to 25 years ago, the world began to google and our relationship to information and to each other hasn't been the same sets. in 1998 history had ended then much of the world was ready to party. like it was 1999. google ended the error of the encyclopedia at the digital. don't want a big data tonight, 25 years of googling a search engine that now has. it's doing a lot of soul searching. i bring golf and berlin. this is the day the my favorite google product would be the search engine because i use it so much. i google things every day, 50 to a 100 times a day on questions about scroll work, tests if anything, with pets, youtube social media, google maps. i'll say google docs for my essays and my homework recently.

i just google this place. i think that google is change the world change the way we talk with people and how we get things done. i wish i would have invested that i'm the yahoo 1st came up people, they've been say golf and now you look at google. it will be like also coming up after either by john one control and they're going to tell her a box of the exodus of ethnic armenians. it shows no sign of, of a little jane is routing. we thought we'd run to the forest to wait until the situation come down as. so we were told that we had to escape. i ran without taking anything of just my family with duck. if you were to our viewers watching on tv as in the united states into all of you around the world. welcome. we begin today, marking a birthday. google is 25 years old. the company name is now part of our global

lingo. when you search for information online, you simply, you know, if you google it, the company's founders, larry page and sergei brand are among the richest people in the world. now, their success story was written during what is referred to as the wild west of the internet, the 1st decade of the century. hi, new has come and gone for high tech, but non for the sectors power and prophets. there are concerns over google, maintaining a monopoly on the market and that it is used as a manipulates, the search results to maximize ad revenue. there are also varies over intellectual property rights, as well as the right deprives. my 1st guest is one of the world's authorities. on the rise of google and what the search engine has done to media, as well as mankind in 2009 his book. what with google do forever leads him to an error in which people entrusted the search engine with their data. and their hopes for the future. this hopeful author is jeff jarvis, he's a professor of journalist innovation at the city university of new york. jeff,

it's good to have you back on the program. you know, we've talked countless times over the years about google social media. the internet, i want us to go back to 2014. i want you to take a listen to what you said here on dw, about google, and what the search engine meant for our notion of books take a list. so i think that we treat the book as to wholly we think that the form it has is the form. it must always have, but it's a fairly recent phenomenon. what could a book be now? a book can now be a conversation. a book can be corrected and updated a book can be collaborative and bring in other other other people. a book can link out to other information and people can link directly to the ideas within a book. the form of the books can be updated and magnificent ways, and i don't think we've yet begun to experiment with the book being treated as hopefully would you say the same thing today, jeff?

no, and in fact i have a new book out called the gutenberg parenthesis and it's i, we can't, i say i was wrong and i quote wonderful it bear who echo off i may just for a 2nd. he said the book is like the spoon, scissors. the hammer, the wheels once invented it cannot be improved, and i think echo was right and i was not, you know, you have been somewhat criticized for maybe drinking the koolaid of the time and not even the believing that google and co would always do their, their the right thing is that a valid a description of, of where you just of the zeitgeist of the, of the time. so, i think that google's still pleased to be a good company all at all. i'm disappointed they keep telling you more products than they did. they say, i think their, their decisions, for example, pulling out of china have been all in all i think proper. but there is a different method for us that comes not from google,

but from eagle on mosque. and allowing too much of our public discourse to be centralized in one company that can be taken over by a nihilistic nurses. as such as him tells us that we need to be true or to the essence of the internet in the future. that is to say more open, distributed uh, federated, this is the ethic of the internet to things are, are equal across the whole net. and i think google has held fairly true to that aspect of facebook less so and twitter under busk not at all. the european union is where google encountered the strongest head winds. i mean, when it comes to new data privacy, anti trust regulations, does your, in your opinion deserve credit for showing us all signs of this brave new i tech world of mean? did europe tell the world stop being got over google? it's maybe too much. so i think uh it under a i, we now see that the,

the e c has said that they want to be known for regulate a i that seems odd to be to position your up more as a regulator then as a creator back of the day i often heard european executives and especially people from government, lamenting the europe didn't have its own google in france tried to start one of 1 point one i've always said is that europe needs to invest more and just complaining and just regularly is not. i think a fulsome strategy for the future. but 2 things i'd like for you to consider on this to birthday our relationships, the books and our relationship to knowledge and information. and i have a personal library, but in my home, i still buy books. what about you or you can see behind me, i have a lot of books, books about books, have you just written the book about books and, and studying books through their history. from gutenberg, let's be clear that movable type was also done in china and korea before gutenberg

