is the answer to almost everything. our documents, re series with whoever groundbreaking questions can go into the after life we are sitting, saving the world, 42. the answer to almost everything this week on d. w. the never before and has a chinese head of state cancelled a g 20 meetings. the forum for the most important industrialized and emerging countries, changing thing is now sending his premier lead to new delhi. this will most likely be seen as an affront by host loading. yet she and 40 certainly pursue coming to entrance against western dominance. on the other hand, they are our tribals with leadership aspirations for the global sounds. in addition, china's economy is we can, while india is catching up enormously. so on to the point we ask india booms,

china quotes, what does it mean for the rest of the world? the welcome to this week. to the point, i'm probably gonna guess and i'm glad to be joined by today's guest. i'm gonna introduce them to your vendor. you can fund book 8. o is the senior germany corresponded for the economist based in berlin. felix lee is a journalist, a long time corresponded in china and currently works for the specialist. german news outlet china table. and you saw about the a is my colleague from dw, she is joining us from deli 12. you thank you very much for being with us. and let's cut right to the chase phoenix. i'd like to start with you. she can certainly knows how symbolic it is not to attend a g 20 summit and for the very 1st time,

what do you make of this decision? well, officially there's no or there's no official announcements. so we do not know for sure what the reasons why he's not attending the g 20 summit, and denny, but i think is not so much a meant against india. i mean, there are rivalries, there are disputes border disputes, but they exist that they exist already for a long time. so i don't think this was a current reason why he's not attending. if i would interpret something, uh, i think she was, she didn't p wants to show that g. 20 is not the most important meeting anymore. and this is moment against the western countries on breaks. she attended 2 weeks ago in johannesburg. the western countries weren't a, at the breaks under the twenty's of the western countries are part of it. so he wants to show a little bit of so it's a little bit ment i think moment against the west, especially against the usa. that's a very important perspective,

and yet we know that the g 20 is highly symbolic asia. we've seen many reports on how big the g 20 summit has been promoted inside of india. how big a blow is. she's absence for the host country, or india is not reacting in a way that is a blow. and i completely agree with the the official statement that india has given is that this has got nothing to do with india. deport administer instruction, good unimed, fact even the internship um its outcomes. we have gone on record and said that in the past also a lot of leaders have had to miss the summer because the latest reasons, because is the 1st time that china is missing. but of course, he's sending his representative and all the discussions, all the meetings will be done with the representative. so china is not missing, it is the leader that is missing. and very recent laser chunk or even went on to saying that interview, that was the country's, she meant china and russia,

they would know best why they are doing it. he's sick, moved towards the west. he did not name gas. he did not see us on your, on anyone. but he did say know that this is probably china's be off showing a to do with the g. 20 can be all about the last because china as lisa china was there for the bricks. china, she didn't think has mentioned that even with the in breaks. so it does not look like it as of now that china is trying to block india when it comes to g brandy. so if it's not a blow to india, it certainly is for the platform as we heard of handling. do you agree with that assessment? and if so, how much does it affect the possibility to actually find common ground in the summit? i agree with other assessments. i will tell her that i think one of the additional reasons might be that she just feels he should not leave china at the moment. the economy isn't really poor shape. plus there's some political time all at home that we may not know about. i mean, that's certainly something going on,

but you know the details are sketchy. so i think in addition to all the other reasons, i think maybe he just feels it's not a good moment to be facing so well that to put him and she i'm missing. right. so um, in terms of finding come and gone for the big challenges of all the time, i do think that makes it more difficult, right? because we have a big chunk of the representative of the word population not represented as in some ways. um, i still think, you know, you can probably achieve importance at least symbolically very important things. but it's, it's not how it was meant to be, i think initially, for sure. and the other important aspect of this might leave the stage free for india to become the so called voice of the global south. you said, do you think this is among motors ambitions to become the bigger voice? at least in front of the west? absolutely, and india, and especially moody and his team, they've never shied away from saying that they want to be the big brother in the global south. in fact, as i was mentioning, the foreign minister ladies and 3,

he even went on to say that in the beginning of last year we, he mentioned india that we started using the term global. so that was not being used for a very long time. and we made sure that of each of the words that there is a difference between the global north and the global south. and the north is actually been all the decisions are taking and global south is lagging behind. so we really went ahead and talked about it, and now the whole world is talking about the now the western countries are also thinking about the global so. so a bit of a possible will be on his team. they are taking credit for everything good. that's happening and move us out and that the countries on the bill themselves are being pushed on the main stage. except there is a gigantic powerhouse on the way. the g 20 represents a whopping 85 percent of the world's economic power seat and kingdom only turn his back on the west or joe biden, but also in a way on india's prime minister night in the movie. let's have

