to these places in europe are smash records step into a pool. that venture keeps the treasure map for modern globetrotters. discover some of us record breaking site on google back to and now also in book form the american secretary of state, anthony lincoln was finally engaging in the long delayed effort to hold the slide in us china relations. the main speaking point is still tie one with a chinese determined to re unit 5 and warning the west to stay out of the cool interest. i guess the inside pay is the tie. one east foreign minister joseph works . is they island living on borrowed time? we know that we have the ability to deal with the chinese invasion as china has stepped up in spell. it goes rhetoric and it's on forces have made the secret of

their invasion plans by line c. busy so how much help so, so i want to expect from washington and from europe hasn't been promised to nuclear umbrella for lessons is government drawing from the will in you, chris has 51 very done, only good to avoid of conflict. but it's john. john, good. who welcome to complex of thank you. thank you very much, dan. just 2 months ago, the chinese military completed 3 days of combat exercises of taiwan. and they told the world as forces were not ready to fight resolutely to smash any form of taiwan independence. are you living on borrowed time? yes, we are leaving under the chinese community to rate it all tied up for a couple of years. and the exercise that you mentioned has been quite intense. uh, actually, and we're be old serving the chinese military exercises all these years. and the

one in april this year was probably pretty intense in comparison to other exercises, especially the involved, any aircraft carrier, to the east. i'll tie one and we had big not the was the issue, not just that i want to sell, but with other like body pop in this. is there any scenario that you can envisage in which taiwan with 23000000 people? when's a war with a country of one point? 4000000000? the same question as being asking to tie one for quite a few years. uh, actually what right to prepare ourselves for the possible conflict. for example, we need to strengthen our traditional military capabilities and we also need to strengthen our symmetric have abilities ending fighting a modern war. a symmetric welfare is probably more important than the traditional, for example, in the world in ukraine. many people predicted that the russians would be able to

take over the ukraine. we think a couple of weeks, but it didn't happen like that. uh, the premiums were being able to find on holding the russian military, ebay. and i think their determination, their preparedness for the signature of warfare, or the international support i'm making difference in that is that lessons that we have learned. and we are trying to strengthen our depends capabilities. and the people determination for self depends, is stronger than before. and time one is also receiving more international support than before. and therefore, we know that we have the ability to deal with the chinese invasion. you do think realistically, that's your military preparation. so let me kind of determined to china. you said chinese lead as well. think twice before they decide to use force against taiwan. i know mazda whether it's 2025 or 2027. as you're already looking at possible dates

for an invasion, taiwan simply needs to get ready. why isn't taiwan ready now? you have plenty of warning. the china is determined peacefully or forcibly to re unite to with the people's republic as they put it. why? why onto ready? now, if you look at a modern war, we don't just look at the side of the aggressor, their military capabilities and the equipment they f. if you only look at the other side, you might feel that the try not has the overall mean power over tie. one in tiwana stands no chance. but if you have a chance to look at ty, once defense capabilities, i don't think that the war can happening in that easy way for try not to take tie one over easily. we have but lots of events, missiles in our minute terry. ready are determined to defend ourselves, and i think the people also determined to preserve the freedom and sovereignty that

we have in there for putting all these factors together. you won't be easy, we're trying to launch a war against tie one and pick, tie one over very quickly. and other than tie was preparedness. other major countries, they also deploy their military forces or pasturing to turn the chinese from launching a war against tie one. if you look at the us military pauses nearby and also the fact that japan has been probably is military budget for the next 5 years and to prepare for possible come to majors against the chinese aggression in this part of the world. i think the chinese would have to worry if they start the war against high one. it's, it's, it's one thing for both sides to stage military exercises. but if the worst happens, and war breaks out, do you believe any of a country will fight alongside you? this is a hypothetical question and we always say the law instead of the brakes. uh no

hypothetical. uh yes. if war breaks out of the one who bears the responsibility for ty wants defense will be tie one itself and we are determined to defend ourselves. there's no doubt about it, but for all the countries, i think the most important thing is for them to show their determination to deter the war problem happening. i think the war is going to mean disaster for a lot of countries, economically. half of the container ships of the world is saving through the power, straight area, and 90 percent of the most advanced computer chips or send me comes out. the chips are produced in taiwan and therefore there's going to be a destruction to the supply chain. it will be a major impact, uphold the rest of the world economically. and i think many of the international leaders understand now, india tried to deter from detroit war from happening. and with this kinds of effort,

