shipped the information in to each other hasn't been the same sense. in 1998 history had ended and much of the world was ready to party like it was 1999. google ended the error of the encyclopedia after digital don't want a big data. tonight, 25 years of googling a search engine that now has it's doing a lot of soul searching. i bring golf and berlin. this is the day the my favorite google product would be the search engine because i use it so much. i google things every day, 50 to a 100 times a day on questions about school work tests, if anything, with pets, uh, youtube, social media, google maps i would say google docs for my essays and my homework. recently. i just googled this place. i think that google is change the world change the way we

talk with people and how we get things done. i wish i would have invested that i'm a bad, well yeah. who 1st came up, people, they didn't say go, but now you look at google. there would be like oh say coming up after either by john one control the camera block or the exodus of ethnic are medians. it shows no sign of, of a router. we thought we'd run to the forest to wait until the situation come down. as we were told that we had to escape, i ran without taking anything of just my family with duck every one to our viewers watching on cbs in the united states into all of you around the world. welcome. we begin today, marking a birthday. google is 25 years old. the company name is now part of our global lingo. when you search for information online, you simply, you know what, you google it. the company's founders,

larry page and sergei brand are among the richest people in the world. now they are success story was written during what is referred to as the wild west of the internet, the 1st decade of the century. hi, new is coming. gone for high tech, but non for the sectors power and prophets. there are concerns over google, maintaining a monopoly on the market and that it is used as a manipulates, the search results to maximize ad revenue. there are also varies over intellectual property rights, as well as the right deprives of my 1st guest is one of the world's authorities on the rise of google and what the search engine has done to media as well as mankind in 2009, his book what with google do forever leads him to an error in which people entrusted the search engine with their data and their hopes for the future. this hopeful author is jeff jarvis, he's a professor of journalist innovation at the city university of new york. jeff, it's good to have you back on the program. you know,

we've talked countless times over the years about google social media of the internet. i want us to go back to 2014. i want you to take a listen to what you said here on dw, about google, and what the search engine meant for our notion of books take a list. so i think that we treat the book as to wholly. we think that the form it has is the form it must always have, but it's a fairly recent phenomenon. what kind of book be now a book can now be a conversation. a book can be corrected and updated a book can be collaborative and bring in other other other people. a book can link out other information and people can link directly to the ideas within a book. the form of the book can be updated and magnificent ways, and i don't think we've yet begun to experiment with the book being treated as hopefully would you say the same thing today, jeff? no, and in fact i have a new book out called the gutenberg parenthesis and it's i,

we can't, i say i was wrong and i quote wonderful umberto eco. if i may just for a 2nd, he said the book is like the spoon, scissors, the hammer, the wheels once invented it cannot be improved. that i think echo was right. and i was not, you know, you have been somewhat criticized for maybe drinking the koolaid of the time and not even the believing that google and co would always do the, the, the right thing. is that a valid a description of, of where you just of the zeitgeist of the, of the time? so, i think that google's still claims to be a good company all at all. i'm disappointed they keep telling you more products than they are. they say, i think their, their decisions, for example, pulling out of china have been all in all i think proper. but there is a different lesson for us that comes not from google, but for milan mosque. and allowing too much of our public discourse to be

centralized in one company that could be taken over by a nihilistic nurses, as such as him tells us that we need to be true or to the essence of the internet and the future. that is to say more open distributed. uh, federated uh is the ethic of the internet. the things are, are equal across the whole net. and i think google has held fairly true to that aspect of facebook less so and twitter under buske, not of all the european union is we're google encountered the strongest head winds . i mean, when it comes to new data privacy, anti trust regulations, does your, in your opinion deserve credit for showing us all signs of this brave new i tech world of meaning in europe until the world stopped being got over google? it's maybe too much. so i think it under a i, we now see that the, the e c has said that they want to be known for regulated a i,

it seems odd to be to position your up more as a regulator then as a creator back of the day i often heard european executives and especially people from government, lamenting the europe didn't have its own google in france tried to start one of 1 point, one of always said, is that europe needs to invest more and just complaining and just regularly is not . i think a full some strategy for the future. but 2 things i'd like for you to consider on this to birthday our relationships, the books and our relationship to knowledge and information. and i have a personal library, but in my home i still buy books. what about you or are you can see behind me, i have a lot of books, books about books having just written the book about books and, and studying books through their history. from gutenberg, let's be clear that movable type was also got in china and korea before gutenberg. but from gutenberg, all and in that time it's an amazing history. and,

