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tv   Arming Against Putin  Deutsche Welle  September 4, 2023 2:15pm-3:01pm CEST

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by the day, i'm next hour documentary on the baltic sea in the center of the politics of the russians invasion. a few great i've been present and thanks for watching all have move well, use for you. 6 down here on the flying river is formed by a most of full b perspiring trees or see stars fires. no good deal and the, the invisible, with the effect flows through the sky start september 20th on the w. hello. the baltic sea
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needle controlled waters since the full scale russian invasion of ukraine. a new iron curtain divides. east and west. the threat of further escalation now looms large. on february 24th 2022, the day of russia's invasion, the german navy mobilized its forces to this point, it was a very spontaneous and very intense response of the russians invasion of you crime, which was a violation of international law. we sent everything that confirmed into the baltic sea inside the house should meet or respond to russia's aggression. it's a question that's now being asked across the region. the baltic states, which were once part of the soviet union, have called for a united front against we contacted these to plan to, uh, you know, uh,
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defend the country alone and then the neighborhood afterwards. saint petersburg is one of russia's few access points to the baltic. sea, from here, russia's leadership is determined to stake its claim as an imperial power on the seas push away. this was more than this during the months go forth. once our navy is capable of responding with lightnings, leading to anyone who wants to encroach on our sovereignty and freedom, choose to do what could execute strategic task successfully in honor of somebody in the room or are you in the middle of the russia is also threatening to use nuclear weapons that could easily reach every city in europe, the, i am afraid of nuclear weapons. yes, i'm afraid also because i live in bro linda the
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today almost the entire baltic sea surrounded by needle member states and nato allies, sweden, russia has only 2 access points to lean in, rod and st. petersburg. 6 palaces, even though so named, so has direct access to strategic positions and the bold succeeds because for example, the islands of government, but also fields infinity and among other places destitute in that. so russian naval access to the baltic sea could be blocked in the event of we'll have, you know, 6 for yourself. okay. of them. it was a very different picture before the fall of the soviet union. during the cold war, the baltic sea was almost entirely surrounded by warsaw pact, countries, the soviet union and its satellite states. and by the neutral states of finland and
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sweden. it was a position of power which protein appears to want back but today, the de facto balance of power on the world's oceans is undeniable. nieto has 16 aircraft carriers. russia has one. nato, has 13 helicopter carriers. russia has none. nieto has 135 frigates. russia has 11 nato has over 2000 to military ships under its compact. russia has just under 600, but russia's underwater capabilities are formidable. the country has more than 40 nuclear powered submarines around 10 on with nuclear weapons. drugs from leadership savings of russia, as of a superpower. and the only reason why can be conceded to the superpower is the flags at its nuclear. also. now,
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is because stuff all except for the united states. they do play these cards all the time. and that's why they, we, they are in terms of conventional weapons, very strong guys. they attempt station to use for, for 3 of them. uh, using uh nuclear weapons. but the relationship between russia and the west on the baltic sea was not always as fractured as it is . today. a former german chancellor. i'm going to america, and president vladimir putin song regular contract, apparently hoping to maintain good economic relations get measured by the order. is that good stuff even though just eat so just to let you know that i will do? what do you see with your question? which was of the same things change get the most of the will be near the premium. i'd say the final break came in september 2012,
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the discharge enough to go with them. the ability, hilton had decided to remain in power forever so that there would be no more transition of power. so you know, just to build fee that they're able to put them funding in their own. i don't know, i'm just going you shouldn't go to just to settle. and for that he needed an external enemy, a super human animation devotion. he was at the snow hung over and you can't find a better enemy. the nato eat lots of sham, not the garden, you presume? with the soviet union had collapsed with needle remained and even gained new members for approaching the needle. expansion is fundamental to his narrative. cloud diction. yeah. russia's these, ne, so as it may not just theory, the one that poses the grace of the threat. so sure. at least from the russian perspective, i'm not just in military terms. i know some must go relates fear that nato was planning a kind of to, to talk to the post the government,
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the other give them got to that's russ stock is the strategically important of naval base and home to the german naval command, vice admiral frump lensky, is one of the country's highest ranking officers, but his task is not purely a military one. the o. c is i need to know soon as the ball succeeds, an international body of water, making them with speaking, it's extremely important to maintain open shipping words. that's also true for russia, by the way, at least one side of its imports and exports passed through some pages back or so. so russia also has a great deal of interest in keeping the baltic see result is the dealing in is a german mind hunting vessel. it patrols the baltic sea along with many other nato vessels. for a long time, the underwater threat here was largely fear radical was i'm willing to just back. so he says, i think that's good on the, i'm the, this is
