a great journey and the grim reality. i have never been to hell, but that's what it must feel like. this a heroism fail. i swear. what really needs to this? i just want to be free, the. the house on the edge of this a hard on the last shelter start september, 2nd, on dw, the the much anticipated ukraine encounter offensive have so far achieved little, what many exports i feel it belongs is gradually turning into reality. the war is likely to result in a frozen conflict are about untruths. the latest announcements about denmark on the netherlands, the f. 16 fighter jets to ukraine are also unlikely to change the scenario. some why. so then the rest have already started to suggest that you train give up line

for me to membership. an idea of that ukraine has called ridiculous. meanwhile, russia is trying to win new friends at the break summit. and his guess again, blaming the west for ukraine's face. so on to the point we are asking land for bes showed ukraine. come see the 3 prescott the hello and welcome to do the following them. you shall have us on here in berlin. ukraine is fighting a stuff about that. meanwhile, the news of wagner chief precaution allegedly being aboard a plain, but gras industrial has called everyone's attention. so how would things done out for you? okay, now to understand this of 3 spectacular, i guess with me today we have media a cost man,

cheese like spot on eastern europe at the battles. mindshift on next on the final is come on the guild on sophistic teams. we're looking fellow at the gentleman institute for international and security f s s w b, and rights extensively on military and security issues. and joining us from our headquarters info on behalf jerome i'm going to the ankles. e books were dw, is the russian desk, and has been reporting since the beginning of the war and your brain a very long back. i'm to you all. thank you for joining meeting. ukraine is struggling. joshua is trying to a new friends, a brakes, and then we have this news about walking the chief. how is all of this developing? how would all of this affect the war? now? i do not think that. so what has happens to plan goes in with affect the war directly. i think that russia some uh, picked uh, is uh,

in south africa rica as a vladimir putin would wish for. you said she is looking for new friends. so it's in the, so i'm, and i'm here, so in the, over the past weeks before this plane crash, the scene to it that the situation in africa and it's a prepared somehow and with the major command of the box in a group where it has been very active, the central african republic, libya and so on to, to kind of like get this under control. but at the same time, he is abiding by the globe and ruin some that he's smoking by not appearing and pass. and so at least he's not reaching out to new friends from a strong position, not from a strong position roman. i'd like to know from you how the reactions in ukraine to the plane crash now, as well as the reactions were rather reserved. i would say, of course, many people who are very, very happy because regardless,

he's wagner group and have killed a lot of ukrainian since 2014 monday for us to our sense to ukraine, to fight in don't boss. and some of them also participates in the integration of crime. yeah. boss, in general. um the feeling is that um, uh, the, the scripts in the russian system of power. this became visible during difficult and meet you need the day will remain. and the hope is that some day they will be bigger and of course ukrainians follow him. the and the situation inside the russian military and to gordon has a psalms, at least some supporters. there actually was criticizing the russian defense minister. so they show who and of luxury pushing refused to remove him from his position. so when she go stays, this will um, in, in the short or middle term perspective. well, a weekend, the russian army because the he's, he's not popular. and if he stays,

this will undermine the russian, the russian war and ukraine. but for the moment, the situation seems stable for moscow. me probably hear more about that, about a plane crash in the future. i'd like to understand about the counter offensive and how the war, where the war stands as of now, is it already a frozen conflict? would you say that? i wouldn't say this um and also sorry tv often have the picture in mind when we speak about account, the offense of that we see 2 forces on the battlefield clashing at each other. but military operations work differently. totally differently. you have aspects to you need to take into consideration like psychological aspects, logistics, etc. and i think what i can observe from the create train and countertops that offensive is that is a develop plan that takes these effects into consideration. they work with signaling, they work this type of logical effects. they target also the logistics behind the

battle field. so all these other aspects have a very important momentum, and this momentum can be much bigger than the actual clash on the battlefield. and i think that's the point, whether you're training and forces i'm working on to create these effects in order to week, and then the russian side on the battlefield. and to regain the territory taken from my by russia. ukraine needs more sophisticated systems like the f, 165 digits, and the daughter's crews messiah's father. moscow has repeatedly warned against the delivery of such weapons systems. a fist fights for every single square columbus of russia and ukraine. both report successes, it's difficult to say which reports are accurate. what's up? the ukranian counter offensive has not been as successful as hopes, however, ukrainian presidency. lensky was able to announce one success this week. ukraine is

