and the comments like um, will be with you all the way for as long as it takes they listen to those coming out of brussels. i listen to those coming out of washington that i believe of. do you believe them? well, i check on the price. lot here, but i do why, as i said on the that will continue unless the positive actually let's, let's say for example, yes, the nice i some, it was very clear in terms of the support, but i would like to see also actually a statement to somebody so somebody, ukraine will join nature when the conditions allow when the financing has stopped. and i went ahead and we all day to give you without any less or hindrance everything you need to make that pricing start as quickly as possible. in other words, to defeat the russians, i the chief joke and bring back to our treat your granite entire tray on the crate in sovereignty and control several how, how finely balanced is this more in your view? how could things go badly wrong for you credit and what are the possible inflection

points that you've tried needs to watch for? what do you crash going to continue to defend the russians while continue to months offensive operations? well, they see opportunities as they are indeed mounting some of the form of offensive in the northern part of the house. it appears not with the effective results, so you can go to continue to protect itself protected center of gravity. it's also strength and it's also strength visits people and it will add it's determination the lots made. so lots has also got a protected source of strength, which is, it's a lot cation. i think it ukraine will prevail. i think your credit is prevailing at the moment, but it can, it will only achieve final victory when it has broken through a port of the russian defenses. and in my view from crime. yeah, i'm from those lines of communication. don,

to kind of making it very impossible for the russians to hold on. and so i just got a recall, a huge amount more effort. and let's be on site jeff. it's not going to be over with one offensive. i think we have to be ready to support the pregnancy in a series of counter offensive or which are going to require the same level of training equipment. i'm interested in that the launching of the fast defensive across. so this could run on for time. so the west nature needs the strategic patients to continue to support your grand till the end of like the end of the day . you know, how about the possibility? i think it was a, in an article in may that if the west of the supply all the hardware you pay needs now, victory may not be possible. a nice entrance might have to intervene. directing to assure that k f wins. um, do you think that's a real possibility? is that something that nato would have seriously contemplate, that they saw never seriously come to places before the 2014, or even up to 2014,

an invasion of ukraine by russian nation. i never seriously contemplated the voltage states would be for us and you can never say no. i thought it was set up for the subject that this wasn't about it, but it never. you read it. if it really seriously thought nice, i would in the rockland would you inside ukraine? i think you'd have seen a completely different approach to turns back up. the call this nation. i saw this in 2014 for example. so never roll anything out. um does what is nice i again to have to get involved. i pray not. but if the alternative is a decade of stay on my a decade, all an enormous conferences, a running so in eastern europe, who knows nature, paul might need to get involved in order to swing the balance because that sort of style made a running so in eastern europe, along the borders of ukraine, is going to be a french to, to europe in security. and if at the end of the day,

your pan security is, is threatened. nature of security is trusting nighttime may have to take action to support your credit. but the way to avoid is that the way to avoid may to engagement is the double done now and next. yeah. on what ukraine needs to achieve, victory. but just to follow up on, on how you think this might go. do you think the base or whatever chief consensus on a plan to move in and directly assisting credit in forces with members like 100 off chip? so i kept talking oh, possessing a veto. you think the never gets together to do that? well, it goes, australia is, is no longer made to a number, but no point is absolutely fine. the coast consensus would be incredibly difficult to get concepts that consensus. but as a sonata may tire moves at the speed of a flyer to ship in the convoy. and if, if the threats is the, is the circumstances of i'm not clear and not the moment,

but here not errors antonio's time. things may well have changed and, and if it needs to nice or we'll get that, you've told him some of your interviews about a war last thing 2 to 3 years. no quick fixes. is that a danger that over such a long periods, but it will result as globalized? it drops from the headlines. people get bored, they lose the fighting spirit. money dries up on the priorities begin to dominate. is that a possibility in this instance to think? absolutely, absolutely. and that's exactly what i'm worried about, the west losing interest, the west losing momentum, the west losing 5 coast nights. i may say, oh i'm is they tied defense forces not building themselves up. suffice without being built off to face those right? absolutely. that's my concern. but the with, as i said, i that with an election the next year in america, will america continue to provide that enormous capability?

