so far in a race against time, they are peers and rivals with one daring goal to help smart nature, the more likes watching it on youtube. dw documentary drones far away from the front lines and ukraine, increasingly striking crimea. and even moscow is the russian position, becoming more vulnerable. our russian is getting tired. the main question which is existing to the rest of society. that is why so low? why so know where is the great flushing knobby, which was described many times one of the best and the, well, andrea felt off as a former deputy foreign minister of russia. he's my guest this week on complex own . joining us from moscow. how much should the west be concerned about putting, closing up with north korea is putting out of options, of course, that that is

a venture that is essentially the nuclear war on korean peninsula. and with more evidence of russian atrocities in ukraine who will be held accountable. andre fail door of welcome to complex down into investigations by that you wouldn't have been documenting further evidence of russian war crimes and ukraine, including wilful killings. attacks on civilians, unlawful confinement, torture, rape force transferred, and just the port ations of children. when you were on this program last year, you were asked if you were personally ashamed of what russian soldiers are doing to civilians in ukraine. you said that you didn't have a real picture of what was going on with the picture of brutality now becoming even clearer. are you ashamed as well? it's more as well. it's a serious war. and of course, there are some cases which can be considered as i remember that. but it's was

unfortunate say this will allow us to, to long now it's $572.00 bags. and the problem is that this war is becoming more and more powerful. and uh, what is more than thoughts on that is clear understanding goes to both sides, the piece will last long, and that's why it's great additional providence, i mean, but the us but mister dar. but what about, what about the ukranian children taken to russia? for example, i mean keith says it has identified almost 20000. russia has refused to provide information about the children or even work with a neutral intermediaries such as the red cross to register and repatriate them. are those children last forever? no, no them up. last, there is a request for great inside to identify the children. we choose a be a return to their parents, etc, etc. but of course,

it's still the question which needs most probably outside of the systems. because the direct contacts between the rough and ukraine and now on the 0 level. and so we have face and goal is appropriate for this. and of course, this question is important for russia because of the decision of the international criminal criminal clark. and we would like to clarify this things, but russia has a sort of thing where she has been blocking that outside assistance, mr for field off. and in fact, as it's doing so, it is also targeting or appearing to target civilians and ukraine, schools, markets residences. the united nation saying that those attacks have been indiscriminate and disproportionate. and in fact, after an official visit to ukraine this month, the you in special rep, a tour on torture, said that russia's armed aggression is becoming synonymous with torture and other in humane cruelty st. quote,

these grievous acts appear neither random nor incidental, but rather orchestrated as part of a state policy to intimidate and still fear, punish, and extract information and concessions. who should be held accountable for these grievous acts? oh, this is a very hot question because uh, what is appropriate today. the problem today is uh that, uh, the russian army is in defense position. russ allow me a cannot to stop its older offensive operation. and this was the point. the key point is to increase strikes on ukraine with messiahs, with drones, et cetera. and of course, a says kind of strikes will damage both civilian and transport them for such a business and will cost additional. i guess this is

especially, i think it will be a reasonable in the coming couple of months because of the war is now turning in more into position war and strikes besides, price will be in the main, the main element of the war. but we're talking here about accountability, accountability for what the un describes as a parent, disregard for civilian harm and suffering. what about accountability right at the top? what about putting there's an icy see investigation and arrest warrant for war crimes already issued, including for both bruton and russia's children's commissioner, accusing them of personal responsibility for the abductions of children from ukraine. does anyone care? uh, is the russia, the french speaking? no one gets too much and then the rest is ignoring the warrant, binds and there's no criminal court. and though of course, we can didn't swim to south africa to break something because of this war. and now

that doesn't make world about this warrens without a mania which will rectify rome, states. but inside russ um there is no such kind of feelings. advice is guilty or i'd like to come back to accountability. but 1st, let's talk a little bit about more about ukraine's counter offensive. the latest attacks in russian occupied crimea in the port of sylvester pole, appears to be the largest on the russians, lexi fleet, to base, and the 1st known strike on a russian submarine in the conflict. ukraine is trying to cut off russian troops from supply lines. russian troops are becoming more vulnerable here, aren't they? oh, the question is really simple. what's going on there? i can tell you that the, the biggest problem for us today is that russia is in defense. and uh, this influence on many political decisions here as well as me,