. but from gutenberg all and in that time it's an amazing history. and, and i wanted to look into gutenberg parenthesis, to the lessons we could learn for our entry into the age of print, as we now leave it as not to say the print dies. so it might, for newspapers and magazines, me, it's not to say we forget the lessons of print, but it is to say that we, i think we have time. it took a while for the book to be the books that we know now it took a while for there to be tremendous innovation with printing. that is to say the novels that are gone to some of the essay with montana and the creation of the newspaper. it took up the other century longer to get the copyright, the business model. that's a very long timeline for, for culture. and we're at the very beginning of whatever the heck internet culture is and whatever it is, what we make it. you recently wrote, jeff, that, that the book has many meanings. um you said that books are companions so that we are not alone there. consider that and consider that the us surgeon general earlier

this year pointing to social media, said that there is a national epidemic of loneliness to contend with. how do you square that, sir? i'm working on a next book about the internet and in that i did a lot of reading of the research of what we know about our interaction with social media and with the internet as a whole. and media have been engaged in great measure. it was in a complete moral panic about the internet. media don't really admit that the internet is a competitor and they don't really know what to do with it. and so we see a lot of coverage, especially since the 2000 election in the 2016 election in the us and of the u. k. a. the results they're trying to blame the ills of society on this new thing. the internet that's naive. it's wrong and i think we have to have more faith in ourselves and in our children, going back to the history of books. people complain that that the people were gonna

spend too much time reading books and part of them the novels were, were believed to be corrupt in the morals of women and children. and we've gone through these moral panics with technologies again and again and again. and again, and we need to learn at some point that we figure it out or we have to have some faith in ourselves. i've got less than a minute left, but i want to ask you, um, we'll google in your opinion, see a 50th birthday i don't know. i think that none of these companies or institutions are forever. copyright was invented at some point. editing and publishing were institutions that were invented at some point. what i tell my journalism students today is when it is up to them to reconsider these institutions, which ones should be reinvented, re made or replaced? yeah, i like the 3 ours they are. jeff jarvis is always good talking with you. excellent analysis can just leave you a either by john says that it has arrested

a former leader of the in the going to cover black region as he was trying to enter armenia. reuben bardon is a billionaire who made most of his fortune in russia is detained and comes in the week. that's almost a quarter of new going to cover bucks ethnic r median population fleet. 47000 people, leaving their homes and their lives by streams of cars continue to arrive at the armenian border. some of them have been waiting in line for days to reach safety. as a by jones military take a bit of the break way region is nicole new camera, back to last week prompted thousands of estimate communions to leave the homes and their lives behind them. marguerite, dyslexia, and is one of them. she and her family of 12 that the village is soonest. they

heard the sounds of messiah nearby crystal. they've taken refuge in this hotel in the army and bowed to town. of course it has become a makeshift shelter. 6 dark for all my shoes, but the only thing that happened all of a sudden the nobody expected it. so there was a no show bundle and we were bummed at night because we didn't know where to go. logs in is valley. we thought we'd run to the forest to wait until the situation come down. so we were told that we had to escape. i ran without taking anything of just my family. my duck is usually an issue. one is jeff, margarita and her family suffered during a 9 months long blockade imposed by the as the by johnny government. last december, the enclave was cut off from the outside world. they were critical shortages of food to medicine. a new login issue. right now.

