then in 60 minutes, d, w. well, the in progress pop calls to everyone who wants to know more about this topic that concerned about this story is beyond the headline world in progress. the w talk costs hello and welcome to another exciting addition of the 77 percent. the show where we talk with and to each other about issues affecting us via passed a mental health little in 2910. but it's implementation is still touchy. in this weeks treat the beat, the 77 percent heads to the soccer, to find out why despite the little people who have mental health problems,

can't get the help they need. take a look. the depression, bipolar disorder, mental health issues like these are seen as the boot topics in many african societies with limited access to medical health care services, young africans to struggling with that mental health, i left to their own devices. the dw 77 percent in them be of precisely the setup to look at this silence epidemic circle satellite appeal to me, of course, talk to the people at the heart of its advocacy. and i'm going to start off with here. mr. benjamin who has 10 years experience of course, talking about mental health. first of all just gave us an overview of the mental health situation here in zambia. we have most of us say this is highly centralized and the 2nd on the services um uh we have the government to institutions and of private practice coming up. and we have a number of institutions that i'll also providing uh,

like telephone counseling services. just to make sure that the access to mental health services is made are valuable, accessible and affordable, even to those why don't within the 2nd. all right, let me just come to uh, number time out here. benjamin has been in the advocacy for over 10 years. you start to just do as a goal, tell us what has been your focus. is it that for the past decade, a lot of work has not been done in this, that made you want to start to own a drug as the as well. so my focus has been on raising mental health and wellness and ending the stigma that surrounds mental health. because in the past, people have been glued to or you don't have stuck to these misconceptions about mental health. as such as the belief that mental illnesses occurs or, you know, it's the one position. so my focus has been to debunk those myths and make people realize that mental illness is something that can tuck anyone. and we have duncan

here who yourself has experienced this live to talk to us about the experience with mental health. how is that phase of your life? like i struggled with depression and anxiety for over 12 years. in that moment i became suicide. but the age of 10, and at the age of 16 i studied attempting suicide. i did my, i did migrant. a dig somewhere at the age of 6, which i develop souls and my leaps. you know, sometimes when i, when, if i go to school at home, my friends a lot for me that because policy and, but didn't come out of my lips. so i, i received rejection from there and coming from a broken home as well. so i felt i had low self esteem and out my on so i have to kick me as a way of finding out so much scared of the future. because the opposite point of my life, the doctor told me that i might have been called blind because of that might be made dick, which i started to fix my eyes. so i sat down and i thought,

what's the in the future? and we suggest that we things where because we struggle with so much in the front media with mom and dad separated. we went through so much by 9 chevy. so the i was no, any form of hope for me. what about the family, your images surrounding? you understand what you are going through. i know they did not understand. okay, let me just come to mom here briefly. she is duncan small, mom, if you could just tell us how you feel after realizing that your child was actually struggling with mental health. and you cannot really pin point that that was actually what he was going through. so many, no, none of the united states had left up with up to which but the women and update the good news of my maintenance or frequency by the number was and i thought some guys the by difficult day, the funding is to me to use the same feed, i need to meet them, must wishing them it is will be done. this will be indeed date. was that visit with

the data by me enough and it was it by and then depending to my phone is i'm reading the case. did you receive any sort of help during this phase? i mean, if i did in the, the sad part is uh, if i knew if i knew that i was struggling to ming toyotas, i had no idea what it means to help with these. let me just come back to you quickly bench. i mean, when we're looking at some of the causes some suicidal causes that are actually result in just some of the, some mental health issues with some of the what are some of those that you've encountered. so the most common causes of mental health issues and possibly talk about the increased substance abuse, alcohol, and drug abuse in young people. but we also want to emphasize on the aspect of what we call the bio psycho social. so some individuals that is already brothers, crappy dispos, why they are born in families where there is a significant yourselves, family members being treated or under did with me that eunice, distressed as a webpage with the, the yes and eventually, you know,