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a military vessel i used to detect the presence or absence of mine is because it's all like we have to send to detect them and on. so i'm the equipment to destroy the all done finished and so can, in addition to that, so i'm going okay, we can also line mine's off south league. the mission has become broader and more dangerous. since the start of the invasion of ukraine, new threats have emerged, such as underwater attacks on pipelines and threats to internet and power cables. yes, and that's outside this, so nobody let me out and divide doesn't always covered up to that. we now have a new responsibility conducting on the water monitoring. we have set up any changes on the scene back out in the monitors at frequent intervals, leasing, often in the port knocked off the phone was the whole the investigation of the attacks. i know it stream pipeline to i'm speak of the not seeing pipeline, lieutenant fritz can provide any details. the mission is classified. who exactly
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carried out. the attack is still a matter of speculation. all of the, the crew i've been dealing and conduct frequent drills to prepare for emergencies like defending the ship from a direct assault. ok. so there by the not either but yeah. just yeah. so is it possible to do? yeah. one scenario is an attack by terrorists on a speed boat. yeah, yeah. right. the
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russian warships are still deployed on the baltic. the beginning. what was interesting, you've said, are you all counsellors with russian ships? do you happen to hear the bone succeeds on some bad fall throws on, so we do have encounters like god, but they all take place under the principles of good semen shipped. and to me, it's like a gentleman's agreement because i think of which you don't hang during the vessels progress. i think, of course, because we keep a close eye on what they're doing. good. and if there's anything unusual if it's reported to me and gets advice about that, those reports are also strictly classified, habitable getting it the all the the both the wish you a 2nd later. why the to to us us? yeah. like was on small noise. yeah,
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nito, finland and sweden have also conducted drawing naval exercises even before finland joins. nato is because, well that's what it says. i got a corporation is very, very close it on for several years now. we've seen frequency invitations to take parts and international move. this under, it's not unusual for the finish in swedish, navy is to join us on exercise by owns mit it sweden and finland, particularly feel the threat from russia. sweden has applied for nato membership. been joined in 2023. it's border with russia is more than 1300 kilometers long. in land is jasmine and had always been neutral. it made a deliberate decision to remain outside of nato for a very long time. it based it security strategy on remaining neutral and maintaining. i would say that and so even good relations with russia as much as
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possible, even during the cold war. and i think it was at the same time finland to maintain the strong military, especially along with the russian border. it strategy, the best possible relations with russia and the best possible defense against this cost benefit calculation hasn't gone dimensionally changed since the war against ukraine bowl. this historical speaking germany's defense minister in january 2023 said something about the tone, but i want to emphasize again that germany is by a clear margin, the highest contributor to ukraine and the european union started. we are proud to provide the support because we believe it is important and necessary, and after the usa we are on par with great britain. every military conflict, everywhere of aggression against us up in states always carries the risk of escalation is collect your gen,
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stoughton for the norwegians. secretary general of nato, has been a key advocate of nato enlargement in europe from the start. your so said attack on ukraine is more than the tackle. new crane is that it's a devastating horrendous attack on, but in a sense are people in ukraine, but is also an attack on the holes if you the pin security order. and that's the reason why we take it so extremely serious. stokes and bread also regularly travels to stock home to meet with the swedish defense administer, pull the on so on and offer his support for the countries efforts to join me to some a aerial, to open book. that's that, can you get the through the shows the outbreak of war on february 24th. it's been clear that russia is prepared to take major military and political risk and we have
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to be prepared for that. next of that, one thing we've learned from this war is that if you want to have access to article 5 to nato's defense guarantees and noodles defense planning, you have to be a full member of nato. this results on the ending the most, some of my food in vidalia nieto headquarters in brussels. although rochelle wanted to weaken the alliance. the attack on ukraine has had the opposite effect. in may 2022, finland, and sweden submitted their official letter of application to join nato as they moved by the lender. then one of the 2 countries submitted their applications. i realized we were witnessing history in the making. after all those countries, when you troll for a long time, probably evolved sweden for more than 200 years. and the fitness became neutral toward the alliance in the 1950s sizable. so not entirely voluntarily. we've been working closely with both countries, so it was an exciting, big moment. my phone, i'm cause only the swedish defense university,
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and stockholm is an elite school for future military leaders. yackel best bag and internationally recognized expert in war studies. teachers here the halls are steeped in history, a concrete at the cost gum, snow depths, but of the live show that's friday. okay, and that's good news is wrong to much to sweden and finland reply from the time i missed you. i missed a couple of minutes. the russian government basically said to that's no surprise to us. yeah, i mean you can also that west and well for a long time, clear the high your into so still if we not and you know to, we got the had, i was a week response of soul people because it was a major strategic the fee to rush me at the house and i didn't want to admit that it's the old stuff to you. i just need to know it's a military parade in moscow. on may, 9th, 2023, march the 78th anniversary of the soviet victory over nazi germany.