a look at the current state of the indo chinese relations. august in south africa. the break summit when moody and changing ping united against the domination of the west. but in the global south, each lays claim to the status of economic superpower. a rivalry with historic groups for decades, china and india have been fighting over territory in the himalayas, cheese, the latest provocation, a map that declares and didn't claim territory as the chinese to well got to deal with are it's harry and leader of the world's 2nd largest economy has been expanding chinese dominance, we use in the indian ocean to his instrument of power. the belgian road initiative now rendered moody, the hidden due, a nationalist prime minister of the wealth, largest democracy, steals ruthlessly with political opponents and minorities. the steering his country steeply upwards. there's no other place where the economy is growing as false as in

india, most recently are taking china for 5 quarters in a row. by the end of the decade, india could become the world's 3rd largest economy, with a population that is larger and younger than china's moody's latest triumph. india is supposed to move, landing, bringing it in line with china, is the balance of how is shifting in india's favor. and i'm going to throw that question directly to you eventually visit shifting in favor of india. um i do think that as a re balancing of paula uh, mainly uh, all of a sudden in big pots, because the chinese economy is, is not in good shape. and i don't think any, i don't think it's going to recover at any time soon. use unemployment is very high, that's, that's the big property price and the properties like this. so important in china, i think it's responsible for a quarter of gdp unemployed as you know,

millions of people. so that's certainly you know, that one economic power waiting west india is actually doing really well. so in that sense, that's certainly a re balancing of power. politically india. so democracy will be at an in public one. that is a democracy west. china isn't. so again, india has an advantage so absolutely, i do think that's a re balancing of power between those 2 incredibly important countries. and how do you think that is perceived from the other side? felix group in china seas india as a big rival as a threat, maybe even not so much. not at least not yet. uh, because uh from the size of the economy. uh. even though in yeah, has passed on population. but on the size of the economy, china is still so much bigger than in your, in the chinese know it. and i totally agree trying to at the moment has huge economy problems and they will not disappear very soon.

what's new about china so far? until recently, the economy grows was the top number 11 priority on everything. we didn't know much about how product to work in china, but at least we could somehow trust that the economy growth is very important target um this has changed under she didn't think. and so somehow it is a little bit of also taken into account to, to have less growth in china at the moment, despite the problem was a property, a bubble of because the china, of course, is also suffering from the sanction spies. the u. s. the tech technology sanctions and this is taken into account china. we are talking about the listing, the coupling from china in europe, china is already doing. they want to d couple on especially they want to get less dependent on the west and technologies

. and on the other hand, they, uh, and that means for a before then the for short time, this will reduce the economy grows because the trying to develop their own technology. and this of course means uh for the meantime that it might hurt the economy. but finish when we talk about the technology specifically, india has also banned different companies from china operating in their country. uh, how do you think that plays into the equation? it's uh, not on the, on the again, the yet i would say at least not on the top 10 again, not as a subject, i think at the moment it is also not seen as a main competitor, not yet, maybe in the future time. the main problem in china, it has at the moment to deal, especially with the u. s. a. treat uh war and all of this technology sanctions,

it'd be due to each other. so this is at the moment, the bigger the topic of the big issue in china. let's shift the perspective to india because from what we're hearing, china does not really seem to see in the as a big threat. but sometimes that at least i have the perception that the rhetoric and india could be a little bit different. talk us through how the perception is in the country in this image of india, as a rising superpower, maybe the rising sort of our and the next biggest thing that is something that is being sold a lot here. and that has also got to do with the elections that are coming up next year. and in fact, hosting g 20 in daily, which is a very difficult task in a city such as dv. that is also a sign that the multi government wanted to give to the people here that if we can do this, if we can manage those and me and my government, we can actually, if they can get to places. so that is the feeling right now. and in there's

also talking about uh, becoming the hard most important um economy. in the next few years, we're talking about 2027 already. and all of that, a lot of studies that show that even if you're able to just go as state to school, it will stay diseased. and i'm with the, by the end of the decade, but the remnants and that and then what do you make sure that he picks the credit whenever possible? because as i say in election next year and who would not want a big brownie points when it's possible. and as far as the drive, literally with china is concerned, use that as a very strong sentiment about driving to be with china and what it keeps pushing about this 5, treat any going to me that you're going to beach the total position, 5 trillion the difference between india and china is still going to be huge because by the time in there, the just 5 trim in china would have cross $25.00 trillion. so that's still a major difference in the i would have the opportunity to see that the right behind

