without freedom of the price and freedom of expression of what about parliamentary democracy till the situation is very serious. cutting as right as not only weapon is off and the guardians of truth dos. october 28th on d, w. the, i worry about the will of the west to continue to do what needs to be done. strong words from my desk this week data is full, the deputy supreme commander of your so richard sheriff, there is still in your, among european countries a lingering feel that somehow we can go back to some sort of states as quote and to with russia. that is not going to happen. so what does he think will happen? so alarming prospect soon focus the loud wake up, go to europe, the american general associates and sheriff, welcome to come fix up. thank you very much and just bear with me here. you're kind

of shocked up some successes on the battlefield in recent weeks. i've actually taken back control of drilling platforms. now in the black sea. i've been on it if you could give us an idea of some of the, of the scale of the challenges k of now faces in order to make further advances. i think it would be really difficult to overestimate the challenge. i mean, the brand is, uh, uh, ranged against what a stablish russian defenses other options have, have time to begin. they know, by digging in they've got in probably by the book. and the credit is gonna break it into that very, very well as a defensive design. breakthrough, it's going to take don, mine feels like go to us. they've gotta keep with the significance. i'll talk to the risk incoming file. they've got a breakthrough and then they got a break out and they got to do all of this without proper eye cover. uh, without

a superiority which no nature allow me, would consider to identify what that doing as well. no, no. so i'm a full stop has done a prize obstacle crossing in really difficult circumstances. you know of the day. so i'll be with the exception of the u. s codes go to even take this long coded and it's cutting in the account and fold. oh, i think i think it is. i think any nice i well, i mean, but, but the, so as far as to high intensity, come back on pricing would be, would it be prepared to take this on, but not with our, an extraordinary amount of time preparation, training. uh, building up the equipment building are kind of national doing it's i'm in a sense it's it's is this as well? um, i mean the, the, the college did in 91 was to break for the rocky defensive position, but it was on a past. so it was pretty easy, guy never has done this since the 2nd world war in your most has always have sped, j is on counter insurgency in places like iraq, as you mentioned,

that kind of stuff. so they're not exactly used to defending against the huge invasion, but your emphasis and the last few months has been on telling them that they should is that which i think is going to happen. i think it's nice to have is that it's uh russia long tom. nature's going to be printed prepared for the worst case, which is to be prepared to fight russia. we have major armies of golf. i've got to put the conference agency mindset behind them. and we can talk about, so there is an understanding of time constituted combat operations. how much was the on, depending your national arm is during the cold war. now that's going back a very long time. i've started a new generation, have got to find ways to do as the exact same of sleet of foot to resubmit as if we've seen the it's members zombies and spend a few days in latvia training where someone just realized the whole data personnel

speak the same language with the same degree of deficiency, nevermind time, chops the 3 out of $24.00, but it's been military vehicles broke down on the boat to way. it's not impressive is at the moment as well. they say, i mean i remain a sign of nice i, but you have to recognize which nice side of that it takes time that it's a consensus organization i added it's got to be able to is it has to move up to speed of a flight of ship in the convoy, i mean, coming back to your fast don't touch it. and that's the strategic point, your tactical points that you're talking about. well, that's what exercises are for the test to get it right until during this time, right? things are going wrong. and so you can put them right, they started flights of thoughts made. so multinational operations, at least it's the but it needs to hurt and it's capability and it's still higher. and it's capability by training. and it's a can do that. i'm really pursue the, the to see, right? so i'm spend, it can, it can build the big begin to build up that to turn capability that is needed for

the build up by that. so i was now, i went all the way more than 18 months into the largest line. boy, you have since the 2nd world war. shouldn't things be going a little better these days? all right, it might just saying things going wrong. the better from the stop brought from us. i mean, we need to recognize this more didn't begin in february 20 uh, february 2022. it began in, in, in, in march 2014 mazda brought when ross, or i've talked to brian. all you play february 2014 when it's a nice kind that i've made so hard work or not, but i'm and really puts it in place. the measures required to build up its high intensity capability. a, we might not be where we are, be your brain might pop by re, by, well, anyway, factors, we all, what we all said was served, showed us to the grind started make it happen, drive all as you call to for not to do that sort of thing, so i'm with you completely last year, a study as primary as the kind of callous of all the data is previous plans for defending the baltic states. a country with basic therapy wiped out of the map by

