the ink of temporary caea to yon saucer, a master in spar snorted, writing, now decorated with the highest literary honor. there is a message from me and the news team, so now coming up next. the news is up with a melissa chat. don't forget there's always a lot more news on our website that's dw dot com, got offers in berlin from me and the new stream. i spoke to the secret society behind the discover new adventures in 362 and explore fascinating. both heritage dw world heritage, 360 now thoughts winning

the say never giving us the most exciting thoughts, stories about people's passions and they drive every weekend on dw, the, you're watching the news asia coming up today, the growing price of doing business in china. foreign companies have become targets for badging sweeping counter espionage loss. we look at china's increasing use of exit bands for, for national and the life and chinese detention. a personal accounts from a taiwanese business man accused of spying and stealing states secret is just like, hey,

if you use those that are for you that you appeal the my name is melissa chan. thanks for joining us. the u. s. is sending another high level delegation to china next week on the agenda for the group of senior lawmakers . are a range of security and economic issues to raise with a game, including the growing risks of doing business with the world's 2nd largest economy . multi national companies are complaining that china is becoming a hostile business environment. as the security states reach, expands, the us secretary of commerce, who visited badging in late august, says patients is running fitting for investors who now have to contend with quote, exorbitant fines without any explanation revisions to the counter espionage law

which are unclear and sending shock waves through the us community rates on businesses, a whole new level of challenge. the scariest aspect is the growing numbers of business travelers facing a rest and detention. badging has also increased its use of exit benz, preventing people from leaving the country. this includes both foreign citizens and chinese executives working with international corporations, raising concerns that china is not really open for business, except on its own terms. the u. s. has even issued a travel warning quote reconsider travel to mainland china due to the arbitrary enforcement of local laws, including in relation to exit bands and the risk of wrongful detentions are joining us in the studio is the w's asia analyst clifford at kuhn and clifford can you tell us more about these exit bands,

have chinese authorities provided any explanation, or are they truly arbitrary? well, i think as us china relations have worse and they become more arbitrary and they become scary or harder to work out exactly what's going on. it's quite a broad issue here. we have sort of a profile global issues like the detention of 2 canadian nationals in a, in a power and retaliation for the detention of, of a senior chinese executive. then you have more sort of plastic espionage cases where people are tried in secret and they just go to jail and we don't know what happens. and then you have the exit bonds where you have executives who are involved in various business dealings or whatever. who are just not allowed to leave the country, and they're stuck in their hotels, in shanghai or in guam, joe or whatever they are. but they don't, we, you know, why they're, there, i'm what's going on. and in the most extreme cases, these people are for nationals including americans. can you tell us a little bit more about that? yeah, i think since particular, since the trade war has intensified in the,

in the middle of the last decades, you know, and we've seen a lot, a lot more americans being involved a lot more foreigners being involved. um, so it used to be that it was a chinese born americans, you know, who have both chinese passports and americans. but as we saw with the to michael's that this case in, in the, to canadians. and they were, they were all of us. they weren't all chinese and in one particular case, who i spoke to, i spoke to harrison lee who's the son of kylie, and his father was detained on espionage charges. now his father is shanghai born, but he's an american citizen and he's been jail since 2016. and in the interview, harrison said how he hasn't seen his father in person for 7 years. and he reckons it was his father's notion dollars. he was the reason that he was targeted by the chinese government and in prisons and we can listen to him here. i think that's the most frightening aspect of hostage diplomacy that literally anybody can be

targeted simply for their nationality. and my dad's case against an american citizen and you know, because i guess blue passport, he was targeted by the chinese government for a leverage. and that's, that's the simple reality of the situation. yes. so we see there have you refer us to hostage diplomacy? that's a big factor in the, in the reasoning behind why a lot of these people are forbidden from leaving china. and i asked him, we agree with this as a background, whether he felt that there was a, whether people were taking a risk going to china. yeah, 100 percent. right. i mean if, if people like my dad, ordinary people, right. it's not like, oh, you know, again, even though i have any political connections, he doesn't have a lot of money. i mean it's, you know, anyone visiting china for whatever reason, right. yes, there are 4 national they have this risk of being right targeted for hostage to columbus. and that's why there is this travel advisory. that's precisely why this

advisory exist is because of that risk. and i think just a lot of people um are not aware of that, especially yes and the business community, clifford do we have an extent to which international companies are reassessing, the risk of sending businessmen and women into china. and how much are these exit benz booking executives? i think they've definitely spoke to people. the situation was already pretty bad because a lot of people who went to china got stopped there during the cobra lockdown, which was very extreme in china. and they couldn't leave and they didn't see their families for, for in some cases years. but aside from that, this is a, this political aspect to it is, is very important. and i think it has made an impact and how have companies are behaving. we have an irish executive, richard will holler on who was detained in shanghai over what looks like a business dealings issue where the was the purchase of a plane on the ownership of the plane was disputed. he couldn't leave for,

