of course, we say they're never giving up every weekend on d w. i worry about the will of a west to continue to do what needs to be done. strong words from my desk this week they thought was full, the deputy supreme commander of your so richard sheriff, there is still in your, among european countries a lingering feel that somehow we can go back to some sort of states as quote and to with russia that is not going to happen. so what does he think will happen? so alarming prospect soon focus is allowed wake up, go to europe, the american general associates and sheriff, welcome to come fix up. thank you very much and just bear with me here. you're kind

of jumps out some successes on the battlefield in recent weeks, i've actually taken back control of drilling platforms. now in the black sea. i've been on it if you could give us an idea of some of the, of the scale of the challenges k of now faces in order to make further advances. i think it would be really difficult to overestimate the challenge. i mean, the brand is, uh, uh, ranged against what a stablish rushing defenses other options have, have time to begin. they know, by digging in they've got in probably by the book. and the credit is going to break it into that very, very well. as i mentioned, zine breakthrough, it's going to take don, mine feels like go to us. they've gotta keep with the significance. i'll talk to the risk incoming file. they're going to break through and then they're going to break out and they're going to do all of this without proper eye color without

a superiority which no nature allow me, would consider to identify what that doing as well. no, no. so i'm a full stop. has done a pies up just to go crossing in really difficult circumstances, you know of the day. so i'll be with the exception of the u. s. codes because even take this long coded and it's cutting in the account and fold. oh, i think i think it is, i think any nice i well, i mean, but, but the, so as far as to high intensity, come back on pricing would be, would be prepared to take this on, but not with our an extraordinary amount of time preparation, training uh, building up the equipment building are kind of national during its i'm in a sense it is. is this as well? um, i mean the, the, the conversation did in 91 was to break for the rocky defensive position, but it was on a post. so it was pretty easy, guy never has done this since the 2nd world war in your most i was always of sped, j is on counter insurgency in places like iraq, as you mentioned,

that kind of stuff. so they're not exactly used to defending against the huge invasion, but your emphasis and the last few months has been i'm telling them that they should is that which i think is going to happen. i think it's nice to have is to russia long term nation. i was going to be printed prepared for the worst case, which has to be prepared to fight russia. we have major armies of golf. i've got to put the conference agency mindset behind them and we can talk about. so there is an understanding of time constituted. combat operations, which was the underpinning of national armies during the cold war. now that's going back a very long time. i've started a new generation, have got to find ways to do as the exact same of sleet of foot to resubmit it. as if we've seen the it's members. zombies have spent a few days in latvia training where someone just realized the whole data personnel

speak the same language with the same degree of proficiency, nevermind type job. so the 3 out of $24.00, but it's big military vehicles broke down on the boat the way it's not impressive is at the moment. well they, so, i mean, i remain inside of nice i, but you have to recognize which nice side of that it takes time uh that its a consensus organization. um, adage, ought to be able to is it has to move at the speed of a flight of shipping. the convoy, i mean, coming back to you all fast, don't touch it. and that's a strategic point. you know, we'll talk to go points that you're talking about, well that's what exercises are for the test to get it right until dwanda signed by, things are going wrong. and so you can put them right. they sort of fluids or thoughts made. so multinational operations, at least it's the but it needs to hurt and it's capability and it's still higher and it's capable, it's about training and it's a can do that really pursue the, the to see, right? so then the span, it can, it can build, begin to build up that to turn capability that is needed. but inside of build up by

that. so i was now, i went all the way more than 18 months into the largest live more in europe since the 2nd world war. shouldn't things be going a little better these days? why that might just saying things going wrong. the battle from the start and brought from the support. i mean, we need to recognize this more didn't begin in february 20 uh, february 2022. it began in, in, in, in march 2014 mazda brought when ross, or a talked to brian. all you play february 2014 when it's a nice kind that i just made. so how it works or not, but i'm and really puts it in place. the measures required to build up it's high intensity capability. a, we might not be where we are, be your brain might off by re, by we all anyway, factors. we all where we all said was so showed us to the grind started make it happen, drive home and you call to for not to do that sort of thing. so i'm with you completely last year, a study as primary as the kind of callous of all the data is previous plans for defending the baltic states. a country with basic therapy wiped out of the map by

a russian a box, tomatoes, extensive planning stuff over the years of a cold loss increase based back post the day. oh, that's exactly why i write my book. yeah. russia, i highs highlights of the french to the baltic states written as a wakeup, cool to get and they started thinking about what it would do because our car tell us was absolutely right that if the russians attacked it with a present, it made so with to walk, she's one right by accept number to mind, a massive invasion of the voltage states to reach out to them. and so it is absolutely right. now i'm, i'm not privy to the planning, but nato is putting in place extensive plans to defend nay to entire truth. which is exactly what it should be doing, but at the same time it's one thing to put a plans in place. it means the means to protect and that comes, brings us back to building up data is the tire and capability of that means

