the so called all the topics, i'm much up to you from temple, fixed a new culture and in 15 minutes, left side of the parts of our community life on the research is now on the top. the much anticipated ukraine and counter offensive hassle, far achieved, led to what many exports have filled for long. it's gradually turning into reality, the war is likely to result in a frozen conflict or an abiding tools. the latest announcements about denmark on the netherlands, the f. 16 fighter jets for ukraine are also unlikely to change the scenario some why. so then the rest have already started to suggest that ukraine give up line for me to membership. an idea of that ukraine has called ridiculous. meanwhile,

russia is trying to win new friends at the brick summit and his guest again blaming the west for ukraine space. so on to the point we all skate land for beef, showed ukraine gun safe to 3 to rush you off the hello and welcome to do the following. them you shop, have us on here in berlin. ukraine is fighting a tough spot to. meanwhile, the news of wagner chief precaution allegedly being aboard a plane, but gras industrial has got everyone's attention. so how would things done out for you? great, now, to understand this of 3 spectacular, i guess with me today, we have medium pulse man. she's expert on eastern europe at the battles. mindshift,

i'm next on the final is come on the guilt on suspects. and he's, we're looking fellow at the gentleman institute for international and secure dfs s w b and rights extensively on military and security issues. and joining us from our headquarters info on behalf room on going southern gold e books, what dw is the russian desk and has been reporting since the beginning of the war and your brain a very long back them to you all the thank you for joining meeting ukraine is struggling, joshua is trying to win new friends, a brakes, and then we have this news about walking the chief. how is all of this developing? how would all of this affect the war? now? i do not think that. so what has happens to plan goes in with affect the war directly. i think that russia some uh pick to is uh, in south africa rica as a bloody me to put in would wish for you said she is looking for new friends.

certainly. so i'm, and i'm here, so in the, over the past weeks before this plane crash, the scene to it that the situation in africa and it's a prepared somehow and with the major command of the box and a group where it has been very active. the central african republic, libya and so on to, to kind of like get this under control. but at the same time, he is abiding by the globe through some that he is smoking by not appearing in person. so at least he's not reaching out to new friends from a strong position, not from a strong position roman. i'd like to know from you how the reactions in you dreamed to the plane crash now. as well, directions were rather reserved. i would say, of course, many people who are very, very happy because regardless, he's wagner group and have killed

a lot of ukrainian since 2014 monday for us to our sense to ukraine, to fight in gun boss. and some of them also participated in the integration of crime. yeah. boss, in general. um, the feeling is that um, uh, the, the scripts in the russian system of power. this became visible during the pre goes and meet you need the day will remain. and the hope is that some day is a little bit bigger and of course ukrainians follow him. the and the situation inside the russian military and to gordon has a psalms, at least some supporters. there actually was criticizing the russian defense minister sluggishly. who and of luxury pushing refused to remove him from his position. so when she go stays, this will um, in, in the short or middle term perspective. well, a week on the russian army because the she's, she's not popular. and if she stays, this will undermine the russian, the russian war in ukraine. but for the moment,

the situation seems stable from moscow. me probably hear more about that, about a plane crash in the future. i'd like to understand about the going to offensive and how the war, where the war stands as of now, is it already a frozen conflict? would you say that? i wouldn't say this um and also sorry tv often have the picture in mind when we speak about account to offense. if that we see 2 forces on the battlefield clashing at each other, but military operations work differently. totally differently. you have aspects to you need to take into consideration like psychological aspects, logistics, etc. and i think what i can observe from the create train and countertops that offensive is that is a develop plan that takes these effects into consideration. they work with signaling, they work this type of logical effects. they target also the logistics behind the battlefield. so all these other aspects have a very important momentum and this momentum can be much bigger than the actual

clash on the battlefield. and i think that's the point where you're training and forces i'm working on to create these effects in order to wait and then the russian side on the battlefield. and to regain the territory taken from me by russia. ukraine needs more sophisticated systems like the f, 165 digits, and the daughter's crews messiah's father. moscow has repeatedly warned against the delivery of such weapons systems. the slides for every single square columbus of russia and ukraine. both report successes, it's difficult to say which reports are accurate. what's up? the ukranian counter offensive has not been as successful as hopes, however, ukrainian presidency. lensky was able to announce one success this week. ukraine is guessing f. 16 find subjects. denmark and the netherlands have promised to deliver