later on episode that just now, so i'm on with nude psychological and you know, i have, i'm a college go stop by during integration. let me just come quickly to apply to here, who of course talks about a lot of social issues. you are port and these, these young voice of the voice less. how do you e? see the issue of mental health in zambia. i think the, the, the conversation around mental health is from the one of the exclusive compositions . you can find such compositions in poor communities. why do you think it's, it's like that to you? i'll tell you. the poor people have no excuse for what if i've been seen in my down at school, you'll say, if you're just out, if you, if you, if you had trouble dies, nobody would know that you're 2 months. i do have most of these kids lose your parents when they're young. most of these kids experience so much without nobody paying attention to them. so these composition is exclusive to us in class of people that have an opportunity to even understand leaving next se, se,

combination, their own mental youth. let me come to duncan quickly add to just take us through that, that state of mind to really what was it when you were going through? what was it that you felt that you need, that way you're communicating through your actions, your emotions that people were feeling very difficult to understand and grew up? how did that make you feel? um, so i showed all of the science of suicide to my family. the people that i was leaving with, but nobody could be able to recognize my mental state. so i had to withdraw from people i. i lived alone the life, and i was very shy. i had low self esteem as well. i also could talk much about, they seemed right most so much about die, you know, be the only solution there on your way out. so i showed all those signs. sometimes i took to maybe spiritual people, but they told me, let's pray about it. so i felt least understood and i felt the only way out to

suggest in my life, i mean, you talked about um, seeking for spiritual help as well. don't let me just come to dr. francisco here. tell us, how is the situation of medical access when it comes to treatment services? mental health is a health presentation like any other health presentation. thus, if an individual feels like they've got a mental health issue or condition or problem, they should go to the nearest mental health center dislike. we go to the nearest health center for a headache. for hypertension that bit is h i v. this is not the case. yeah. you we are in the only by the way the oily mental health hospital with this china i this is the only one we have in insomnia. is that correct? allow me to correct. that's the go ahead. so it's the 2. sorry, psychiatric hospital is the final referral hospital when it comes to mental health . so we can consider you like the center of excellence when it comes to psychiatric practice. what is mental health really embedded in your primary health care system?

this is what the question is. i think this is something that will cause them to be investing in and i believe this is not something that is unique to them guys, actually a global issue. i think for a long time mental health has been sidelined in the practice of medicine. but i, you know, excuse into the, the, you know, just like to ration. yeah. because we're trying to move to answer a major area. that was thought that is with primary health care is awareness since it's stacy said, as you have heard from them, a tom a from down can even from page i mean even pull out domains and we need to reach out to the community. so 1st we all know strategy has been improving awareness state vision. there are mental health outcomes back to that. i'll come back to what exactly you are doing, moving forward, but for now we've established that that is a problem is, let's talk about that briefly. i don't lose introduce yourself. yeah, i remember how much you know, i mean, is that got you nice. some of the things that we want to tackle is. yeah. and you want to improve on. it's not just about talking and coming on t v and making sure,

but what we're going to send to the would be, and we'll have to want to achieve as africa as that idea is that we want mental health to be. if i have to be palletized, so right now it is not a priority so much or should i to yeah, and this i would say through my born years because i'm and that's good for a mental health patient. they will drive the sponsor efficient to suffering from casa and not me the way, because you start to a priority, but let me just come back to dr. francisco, he, i'll come back to you that he said it is not a priority for this country. mental health, i will big to defy one as i am speaking right now. yeah. if you compare it maybe to other conditions like h, i v t b, which a well funded and we have many partners finding that we it looked like the ministry is only prioritizing those areas with. that's not the case. we have many international partners on board that are funding those activities. so it to make an