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the, the kremlin itself has broad nato, even closer to russia's borders with this war against ukraine, the, and yet people in russia don't see this as a defeat. as russian foreign ministers sergey lab ross made clear at the united nations on april 25th 2023. there's your cell phone so that i see a but that was but of the thirty's, little shooting. you're not that little you unable supported with the claim, is that rush to try to prevent nato expansion. well, no, that's how they see it. from there, i re tower we to have our ivory towers. and the conclusions of unbiased observers and political analysts in russia and abroad, which was that nato wanted to break up the russian federation and ended up uniting it was the money that i see is good figured it's like, you know, you'll split to the nikolai petroff is a russian security expert who lives in exile in germany
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it's easy to present whatever is going as a victorious move for rush and even defeats in these war wage could be seen as humans. a team defeats i can see that to be not that much defense because there are, should oppose this, not ukraine. if that poses the whole west, it oppose this made the which is much stronger. but nevertheless, russia is doing pretty well in view of criminals, propagandists and general la police. oh, jerome inova is a well known journalist and human rights activist and russia. she also lives in exile in germany. which and would you go to was uh, new quote and can afford to lose this for any of the keys. acting according to the churchill doctrine,
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directly sole chit chatted with us again. the blue and the churchill said, if napoleon had had the prompt a newspaper, no one would ever have known that he lost the battle of waterloo, and we'll put you on, was a pretty good and you can afford to lose the ukraine war. and we're still just convinced the russian people, but they're actually winning the war. we go in stock on the united states, make clear. it also stands behind sweden speed to join nato, a semester. thanks for hosting me today and, and thanks for the warm welcome. and the special thanks for those great, one of the 1st you have made the bow and historic decision to apply for nato membership. and you have the full and firm support of the united states. but what will nato gain from the membership of these 2 countries? which may be geographically large, but have a relatively small population. only $16000000.00 people in all
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the on steam in each house and should be looking at the middle trees of sweden and finland. it's evident that they both have well equipped and powerful armed forces. all they'll contribute today to defensive capabilities for taking well adding little to nature's cost and dental. i just didn't get those costs. these vis be class court bank warships belonging to the swedish, maybe our state of the art meeting, the psych money inter mall. definitely we have a strong naval force cause we build and design submarines and operate them in the baltic sea or then we have a skilled, played with modern corvettes and the ability to operate in coastal areas to move um the idea that you just now you also have a strong defense industry in sweden, city, out of bosses, right. and there's no other country in the world with 10000000 inhabitants that can build and design both submarines and combat aircraft for those 2 days clicked on
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another important factor is good land. a swedish island in the baltic sea. busy chalk those coming to get them the opportunity to put it on. so sale and o told him he's one of 3 strategic being pulled some times in. the baltic sea region are treat for and homes another item. it's a danish territory. so, you know, to not far from russia's canadian graphic, i'm just tossed the entry way to the politics. a con spot on the golf outlet is not the only significant time at all central alarm, but it's like a non single line across kerio instantly a place or a military force is, can be stationed notice board for, for, to go through. and i'll say at pretty tough the baltic, she was also on the front lines during the cold war when germany was still divided and the countries of nato and the warsaw pact were enemies.