a russian, a box, tomatoes, extensive planning stuff over the years of the cold war as increase based stock posts the day. well, that's exactly why right? my book, the russia, i hired it, highlights the french to the baltic states written as a wake up cool to get and they started thinking about what it would do because car tell us was absolutely right that if the russians attacked it with a present, it may so with the 2 options, one right, by accept number 2 months, a massive invasion of the voltage states to reach out to them. and so it is absolutely right. no, i'm not privy to the planning, but nature is putting in place extensive plans to defend nay to entire truth, which is exactly what it should be doing. but at the same time it's one thing to put a plans in place. it means the means to protect comes, brings us back to building up,

data is the tire and capability. and that means focusing on high intensity conflict on the capability is required for high intensity conflict. it also means um, providing the cash to do that stuff. that is, i mean, you've got the 3 largest economies in may say you've got from germany, and it's all, they still don't paying 2 percent of g d, p to most defense. so what kind of signal does that send to the cabinet? like a wireless? it's under say that's, that's a pretty ball 2nd, a lot of pain. let's look at the positives last. i'm in the positives of countries like highland absolutely building up. it's kind of going to say go to both sides. started a lot the see right now. likewise, of course the guys are not saying not i was in the czech republic, recently the czech republic are really putting down money while they're in boxes and building up the capabilities is but you're absolutely right. countries like germany, easily, frogs, not yet beginning to spend 2 percent of gdp and do the job on the defense budget for trying to trying to 3 is not that it was for 2022. what sort of cycle does not

said, what does that tell you about the cycle, the cycling vendor? this cycle moments of grades change when johnny was going to guarantee 2 percent of g d p. yeah, on yeah, in defense, i would also not just like i wouldn't let but, and also the whole kinds of, i mean bridges. so not cosette. brittany will spend 2 percent 2.5 percent of g d p . when the economy allows a bottom afraid isn't good enough and that's where a long way short in this country side of western european countries, frankly need to wake up. and he will walk gaming this conflict and ukraine with all the stop logistical military political uncertainties thrown into the mix. how hard would you be? well, i'm an optimist, i'm it sure, but i'm also rest rid of this. i think the ukraine will achieve its military objectives. ukraine does not kind of stop slicing. you've tried the determination, but will, in ukraine, is absolutely extraordinary. ukrainians,

and that as i start fighting, ukraine will stop existing as a country. and so they won't go on fighting until they've defeated russia with always on the west. what does want to me though, is the west support for ukraine? americans support for your grand we're coming up to the election. yeah. free of or leading republican the content us upside by would pull out pull americans support from ukraine. an election yeah. means potential in decision and stuff is i worry about the level of capability to support in, for example, whether the time continue to dig deep and provide the ammunition and all of our capabilities that your crime needs online about provide rotation. i worry about prevarication. for example, jonathan is still hasn't made up his mind whether to send taurus the long range decision this all seriously capable and exactly what your training needs to complement it's high miles on the british storm shadow as well. so those of the,

i worry about the will of a west to continue to do what needs to be done. and there's a simple question. yeah. if the west does, what needs be done, the west is going to be more secure because it will mean ukraine can defeat russia quickly. if this thing runs old on, on, on the west as your, as a whole, will be less secure and in jeopardy storage. and we don't talk much about on the, in was these days. but it's an honorable stops in your view for the west to say to you, okay. okay, you go ahead and cite di for our values, and we'll give you some of what you need to do that. but we're not going to risk upsetting your. it'd be too much so that he turns off is that honorable? well, i think it's difficult to think repaired for the box, right? that was honorable. i'm on the floor, for example, the nation that somehow the west and they tire shouldn't be. and in such thing, but you credit and fight some more a but that meets and that,

but the way that nice i would do it might be a very simple gives you your pride into the means to do the job and let them get on with it. provides the supports in terms of intelligence and cyber and an e w. of course. but don't try, i'm 2nd guest, ukrainian generals and say, you know what works. they have been fighting the russians not for over 18 months. and they have, they have washed it, the russians, they have demonstrated that that's all about what they still like is real capability. and equally, your point about putting the time the constraints on your bread, it is absolutely right for you grind development, defend itself to practice in a level right of self defense. and if i mean, striking out into russia, well, so be, it's, i'm afraid this self deterrence is it well by the west has only resulted in, in the prolonged action of the war. if your brain on have the means to really follow up the, the liberation of cas on in november last year. things might be different as it was,

they didn't have that capability because of west i've not given them one rule. they really need it in, in a timely manner about a lot of the russians to reestablish the front line. so robot can to stop building the cycle. so robot can line of defense making it much, much more difficult for the credit. and so that's a simple equation, it was if you apply, if you concentrate of, if you, if you, if you really go for it, then you're going to change. all right? and so if you're in trouble, if you're prevaricates, you're going to make things much less because it kind of take much longer. you're talking about ukraine striking into russian territory with costa bones. have you no qualms about that? 100 countries about little of them. the mike, the cost of items that are a vile on file. i don't expect to walk across the rail and absolutely to close the use of trustable spots. if you, if trust, if you crane needs possible items to clear a russian friend of systems on your credit, entire tree, that is