a field of medicine like mental health, which doesn't have many partners look like it's been neglected. okay. and further, on top of that, i know you said we're going to talk about some of the things that we have to come back to that later because i am still trying to understand if it's that it's really been prioritize. and i'm going to come to you duncan here, would you say it has really been prioritized. you've mentioned that having enough partners that could provide has also sounded like there's not much interest invested in that. if you would want to just come in for me. my comment on that is that i feel this more that can be done because for example, i struggled with depression and anxiety for 12 years. i was a young person in school. i knew by the i don't know, but then i never saw anything about mental health on t v. the day you're seeing that it's being given that attention and but then why is it like that? because i feel if i had people that came to my school to talk about mental health

out of different it's knowing what i'm struggling with and out reached out and seek to help. okay. as an active is the also have a platform, right? do you have a blog, is that going to put test? how do you send to the communication around mental health? because of course the media is very important in that co said. okay, so on my radio podcast i, i usually include professionals and also people with the lived experience. please allow me to contribute to the question that you had as to why. yeah, one with the middle of the as a period. i don't agree. but honestly speaking, we only see the government doing things during these special days like suicide prevention day and mental health day. and then even when we go to these hospitals that the claim help people with them into hills, there's a little stigma you'll find that i go in there with a mental problem. and the doctor is actually going to talk to me and laugh at me. and there's a single protection, the police also, you know, make fun of people with mental health issues. and would you report that to nobody

takes that seriously. so definitely slow to pay for a lot to would you agree on that? i do agree with them. i know so that's i think that the claim that we need to raise awareness. easy like because there's no need for you to raise awareness. we don't have the facilities, the us to be doors and change uh, people to, to work on the, on and on, on the, on the program. what i think he's, because if you raise awareness, you're raising the demand. so now you raise the demand of people to go to the hosp to is always going to treat them. if you don't have facilities that what tends to these people, then where are they going to be? let me come back to your doctor because uh, i think that united most agreement or statement to yeah is the fact that the people also who need to attend to people struggling with mental health. i'm not really dad . some have the papers or the degree, but they're not employed in the system. why is that? so indeed, we have a lot of work to do when it comes to mental health that they would not deny. we have

a lot of work to do and it's an upcoming field in medicine and in health below valley . go buddy, i should emphasize that. and i think as i'm getting the we did, i think we're doing pretty well, though allow me to do and do it. what's the indicator for that? we have several projects. mental health is a month. those areas of fields in health that we're factoring in the raise a very good concern about the health facilities allow me to educate my panelist as well as the public. let me take advantage of this platform when, when we go for health practice or medical practice, you know that for every pro 5 medical health practice, you have to rotate through psychiatry to mental health is part of our dictation system. and this is something that we've prioritized that to ensure that everyone who graduates in the health sector should have very tight that's through psychiatry, that's belie told me i know my time. i would. ringback individual comes to health facility, they should get,

they mutual mental health. all of us medical health personnel have been trained is a country and mental health wanted to order to change what the doctor said. so being able to, uh, bring change to diagnose an illness, does not mean teaching that unit. okay? yes. so the able to see that they but you know that, but do they have the power, the necessary tools and this, that you meant to treat because you're facing that change to diagnose it? and then what's the point? i mean, you know, how many, how many people do we have in the areas that have been treated from entails problems. and i think that is what i wanted to raise again to hear it. the people are that they can diagnose. but if the facility is not giving the right treatment, then what's the point? this comes back to us, the on the, on every health 1st personnel to pick up the mentor and prior ties, mental health. and this is what we keep encouraging for mental health. what is key is a good history taking. remember, it's psychological, it's information, it's social. this is what we aim to train. are you really dealing with the, with,

with the psycho social aspect of it as well? because then why are we having suicide? the suicide is every of the many reasons why one will reach to level suicide and the manufacturer has to presentational suicide. first one, the individual fact of the 1st is the individual able to open up to anyone? how is it before training? remember, even the most of the most people in the world with so many people around them have committed suicide. they've got access to all the best, mental specific, his best mental book, those psychotherapy, psychiatrist on their team. okay. but still committed suicide with a smile on the 5th, i'm going to come by because duncan didn't mention that in the beginning, he did not have a place to go to and even where he went to hospitals or places, they cannot really tell what his problem well this is what we're trying to know my life duncan always saying that there hasn't been some shuffle. no, but are we working on them? yes, i'll come back to you, but let me just jump into mcdonald quickly before i come back. you are studying secretary of telling me how is the enrollment of this field in your school and how