we have no flower new gain. if they spell sugar, no food and nibbled on coffee. i had no mood for my grandkids. a lot going. nothing . well, how can one live like that? most of the refugees found shelter here in gorgeous, just 30 kilometers away from that homeland as a by john has promised to guarantee the safety of s, nicole medians. however, they will agree to assist. they have no choice but to leave possibly forever. right? when they go to washington, now in bringing law, i didn't touch, but she's a visiting fellow in the center of the united states in europe, at the brookings institution, as well as a global opinions con, calling just as the washington post and a senior policy fellow and the european council on foreign relations. it's good to have you on the program to night. let me get your opinion just on the,

on the numbers we've seen in between about a 3rd of the ethnic armenian population of newborn. i will call her back leave this week. do you think either by john, whoever welcomed him back one day or i think there is too much bad blood between the 2 communities and really 3 wars that are being flawed. since the breakup of the soviet union, i cannot imagine armenians willing to go back, feeling safe enough to go back and live under us every room in the same way uh movies. 30 years ago have flood armenian territories. i mean, old territories of this layers and layers of mutual a historic claims. and i'm really fairly well documented. there's 2 of atrocities that have taken out both sides. so this big practically made living together very difficult. you say there's plenty of blame to go around. the armenian

population of newborn no power box is suffering this time, but a series they've suffered in this conflict in the past. i'm wondering how are these current events? how are they being viewed in either by john? as i said, also be telling me is not the public is not too focused on the to mandatory diag mansion rather it seen more as the restoration of also be john sovereignty. because remember that another new car about is technically inside also based on its feet in a non median dominated armenian populated enclave during the soviet times. armenians and not the res lived there together even though armenians for the majority. and then later on, there is left in the ninety's how to be even the, during the fighting between the 2 nations. and now it's been our medium to be over

the past 30 years. but of course, you know, for the republic a, there's where there's been a strong beach of nationalism since the 2020 war of the refrain is the car about is also be john. that this is the restoration of also beaten on sovereignty. talk to me about what, what has changed in either by john to put the country and a strong position that it didn't have, as you said in the 19 ninety's when armine approved strong, as well as there is now an incredible as to which we are in power in between these 2 countries, which is the reverse of what it was during the breakup of the soviet union. army was backed by russia and had uh, i was gonna be, john was distracted for in disarray. and in the ninety's, armenians were able to capture. so when you're there of orders, soviet porters, i should say, and lead to a number of refugee flows. but now we have

a reverse situation also be john has grown militarily, very strong. it gets along with russia, but is strongly backed by turkey in the military economy partnership. that's not like any, say, a historically, even though there's like a tennessee between these 2 countries. a, there has never been this level of unity. 2020 more. it was a direct support from turkey, and of course, you know, at present or no one makes no secrets. office support for a i have a president on here in azerbaijan. but beyond that, observation has a good relations with his real, relatively good relations with the you, because it has stepped in as an alternative energy source of since the beginning of the war and ukraine to replace the russian gas in a sense. obviously not all of it,

but it's significant enough that you uh the deuce of being causing us to be john as an alternative energy partner while you present it doesn't mean holding talks between song show as the talks between us or be john in our media. the issue that we've seen now over this recent episode is how i don't know coverage if the union has because it has the goals for germany from united states, from european meters, for there to be a no entry solution to the issue. if not, there are no car about fully non opposite beat on to not secret military ways settle this issue. but it seems like you p leverage over us are beautiful and it's actually rather slim. and i'd like to get your take then on. what do you think turkey is seeing when it looks at this situation and when it looks at this

unprecedented geopolitical power equation that is before it. now what do you think it was officially a heir to one what's he think as well? i think that there is the now conditional support for us of age as a defacto position. i think turkey would also like to normalize relations with armenia and open its order, but not at the expense of its relations without the beach on. in other words, the father based on is to pursue peace. turkey goes along with that and might like it. but if they want to pursue war, uh they will support that option too. so truly is position is just unconditionally linked to the re position with the broader strategic level. they seem to want the restoration of trade, which opens up the turkish trades into central asia

and, and all the way to the rest of asia. this is of course your middle inquiry door that already wants sees as an alternative to other routes that are bypassing turkey as sort of turkey's is word extension. but that requires the normalization of ties between turkey and our media. and it's just not clear at this point of whether or not the tensions between the 2 countries between also based on at armenia is, is going to end with this episode, another on a carbo or continue in the next few months. but let me just ask you, we've got about 30 seconds left, you know, considering the just the power structure right now in the region. i mean, how likely is that we can see this conflict? no. blaze out into a bigger more. do you think that's even possible now,

