of defense in terms of the, in terms of the sustainable planning of the military supports. packages of military supports and financial support, but there's nothing that could signal to us that basically these by parts of sport or your brain will be undermined by any of the elements of dart boards. but we have to say, i mean, just last week, for example, president biden said that he believed and use that word, believed the us would have the funding to support ukraine as long as the tech's saying that he believes that it doesn't sound as confident as to us used to be as well. uh, he made the statement and uh, just today we have uh the announcement from the uh,

from the us about the zation of another package from the military support that, of course, it's not looking the way as the f. uh ukraine. uh you find out officials are sitting here waiting for for the last time. this was a daily job which has been done at chords nation with that with the white house and department of defense. so we have a very clear strategic perspective in that regard. and we do not have any reasons to consider that a will be changing for our french president, francois alon has said the following. he said that the way the war ends might depends on the outcome of the 2020 for us presidential election. and that i'm quoting here, if trump is elected, he will say, we stop here, whatever the russians have, they can keep the war cost too much. time is not on your side and this war is at uh, yes and, and uh the elections are taking place. uh or the next year, but now we're in the summer of 2023 and we're uh we're in a beginning called with

a mess of the conser, essentially across the country offensive measures. this is the 1st thing. but i think the most important thing that, uh, why would the whole world be mobilized to a democratic world to be mobilized or supported? you create because the whole world understands that we're sounding full, the democratic values. but the very important thing that it is ukrainians who were fighting will be fighting with their bare hands. and this was ukrainian school was tending 475 days of the 3 day war. and. 5 it's understanding that military supports allows us to save our people, to save our armed forces and to be capable and about the field of sophisticated that building the nature of standard itself. so uh, so i wouldn't, uh, i would them to put a, an equal sign between the military support the, the,

and the victory and the war. because the whole world stands was you created, knowing that you created world wide will fight with any means we have for our independence on serenity. and that is clear to everybody and you were on this program last year. the morning after putting an order troops into ukraine beginning the invasion. and i just like to ask you to do expect, did you imagine more than a year ago, the extent of the conflicts, the time, the damage, the casualties? well, we've learned a lot throughout this period and we are now living our lives knowing that we are ready for at least by to and living on the thread of living down to the nuclear black male on a daily basis. but also give the sense of a bit different reality. we are ready for anything to have any prime minister stuff in each. and i thank you so much for joining us on conflicts on a thank you,

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