and that's something we got to watch. and it comes back to my point about the way to make sure that ukraine achieves its picture as quickly as the double dawn of what it needs. now, in order to avoid that long running, long running on cell net, do for see what kind of your do you foresee coming out of this or it's, it's not going to be the same. is it? nothing is ever going to be the same again after this, what changes, everything changes, dr. changes a whole perception of security in your government. i think very so. so it's a very still in your, among european countries a lingering feel that somehow we can go back to some sort of stage of the quote and to with russia, that is not going to happen. what ever happens? yeah, let's assume your credit achieves. that's been a true objective. let's assume the guns bull silent. the better is something as a result of either the russians run a white flag, all the novices or something and the ukrainians able are able to, to,

to liberate as much of the country as will allow them. the security of, of, i was not looking for that is not going to stop russia about russian dissolved under what a leader is in the kremlin. russia will continue to want to eliminate ukraine from a map. it's built into russian dna that ukraine cannot exist as a, as a country. there is no such thing as a separate nation or culture of ukraine. and that means that ukraine has got to become part of no time. and that means, but in order to protect and they try to protect your protect the laws, protect the crane nights i was going to establish a bond of the tyrants, deal around around eastern europe, trying to do grand mobile dive of georgia. maybe even one day by the rest uh, to protect against a russian because what we're witnessing is the decline of the russian. and this is going to play out over the decades to com. it's not

a bit of an over and done with the quickly. it's yours of my grandchildren, 100 repricing his challenge. and so the only way to maintain peace in your loan is through an effective nature to turn so that instead of change the change, but dynamic and economically, financially, the way your positives business, i don't think the public is completely dropped out. but that's my view of the way things are. don't have to do something very dr. of nuclear to tone subscribes to survive this conflict. now the russians being waving gets nukes and all faces. and how are we going to see it when they have a new care um, states doing the same thing whenever they want something that to we won't get home is yeah, i mean, i think you're going to be ready to cancel it, but as, as assuming but somehow or because we've got, you're right in this country we've, we've got tried into an integral dropped into continental a sickness. all that is going to credibly russian aggression to the tire effectively. you need to be able to deter at every level how symmetric

conventional types only plan on all the way up the scale. i think for the foreseeable future, russia, of course, will post a new friend. the way to to the target is to have effective new political turns as well as conventional the turns. but the way to and showed up a new class in the nucleus, sabre rattling, uh, is, is, in a sense rendered um, meaningless is through effective conventional to tire detox because of rational things that it can get away with nuclear black mile 'vette. it won't try that. and if you have effective the terms on every level, it wouldn't be able to provide for instance, you have the big a problem, the west to show that it listens to new, clear black male. it's been listening to what the credit of the sentence it's, it's turned on its rhetoric. it hasn't given you credit. the weapons that need it listens to nuclear back ma'am. and that makes it valuable to basically like north

korea, doesn't it? well, let's just back to my point about self deterrence and a not cooling pritchens month. i mean, let's be clear and the sort of new saber rattling is really, really dangerous. uh, but yeah, the west needs to be absolutely unequivocal and i'm shoulders the top of, i mean, i think we have to know upset and of course is that there is communication between america and russian. up there is communication between certain, all the native capitals and russia. i'm absolute this out that the message has been played out very powerfully. but if there is any form of nuclear uh, new release time to come over. otherwise, russia can expect us off a massive pain conventionally as a result, but the wesley spit cleared the time and about that. so richard sheriff, we run out of time, unfortunately. thank you very much for being on complex. so thank you for having me . thankful for your time. thank you. the

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actually and from the valve direct neva is on the board and lines have all but disappeared until now which people seem to hear it runs is reinstating its board is what will that mean virginians focus on 30 minutes

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