a completely different pass you. that is a model for the pregnancy. but what your crime does need is long range because there's new types abilities, so that it can target russian logistic installations, headquarters on the light and, and make it very difficult for the russians. you've got a wide, influential circle of your credit and contacts government, parliament, military intelligence. it may, you even spend the nights in a and a bump, shelter and care? is that right? on the front part of the nice of the bone shelter along with many of the people who visited the print. what was the mood like the inspirational, the time? and absolutely, this is wrong. i mean the current is, as i said earlier, i'll click that. and uh, to find, to protect the literacy, they recognize that this is a will not just against ukraine, but it's again, it's a war against the west and you pray and joining the west. the determination, the inspiration of the engineer to the uh the,

the relative use of the leadership. this is a dynamic country determined to build its to protect itself and to build itself up until the account, the fun part of the west. that people are afraid about what the west might do or might not do to help them of a losing face in the west. i think may i know it was the grateful to the west for what the west has given them. i think i understand a bit better is frustration, but the west is trying to 2nd guess them and tell them how to use it were a number and the number of recent articles, but rich rich bridge. i think i've made the point in the west. we're trying to 2nd guess the requirements, but fundamentally, i think you companies are absolutely absolutely grateful, but let them get all those i set out in that some get on and do what they need to do without interfering with them. and the comments like, uh, will be with you all the way for as long as it takes they listen to those coming

out of brussels. this coming out of washington that they believe of. do you believe them? well, i'll check on the price line here, but i do want, as i said on the that will continue unless the positive actually let's, let's say for example, yes, the nice i some, it was very clear in terms of the support, but i would like to see also actually a statement from somebody so summit that ukraine will join nature when the conditions allow when the financing has stopped. and i would imagine we all day to give you without any less or hindrance. everything you need to make about pricing start as quickly as possible, in other words, to defeat corrections, and to change ok, and bring back to or treat your grand entire tree on the crate in solving to control several how, how finely balanced is this more in your view, how could things go badly wrong for you credit and what are the possible inflection points that you've tried needs to watch for?

what do you credit going to continue to defend? the russians will continue to months offensive operations, where they see opportunities as they are indeed mounting some reform offensive in the northern part of the house. it appears not with the effective results, so you can go to continue to protect itself protected center of gravity. it's source of strength and it's also strength visits people, and it will add it's determination the lots made. so lots has also got a protected source of strength, which is, it's a lot, it's cation. i think ukraine will prevail. i think your credit is prevailing at the moment, but it can, it will only achieve final victory when it has broken through a port of the russian defenses. and in my view from crime, the i'm from those lines of communication don to kind to making it very impossible for the russians total. and that is gonna require

a huge amount more effort unless they don't suggest it's not going to be over with one defensive. i think we have to be ready to support the ukrainians in a series of counter offensive or which are going to require the same levels of training equipment. i'm addition that the launching of the fast defensive across. so if this could run on for time. so the west nature needs the strategic patients to continue to support your crime, to the end of the day. you know, how about the possibility? i think it was a, in an article in may that if the west thousands supply all the hardware you pay needs now, victory may not be possible. a nice entrance might have to intervene. directing to assure that k f wins. um, do you think that's a real possibility? is that something that nato would have seriously contemplate that they saw never seriously contemplated before? 2014 or even up to 2014, an invasion of ukraine. by rushing nature,

i never seriously contemplated the baltic states would be for us and you can never say never, but the setup to the subject as was about it, but it never you read if it really services or nice i would and brought them would you invite you crane, i think you'd have seen a completely different acr extend. it turns back up because if they try to solve this in 2014, for example, so never roll anything out. um does what is nice i would gain to have to get involved. i pray not, but if the alternative is a decade of style made a decade, all an enormous consequences, a running so in eastern europe, who knows nature, paul, might need to get involved in order to swing the balance because that sort of style made a running so in eastern europe along the borders of ukraine, is going to be a french to, to europe in security. and if at the end of the day, your pan security is, is threatened. nature of security,