and i wanted to look at the gutenberg parenthesis to the lessons we could learn for our entry into the age of print, as we now leave it as not to say the print dies. so it might, for newspapers and magazines, me, it's not to say we forget the lessons of print, but it is to say that we, i think we have time, it took a while for the book to be the book. so we know now it took a while for there to be tremendous innovation with printing. that is to say the novels that are bound to some the essay with one pain in the creation of the newspaper. it took another century longer to get the copyright, the business model. that's a very long timeline for print culture. and we're at the very beginning of whatever the heck internet culture is, whatever it is, what we make it. you recently wrote jeff, that, that the book has many meanings. um you said that books are companions so that we are not alone there. consider that and consider that the us surgeon general earlier this year pointing to social media, said that there is

a national epidemic of loneliness to contend with. how do you square that, sir? as i'm working on a next book about the internet and in that i did a lot of reading of the research of what we know about our interaction with social media and with the internet as a whole. and media have been engaged in great measure. it will, in a complete moral panic about the internet. media don't really admit that the internet as a competitor and they don't really know what to do with it. and so we see a lot of coverage, especially since the 2000 election in the 2016 election in the us and of the u. k. and the results they're trying to blame the ills of society on this new thing. the internet that's naive, it's wrong. and i think we have to have more faith in ourselves. and in our children, going back to the history of books. people complained that that the people were going to spend too much time reading books in front of them. the novels were

believed to be corrupt in the morals of women and children. and we've gone through these moral panics with technologies again and again and again and again. and we need to learn at some point that we figure it out or we have to have some faith in ourselves. i've got less than a minute left, but i want to ask you, um, we'll google in your opinion, see a 50th birthday i don't know. i think that none of these companies or institutions are forever, copyright was invented at some point. editing and publishing were institutions that were invented at some point. what i tell my journalism students today is that it is up to them to reconsider these institutions, which ones should be reinvented, re made or replaced. yeah, i like the 3 are there, jeff jarvis is always good talking with you. excellent analysis. good to see. thank you. either by song says that it has a rest of the, a former leader of the in the going to call her back region as he was trying to

enter armenia. reuben bar dungeon is a billionaire who made most of his fortune in russia is detained. been comes in the week, that's almost a quarter of a corner cupboard box ethnic armenian population fleet, 47000 people, leaving their homes and their lives by streams of cars continue to arrive at the army in buddha. some of them have been waiting in line for days to reach safety as a by jones military take a bit of the break way. region is not going to camera back to last week. prompted thousands of estimate communions to leave the homes and their lives behind them. marguerite, dyslexia, and is one of them. she and her family of 12, that the village is soonest. they heard the sounds of messiah nearby crystal.

they've taken refuge in this hotel in the armenian buddha town. of course it has become a makeshift shelter. 6 docks for all my shoes, but the only thing that happens, all of a sudden the nobody expected it. so there was a no show bundle. and we were bummed at night because we didn't know where to go. logs in is valley. we thought we'd run to the forest to wait until the situation come down. so we were told that we had to escape. i ran without taking anything of just my family. my duck is usually issue one is jeff, margarita and her family suffered during a 9 months long blockade imposed by the as a by johnny government. last december, the enclave was cut off from the outside world that were critical shortages of food to medicine. a new login issue right now. we have no flower new log in. if they go sugar,

no food and never go through and i had no moved from my grandkids a lot going nothing. well, how can one live like that? most of the refugees found shelter here in gorgeous, just 30 kilometers away from that homeland as a by john has promised to guarantee the safety of s, nicole medians. however, we will agree to assist, they have no choice but to leave possibly forever. when they go to washington, now in bringing us law, i didn't touch, but she's a visiting fellow in the center of the united states in europe at the brookings institution, as well as a global opinions con, calling this stuff, the washington post and a senior policy fellow and the european council on foreign relations. it's good to have you on the program tonight. let me get your opinion just on the, on the numbers we've seen in between about a 3rd of the ethnic armenian population of newborn oak auerbach leave this week. do