around 60 to ukraine. it will take months before they all deployable, which is the breakthrough needed for the ongoing offensive. ukraine also wants german torres cruise missiles, with no agreements in place yet. these missiles can fly hundreds of kilometers fall into russian territory, which is why germany is still reluctant to supply them. for weeks, the german government has been assuring you crate and up they are assessing the situation. could f 16 find to jets? and the torres cruise missiles bring new momentum to the counter offensive. good on what is it that the f 16 and the thoughts and the site look into that other weapons of discount? well, several specs here as well. let's stop was the point of the f sixteens. after this, there's no made to deliver f. 16 a sixteen's from netherlands, and denmark will take up to half

a year approximately until they on delivered until the pilots of trained. and you can see them the in ukraine at it is a very political sake. no, i would say it's not military necessarily necessary. i would say, because currently there's no ad dominance for ukraine around its territory. so flying these, the aircraft operating them is very dangerous. they can be easily target from the russian side. so at the moment, other systems will be more necessary at defense systems, ammunition, etc. but the momentum here, the politic of 6, not as we continue this to support the new weapon systems we are delivering. so it's more political signal than the military. and why are those systems not being disconcerting? now about, i think most damnation and the of the defense systems. we already looking into scare capacities in the other countries because we deliver it so much them. in

addition to already, our economy is not at the point where we can deliver constantly more, it needs to be reproduced. also the, the defense system, the, the iris system is a very complex system that needs a certain time to be produced. so it's nothing we have on the shelf to deliver. but you say it's a political decision then why did it take for the us so long to give formation for the f? 16? well, very important point from the bottom administration of 40 by the administration is not to escalate. they'll always say that's what they say is also they don't want to have ne, to getting into an escalating situation with russia and also on the, the 2nd aspect here. the 2nd thing we need to look at is the main focus of the buying of ministration is still in the new pacific with china. so they don't want to be involved too much into europe. so that's why they are hesitant to bring more

material more troops, maybe, or more commitment is at least 2 year old because they have to focus on the other side of the globe. a medium girl. i'm just saying that it does take a long time for the f sixteens to be delivered. now this is not the 1st time that it's going to take this long to have been other promises in the past. and, but you trade inside is already showing frustration that they haven't been given stuff that they've been promised. why is everything taking so long? because in our political considerations and it has not been taken account of the fact that things as a governments and just set a need time to actually be there and a be a bit be, be made available. and that is a, um, a floor that has been going on through our, um, way of uh, accompanying um ukraine and supporting ukraine and some, uh,

rightly so. um ukraine is um, disappointed or pointing to the fact that this is needing to very concrete losses of human beings on the battlefields. um, because uh, as a matter of fact and what is happening right now is that you crane is some fighting in an offensive which is always more risky and more difficult. but on top, it is fighting in a already difficult territory that has been so heavy mind. i'm as i don't think that has been an example and will fer um, or maybe a long back out of the involvement in africa. but it's really a, it's, it's, it's a very drastic tenants and plus, and, and in this test set that ukraine is being expected to fight. and in a way that's nay to what's in there,

both sides because they are de mining and or they are, they are of trying to break through the some the census that russia has been booed up has been booting up in the time it took to supplies such an weapons, and to them they are doing batch without an air superiority, which is a reason for bad losses. and of course we are not only talking about a such a long length um miss hyatt and, and christmas highest spots. and there is also not. and they are not so many or not sufficient attack helicopters and they are kind of like picking those, but russia has spots and some are still available. so that's why you both suggesting that this is more of a symbolic had been a real one. i'm not saying it's symbolic, but it's not enough. it's not enough. i'd like to go to rome. i know it's not enough, but the rest has been a supp like weapons. all the base has been extremely slow. but how do you see this?