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the balance of power in the region at that time is difficult to assess military strength is not just about the number of ships and soldiers. it's also a question of the quality of the ship's weapons and training for the crews. overall, the warsaw pact forces probably had an edge the this is a rocket corvette, a worship from the former east german folks, some of the know the people's navy in the 1980 his whole goodnight or captain to ship. much like this one in the feeling came on board in the labor this one or 6 in the middle. we had 4 missiles on board with a range of 80 kilometers and an altitude of 25 to 50 meters to engage. so our
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mission was to destroy the enemy surface forces, mainly and then a rocket launcher since the enemy mine layers. the enemy's offensive forces opens these customer base photos from the 1980s document every day life on board. in retrospect, it seems like the calm before the store, the close item does of industry for the most of the large vessels and the soviet lead would have been moved to the atlantic to find the enemy forces. there is our aim was to take control of it straight from our side, the dana streams and then extend our control only one. also the bingo pfeifer also served as captain in the east german navy on the baltic sea during the cold war. these normally calm waters became very dangerous to us to buy. and so it could be that this dark,
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some concept thought soon the baltic sea, the marine region, with the highest concentration of naval force as an air force as a field, according to more of a search for about $1350.00 naval vessels was stationed here in the baltic sea area that includes night to naval forces on the wall. so tact i'm sending and then sweden as neutral status. so that's on the whole set about 600 had a cop, doesn't that planes going this marine region? so we have the largest concentration of ministry forces in the world's best bet. nieto and the warsaw pact states were constantly preparing for war. the 2 sides were engaged in an arms race, including in the baltic sea. a major confrontation appeared imminent and to both sides feared that the other might resort to nuclear weapons. and yet it did not come to ward. so how follow tile was the
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situation really? does your spiritual hobbies need to come in and it is much light to room and mars such i rent documents to set the whole soul packed minutes. we need to ship this. in other words, to sort of get home for us is august. we have good reason to believe at night time was not planning to start to long see, but that's not what we believed in former east germany. we were always supposed to be ready for the audio, even on the weekends or the ships will require to be at 80 percent capacity just because even when the west german navy was off luck. oh, might be launched on the weekend with this bought rubbish gold. i'll go into the next week or so just to be able to travel and collection today. many believe the baltic states armor chicken lily vulnerable. they were once part of the soviet union and russia appears to europe for the days of soviet greatness. the in march 2022, a stony and prime minister kindly call us pete,
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a visit to nito headquarters in brussels. the church, the allies to help protect just don't the black, the end of the so we need to deter moscow. i think we have to double our efforts to put in cannot twin this war. this is very important to all of us to, to the security of nature as well. and the 2nd thing we need to discuss is how to increase our defense spending and how to do it to a very wisely, as so that. so we strengthen the eastern flank, especially the both the countries because we can't have these plans to uh, you know, a defend the country alone and then the neighborhood afterwards. so, so that's why we need to have to come from that to terence
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a poster to defense plans and, and to very specific things to strengthen are part of the alliance of what's on the ship, though. it's called the ball to jump. the jump to city was and i'm blessed to be on the sea food and believes that any of his tank divisions could invade estonia for lithuania or lot via and no one would resist him when you to him. it doesn't matter . one bit that these countries joined tomato in 2004. so with those of us probably cut those to be new for not the for the digital phone. got, do you now to is, will send you building on the nato is military, the superior to russia. and russian meet to understand that just so that they don't even consider after attacking ukraine, also attacking another neighbor for the baltic states. and so of course, both take partners kept telling us this was a real threat to be though we know di heads. but for us, the idea that these kind of imperialistic solutions still existed and seemed crazy
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and politely, special moment that of the law, the air base is not far from ra, stopped your the baltic sea to launch a euro 5 years squadrons are stationed here with more than 70 aircraft in total. from here, they also protect the baltic states several times today, euro fighters take off from logger to secure the air space. the euro fighter tri food is a well equipped aircraft for combat situations. the fighter jet features up to 3 external fuel tanks, as well as g p. s, and laser guided missiles for aerial and air to ground combat. the nito is stepped up, it's military exercises to test combat readiness. a ryan $23.00, a multi face exercise included one of the largest tactical lending exercises in