trusting nighttime may have to take action to support your credit. but a way to avoid is that the way to avoid may to engagement is the double don know, and next. yeah. on what the crating needs to achieve victory. or just to follow up on, on how you think this might go. do you think the base or whenever chief consensus on a plan to move in directly assistant credit enforcers with members like 100, i'll step back yet. so i k o possessing a veto is in the get it together to do that. well, it goes, australia is, is not as all the major a number, but no point is absolutely fine. the coast consensus would be incredibly difficult to get concepts that consensus. but as a sonata nature moves at the speed of a lot of the ship and the cons. board, and if, if the threat is the, is the circumstances of i'm not clear and not the moment, but here not errors antonio's time. the things may well have changed and,

and if it needs to nice or we'll get that. you've told him some of your interviews about a war last thing 2 to 3 years. no quick fixes. is that a danger that over such a long period, but it will result as globalized? it drops from the headlines. people get bored, they lose the fighting spirit. money dries up, other priorities begin to dominate. is that a possibility in this instance to think? absolutely, absolutely, and that's exactly what i'm worried about. the west losing interest, the west losing my men, some. the west losing 5 coast nice. i nation. i don't, i'm, is they tied defense forces not building themselves up to facebook. i don't think they'll talk to facebook. right? absolutely. that's my concern. but the with, as i said, i that with an election the next year in america, will america continue to provide that enormous capability? and that's something we got to watch and it comes back to my point about the way to

make sure that ukraine achieves that spectrum as quickly is doubled on what it needs. now, in order to avoid that long running a long running, i'm still not due for say, what kind of your do you foresee coming out of this or it's, it's not going to be the same. is it? nothing is ever going to be the same again after this, what changes? everything changes, doctrine, it changes a whole perception of security in your doesn't it, i think very still saw it's a very still in your, among european countries, a lingering feel that somehow we can go back to some sort of states as quote and to with russia that is not going to happen. what ever happens? yeah, let's assume you create a cheese. that's been a trip tractors. let's assume the guns bull silent. the veterans, some as a result of 5 of the russians was running a white flag old as an honest as or something and the ukrainians able are able to, to deliver it as much of the country as i will. a lot of them, the security of,

of it was not looking for that is not going to stop russia. the russian does are under what a leader is in the criminal in russia will continue to want to eliminate ukraine from a map. it's built into russian dna that ukraine cannot exist as a, as a country. there is no such thing as a separate nation or culture of ukraine. and that means that ukraine has got to become part of no time. and that means, but in order to protect and they try to protect your protect the laws, protect ukraine. nature has got to establish a bond of the tire and steal around around eastern europe to include ukraine mall drive of georgia, maybe even one day by the us to protect against a russian. because what we're witnessing is the decline of the russian. and this is gonna play out over the decades to calm. it's not a bit of an over and done with quickly. it's yours of my grandchildren,

100 repricing of challenge. and so the only way to maintain peace in your loan is through an effective nature to turn so that instead of change that change but dynamic and economically financially, the way your positives business. i think the patio is completely dropped out. but that's my view of the way things are. don't have to do something they don't trend of nuclear to tone subscribes to survive this conflict. now the russians being waving gets nukes and all faces. and are we going to see over they have a new pair of states doing the same thing, whatever they want, something that to we won't give them as, yeah, i mean, i think you're going to be really careful about us as assuming, but somehow, because we've got you're right in this country we've, we've got try it in to an integral dropped into continental villa sickness. all that is going to credibly russian aggression to the tire effectively. you need to be able to, to talk at every level of symmetric, conventional, tactical nuclear, all the way out the scale. i think for the foreseeable future,

russia, of course, will post a new friend. the way to to the target is to have effective new political turns as well as conventional attendance by the way, to and showed up a new class. so the nuclear saber rattling is in a sense rendered um meaningless is through effective conventional to tire detox because of rational things that it can get away with nuclear black mile 'vette. it won't try that. and if you have effective the terms on every level, it wouldn't be able to provide for you for your home, the big a problem, the west to show that it listens to new, clear black male. it's been listening to what the credit is. that it's, it's, it's turned on its rhetoric and hasn't given you credit the weapons that need it listens to new, clear back, ma'am. and that makes it valuable to basically like north korea, doesn't it? well, let's just back to my point about self determines uh,

i'm not cooling pritchens month. i mean, let's be clear. and the sort of new saber rattling is really, really dangerous. but yeah, the west needs to be absolutely unequivocal. and i'm shoulders the top of, i mean i think we have to not upset of course, is that there is communication between america and rush it up. there is communication between certain, all the native capitals and russia. i'm absolute this out and that the message has been played out very powerfully. but if there is in the fall of nuclear, new to release time to go or otherwise, russia can expect us off a massive pain conventionally as a result. but the wesley spit clara determined about that. so richard sheriff, we run out of time unfortunately. thank you very much for being on complex. so thank you for having me. thankful for your time. thank you. the

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