i think the war is not an affordable, and it's not a minute at this moment. this wasn't quite the question that i asked you on basically looking to see whether you have any cost on assurances that any of a country will fight with you in the event of a chinese invasion. yes, that is the only oh yes on that is a very good question. actually i, we are trying to tell the world that the defending tie one is all on one responsibilities. so the answer is no. you do not have any cost on insurances, but any one will fight with you. that is not the way we look at it. there might be countries that might be people who want to provide taiwan would support the support like i do. and i'd say it's has been providing to you great, give us the emulations was to fight the integration. but the fighting yourself in taiwan,

it's all responsibility. the us has been very clear about what it might or might not do to help you, which may be of course, down to a strategic ambiguity. but it could also mean that they haven't yet decided what they've got to do if you are attacked, which do you think it is. in fact, tie one and united states have been not engaging in very close consultation and communication with each other to think about the future scenarios in the same time to prepare, tie was the best way off how one can get prepared. for example, the kinds of weapons tie one would need and the strategy taiwan would need and the kinds of trainings kind what would need and united states as being providing these kinds of resources or training and preparation of what type one and these kinds of efforts are being highly appreciated and the us decision of whether you will get involved in the war or not, it's the call of the president of the united states. but for tie one,

it's our responsibility to defend taiwan. are you telling me you simply don't have any idea of what the us would do in the event of an invasion of taiwan? well, as i say, you know, we engage in very close communications with you. what i'd say is, and the question is not up to me for the answer, right? and i hope that the time one in the united states will continue to engage closely with each other. in the preparation process, mr. well, on may the 22nd, according to type a news. you confirm that being discussions with the us about whether time one would be included under the us nuclear umbrella like some other countries in the region. what was the outcome of those tools? uh, we engage in the all kinds of conversations with united states and for any content of that nature, i'm not able to give any details off of the discussions plans then on this topic of whether the us would include you in the nuclear umbrella. well,

thank you very much for the racing that question for the 2nd time, but uh for any of the re, uh, any of the content of the discussions of that nature. i would not be able to come from it. ready point, and you con, confirm even that these discussions did take place. i should not be comfortable in the that, that there's all kinds of cooperation going on communication going on in between one of the major countries. and in order for these cooperation is to stay in good place, i should not disclose any of the conversations. mister will. how do you understand president biden's woods? in september last year, he was asked if he was willing to get involved militarily to defend taiwan. and he replied, yes, that's the commitment we made. do you interpret that as providing you with defensive weapons under the taiwan relations act, or engaging in direct to military confrontation with china?

well, our understanding is that the commitment is based on the power relations that the united states as being reaffirming is commitment to type one security by providing taiwan with sufficient amount of defensive articles. what kind of one's self depends. and if you look at the title and relations that it also has to be linked stipulates that the united states would need to maintain sufficient capacity to repel any restore to the military threats or course and in this region. so united states commitment to tie one all to the region has being a rather obvious and the us officials come in on that is a rock sided, a according to the us all peoples. and we don't dial that. united states has been providing power with weapons. and in addition to the providing all the weapons, they also where you can gauge in service and the training of how to use the weapons . and because of these activities kinda wants the past relations with united states,

happiness significantly improving in the last few years. as you know, us secretary of state times and they bring time, has just me meeting with chinese leaders farm and as the can gang one to america, not to challenge paging over the stages of taiwan. the taiwan issue, he said, is the core of china's coal interests. the biggest in china, us relations and the most prominent risk. what do you take away from that? and i take away from that is said, the chinese thread against taiwan is clear. and it's obvious. and it is something philosophy takes seriously. but at the same time, as i understand it, secretary blinking also stated very clearly that the united states oppose any unity that will change of state as cool. that means the will that he stays opposing any use of force by the chinese side against taiwan. and in fact, this is not the only country, not the only one leader that is being saying that are in the g 7 summit or in the