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decades. it simulated the invasion of a smaller country by its larger neighbour training how to defend against the invader. like a ramp on troops and i've lost a strike, foster hot and strong. it's a unique combat situation for the french army because it allows us to cross the front lines. it can strike a ton of the field. the voltage 23 was a large scale naval exercise in the baltic sea as a show of force, the most advanced american aircraft carrier, the us, as gerald, our ford arrived in european waters at the same time. the
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nieto and allied forces are constantly training to defend against and attack. the new defender 23 was the largest deployment exercise of air forces in need us history to all of these military exercises, risk provoking restaurant. what else? and we've been conducting both tops for decades. so let me see, this is one of several regular exercises we carry out to the baltic sales on coast, just like the northern coast exercise prussia carries out similar exercises. at the
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end of the day. these exercises and maneuvers are an essential part of maintaining your armed forces. that's why it's not unusual for armed forces who are deployed as a deterrent to carry out exercises. which also sends the signal that we are in a position to take successful action of if need be able in a home. so that is not enough. how little something that over the last 10 to 15 years, a specific logic tended to shape our policy towards russia. in the mantra was, don't provoke russia in order to avoid war, but with russia's full scale attack on ukraine. many people, including political decision makers, have finally understood that the central issue is not one of the western publications and its most goes own well g, like which is largely impervious to outside influence a 3rd on the status which views and defines us in 1985 a large scale, botox or baltic operation,
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was carried out back then. it was certainly a provocation. the maneuver in the vault 6 was in the soviet union's backyard. the . the us, as iowa was an enormous battleship, 270 meters long, and 33 meters wide, larger than the titanic today. it's doc and los angeles. as of floating museum ship, in 1985, it was believed to have had nuclear capabilities. both alternatives, if you will say tolerably, as of course, cost us the most will pack leadership. it's was off the role of knowledge combining share with 16 inch guns on 3 target. and the $632.00 cruise missiles on board with christmas. it was the 1st nuclear equipped carrier to sign into the baltic sea cuts
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need on us making those phone service through us navy. these photos were taken by the east german navy. the us, as iowa was a symbol of nato strength and of the decline of the warsaw pact. the hut is over at the shop meal. i go scoff associates happening, a gosh golf light to mentioned in a speech to members of the u. s. navy, i see is that they were very surprised and impressed by us naval technology. i think the u. s. navy will find the vaughn on to appraise the u. s. navy and the come by power of the ship. good sort of and admitted that we couldn't stand up to the comfort cost is actually english fits on the glass itself, all the dust money in the game. but at the at the same time in 1985 secret plans were unfolding at keep our kona on the east german island route.
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and here lies a relic of the pat, just a former east german bunker on the far tip of the island. a good night of the former corvette kept him in the east german navy knows what it was used for. fitting, thanks for the outside. in the event of war, the bunker was intended to ensure that the high command remained operation awful as it was originally planned to how 70 men. the bunker covers 2000 square meters and was built by soldiers from assessments, naval and construction battalion. all of the other ones or substance readings, thomas the board site, while it was still under construction and 1985 on a photo of the open excavation pit was published in the book about the eastern german military. and then the bunch of other times someone realized when it
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happened, it was too late to some of the books had already been sold since i cost the remaining copies were destroyed. but the location had been revealed that it was now public knowledge and trouble. and to definitely set us all the kind in the event of war, the bunker would be an obvious target. it was a mistake that in some ways is symbolic of the decline of the east, german military and of the soviet union. as the leading power of the warsaw pact, 6 years later, soviet occupation forces began their withdrawal from germany, defeats admin like that him, you're approaching never came to terms with even 30 years later, it is an experience. he seems not to have forgotten i think they had the vision of how the cold war ended is very
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different in the rush and that the west. and the idea is they have to say that the union was defeated and failed, which is so widespread that the west is not a shred by majority of russians in the view. it wasn't them who did stop the cold war and they failed human nation. it was the case as a for example, jim cameron prime is to restore the as rash as gloria as role was very positively taken by russians. but do you, did you, did i see if you do not see like e mail to void, you read st. petersburg july 31st 202214 signs a new naval doctor and the pomp and ceremony were suggestive of a former world power with new global ambitions city
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amelia, with design, the minutes of the on the same day of large naval parade, took place in saint petersburg in his speech, putting outlined russia's new naval doctor the issue at the measure of interest. yet what are areas of national interest are? first and foremost, are waters of the article. with the black sea, the sea of will cuts the bearings see in the baltic, and coral straight to the order. we will protect them firmly and by any means necessary. the key here is the capabilities of our neighborhood, and this device, it is capable of responding with lightning speed to anyone who wants to encroach on