us on china, but here it has to be in behind us in china. so um, as far as the feeling is concerned, yes it's there, but um, it is not going to stand out. it is with china. and maybe that's also a reason bundling that. i wanted to ask you, here in the west, at least up there is not this rhetoric of india being a big threat as we often hear with china. do you think that's because of the same reason that they're not really because they are a lot of your vehicle and i mean i, i don't, i mean i can see if it makes this point that the time that doesn't proceed in your video. so spread but, but, but i do think that survived the end and on your colleague and, and deli, mentioned that and i'm, and i do think china is taking this rival seriously. ok. that's still a very different sort of proportion. but in, yeah, has the advantage that it's not, it doesn't have this very complex, hostile relationship with america. right?

america wants to trade with india. it doesn't really want to trade with china. that's another huge advantage. india has at the moment, i mean, they may think they, they could spa, that's the relatively quick relationship. but i mean there are lots the india has at the moment, quite a lot of things going full for the country. and however, we were talking about that when we talk about china, we talk very differently about india in many parts of the world. do you think there's sort of a double standard taking into consideration that not into ammonia is also being criticized in many respects. we just saw it in the piece of the way the minorities are treated of the way political opponents are treated. is there a double standard in europe and no, it's because there is a huge difference. i mean, uh yes. uh they also human right problems in yeah. have, but india is a functioning democracy in china is not an even worse. it. so we, so if i called the one party dictatorship, we must say now it's

a one person dictatorship. so it's a pure dictatorship. it has become a dictatorship under siege and ping and we sort of hope in the last 30 years that of course, china is still a far town run by the communist party. but there was this hope and there were good reasons for this whole that will, china will also be more politically, be more open and more liberal liberal. but this has totally, this whole pest vanished under siege in pink shooting ping has turned even the communist part of the on the, into a one person leadership. and this is a huge difference, despite all of all the democratic problems in yes, but this is a huge difference from india. and it's not the only problem. there certainly is. talk of a chinese down fall. china had shown the world how it is able to achieve record after record, and you cannot make performance. but those times seem long gone. and problems are

taken over. young, highly qualified, but jump less the case for $1.00 and $5.00 people under the age of 20 full living in china, the records figure was published last spring, will start t test and suspended release of the month lease to to sticks claiming they want to optimize the methodology, many chinese have lost the last for consumption. all they can do is look on this, the homes they saved up full on completed property developers are getting into financial difficulties. the largest chinese property group f, a ground has the highest debt world wide. over $300000000.00 the communist policy doesn't appear to be delivering on its promise of growth and prosperity. ex, bolts in july, we're down 14.5 percent on the year before inputs down 12.4 percent measured in us dollars. china is official growth targets of 5 percent by the end of 2023 savings

on feasible head of state g is calling on people to exercise historic patience for motioning the virtue of hardship. he tells young people to each business is the telling these economic miracle grinding to a halt. and i'm throwing that question to you. felix is planning to yes, the problems. i huge the property crisis, the property bubble has burst and this will take at least one decatur uh, to uh, to get over this. and it's also connected with a nother huge problem. china has a demographic problem. we know these because of the one child policy. uh, this will also heard chinese economy, but we shouldn't on the estimate how powerful the chinese government also economy the and financially is so uh yes, china has this huge economy problem. but a china has also

a lot of power to fight this. so i don't know if you can call it the hope or something that will china will become more modest more uh again, the maybe yeah i, i don't share this whole because the china has kind of such an a powerful economy. it will be able to, china will be able to deal with at least the biggest problem china, can i just pick up on that? and uh, you one mentioned that this one is also by interest and that she's proud. he is not the economy anymore. it's his foreign policy ambitions and you know, if he has big successes will proceed from the chinese point of view. because as on the front policy front, he will think, you know, that's a piece of population and maybe paper over some economic hardships which are real. i'm in particular for, for young people. i forgot the precise number but the, but the young unemployed to something like 2025 percent. i mean it's very,