guessing f. 16 find subjects. denmark and the netherlands have promised to deliver around 60 to ukraine. it will take months before they all deployable, which is the breakthrough needed for the ongoing offensive. ukraine also wants german torres cruise missiles, with no agreements in place yet. these missiles can fly hundreds of kilometers fall into russian territory, which is why germany is still reluctant to supply them. for weeks, the german government has been assuring you crate and up they are assessing the situation. could f 16 fight to jets and the tourist cruise missiles bring new momentum to the counter, offensive? good on. what does it but the f. 16, the taurus and the science can do that other weapons of discount as well. several specs here as well. let's stop was the point of the f sixteens. after this,

there's no made to deliver f, 16 a sixteen's from netherlands and denmark. it's no take up to half a year approximately until the live at until the pilots of trained. and you can see that the in ukraine at it is a very political sake. no, i would say it's not military necessarily necessary. i would say, because currently there's no ad dominance for ukraine around its territory. so flying these aircraft, operating them is very dangerous. they can be easily target from the russian side. so at the moment, other systems will be more necessary at defense systems, ammunition, etc. but the momentum here, the politic of 6, not as we continue this to support the new weapon systems we are delivering. so it's more political signal than the military. and why are those systems not being disconcerting? are now about, i think most demolition and the of the defense systems. we are already looking into

scare capacities in the other countries because me to live at so much a munition already. i kind of money is not at the point where we can deliver constantly more, it needs to be reproduced. also the, the defense system, the, the iris system is a very complex system that needs a certain time to be produced. so it's nothing we have on the shelf to deliver. but you say it's a political decision then why did it take for the us so long to give permission for the f. 16? well, a very important point from the biden administration of 40 by and the administration is not to escalate. they'll always say this and what they say is also they don't want to have ne, to getting into an escalating situation with russia and also on the, the 2nd aspect here. the 2nd thing we need to look at is the main focus of the by net ministration is still in the, in the pacific with china. so they don't want to be involved too much into europe.

so that's why they are hesitant to bring more material more troops, maybe, or more commitment is at least 2 year old because they have to focus on the other side of the globe. a medium girl. i'm just saying that it does take a long time for the f sixteens to be delivered. now this is not the 1st time that it's going to take this long to have been other problems in the past. and, but you create insight is already showing frustration that they haven't been given stuff that they've been promised. why is everything taking so long? because in our political considerations, and it has not been taken account of the fact that things as a governments and just set a need time to actually be there and a be if it be be made available. and that is a floor that has been going on through our um, way of accompanying um ukraine and supporting ukraine and some uh,

rightly so. um ukraine is um, disappointed or pointing to the fact that this is needing to very concrete but also of human beings on the battlefields. um, because uh, as a matter of fact and what is happening right now is that you crane is some fighting in an offensive which is always more risky and more difficult. but on top it is fighting in a already difficult territory. that has been so heavily mind i'm as i don't think that has been an example and will fer um, or maybe a long back out of the involvement in africa. but it's really a, it's, it's, it's a very drastic tenants and plus, and, and in this test set that ukraine is being expected to fight. and in

a way that's nay to what's in the buff heights because they are d mining and or they are, they are of trying to break through the some the census that russia has been booed up, has been booting up. in the time it took to supplies such an weapons and then they are doing bache with out an air superiority, which is a reason for bad losses. and of course, we are not only talking about a such a long length um ms. hyatt and, and cruz messiah spots. and there is also not, and they are not so many or not sufficient attack kyler club to us. and they are kind of like picking those, but russia has spots and some are still available. so that's why you both suggesting that this is more of a symbolic, hadn't been a real one. i'm not saying it's symbolic, but it's not enough. it's not enough. i'd like to go to rome. i know it's not

enough, but the rest has been a supp like weapons. all the base has been extremely slow. but how do you see this? the dependency that ukraine has on the way is because of the weapons. doesn't that kind of give the rest a certain follow to decide what keeps policy shouldn't be like as well. um the west is already um, in very close talks with ukraine as to what the policy should like, but its the ukrainians. who have to decide on how the, how they continue. so, um and speaking about the weapons. yes. the bus has been delivering a lot of reference to your claim, but it's not enough as the we've just hers. i totally agree was thoughts. when i was last time a new crime in spring, i asked about f sixteens. they are training soldiers and officers, and they told me, we need them a law spots. we don't think that this will be a kind of a magic silver bullets. so they don't believe anymore that any kind of single