you think either by john, whoever welcomed him back one day a. so i think there is too much bad blood between the 2 communities and really 3 wars that it'd be bought since the breakup of the soviet union. i cannot in on to armenians willing to go back, feeling safe enough to go back and live under us every room in the same way uh, movies. 30 years ago have flood armenian territories. i mean, old territories of this layers and layers of a mutual of historic claims. and i'm really fairly well documented history of atrocities that have taken out both sides. so this big practically made living together very difficult. yeah. you say there's plenty of blame to go around. the armenian population of newborn and car box is suffering

this time, but a series they've suffered in this conflict in the past. i'm wondering how are these current events? how are they being viewed in either by john? as i said, also be telling me is not the public is not too focused on the to mandatory dimension. rather it seen more as the restoration of also be john sovereignty. because remember that another new car, as well as technically inside, also based on its fee and the non median dominated armenian populated enclave during the soviet times. armenians and not the res lived there together even though our means for the majority. and then later on are there is left in the ninety's how to leave and the during the fighting between the 2 nations. and now it's been our medium to be over the past 30 years. but of course, you know, for the republic there's where there's been

a strong beach of nationalism since the 2020, more of the refrain is the car. but it's also be john, that this is the restoration of also beaten on sovereignty. talk to me about what, what has changed in either by john to put the country and a strong position that it didn't have, as you said in the 19 ninety's when armine approved stronger, as well as there is now an incredible as dimensionally are in power in between these 2 countries, which is the reverse of what it was during the breakup of the soviet union, army was backed by russia and had also be john was distracted for in the survey. and in the ninety's, armenians were able to capture some land. you know, there a board or soviet porters, i should say, and lead to a number of refugee fluids. but now we have a reverse situation also be john has grown militarily,

very strong. it gets along with russia, but is strongly backed by turkey in the military economy partnership. that's not like any, say, a historically, even though there's a snake, a tennessee between these 2 countries, there has never been this level of unity. 2020 more was a direct support from turkey, and of course, you know, at present or no one makes no secrets all to support for a i have a president on here in azerbaijan. but beyond that, observation has a good relations with his real, relatively good relations with the you, because it has stepped in as an alternative energy source of since the beginning of the war in ukraine to replace the russian gas in a sense. obviously not all of it,

but it's significant enough that you uh the deuce of being causing us to be john as an alternative energy partner. while you present it as being, holding talks between a strong show as being talks between positive b john and armenia. the issue that we've seen now over this recent episode is how i don't know, raise your p union has because it has the cost of germany from united states, from european meters, for there to be a no entry solution to the issue. if not, there are no car about holding. don also be john to not secret military ways to settle this issue. but it seems like you p leverage over us or beach and on. it's actually rather slim and i'd like to get your take then on. what do you think turkey is seeing when it looks at this situation and when it looks at this unprecedented geopolitical power equation that is before it. now what do you think

it was officially a heir to one what c? thank as well. i think that there is the conditional support for us of age as a defacto position. i think would also likes to normalize relations with armenia and open its order, but not at the expense of its relations without the beach. in other words, the father based on is to pursue peace. turkey goes along with that and might like it. but if they want to pursue war, uh, they will support that option too. so charlie is position is just unconditionally linked to the re position but, but on the broader strategic level, they seem to want the restoration of trade, which opens up the turkish trades into central asia

and, and all the way to the rest of asia. this is of course your middle core door that already wants sees as an alternative to other routes that are bypassing turn. key at sort of turkeys is word extension. a but that requires the normalization of ties between turkey and our media. and it's just not clear at this point of whether or not the tensions between the 2 countries between also based on an army near is, is going to end with this episode, another article rebel or continue in the next few months. but let me just ask, so we've got about 30 seconds left, you know, considering the just the power structure right now in the region. i mean, how likely is that we can see this conflict? no. blaze out into a bigger more. do you think that's even possible now? i think dodge, because this is a call to says we can never be certain. we have to be cautious about the worst case

scenario. so this is really the time to push the page on and armenia in to the back to the negotiating table to sign a piece deal. this more has to end here because now both countries have their sovereign territory and they should now sign a piece you and you're can be the architecture of that. and we will see if it happens, it could be in brussels as well. i didn't touch bosh, it's good to have you, but it's not. we appreciate excellent analysis on this situation. thank you. thank 6 young people from portugal are taking all of the countries of the european union and several others to court these activists, these plaintiffs, or between the ages of 11 and 24. they filed a case with the european court of human rights, and they are accusing the countries of inaction on global warming. and thus they