is that this is for us. the problem is that the ukraine are easily receiving a new effective weapons. and so best of them, well then sort of this some way in november. don't our smith's house will come through grade. i see no profits for this. this is from my assessment for you on the way. then of course, uh this is uh, making a kremlin much more nervous because this right uh, touching up on the crimea, but the function of different parts of the roster into the must go drones that that's a must go nearly every day. it must go more storage in the labor day. so this is changing the nature. and the problem is the restaurant can also, so it's kind of a challenge not by offensive population on the ground, but only with the heavy. so if you have some pro telegram channels raising concerns

over the ukranian counter offensive describing a difficult situation at the front of successful attacks in crimea, there are below to russia in the past days. ukraine also saying that it has to be taken villages around box moot. how are these moves viewed inside washer? does the general public share of them at all? no general public here. but of course, official propaganda is very effective here, saying that everything is okay that there's no damage for us, etc, etc. reality is that uh, the main question which is existing because the rest of society today is why so low? what so know where is the great spot from robbie which was described many times one of the best in the world. and of course uh if uh, officially of course that is a position then you create an offensive is a big failure. but i know also a point of view from my credit and colleagues was saying, no, yes,

we need to reach too much, but we stopped the russian army movie follow on the right of the rush to last and you should be. so what you claim, it's the best, the, the bestest, understand how to that next year. if, if the russians are asking why so long, you know, what do they also think when they're hearing and seeing more drones strikes inside russia itself, including in moscow where there are reports of drones, frequently causing flight delays and even damage that must be unsettling to civilians isn't it? of course uh is makes less than sealants, uh much more than others. uh, 1st of all because of the goal and effect, including uh, effects um what's the most good reason that is nearly every day? the lights on the slides in the morning from all of the most cool app. lots. of course it's creates a problem. it's, it's, it's great. the question is declare great, great. so, so what questions concerning our defense?

our minds seem to solve defense and many people asking about uh, how will we, how we should think about specific it will be secure within the future. also one of the top questions which is still on the answer is a number of the losses of fresh nami in the region. in the, in the conflict and the minister of defense is keeping it as a be a secret. but when we look at the general philosophy, i mean president learners allows, he has described the strikes as just and fair and a way to bring the war home to russia. does he have a point putting, invaded his country in a war of choice? uh, excuse to assist you excuse to assist you and the cost of for the rest of the citizens . fried, for example, against most go is in some cases much more important density based on the front

line. yes, this is, this is a question. this is a question and the problem is that russia officially is look, considering this, it placement as a war against a crazy form of it's called special to be a 3. this is a kind of funny story because a specimen separation which is which we are using, given supersonic themselves, looks much more as a rule and uh, from this point of view uh some of the arguments on the rest of the tv on the roster mass media that uh, it's not the war. if you great, which is in war with lots of a compressor, is what officially the ross is nothing. what was the great? let's talk a little bit more about the stifling of free speech and the sense because honestly, it has reported some 20000 people in russia have been the target of repressive laws to suppress the country's anti war movement. a sign of desperation from the kremlin

concerned about the ascent, especially with the elections approaching next year. i mean, because if they can't build support for the war, crushed assent. is that what this is a you all right? good, very well. a lot of legislative x that have been adopted in less. yeah. and i know, for example, in florida agents and plus i'd love to see what before was it was thought that uh, of course, uh, there are a lot of cases when uh, people on with allowed to express their opinion against me directly with this. and this is what is the control over the mass media? this is what it's deeper than that, is that because i mean the united nations in a recent report just released this week describe the systemic crack down on civil society. there are these reports of a so called re awakening of totalitarian instincts and russian society with people in forming on each other like in the stall in era. the opposition, of course,