weapon will decide the course of this war. so they just need a tanks and artillery and shells for those things. and they'll tutor as well as the f sixteens. so it's a war of attrition and not, not a frozen conflict. i mean a war of attrition to when a to create needs, sustainable weapons deliveries. this is what has been promised to ukraine in vilnius or the nato summit to boss something that is being questioned now in the american press. so the question is, maybe we will not a cell phone with you as long as it takes in the end. this is the question question mark. so we don't know the answer to the question. the sources are in the most in the united states and media, but with the presidential campaign next, the starting. now we will hear more in most such a voice is probably, and this is what worries ukraine ukraine is worried about. how, how steady will this flow of weapons be from the west. and maybe this is the reason why we present presence the landscape in his address on the independence di and

ukraine was talking more than usual about the ukraine and local production about ukrainian own weapons developed. and we've seen that those weapons were successfully used in the black sea attacking russian ships. so on the one hand, we're talking about help from on the west. and on the other hand, the west seems to be getting impatient. a close associate of the nato secretary general stein jensen, v simply said in an interview with that ukraine should give up out of instead a tree for peace and get the needle membership in the done. no, he did apologize for his comment later. the statement caused us the land for peace, a statement that have not come from brussels. nature's headquarters so far should pops up the territories in the south and east a next in violation of international law. since 2014 am now contested, be seated. ukraine is currently fighting to recapture them. this proposals

unimaginable for the president. we are ready to exchange belgrade for a membership and nato document as belle grove belongs to russia, not ukraine. nato secretary general again starts and back attempts to assuage the tension. does not, we're not the what is decisive is the ukrainians themselves must make the decision . they must decide when the prerequisites, when negotiations are present and what an acceptable solution is found things uh, and those things is exchanging territory for ukraine's membership and nato. just a misunderstanding. oh, is there more to is how do you see that was the statement really blown out of proportion or is nature working on a plan b? i won't say it's not an official native position in the run up on to the virginia summit of natal. earlier this year. many scenarios have been discussed because one

of the main points on huge and dominating the agenda of to summit was natal membership for ukraine. so the allies discussed scenarios if this could happen how it could happen, and at the end of one of the major points of made by to us, but also by germany as long as the was going on, natal or ukraine will not become part of nato. then was one of the major points so on that allies then on the national, by letter it initiative to develop scenarios, how they could support provide maybe security guarantees. so to support you train the fbi, several ideas coming out from the baltic states, lithuania, but also other countries. my call gave interesting speech and brought his love a for security guarantees around about security guarantees. so there has been some

initiatives of what countries are considering or planning maybe, but not in the natal framework. currently. it's not an official option, but it is one of the options being discussed. often i think o option should be on the table discussed. otherwise, you all, i'm prepared for what might come in the and many people thing and i think that would be uh where the bind administration, but also our con drum government is looking for having a short term solution. quick solution for the conflict this negotiations. maybe if the situation will be right, if you train your training on forces, took the chief and momentum where russia then goes back from its aims targets in this a war and says, okay, we will sit at the table. that's probably one scenario. they are thinking about it, but it's not the guiding principle currently me,

at least not from natal. medium talking bugs loads only the ukrainians can decide who is really going to decide the fate of the war fill in ski or is it put then? it's not only the landscape, the ukrainian people who in a almost only sono, has said that, that it's not in the so called land versus peace. proposes that that is out of question because it's not territories. it's people living there on these territories. and having suffered a human rights violations and atrocities, since 2014. and it's not peace either because there is no concept i'm what to do with, with russia. i mean, russia is not a changing and putting, it's not reconsidering of his approach at all. and his words stand that he sees in europe in a 1997 tons a and to it's a threats to a european security,

what he is continuously doing and to put on the security because it has also an after effect. if we, except that's a subjective of that and i out of order moving, i'll spot us. and so, and uh, i do not think that, um, uh, that is a something that i am sure that it's not something that you claim can accept. but i'm also sure that that is not something that we can accept because of the reasons i just gave. so can there be a peace treaty then if they go into the i p was we need to but only as whole mind guns going southern go as far as the said, it's a vicious role of attrition. what we have right now, and i'm only if that rule needs on the better for you to a situation that makes poor team the think reconsider. we've then has the opportunity to actually go into negotiations,