the dependency that ukraine has on the way is because of the weapons, doesn't the kind of give the rest a certain follow to decide what keeps policy shouldn't be like as well. um, the west is already um, in very close talks with ukraine as what the policy should like but its the ukrainians who have to decide how they how they continue. so um and um, speaking about the web us. yes, the west has been delivering a lot of options to crying, but it's not enough as the we've just hers. i totally agree was thoughts. when i was last time a new crime in spring, i asked about f sixteens through training and soldiers and officers, and they told me we need them a loss, but we don't think that this will be kind of our magic silver bullets. so they don't believe anymore that any kind of single weapons will decide the course of this war. so they just need a tang send of tillery and shells for those things,

and they'll tear as well as the f sixteens. so it's a war of attrition. and lots and lots of frozen conflict, i mean, a war of attrition to when a to create needs, sustainable weapons deliveries. this is what has been promised to ukraine in vilnius at the nato summit to boss something that is being questioned now in the american press. so the question is, maybe we'll go north a cellphone with you as long as it takes in the end. this is the question question mark. so we don't know the answer to the question. the sources are anonymous in the united states media, but with the presidential campaign. next the starting. now, we will hear more and more such a voice is probably and this is what worries ukraine ukraine is worried about. how, how steady will this flow of weapons be from the west? and maybe this is the reason why you're present presence the landscape in his address on the independence di and ukraine was talking more than usual about the u

. k. and local production about ukranian own weapons developed, and we've seen that those weapons were successfully used in the black sea attacking russian ships. so on the one hand, we're talking about help from on the west. and on the other hand, the west seems to be getting impatient. a close associate of the nato secretary general stein jensen. v simply said in an interview with that ukraine should give up out of instead of tree for peace and get needle membership ended on. though he did apologize for his comment later, the statement caused us to land full piece of statement that have not come from brussels. nature's headquarters so far should pops up the territories in the south and east, a next in violation of international law since 2014 and now contested, be seated. ukraine is currently fighting to recapture them. this proposals unimaginable for the president. we are ready to exchange belgrade for

a membership in nato doc, huma as belgrade belongs to rush or not to crane nato. secretary general again starts and back attempts to assuage the tension. does not we're not thought. okay, what is decisive is the ukrainians themselves must make the decision. they must decide when the prerequisites, when negotiations are present and what an acceptable solution is funding. so this thing is exchanging territory for ukraine's membership in nato just a misunderstanding. oh, is there more to is how do you see that was the statement really blown out of proportion or is nature walking on a plan b? i won't say it's not an official native position in the run up on to the venue summit of natal. earlier this year, many scenarios have been discussed because one of the main points on huge and

dominating the agenda of to summit was natal membership for ukraine. so the allies discussed scenarios if this could happen how it could happen. and at the end of one of the major points of made by the us, but also by germany. as long as the voice going on natal, ukraine will not become part of nato. that was one of the major points so on that allies then on the national, by letter it initiative to develop scenarios, how they could support provide maybe security guarantees. so to support you train the staff, be several ideas coming out from the baltic states, lithuania, but also other countries. my call gave interesting speech and brought his love a for security guarantees around about security guarantees. so there has been some initiatives of what countries are considering or planning may be,

but not in the nature of framework. currently. it's not an official option, but it is one of the options being discussed of today. i think o options took you on the table and discuss otherwise you, i'm prepared for what might come in the and many people thing and i think that would be uh where the bind administration, but also our con jim government is looking for having a short term solution quick solution for the conflict, this negotiations, maybe if the situation will be right. if you train, you train on forces took the chief and momentum where russia then goes back from its aims targets in this a war and says, okay, we will sit at the table. that's probably one scenario. they are thinking about it . but it's not a guiding principle. currently me, at least not for nato medium talking bugs loads only the ukrainians can decide who

is really going to decide the fate of the war filling ski or is it put them it's not only the landscapes, the ukrainian people who in um uh um, almost only sono has said that, that is not the so called land versus piece a proposal that, that is out of question because it's not territories. it's people living there on these territories. and having suffered a human rights violations and atrocities, since 2014. and it's not peace either, because there is no concept i'm what to do with, with russia. i mean, russia, it's not a changing and putting, it's not reconsidering of his approach at all. and his words stand that he sees europe in a 1997 tons a and to it's a threat to a european security. i'm what he is continuously doing and to be honest,

security because it has also an after effect. if we, except that's a subjective of that and a out of order moving of bought us. and so, and uh, i do not think that, um, uh, that is uh, something that, um i am sure that is not something that you claim cannot accept. but i also show that that is not something that we can accept um, because of the reasons i just gave. so can there be a peace treaty then the parents would need to, but only as home on guns going southern go as far as the said, it's a vicious rule of attrition and what we have right now and, and only if that rule needs on the better for you to a situation that makes poor team, i think reconsider. we then have the opportunity to actually go into negotiations, but not in that situation right now. if you talk about the piece free to the only piece tree i currently can imagine would be refresh or leave us all occupied