very high. and that's what you know, of course, terribly frustrating for, for these youngsters. yeah. that's totally fine. and set a, china can become even more dangerous under siege in ping when the common problems are writing that she's becoming in foreign policy and geo politically, even more dangerous. but doesn't that go hand in hand? economic performance and the success and foreign policy. when we talk about what this all means for the rest of the world, we have to talk about the african countries. we have to talk about latin american countries. what happens if china doesn't have that power anymore? so of course, i mean into somebody said china can have these calling the mission because it's such a powerful economy. it's over the chief duck, right? i mean, is it, it has risen to the 2nd biggest economy in the what, what does it mean? i mean, you know, look at the belgian road initiatives, you know, that's still going right if maybe stalling at the moment. but china is very influential in other parts of the world, an african particular, all of that still remains true. so. so i'm, i'm not saying by all means you know, that, that we should, we should discount on that. but,

but i still think that is in india, an interesting rival that has a pit and with a manifest itself, increasing the in the next 2 years. arrival that however might not be immune to that chinese power show when we talk about dependence on china. it is often set the china has the bigger power, especially with the disputes with india. what's your perception of that? but uh, that's a difficult thing to say, but the china has a big above. there are disputes between both the countries, federal border disputes of both and despite the country, the still trading partners with each other and they can't do without each other. and uh, i agree with the most well defined a list of what they've said so far. so um, india is not going to stop reading with china. neither is china with the pros. it's of those for india. and we've seen this new uh, got the map that has come up, that china has shown data trees that are disputed and they're part of china in them

up an industrial concerns over there that it can be done because it's disputed category. and despite that, none of them have stopped the china investor talking, but those she just thing is coming to a g. 20 or not. they are still an tops. and they're also not clubbing together against the west. they have the one inches, but they're meeting each other in issue of their meeting each other in a deep windy. so it's a strange, a modem that uh the global sold is witnessing right now. the question of course here would also be whether india is a true alternative to investments in china to trade with china, even as a lender of phoenix. what's your take on that for the rest of the work? it's always good not to focus on trying to. so much on china as a germany economy has done in the last 2 decades. so uh, in the uh, should be more on the focus. it's a would be a good thing. the problem is, china is economy has become so important, especially for the germans,

and it will be very, very hard to switch to, to other regions. and it's not that old uh, we're talking about a diversification tooth, a southeast asia, to latin america, to india. and it's not that these markets are, we're all waiting for folks loggins' humans and b a s f to come. and they have develop also their own trade partners. so is this will be a tough one for especially for the germans because it was so focused on china. but of course a mid term, a long term. it is almost always good to have different partners and not to focus on, especially a very unstable or politically, even dangerous country as china is because they often talk about values of handling . do you think there's a true interest in actually following values when it comes to cannot make decisions and with that benefit india in this case or um, i think sometimes ceo's pay

a little bit lip service to the sponsors show in theory, that is, i mean i'm if you'd ask them this or yes, of course, we cut deeply about human rights, but often of business and commercial considerations prevented if you look at the figures. gemini, german businesses, investment in china has not really gone down. even though you know, that's the new time the government's china strategy, the government's media encouraging german companies to diversify. but some of the biggest box companies have, i'm making huge investments in china. you mentioned p. s. s best folks i can get. no. it's and it's poppy because the chinese markets remains very attractive and does not. and of us at the movement and all the obvious country that can replace it, at least not in a short time in the longer time property. yes, but the initial time, i think it's very difficult. it's a long road ahead. we have time for one last quick question and i'd like to start with you felix. in a multi polar world. will india be one of the goals?

yes, definitely. and what we have seen 2 weeks ago at the breaks is a big turning point for us, especially for the western countries because they have, we have seen a bricks 15 years ago, didn't really exist. and now it has become a very important gathering. and we're not talking only about the 6 or 5 countries which joints of bricks plus we're talking about 40 off it countries, one to join the brakes. and this should be a long time for the western countries. that's the that they have that they haven't opened up the existing to national institution. and this would be only fair and the important step know that the west of the country should open this. so not the so they that all these countries on not only live focusing on china and yeah, we'll see how that plays out. that's all we have time for. thank you very much to all 3 of our guests and of show it to you for watching. remember,

you can watch this and all other shows on our youtube channel searching the w news . i'm call you, i guess, until next time. take care and goodbye. the

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a watch now on youtube. w documentary. the, this is the w news, live from berlin. this stage is that for the g. 20 summit in india for leaders fly into daily for their annual meeting were climate change and the global economy will be on the agenda. conspicuous by their absence this year are china and russia is presidents who are not attending. also coming up north korea claims to have tested its 1st tactical nuclear submarine meeting leader kim junk bonds. ambition.