many people do you have in your classes just to know the stat numbers here. so they know means it's not so difficult in, in my class guarantee we have about 36, you know, as much as people me want to study psychiatry, i guess the interest is growing slowly, but then you know, even when we were getting into this field for my students would tell us that we had just wasting all the time you bit to assign something else to do because the government doesn't employee as many. so, you know, even outlets or sometimes advise us that we should create our own employment, create your own mental health facility because the government does not employed people with the private and very much expensive us. what exactly that is going to be exact. let me just come to you quickly here. yes. tell me what, what, what do you want to comment on that? so the problem that we're having is the information gap. most people don't know about mental health, right? what's the, there's so many student types towards mental health. so many beliefs and misconceptions

that need to be broken down 1st. so we need everyone here. the advocates and stuff like that. what they really need to do is get to the graft gressick. because of the moment it's regarded as something that spiritual someone may be going through. duncan mission, right? he was going to be a mental health challenge. when you went to people to ask about what was going on, people didn't know what to tell him. they didn't know what was going on, right? the just shows us the real problem that we need to address, which is the information gap. there's an information away and this gap and again, so when it's talking about traditional, you know, result into that traditional means. i mean, this is a medical issue, but so it is, you know, he does make a major part of its workforce. i in fact regulating that operation, how do you oversee this? that's what in your own, i brought up the issue of just a vision of the way and it's, it's important a lot of stigma that we're seeing is because of the lack of knowledge. but the bad, the highest responsibility they said is the primary duty background. this is why you should have started, we have to understand. so i'm just cultural context. this,

the 2 aspect is the spiritual aspect of the assembly is a christian nation. secondly, we have the traditional aspect as well. so even when we talk about mental health, mental health has a lot to do with the least psychological social perception to life. so meaning, even as we approach diverse individuals, we have to factor in that. so this is a possible way you are actually looking for to on to, to we are considering everything at everyone and we're getting everyone on board. traditional people like getting them on board spiritual people are getting them on board. academics not much, but i'm on top of what guessing the board mental health wrestling. now we're getting them on board. what calling everyone together, it's everyone's problem this. the solution comes in the home. thoughts from the home. interesting. let me just come to benjamin quickly. do you agree to that point, of course, managing the traditional healers away. so the, the, the, the bio mets, if you like. do you think that this could be a possible pathway to this issue? it shouldn't be possible past what it should be part of it,

possibly before everything else, we belong to a community or a system. kind of guessing we started with a funding to you need to write down the additional issues of values which they perhaps send a value if they promote shooting that just by truck waiting for august to to know a push to to, to can tournament. yeah. oh, i'm dr. you wanted to clarify a point? yes. so as much as this, the spiritual, cultural, traditional context, remember, who still have to be fair when it comes to the medical treatment code. let's give, let me give an example of something called when like a tv, a lot of people use that in denial, bought a tv and those sick alternative treatment, traditional treatment, pres. but after some time we still console them to come to a point to realize that please, you also need to adhere to act, reach me at the end of a medical guidance. and that's why i ask, why do you draw the line? and then how are you trying to make people understand that at some point, this is a medical, you know, a medical issue if window, maybe the spiritual aspect might be there,