focusing on high intensity conflict on the capability is required for high intensity conflict. it also means providing the cash to do that stuff that i mean you've got the 3 largest economies in mesa, you got from germany and it's all they still don't paying 2 percent of g d p to most defense. so what kind of signal does that send to the cabinet, like a wireless? it's under say, it's a pretty full signal out of hand. let's look at the positives last. i'm in the positives of countries like highland absolutely building up. it's kind of going to say that the voltage sides started a lot the see right now. likewise, of course that guys are not saying not. i was in the czech republic recently, project republic, already putting the money while they're in boxes and building up that capabilities is that you're absolutely right. countries like germany, italy, france, not yet beginning to spend the 2 percent of g d p. indeed, the german defense budget for trying to trying to treat is not that it was for 2022

. what sort of signal does not said, what does that tell you about the cycles i can vendor this cycle. moments of grades change when johnny was going to guarantee 2 percent of g d p. yeah, on yeah, in defense, i would also not just like i wouldn't let button also whole kinds of, i mean bridges. so not cosette. brittany will spend 2 percent 2.5 percent of g d p . when the economy allows that off right, isn't good enough and that's where a long way short in this country side of western european countries, frankly need to wake up if you're a little more gaming this conflict and you cry with all the stop logistical administrative, political uncertainties thrown into the mix. how are it? would you be a well, on an optimist, i made sure, but i'm also rest rid of this. i think the ukraine will achieve its military objectives. ukraine is not going to stop slicing. you've tried the determination, but will, in ukraine,

is absolutely extraordinary. ukrainians and that as i stop fighting, ukraine will stop existing as a country, so they won't go on fighting until they've defeated russia with always on the west . what does want to me though, is the west support for your crime? american support for your grand we're coming up to the election. yeah. free of or leading republican the content? those upside by would pull out pull americans support from ukraine. an election? yeah. means potential in decision and stuff is i worry about the level of capabilities support in, for example, whether your time continue to dig deep and provide the admission of our capabilities that your crime needs. so i want to but provide rotation. i worry about prevarication. for example, jonathan is still hasn't made up his mind whether to send taurus the long range precision no so seriously capable and exactly what your training needs to complement it's high miles on the british storm shadow as well. so those of the,

i worry about the will of a west to continue to do what needs to be done. and there's a simple equation. yeah. if the west does, what needs been done, the west is going to be more secure because it will mean ukraine can defeat russia quickly. if this thing runs old on, on, on the west as your, as a whole, will be less secure and in jeopardy storage. and we don't talk much about on the, in was these days. but it's an honorable stops in your view for the west to say to you, okay. okay, you go ahead and cite di for our values, and we'll give you some of what you need to do that. but we're not going to risk upsetting your. it'd be too much so that he turns off is that on mobile? well i think it's difficult to think repaired for gonna try it out is honorable, i'm on the floor, for example, the notion that somehow the west and they tire shouldn't be. and in such thing, but you credit and find some more a that meets and the way that nice i would do it might be very simple,

gives the ukrainians the means to do the job unless some general with it provides the supports in terms of intelligence and cyber and an e w, of course, but don't try, i'm 2nd guest, ukrainian generals and say, you know what works. they have been fighting the russians not for over 18 months. they have, they have washed it, the russians. they have demonstrated that that's all about what they still like is real capability. and equally, your point about putting the time to constraints on your brand, it is absolutely right for you grind development, defend itself to practice in a level right of self defense. and if i mean, striking out into a rush, i won't so be it's, i'm afraid this self deterrence is it well by the west has only resulted in, in the prolonged action of the war. if you crane and have the means to really follow up the river, the liberation of cas on in november last year. i think it might be different as it

was, they didn't have that capability because of west i have not given them one rule. they really needed in, in a timely memo of that, a lot of the russians to re establish the front line. so robot can to stop building the cycle so rover can line of defense making it much, much more difficult for the credit. and so that's a simple equation, it was if you plugged, if you concentrate off of, if you, if you, if you really go for it, then you're going to change. all right? and so if you're in trouble, if you're prevaricates, you're going to make things much less because it kind of take much, much longer. you're talking about ukraine striking into russian territory with costa bones. have you no qualms about that? 100 countries about what the a mazda i the problem is there a, a file on file? i don't expect to walk across the mail, and absolutely to close the use of trustable spots. if you, if trust, if you train needs possible items to clear a russian friend of systems on your credit, entire tree, that is