has silenced jail during exile. what kind of russian society do you think emerges from this war? the 1st of all, i would like to say that political, a position to 14 is simply thought that at this price, there is no political opposition for any more us. and i don't think that they will be it's not possible in this current situation concerning the coming presidential elections, which might took place in march next year. uh, i see, roberts, i see no problems. the problem is only to know because as far as i know, some what many people are saying that in this situation that they, they simply don't want to go and vote. so they, they can, they will not say the say, again, support in oregon as well. but they will just trying to express their point of view of buying on vote. but as i said, oh, i see absolutely no problems for putting to be there that's in the spring next. the

eps no problem. let's talk a little bit more about opposition and i'd like to turn to wagner boss, you've got any per goshen who was able to march a column of tanks within miles of moscow till about a dozen russian airmen. coal rushes, stated reasons for invading ukraine falls. he has this sort of coltish following, and it's thought support from both the public and inside the military. and then his plane falls out of the sky. do you think that was an accident? the best of it? i think that this was the next it then. i knew this man for many years. i bought the i would like to stress, that's what has happened is very interesting at your in case you guys of appearance. he never said that he wants to change the address then what was his quote and i spoke with the wrong with my offence from one that is to

change minutes is presence in ukraine to understand. she wanted me to recommend swans to stand, that it's a new modem type of war, the war which is totally different from the images of the 2nd world war. and uh, and that's why he was accusing 1st of all, uh, minutes or come on to minutes of defense ahead of the general stuff as small capable to understand that because of the model. and of course, we have some serious national conflicts. and with that number of the people in russian at least. uh so uh, definitely i don't think it was accidental because even the fact that it has happened just 2 months, 62 months of the statements, the state. so it is, does the expect people you think to believe that it was just a coincidence that months after staging that uprising he,

he dropped out his plane dropped out of the sky. or is this really what putting wants them to believe exactly the opposite? that put in order to stuff, and it's as you easy, it is, you can see there was no, any kind of special reaction from cramming that's consulting services and that's all. and in my less and less media, this case is nearly forgot to me. now it comes with a sense of what, but it's not forgotten for the kremlin, as i think, as i mean, they've given regional governors the authority now to establish paramilitary units, which could have a role not only in defending borders, but also attacks from insurgents and the kremlin groups or internal descent, it's just one of a number of restrictive steps from the kremlin that appears aimed at preventing another incident like from ocean's wagner uprising is the kremlin, afraid that a figure similar to foreclosure, that might emerge? i don't think so because then why would it take those steps?

yeah. okay, so 1st of all the recording was effect. locksmith was effective, it was a real force. well, agreed force with the real specialist with that. and what is more important? a lot off. really 3, what overly, but by that binds have been on the side of the garden. so there was a link between the big boss and ministry. this link is nothing existing anymore with any other product, so the permits are units, etc, etc. so the main problem that's, that days was link between but it was and possibly meet 3 was also in sites is 5 called to me is called limited tri price is going go now itself existing. so it's not gonna be then just for kremlin. uh, but uh, in the what it was that grades and decorating this as groups owned in the regions

like belle grove, etc, them upgrade things, i mean, most going, usually regions know let's talk a little bit more about russia's role in the world worlds because it just rolls out the red carpet for a week long visit with north korea's kim jong on it's thought that came either has already or could demand technology that could improve the range of his missiles for nuclear weapons or russian satellite and submarine secrets. what does put in want of is to say very shortly. uh with uh, was kim gibbs visits. i know those claudia, very good for many, many years. uh, in the face of the game. uh, she is receiving a very good constant troublemaker. so the west, mainly for united states for japan, which can be useful very, very useful in the russian foreign policy. but generally a viable nation. is that a, as so many,

many years to do is a base in case of policy on the, on the understanding is that the world should fall. oh, he's rude, but most let us listen. what the world is concerned about, what the world is concerned about though we have to bring it back to that is, is that there might be an arm's deal that comes out of this. russia has gone out of its way to publicize kim's visit dropping repeated hints about the prospect of military cooperation with north korea. for example, russia's defense minister showing who told russian media that moscow is discussing joint and military exercises with north korea. yes, it does not have better cards to play right now than further cozying up with a global parias state. but to it, in some areas, this is quite effective. uh nuclear. uh, 1st of all, i'm not going to be a is a nuclear states that have nuclear weapons of color, legal,