us summit, or even the other. uh, some important, some is the leaders always reaffirmed the importance of peace and stability in the power straight. and they also oppose any human data with change of status quote in this part of the world and somebody even the post the use of force. and lately, there's also a new language coming out of europe, saying that the piece instability of the power straight is an integral part of the global security and prosperity. and with all of this, i'm sure the international caution against the chinese use supports or trying to antics tie one solution. and we hope the international community can continue to pay attention to the chinese motivation. they'll be using force against high one. so you have strong words from the international community. strong was from the west or enough to, to, to china. there were plenty of strong woods directed by doing that,

put in before he invaded. you cried on the wall was a head any way. so it was a strong was maybe a slight to develop to diplomacy, a slightly exaggerated in diplomacy these days that is available. cool. very good question. in fact, other than strong wars, we have also seen countries taking concrete actions in the showing that they have the result of the pieces to build the over this region of united states to pain u. k, canada, and etc. they have all be engaging in the very periodic uh, freedom of mitigation operations in these area. and many of those the service ships sell through the pipe was straight. and these kinds of actions are just the extremes in packing up their stores. and i believe that all those countries that i mentioned have a stake in the piece disability over the power straight area. and they are taking

concrete actions to pack up their records. do you not worry that by seeking washington's help, your not caught up in the rock bottom relationship between the us and china and the badging may be about to right. change out pressure on you some k to send a signal to washington. i guess the question is long as you endanger, becoming a pawn to be played by both sides. that is also a question. ask frequently in taiwan. in fact, some people here in taiwan argue that the work comfortably is between the united states and china. and therefore, taiwan should thoughts the bullets from these 2 giants and we use stay neutral. but i think the real situation doesn't happen that way. the real situation is that high one has been pressing by china. and the united states is trying to provide support to taiwan. so these are the 2 constants and we are leading under these 2 constants in their port. a very important thing is what i want to continue to consolidate.

it's a relations with the united states on the one hand and trying to prevent war from happening on the other hand. and in our relations with china, i can show you that the current government has been recognized international the for being responsible player. we want to maintain the peace and stability in this area by maintaining the state is cool, and it's all believe that the state is close to the best interest of all parties concerned. and i think this is also the position held by the united states, canada, u. k, and major european countries. and we will continue to all of these path to prevent china from thinking that they can take, tie one over quickly and tie one will not serve as a provider. but at the same time, we will not budge to the chinese pressure. you've talked about asking your full support. um, you said in prob last week in order for taiwan to stay strong and resilience and to

have the courage to continue the policy of maintaining the stages, quote. we do need support from european friends that coverage that you spoke about isn't waiting list of what i think the people here in tie was. feel that the support coming from europe coming from multimedia rick are coming from japan and australia and that kind of support make tie one people feel that we, i'm not a little even facing the military course, even from the chinese side. you told me exactly his moral support is that you are talking about moral support, more support. i think the more support is very strong. and if you look at the language is coupled with some of the concrete actions that i mentioned before. i think the people feel very confident that the international support is going to come to tie one and impact it's coming to the high one, especially with the big room that have all the container ships is saving through

low content of ships and saving through taiwan strait and 90 percent of the most of bins, sidney comes out the trips up producing tie one i'm sure the international community will come to the realization that they will be in at it if the war is not stopped in other than that, we are also seeing many other countries taking more actions? do you think the west has been tough enough on china or you have in the past appeared to blame your up in the us for not resisting home combs, new security law and the trashing of human rights and civil liberties. but that came with that, what could for west of done about hong kong and what happened with the chinese introduce the a. well, hong kong is a true tragedy. it happened right before our eyes that the national security law was impose on this place where people used to enjoy freedom and openness and all of a sudden, all those freedom as being taken away by the chinese government. and we did not see

this as an isolated case. we also saw that even 2014 over crimea. and the western reaction to russia in 2014 was not strong enough. and i believe that it has a direct or indirect implication for the war to take place in ukraine and in use a shot if we are not able to take up country actions against the chinese way of doing things over hong kong. i'm sure the chinese will be encouraged to do more in the other parts of the world in this is especially in this region. if you look at the chinese actions in the east china, i see that has already gotten in japan during those. and if you look at the south, china sea is more of a west point, then the pat was straight. and therefore, i think the international community needs to look at the chinese expensive lives and, or is imposition of both towards here in the some of these part of the world in a more serious way. and we need to take concrete actions intending china that no,