a completely different packages you that as a model for the pregnancy. but what your crime does need is long range because there's new types of bullets it so that it can target russian logistic installations headquarters on the light and, and make it very difficult for the russians. you've got a wide, influential circle of ukrainian contacts, government column, and military intelligence. it may, you even spend the nights in a and a bump, shelter and care? is that right on the front part of the nice of the bomb shelter, along with many of the people who visited your crime, what was the mood like the inspirational ton and absolutely, this is wrong. i mean, the crime is, as i said earlier, i'll click that determines uh, to find to protect the literacy. they recognize that this is a will not just against ukraine, but it's a good, it's a war against the west and you pray and joining the west. the determination, the inspiration of the engineer to the um the,

the relative view for the leadership. this is a dynamic country, determined to build it, to protect itself and to build itself up until the account. i'm part of the west that people are afraid about what the west might do or might not to to help them of a losing face in the west. i think they are known as the grateful to the west for what the west has given them. i think i understand a bit better is frustration, but the west is trying to 2nd guess them and tell them how to use it, where a number and the number of recent articles which which, which, which i think i've made the point in the west. we're trying to, as i can guess, the requirements, but fundamentally, i think you companies are absolutely absolutely grateful, but let them get all and as i said to them that some get on and do what they need to do without interfering with them. and the comments like, uh, will be with you all the way for as long as it takes they listen to those coming

out of brussels. i listen to those coming out of washington that i believe of. do you believe them? well, i think i'm afraid sponder, but i do worry, as i said on the that will continue unless the positive actually let's, let's say for example, yes, the nice i saw me. it was very clear in terms of the support, but i would like to see also actually a statement of them based on the summit that ukraine will join the nation or when the conditions allow when the fighting of stops. and i would have had we all day to give you without any less or hindrance everything you need to backpack pricing so as quickly as possible. in other words, to defeat the russians. i'm the chief joke and bring back to our tr. your grand entire trait on the pregnant solver and to control several how, how finely balanced is this more in your view? how could things go badly wrong for you credit and what are the possible inflection

points that you've tried needs to watch for, and what are you guys going to continue to defend? the russians will continue to months offensive operations, where they see opportunities as they are indeed mounting some reform all offensive in the northern public warehouse. it appears with the effective results, so you can go to continue to protect itself protected center of gravity. it's also strength and it's also strength visits people and it will addicts, determination, there are lots mesa are lots has also got a protected source of strength, which is, it's a lot cation. i think ukraine will prevail. i think your credit is prevailing at the moment, but it can, it will only achieve final victory when it was broken through a pool of the russian defences. and in my view from the crime, yeah. i'm from those lines of communication done to crime. they are making it very impossible for the russians to hold. all of that is going to require

a huge amount more. and let's be on site jeff. it's not going to be over with one offensive. i think we have to be ready to support the ukrainians in a series of counter offensive or which are going to require the same level of training equipment. i mention that the launching of the fast defensive across the fisk run on for time. so the west nature needs the strategic patients to continue to support your grand till the end of like the end of the day. you how about the possibility? i think it was a, in an article in may that if the west of the supply all the hardware you pay needs now, victory may not be possible. and they sent troops might have to intervene. directing to assure that k f wins. um, do you think that's a real possibility? is that something that nato would have seriously contemplate that they saw never seriously contemplated before the 2014, or even up to 2014, an invasion of ukraine by russia nation. i never seriously contemplated the baltic

states would be for us. and you can never say no, that's the set up for the son because this wasn't about it, but it never, you read it. if it really services don't nice i would. and at the rock that would you invite you cried, i think you'd have seen a completely different approach to turns back up a call this nation. i saw this in 2014 for example. so never roll anything out. um does what is nice? okay. do i have to get involved? i pray not. but if the alternative is a decade of stay on, maybe a decade, all, you know, most casualties a running so in eastern europe, who knows nature, paul might need to get involved in order to swing the pounds because that sort of style made a running. so in eastern europe along the borders of ukraine, is going to be a french to, to europe in security. and if at the end of the day, your pan security is, is threatened, nationally, security is sutton,

nighttime may have to take action to support your credit. but a way to avoid that, the way to avoid nature engagement is the double don know, and next. yeah. on what the credit needs to achieve victory or just a follow up on, on how you think this might go. do you think that base or whatever chief consensus on applying to move in directly assisting credit and forces with members like congress? i'll step step back yet so i can opens that single veto is in the get its act together to do that. well, it goes, australia is, is known as the and number, but no point is absolutely fine. the coast consensus would be incredibly difficult to get concepts that consensus, but as a sort of nature moves at the speed of a lot of the ship and the con board. and this, if for us is the, is the circumstances of i'm not clear and not the moment, but here not errors antonio's time. and things may well have changed. and if it