say violating their fundamental rights. the activision, their supporters are in strossberg, where the hearing opened today. 6 young people and the lawyers against 32 countries, they say simply on doing enough to stop global warming. these activists have come to strasbourg to argue that the climate policies of oil, the e, u. member states, as well as britain, switzerland, norway tacky, and russia, a so inadequate the violating that human rights. today's case is about the young. this is about the place that they are paying for the failure of states to tackle the claimant's emergency. it says about the homes that they will suffer during their life times unless these step up to their responsibilities. a group range and aid from $11.00 to $24.00 were moved to bring that case by the huge wildfires. and then they took portugal back in 2017. more

than a 100 people died with scientists and climate change have made the flies was. now the activists are hoping the european quote of human rights and false governments to drastic, may accelerate the efforts to come back. global warming the when is warned, current targets put the world on cost with catastrophic climate breakdown goose bed . what i expect from government all the time while i'm at the office on the thing that is real, is it? and this is a main problem because it's so infringing on our human right. it's mostly like 2 months. i declare a full that can happen. they'll need to persuade the quotes the judges of the case with lawyers from the defending governments, arguing the 6 young active as having proved a direct link between the homes. they say they've suffered and that climate policies use roseborough charge. he's covering the story force, or dozens of lawyers in the court room as the european court of human rights starts

to hear. the legal arguments in the 4 days where the a landmark case brought by these young people age between 11 and 24 and supported by the non profit group, the global legal action network. now, these young people are coming to court with arguments outside what they say is a risk to their health promotion prompted by climate change. because they say wildfires in portugal they argue are directly caused by climate change. they're talking about risks to their health. for example, they've brought arguments that, but we're still retreat illnesses of disruption to their sleep. and they say that this is impacting on their right to life, which has been trained in the european convention on human rights. but they're also bringing an argument about discrimination because they say, as children and young people, very generation is particularly affected by the impacts of climate change, or after this hearing judges, i think you're being court of human rights will deliberate. we don't have an exact time later on when they will come to a decision, but it's likely or expected,

at least that could be sometime in the 1st half of 2024. if the court sites with the complainants with these young people, the countries involved could be mandated, court ordered to rapidly accelerate their progress toward slashing emissions. but there is quite a lot of legal hurdles to jump before guessing they're the countries involved have been arguing not only that they are taking action against climate change, but also they're bringing a lot of technical legal arguments. for example, if i, whether or not the court has the appropriate or right jurisdiction to actually hear this case. and one thing they're bringing off is that usually for a case to reach the repeat court if human rights national legal remedies would have had to be exhausted. so complaints would have had to bring a court to their national jurisdiction that before it would get to this top court in strasburg, that's not happens in this case. so it will of course, be down to judges to decide age. since the complainant's bro, this case of back in 2020,

and since they were inspired to do so by those wild fires in portugal in 2017 of course we've seen many more wildfires across europe and also other incidents of extreme weather for example floods. so that certainly has to go some way to focusing governments mines in terms of addressing climate change. but certainly of those activists in court today and many others would say, but e governments simply have not yet done enough. so there's a bunch of reporting there, the day is almost done, the conversation continues on line and remember whatever happens between now and then, tomorrow is another day, we'll see you then everybody, the

a special edition of comfort zone with tim to baskin. this is the border crossing point from moldova into ukraine. the nearest fight to the con moment between ukraine and russia is roughly a 100 kilometers away. the big question dominates here, is where the mold dover is, is to put in the next target conflict. next on d, w. it's majesty is breathtaking. the mika lifeline

for southeast asia on its banks, fertile rice passes, feeding millions and splendid buddhist samples, mesmerizing tourists. witness a fascinating journey of discovery on the me con a through louse. in 45 minutes on d w. the change can be viewed as a natural conclusion of the 300 year old id be responsible for today's problem. and could they help us solve the enlightenment says,

progress is in our hands and that means so is request. it's up to us how significant of the beginning of the done and see the series of the great philosophers to our present and future. our series project in the item in some starts october 5th on d, w. the good peaceful as h a p is most of us sits right next door to ukraine and the searing, devastating conflict with no end in sight since february last year. the country of just 2 and a half 1000000 has been under the state of emergency wherever the fighting might spread to its own territory by accident or design to now the.