as most of you upset. but where do you draw this land going forward? yes, so i think even in practice, we tried to make an effort to do that. but at the same time being very respectful of the appliance opinion and view and perception, but still being very objective, you know, communication and also still highlighting the medical aspect. let me just come back to duncan before i come there, you wanted to say something. i would love to, to ask the company to also a special to include advocates in optic based as well to also give them we pots the, we have the kennel. so begin to reach out very well and if i'm, i can just also tell us because someone mentioned very important point that in this and a holistic approach. and that means everybody, the system has to be functioning. so tell me i'm going forward. how has a struggle of duncan? your son had changed your perception? let me god, god, devise my body. because the run now was it i'm gonna run. right, and i got the and ready my i do own thing as the web and let me read each that the

well known one. so in a couple, you know, set that we know i want to go, go on it and i will go and get the phones and send you the number alone if i'm in. and that's the good one. it is actually the ones. and i'm going from that jenny beach to the chat. so buddy don't even know was the case. i'm a michael mccord with the end of the run. now my quarter off for me to go down to that would be very a couple who do i live in that? when to make that easy, my going on got sleek, i'm lined up a 40 was a physical to would you mind accessible site? let me just come to you and know my time because someone mentioned that the 2019 mental health of law you had the act has been passed, right. which means it's not in too low. so i mean, it also has the kids are full protection non discrimination, of people struggling with mental health. but is this a progressive attempt on the side of the government looking at where you've come from? the last that you had from my perspective? no. when you go to the police station and report something,

the moment you say you are a mental patient, you get read acute. the police don't take those things seriously. it's like these laws have been passed, but then not being implemented. i am for lack of a better way to disappointed for to hear that yeah, devaluing that mental health act to that level. we've been uploaded for that mental health act and that was a huge step for mental health because it's protect it per months. but the advocates of what she's saying is, is it the beginning flu shot in terms of the implementation aspect of it because that's not bad and the law is still meaningless. it is the we have a lot of political button, open them, and secretary in the, in the health for all the major programs that are being facilitating this mentally feel st. governmental thoughts, something else a lot. it's a wrong at the to the government is the primary duty there. yeah. you, we hear you, but we are helping with 1st. if it doesn't policy, we need to understand that we can compare mental health to other areas in health right now. it would be, i'm, you know, a month. we're still on the way forward just way for the see why raising your hand

to how you're offering solutions. you, you don't obviously my index and the government doesn't have the system in place or have and then very unreliable. and i don't, i think you would honestly have to adjust to that. so my question is that, how are we offering solutions when you're doing dr. that the population you're working with? you don't know. you don't know what, what population is actually affected by stigma with, with augusta mentors, personnel. you don't know what size of the population cannot access or cannot, cannot afford mental health services. are you saying this going forward? should be a way for what to break this down to make it easy pretty much what i'm saying is that before we can actually go go get photos to get the data for us to someone here . and then yes, the doctor. yes, i think in closing, i would really like us to have an understanding of i understand as an advocate, it's not my job to do the, the government's job. i'm here to hold the government accountable for whether a gaps and way things are not happening. and i feel like this is getting modeled in this conversation. so i think going forward to advocate governments. it's not my

job to do the government stuff as or not. i think that's clear as to why at the front desk i will having the conversation, of course, around the government is not doing it because you need to push and do a little bit more. and you've had a reliable data on some of the other issues that emanated from the government side . what are you doing towards the issue of mental health now going forward? there's a lot of training that's coming up for me to help us. and now we're doing a little supervisory, elementary mentoring visits when it comes to mental health across the country. then in terms of since the top one i'll probably to as well, we're looking into that. then of course, one of the important aspect that i'd like to highlight, we're calling for apartments. what has just been established has that mental health . it's real mental health struggles are real and definitely exist in zambia as well . i know that it can be too much to do so much, especially when it's supposed to be the walk of the government. but as people what we can do as well is to be more empathetic to one another. show a lot of show kindness spread, smiles,

way you can because you never know what people are going through. this has been to 77 percent of life from zambia and to thank you so much for watching the that feed from us this week. if you enjoyed the show, then you don't want to miss out on some more great content from the 77 percent. pay us a visit on the instagram and do to, to the next time. good bye for now. the,

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