needs to nice or we'll get the you've talked to some of your interviews about a war last thing 2 to 3 years. no quick fixes. is that a danger that over such a long periods that's more as old as globalized? it drops from the headlines. people get bored, they lose the fighting spirit. money drives up on the priorities begin to dominate . is that a possibility in this instance to think? absolutely, absolutely, and that's exactly what i'm worried about. i the west losing interest, the west losing momentum, the west losing 5 coast nights. i may say, oh i'm is they tied defense forces not building themselves up. suffice without being built off to face. that's right. absolutely. that's my concern. but the with, as i said, i that with an election. yeah. next year in america. will america continue to provide that enormous capability? and that's something we've got to watch. and it comes back to my point about the

way to make sure all that ukraine achieves that spectrum as quickly is doubled on what it needs. now, in order to avoid that long running, the long running on sale next to do for say, what kind of your do you foresee coming out of this or it's, it's not going to be the same. is it? nothing is ever going to be the same again after this, what changes? everything changes doctrine. it changes a whole perception of security in your doesn't it, i'd say very still saw it very still in your, among european countries a lingering feel that somehow we can go back to some sort of states of the quote to with russia. that is not going to happen. what ever happens? yeah, let's assume you create a cheese. that's been the trajectory. let's assume the guns bull silent. the veterans, some as a result of 5 of the russians was running a white flag old as an honest as or something and the ukrainians able are able to, to deliberate as much of the country as i will. a lot of them, the security of,

of it was not looking for that is not going to stop russia. the russian does are under what a leader is in the kremlin. russia will continue to want to eliminate ukraine from a map. it's built into russian dna that ukraine cannot exist as a, as a country. there is no such thing as a separate nation or culture of ukraine. and that means that ukraine has got to become part of no time. and that means, but in order to protect and they try to protect your protect the laws, protect ukraine, nighttime is going to establish a bond of the tire and steal around around eastern europe to include ukraine mall drive of georgia, maybe even one day by the rest to protect against a russian because what we're witnessing is a decline of the russian. and this is going to play out over the decades to com. it's not a bit of an over and done with the quickly it's yours of my grandchildren. honeymoon

pricing is challenging, and so the only way to maintain peace in your loan is through an effective nature to turn. so that is gotta change the change, but dynamic and economically, financially, the way your positives business, i think the public is completely dropped out, but that's my view of the way things are going to happen. do you think the doctrine of nuclear to tone subscribes to survive this conflict? now the russians being waving gets nukes and all faces. and how are we going to see it when they have a new care um, states doing the same thing, whatever they want, something that to we won't give them as, yeah, i mean, i think you're going to be really careful about as, as assuming. but somehow, because we've got, you're right in this country we've, we've got try it in to an integral and dropped into continental. the signal solves that, is going to credibly russian aggression to the tire effectively. you need to be able to deter at every level how symmetric, conventional tactical nuclear, all the way up the scale. i think for the foreseeable future, russia, of course,

will post a nuclear upfront. the way to to the target is to have effective new political turns as well as conventional the turns by the way to and show up a new class. the nuclear saber rattling is in a sense rendered um, meaningless, is through effective conventional to time to tax. because of russia thinks that it can get away with nuclear black mile 'vette. it won't try that. and if you have effective the terms on every level, it wouldn't be able to provide for you for your home, the big problem, the west to show that it listens to nuclear black val. it's been listening to what the crime in the sentence it's, it's tough down it's rhetoric and hasn't given you credit. the weapons that need it listens to new, clear black man. and that makes it valuable to basically like most of it, doesn't it? well, this goes back to my point about self determines and

a not cooling pritchens month. i mean, let's be clear. and the sort of new saber rattling is really, really dangerous. but yeah, the west needs to be absolutely unequivocal. and i'm sure this has happened, but i mean, i think we have to know upset and of course is that there is communication between america and russian. up there is communication between certain, all the native capital and russia. i'm absolute this out and that the message has been played out very powerfully. but if there is any full of new, come out new to release time to go lower. otherwise, russia can expect to suffer a massive pay conventionally as a result. but the wesley stickler determined about that. so richard sheriff, we run out of time, unfortunately, i thank you very much for being on complex. so thank you for having me. thankful for your time. thank you. the

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the stop filming us, a plea for new perspectives, thoughts, october trends with us on dw, the, the, this is dw news, and these are all top stories. is at least 51 people have been killed in a russian strike on the north east of ukraine state prosecutors saved themselves truck, a village grocery store. i'm cafe in the hockey region. the country's interior ministers and the victims had been gathered awake to remember a diseased village. a syrian governor.