for many months until eventually he was freed. but when that kind of thing happens, if we does boot foreign companies and it's, it's kind of happened at the same time, is relations between the us and china have worse. and i think it's, it's a big risk now for, for companies sending people there they, they risk huge liabilities if their people get stop there. and so i think a lot of it is going to depend on how relations develop now between the us and china, whether people will start coming back. but there's still a lot of reluctance about going there. i think it's fascinating that those who are choosing to go, i mean, i think everybody just thinks it ain't gonna happen to me. right. it's going to happen to someone else, but not me. banning business people at a time when china is seeking to grow its economy to do business with the world. that seems so counter productive. so clifford, i wonder why is this happening? well i think it's, like we said many times before with this that when you look at these,

this situation and politics always trumps economics. and in china, and this is very much a decision, a political decision. i think it's tied in with the, the relationship between the west in china and regardless of the impact that these business people are having. i think that ultimately if there's a feeling within the communist party that it's better to, to, to freeze at the west. i think that your, it's going to lead to these kind of exit bonds happening. it's going to lead to people like you say, nobody wants to be the 1st to be arrested. so they're, they're quite happy for the situation to continue that. people don't want to go to china. we are seeing signs of a reset. now in western relations with china, particularly the u. s. relations with china. so maybe the situation will change, but ultimately i think they hold exit bond strategy if it and it is a strategy comes down to political reasoning. so this all goes down to shooting p. ultimately, it does come down to huge in paying particularly 18. he has made all these

decisions that don't make economic sense for a lot of people. you know, it's been like that for quite a number of years. it doesn't seem like economics is a factor for him until it gets really, really serious until like the, the warning signs are out there. red flags everywhere that he has to change course . yeah, that's right, i'm so he's, he's 30, he follows his own course. he knows what he wants to do in terms of the marxist letter and aside geology or the comments party audiology. and that's going to be the, his primary concern. it's not going to be worrying about the impact of international on the international trade. even on the chinese economy, that's very so, so many, especially at a time also in the you where they're also looking to, to resume business as usual, with the chinese, all of this happening to american citizens, to a chinese citizens working for multi national companies. very, very troubling and hard to predict when you're trying to do business with china in this kind of unpredictable environment. clifford couldn't,

and thank you so much for joining us. the dw also speaks to lead men to a taiwanese businessman, who was detained in china and accused of espionage and stealing state secrets. he was also a victim of an exit band, and you won't believe what chinese authorities considered as incriminating evidence . here's the w's, james tater reporting from sion to in northern taiwan. the moment you is finally back home in taiwan. he recently with the chinese authorities held him for 4 years now since you the city where he was born and raised looks different. with sudden new abilities like new high speed house and they were shopping most new stores. that's good. these are the pictures, the costly full use of his life. not his food, but the chinese police in the distance. it was in 2019 and he was on

a regular business trip to the southern chinese city of son, john. please for gathering here right next to hong kong which was gripped by pro democracy protests up a time. lee says he was curious about the police gathering and was in the public space, but the chinese officials forced him to confess to espionage. that'd be the table be allowed to do for several times. if you, if you follow us, maybe the charge you will be as low as rooms for to homes that have moved to the left present in 2021. but the aging and post exit bond kept him in china until recently for you, this price of it for you the is just like a fresh a breeze. if you use those that are for you that you appeal to problem for lee and many others. here is a chinese president. she, jim ping says taiwan is sacred chinese territory. and that full time when these

people, he's citizens of these experiences deepened. his belief in the importance of defending tie when he's autonomy, his old high school costs mate, eric, you know, also some advice about dealing with the use lost in china. tell you what all the time that good or couldn't houses to go to that kind of to drug with him. so you have to treat it as long as you've come back from full use that democracy university all the way that you can only think of it like that. yeah, yeah. and in the future, you just a good that copy of that. you an idea of the now spends much of his time on human rights activist work often talking about what the chinese coming this policy or c c p did to him. and why just how about your experience in china? because i'd be more than more choose to

leave, feel safe here. it's home on time. one's north west coast. even though china is less than 200 kilometers away across the sea. i'm going forward. he says he's determined to do once he can to keep it that way. that for the programs. my name is melissa chan. thanks for watching and good bye. the . the rocks you is struggling with the diction. many young people i using crystal meth to escape to leak out the looks of it every day. life is an addict face. severe penalties and prisons are already over crowded and assistance. is that surely nonexistent? iraq drugs cry c

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