nuclear weapons. it's an illegal program. yes. but, but i've been many times in those korea, so i know it. uh so uh, concerning uh mr. exercises. yes. i am sure the lexia will have fran gomez for exercises rustic try and then of career. it's a new blog and you kind before the onset, which is now full. and of course, it's a, 1st of all, it's not against you, but it says, it says it's a little fresh on japan and united states. it's all this soviet, but russia has previously supported international sanctions against north korea for it's unlawful nuclear weapons program. do i hear you correctly? are you saying that that does not mean anything to russia anymore? yes, you're correct, russell. forget about this. isn't this a dangerous game that putting this play? it's a, it's the, you're talking about the, the destabilization of,

of the nuclear balance in asia and beyond. yes, there was at least because i came the currently there. i knew his father, i use his grandfather, came is in such a way he's i'm predictable, but at the same time, no rush, i have some fools going thing. some can. of course the that is event as a venture of the nuclear war on korean peninsula. so it's, it's rarely, it's rare to see which is, which was rarity as well for last the as well. so i know it's also thought that an arm seal between russia and north korea could backfire south korea has a big stock pile of more advanced weapons. it might be convinced to give them directly to ukraine rather than just back filling us weapons. being given to keep. it hasn't given to you've arm so far out of fear that it could prompt moscow to aid p on gang. is that even any part of the calculus from moscow?

oh, okay, i'm so from the uh, from uh, south korea is already going to ukraine wyatt countries. it's not the secret of cost of $10.00 single go, that's essential. monroe. and i know many people in south korea, juan now saying that social security issues have its own nuclear weapons as it comes to balance. yes, it's raising, it's raising cents. it's raising cents. but it's a big game. it's a big game, a set. it's a game which is, which would be a little bit separated from ukraine case. it's a big game and a specific region. and that's, that's the main thing is about and not the se, or what is pollutants and game. what does this ends game more broadly speaking, and also specifically in ukraine? because if we just look at the figures, i mean, the un estimates that since the invasion began in february last year, nearly $30000.00 civilians having killed thousands of russian soldiers. what can he

still hope to achieve? he hopes to accuse me to go out old. uh, it depends on what we can call the the 31st of all when it comes to the g. uh, mr. v. 3, it is nearly impossible. uh, to change this is i sent the roster needs to change his presidency and to turn into a total most of strikes all over the grade. this don't ever think what this, what does existing, but of course, this will lead immediately to the much more as the leasing process, and much more appropriate for us and citizens, for economy, etc, etc. that's why that is still a hope in moscow is that a ukraine will not be capable to uh, the last long in this war. rest of course has much more reserves. but of my

personal point of view, we are now facing a very clear as a base and that uh that, uh that, uh the wall will it will serve. yes, definitely. you know, put in for many years. do you see anything that could bring him to the negotiating table? what could bring russia to the negotiating table at this stage? absolutely not. uh, what it is, a person who will have it on the back. if you decided to do something, he will go to them for him and its position of many aspects in russia. negotiations isn't the with what you just said in mind, there are many who are predicting that the russian federation will ultimately collapse because of putin's war and ukraine. you served as deputy foreign minister in the early ninety's. you've witnessed 1st hands the collapse of the soviet union

. do you share that view? is russia no. collab would? no russians. okay. didn't full collapse. russ's uh, heading thoughts. you problems no problems. but um, you should on the fence one think a lot of the russian nation is very much consolidated because they see food in the as a personal crusade restaurant from possible mates all glass and from it that from your credit and etc, etc. and this is in the minds of people and put people, a lot of people met a man and people believe and 14 believe important as assessment will save russia from the aggressive west for the rest of need to, etc, etc. and this will work, this will work for coming, the lessons that we have to leave it there. we have to leave it there. andre failed off out. thank you so much for joining us on conflicts and we appreciate your time . thanks. things that we should well the

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[000:00:00;00] the, this is the domain is live from the land, another c 5, and they're going to carry a bass after 2 days of attacks from mazda by john and scores of casualties estimate our medium separate system. the dispute region say they laid down their weapons for peace talks. also on the program. ukrainian president full of dim or zalinski and dressed as a special session of the united nations security council. calling for russia to be stripped of its veto power. the