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our sovereignty and freedom's level. the. but what does the new naval doctrine mean for nato? the yeah, but listen, is this and with the rush or it doesn't really matter whether there was a new don't train or an old one because russian makes up the same rules as it goes along the teeth. that's no consistency is the only constant is that they are again, that western values via freedom wouldn't be safe, tried everything in the power to one to mine corporation, within nato and within the european union. but with the majority innovation, it's gonna take now a chief, the exact opposite. i don't, i would guess, but some people in putins in the circle are rubbing that always in disbelief. and when i didn't think they expected, this has happened to me because i said, but russia has another key bargaining chip. colleen in rod, according to russian threats, nuclear weapons,
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will be waiting here for the west end tomato. colleen and crowd was once a part of the former province of each prussia. then it was called clinics back and was occupied in 1945 by the soviet union. as the crow flies, it's just 500 kilometers from berlin. cleaning got up some. i know the dodging should deal with such from marina. i've often i'm still in grad is important to the russian navy in the ground forces housing down the domestic force of the baltic fleet house, the house of russia's maritime military strategy and the politics, the regional. but it's also important for most goes ground forces, because it serves as a russian outpost in the middle of nato and e u territory. and stationing besides the for example, is to come. the messiahs provides russia with much boston access to europe and serves as a deterrent during peace of times 5 and up checking difficult and 5 and time. russia has threatened to station nuclear weapons and coming in crowd,
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but in reality, they've probably been there for years already. awesome, all good. i can close out the out up. they'll take it up, but it's not my get. i would say russia is being very reckless and it's rhetoric when it threatens nuclear weapons at this moment when it carries out exercises with nuclear weapons. and often the, or the, it's irresponsible into stabilizing this w. c. i absolutely reject russia's behavior from this guy. get the either way, the real question is, would pushing resort to the use of nuclear weapons, the t is aging. and so she did express these couple of times, so that's into so from nuclear kept us through of uh we'll go to paradise and our animals will go to hill. uh which
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a is not the real threats of but which means let's take him, sam, kansas direction, at least just of water. yeah. so, so you have to beautiful discussion why she's to the label, gene version. uh, frankly, i believe in pollutants madness the story or beach it is really important for him to remain in the history books as the great one of the great collector of russian land, the great victor of nato. roche. okay. without that, which one of the produce that back to the beginning of the current conflict and ukraine. a war not launched by nato, the. what's the effect on the tons of this mission? if russia succeeds in ukraine, this will not be the final attack. because we have to make this clear to russia by to vladimir putin squished you off with a jump to speaks with him from time to time. but i don't think it's possible to
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reach him, at least he's behaving like a map on his box. and yet, he's also responsible for the death of many thousands of russian soldiers so that i'm saving homeless, the 12 as a kind of push this to get. and i don't think the world will end in the near future to form. and i don't see a winner emerging in the near future either. that's why it's so important that we do not stop setting. an example in our support for ukraine is to, to, didn't quite units is that the is now with us has reached us. you'll just you lose your mouth and it's important that we don't delude ourselves, that there will be an easy way out to somebody else in the short term. and possibly not even in the museum time is the underlying question is, is there a viable way out of this country to considering the current political system in
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russia and the above will give them the current ruler, the current regime. now i don't think there is because this imperialist weld viewing this belief that russia is, i'm just read a very deeply ingrained dash for i'm caught as the nato secretary general young sturgeon beg, went to keep in early 2023, and paid a visit to the wall of remembrance honoring fallen ukrainian soldiers were leaving the world where we have extra hope for going on in your uh, with the large scale military operations we haven't seen in europe since the 2nd world war. the, the honest race on the baltic sea is far from over. a new cold war is raging on european waters. a conflict that is causing terrible suffering and one which bears incalculable risks for the world.
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the, this is the w and use my from the land, you hope for the black sea grain deal. not the russian pull down to it in july, letting me boots and says he's hoping to talk to, but still the agreement as buying for global food supplies and keeping inflation. and thank you. great to president celeste. he says he's replacing defense, but as the elect cobra, they called in over the shuffle of the ministry. it follows corruption, navigation to the residence of to nights. and for his 1st time at summit take self and can you tell me it's safe about that? it could be a renewable energy power, how.

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