territories. that's what also the, the aims of video caring inside of having it's occupied territories back. so that's the only position currently where i can see a peace treaty other than this. it will be either a wolf, it fearful or recreate, or you train your forces together, missed the support from the best. we create the momentum where you train can achieve on the battlefield, but also aligned to this of the operations in the information space in the cycle. lots of goal space effects to, to, to toggle the russian on forces. i mean, vice president vladimir fulton has use the brick summit to defend and justify the shows war and you trade both and went on to accuse the west off. i'm leasing the war. the emerging economies want to form accounts of balance to the prosperous west . bricks countries account for about 40 percent of the world's population,

and about the quotes of the world's economic outputs. the brakes countries could grow, move in full, she countries are interested in joining russian. president putin joined only by video cool. he was facing arrest on an international criminal court tomorrow in full toots. and it was an opportunity to show that russia has powerful allies, is the bricks, the lions as influential, cohesive and powerful as it seems. could the geo political world older be on the verge of fundamental change? medium none of the breaks member states have taken any steps again. so if you have a 140 countries, i'm interested 6, we heard this morning. i've been approved now is put in trying to use breaks of the sheeted to and of course he is trying it a but some let's see to which and, and extend it will be successful because after all we are talking about

a group of countries. um that, uh for themselves and have a serious consider with the differences. and some we have some of the 3 democracy, some and we have for russia in china and some we have conflicts between china and india. and so we do not have a serious a piece proposed there is plans um neither proposed by china. it's, by the way, it's a short cut we would have wished for, because we, we did see or do see china as a, i'm a power for it as a region of power that could influence russia, but they decided not to do so. so i'm back to your question. 14 is trying bucks and a to whether extended we book and we're also, i think it depends on us, but i don't think it's we book as most of the because um, south africa and also present. i don't think they see them says us on the russians

high if they see them says us swing states and following that interests, i would say more sense that does not spring states they observing what's going on. but they're also bringing that one position into this, like the efforts in initiative when they went to ukraine and most call for peas and my they have been in kiff. kiff was the tech point russian side. so i think especially south africa has a strong position on this war, but also brazil. if you look on the statements from the present president, you see, and that's not the united block, the breaks that even if russia i would visit, i'd like to go to the lawn before we conclude the show room on the show is likely to host the break summit next year. how is that being perceived in ukraine as well? um, your credit is country preoccupied was the war and is trying to pull some of the brakes

. countries on each side we see more ukrainian diplomatic activity on the african continent, which was kind of neglected by, by the granting authorities in the past years. if i may just 2 or 3 brief remarks to what has been discussing about this proposal to, to exchange land for peace. i think it's a very dangerous discussion because it undermines the west and, and you're bringing efforts to stop this war. just remember, the west said before supplying those heavy weapons and those tanks to your crank that your brain should be in a position stronger position to negotiate with russia. we're not there yet. the fighting continues, and that's why your brain needs more weapons. no discussions about giving up because rocky, mit 14 is just waiting for the west to blink. so to site and then it gets to thing that he has more source, right. and then he will win in a year or 2 banks from on. now, when any of the bricks member search be able to get a piece, be the same between russia and ukraine that needs to be seen,

or will ukraine have to give up that a treat? what do you think about it to let us know your thoughts on youtube? thanks for watching. good by the or the

enters the conflicts with sarah kelly. after months of speculation, the long anticipating ukrainian counter offensive appears to be under way. my guess this week on complex own is ukrainian deputy prime minister, all the stuff in need to know who overseas ukraine integration into the un nato. what more does she need from partners to future proof ukraine's defense conflict zone in 30 minutes on d. w. now jerry is here,

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this is dw news life from breland. donald trump states with the fulton county jail, he's due to surrender within the hour 2 authorities in georgia to face election conspiracy charges could be the 1st former us president to get to mock shots. also coming up, vladimir putin breaks the silence on. he has gotten a pre goshen, the russian president called the plane crash and tragedy despite speculation, but he was behind.