or i think dodge, because this is a call to service, but we can never be certain. we have to be cautious about the worst case scenario. so this is really the time to push the page on and armenia in to the back to the negotiating table to sign a piece deal. this more has to end here because now both countries have their sovereign territory and they should now sign a piece you and you're can be the architecture of that. and we will see if it happens, it could be in brussels as well. i didn't touch bosh, it's good to have you with that tonight. we appreciate excellent analysis on this situation. thank you. thank you. 6 young people from portugal are taking all of the countries of the european union and several others to court these activists, these plaintiffs, or between the ages of 11 and 24. they filed a case with the european court of human rights and they are accusing the countries

of inaction on global warming. and thus they say violating their fundamental rights . the activists and their supporters are in strossberg, where the hearing opened today. 6 young people and the lawyers against the 2 countries, they say simply on doing enough to stop global warming. these activists have come describe bulk to all use of the climate policies of oil, the e u. member states, as well as britain, switzerland, norway tacky, and russia. a so inadequate the violating that human rights. today's case is about the young. this is about the place that they are paying for the failure of states to tackle the claimant's emergency. this is about the home that they will suffer during their life times unless states step up to their responsibilities. a group who range in age from 11 to 24 were

moved to bring that case by the huge wildfires. and then they took portugal back in 2017. more than a 100 people died with scientists and climate change had made the flies was. now, the activists of hoping the european quote of human rights to false governments to drastic may accelerate the efforts to combat global warming. the when is warned, current targets put the world on cost, the catastrophic climate breakdown, sped, what i expect from government all the time while i'm at the shop for something that is real is a, this is a main problem because it's so infringing on our human rights most the day, 2 months, i declare a full that can happen. they'll need to persuade the quotes the judges of the case with lawyers for the defending governments. arguing the 6 young active as having proved a direct link between the homes. they say they've suffered and that climate policies would need to be as well as the board charge. he's covering the story force dozens

of lawyers in the court room as the european court of human rights starts to hear. the legal arguments in this one is where the a landmark case brought by these young people age between 11 and 24 and supported by the non profit group, the global legal action network. now, these young people are coming to court with arguments upside. what they say is a risk to their health promotion prompted by climate change. because they say wildfires in portugal they argue are directly caused by climate change. they're talking about risks to their health. for example, they from arguments about respect, retreat illnesses, of disruption, to their sleep. and they say that this is impacting on their right to life, which has been trained in the european convention on human rights. but they're also breeding an argument about discrimination because they say, as children and young people, very generation is particularly affected by the impacts of climate change, or after this hearing judges, i think you're being court of human rights will deliberate. we don't have an exact

time later on when they will come to a decision, but it's likely or expected, at least that could be sometime in the 1st half of 2024. if the court sites with the complainants with these young people, the countries involved could be non basic court ordered to rapidly accelerate their progress toward slashing emissions. but there is quite a lot of legal hurdles to jump before guessing they're the countries involved have been arguing not only that they are taking. ready action against climate change, but also they're bringing a lot of technical legal arguments. for example, if i, whether or not the court has the appropriate or right jurisdiction to actually hear this case. and one thing they're bringing off is that usually for a case to reach the working court of human rights, national legal remedies would have had to be exhausted. so complaints would have had to bring a court to their national jurisdiction that before it would get to this top court in strasburg, that's not happens in this case. so it will of course,

be down to judges to decide age. since the complainant's pro based case of back in 2020, and since they were inspired to do so by those wild fires in portugal in 2017 of course we've seen many more wild fires across europe and also other incidents of extreme weather for example, floods. so that certainly has to go some way to focusing governments mines in terms of addressing climate change. but certainly those activities, some court today and many others would say, but e governments simply have not yet done enough. so there's a bunch of reporting there. the day is almost done, the conversation continues on line and remember whatever happens between now and then, tomorrow is another day we'll see you then everybody the

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