but not in that situation right now. if you talk about peace, free, the only piece 3 i currently can't imagine would be refresh or leave us all occupied territories. that's what also the damage of to your caring inside us having it's occupied territories back. so that's the only position currently where i can see a peace treaty other than this. it will be either a wolf at 1st or recreate or you train your forces together, missed the support from the best. we create the momentum where you crank and achieve on the battlefield, but also aligned to this of the operations in the information space in the psychological space effects to, to, to toggle the russian on forces. i mean, vice president loud. you mean fulton has used the brick summit to defend and justify the shows war and you trade both and went on to accuse the west off. i'm leasing the war. the emerging economies want to form a counterbalance to the prosperous west bricks countries account for about 40

percent of the world's population and about the close of the world's economic outputs. the brakes countries could grow, move in full see countries are interested in joining russian. president putin joined only by video cool. he was facing arrests on an international criminal court tomorrow in full toots. and it was an opportunity to show that russia has powerful allies. is the bricks, the lions as influential, cohesive and powerful as it seems. could the geo political world older be on the verge of fundamental change? medium, none of the brakes. member states have taken any steps again. structure. you have a 140 countries. i'm interested. 6, we heard this morning. have been approved. now is been trying to use breaks of the sheeted to and of course he is trying it

a but some let's see to which and extend it will be successful. because after all, we are talking about a group of countries um that the for them says and have a serious consider with the differences. and them we have from the 3 democracy some and we have for russia in china and some we have conflicts between china and india. and so we do not have a serious the peace proposed those plans. um, neither proposed by china. it's, by the way, it's a short cut we would have wished for, because we, we did see or do see tie not as a, i'm a power for it as a region of power that could influence russia, but they decided not to do so. so i'm back to your question. 14 is trying bucks and a to whether extended we book and we're also, i think it depends on us, but i don't think it's we book as most of the because um,

south africa and also present. i don't think they see them says as on the russians high, if they see them says us swing states and following that interests, i would say more sense that does not spring states they observing what's going on. but they're also bringing that one position into this, like the efforts in initiative when they went to ukraine and most call for peace. and my, they have been in kiff. kiff was the tech find russian side. so i think especially south africa has a strong position on this war, but also brazil. if you look on the statements from the present president, you see that's not the united block, the breaks that even if russia have what visit i'd like to go through to long before we conclude the show room on the show is likely to host the break summit next year, how is that being perceived in ukraine or?

well, um your granite is country appropriate. 5 was the war and is trying to pull at the some of the brakes countries on each side we see more ukraine and diplomatic activity on the african continent, which was kind of neglected by the planning authority is in the past years. if i may just 2 or 3 brief remarks to what has been discussing about this proposal to, to exchange land for peace. i think it's a very dangerous discussion because it undermines the westland and ukrainian efforts to stop this war. just remember the west side before supplying those heavy weapons and those tanks to ukraine that ukraine should be in a position strong, a position to negotiate with russia. we're not there yet. the fighting continues, and that's why your brain needs more weapons. no discussions about giving out because the rug important is just waiting for the west to blink. so to site and then just think that he has more sources, right. and then he will read in a year or 2 banks from on. now, when any of the brakes member states be able to get a piece,

be the same between russia and ukraine that needs to be seen, or will ukraine have to give up kind of treat? what do you think about it to let us know your thoughts on youtube? thanks for watching. good, by the of the

enter, the conflicts own with sarah kelly. after months of speculation, the long anticipating ukrainian counter offensive appears to be under way. my guess this week on complex own is ukrainian deputy prime minister all her stuff and need to know who overseas ukraine integration into the un nato. what more does she need from partners to future proofs? ukraine's defense conflict zone. in 30 minutes on

d. w. fast fashion as an environmental 9 a clothing graveyard in the to land desert. this is where things wealthy industrial nations no longer need and light us textile waste gets stranded fashion, watch now on youtube. hey guys, it's evelyn charmaya. welcome to my pod cast. last matters that i advised, celebrities, influenza and experts to talk about all playing loved data. and yet today, nothing less the south. all these things in more and the new season of the fun, to make sure to tune in wherever you get your thoughts costs, enjoying the conversation. because you know it's last matter.

so many portions of loans start out in the world right now. climate change. the story, this is much less the way from just one week. how much was going to really get we still have time to work on doing the flux, this subscriber for moving is like the

this is data between use live from for the defendants. donald trump tens in self again at the georgia jail in historic 1st before the us president. and his mug shop taken suffices charges of conspiring to, of a to in his election to take a more about the case for math correspondence. also coming up, letting me put and breaks the silence on you. if getting for goshen, the russian president called the plane crash, a tragedy the spot speculation that he was behind us plus an explosion of fire as

5 potters across grace. but.