they cannot expand their impulses in this part of the world at the cost of democracies. you say that to prevail in this crisis with china. unity is all only pop forward. but in a speech in march, your own president acknowledge serious political divisions among your people. she told the hudson institute the taiwan was split and hadn't so far decided whether it went through the relationship with china or prefer to be on its own. there isn't much time for me to i want to make up his mind on that issue. is that why if you look at the public opinion surveys here in tie one, actually we see a consensus. the consensus here in taiwan is that we don't want to be ruled by china. the consensus here in taiwan is that we don't want to accept the one country to system model and putting, tie one as a part of china or taiwan to stick and hong kong. the consensus here in taiwan is that we want to maintain the status. quote,

the status for the pie one is that how one people is running, tie one itself. the tie one is the freedom uh, is a free and democratic country. so maintaining the state of school is already a consensus here in taiwan. so if you are passing the consensus, the way you say um, why is your partner you had mentioned hemorrhaging support in the way it is? you did very badly in the last year's local elections. you 195 out of 21 seats according to polling by the time when he's public opinion foundation. more than half a voters would not support either your party or the other major parties acquirement time in the presidential elections early next year. people are clearly disillusioned with you and your major opposition. that's down to a failure of leadership. isn't that to? uh, no, i disagree. uh when we do the public opinion surveys. uh, we try to find out what the people here think uh for your information. there's

a public opinion survey conducted by similar organizations here in tie one, asking people what they feel the most successful area of public policy and boarding relations happen to be the most successful. and indeed with the foreign countries are trying to included. i think we have adopted it right policy to maintain the status cool on the one hand in to try and maintain peace and stability in this area and to reach out to more countries. so that's how one has more backing from the international community. i think this is the right approach and this is their approach supported by the public. and of course, taiwan is that the mock was the people afraid to think that the one political party is better than another. and we need to allow the people to come cedar, who is the best or which political party is the best for the country's future. and right now, even though this, that the bait, there's different kinds of supporting. but it's the natural way,

all pay expression here in taiwan. and if you look at the polls, it's a high consistency in some of the candidate seem to be in the forefront against others. and the kind of a tendency seem to be very consistent. very briefly, mr. why not try a little hard to talk to china. you'll presidents have said she's open to dialogue with badging without pre conditions. but even people in your own policy, the democratic progressive policy, you don't think you've tried hard enough. a founding member hung g chang said recently, we have such a solid taiwan identity now we should be confident enough to engage in some exchanges. so why don't you engage like the appointment timeframes to uh, we have the right. uh, but the situation is that china has been imposing conditions on ty, one the conditions, the conditions of being rebuilt by a she's even paying on january 2nd, 2019 and with that kind of conditions,

i don't think any sensible leader in ty one would or should accept those preconditions, those pre conditions we crude, the ty wants you to accept yourself as part of the p r c. i want you to accept one country to assist a model. i want you to accept nothing but you need vacation with china. and these is something that the people here in tie one, not one to accept and therefore even wait, that came t is back into power. i just don't think that they can or they should accept those preconditions. once we accept those preconditions, i want becomes another home called. and by that time it will be too late for us to limit if china imposes another initial security law. i'll tie one. so if one does come with you hand on hot, be able to say that you did everything possible to prevent and we are trying,

tries very hard. on the one hand, our approach is to maintain the status call and trying to keep the peace and stability over the taiwan strait and have on the open institute to invite the chinese for negotiations. and on the other hand, we also strengthening our defense capabilities to prevent china from thinking that they can take, tie one over easily. and at the same time, we are engaging with the international community so that they can support, tie one more and they can help strengthen. i was defense capability, say with the oldest we are trying to deter war from happening and it's not just high one. we have liked by the populace, they understand the cost for the world if the war is to break out and we all wind what we can to prevent work from happening. what is the world joseph low? thank you very much for being on complex some. thank you. well, thank you very much, mr. sebastian. the

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kennedy's going see after life? to our savings saving the world. 40 to answer to almost everything. start september 10th on dw, the, this is dw use and these are our top stories. at least 74 people have died in a fire that broke out in a multi story building in the south african city of johannesburg. the cause is still unknown. officials say living spaces in the building had been rented and legally presidents 0 around the pose, a has sense his control, his condolences to the families of those killed.