to keep it simple as the impossible to see it, the stones tell the story of a powerful resolution. what exactly happened as of 10000 years ago, the secrets shone age, stats, december 22nd, on the w, and as with so many african come fix. the latest fighting into don has brought death misery to huge numbers of civilians. this time, even the un has been shocked by what code the unprecedented speed of this integration. whatever happens to africa's low loss promise to silence the guns, but we bring him 6 ounces to such questions. these are suit, denise born bridges millionaire with the foundation, the researches africa's problems and rewards. those who try to solve the fuzzy of a loose face in africa that feedbacks in some countries. unfortunately,

one of them is my country. but we, we would find a way for one of the core of africa's problems he says is by governance. and why is it still so prevalent? how was it that african leaders voted themselves immunity from prosecution to the most serious crimes and what's behind the refuse, or some states to condemn most goes invasion of ukraine? is it payback for the rows of colonial, occupies the subs. welcome to conflicts of thanks. i us, you've tried so many years to promote a governance in africa, in some countries you've had some success, but the violence never seems to go away and sit on the country of your bus decades of fighting. another killing has become again, an honest how personal is this conflict to you?

is the very best at stan at work. and i wouldn't be able to have that i've done this. and what we have here is 2 sides to this. fighting a button in, in our capital, each side wants power and with power comes financially as well as this. it's still a blessed story and this is tory of for yes, i made it to the cause is essentially old story unfortunately. and enough is enough for all those guys, despite the treasures by both sides, to respect, humanitarian principles. that hasn't been the slightest effort to avoid civilian casualties. why is it okay? absolutely. i don't see the shift. each of them think they can somehow, when this don't, they cannot be

a we're not here. they cannot be one of the only who is us able to find this losing, do so that these people are losing the list of infrastructure we have is being destroyed. and detective easy, is it a mess and most divisions of buying the soldiers? it's, it is, it is very sent. do you ever lose faith in africa? no. despite to this, that's going to get, but that's when can 3 out of $54.00 guns according to on index. in the last, over the last 10 years, you know, we would use an index, somebody to have governance in africa. the majority of episodes of applicants living in a bit of government countries that 10 years ago. so are moving forward. that's it backs in some countries. unfortunately, one of them is my country. but we, we would find a way for what but this conflict is you've also said is taking place against the

really dismal tapestry of backsliding. democracy as the number of states, bad governments. you've quoted africa's own goal. and you said we are responsible for how much of africa shows your sense of responsibility for this. we okay. this the funding governor, governor to z d. i bought a number of, of, of deliverables. one of them of course, is human rice delivery. a bunch of dish and it's, it's not uh, i don't, the boxes are corner me then is a human developments and the rules of security and the picture, the bishop is really mix yes. course over the last 10 years after got made the point of progress in the area of infrastructure and human development, vintage occasional based on hand, but non secured, no security i've heard of low, is going down and actually why,

why is the connection between the 2 that the problem is marginalization of minorities and sometimes a or it's inclusion, a creative assessment. uh. then you have also extend the effective as like climate change with your end up with conflicts between they have those of the farmers. and if that's not to manage, it ends up, it's a basic conflict. so that happened in the for i didn't have a claimant on legitimate, but she is then using the dish just to sort out the probably the end up and see 100000 people get. so it is, it, is, it mismanagement also of natural disaster habiting because of climate. that's one element you. you said earlier this year we started to see qu data, which we saw it was something in the past. we started to see this phenomena of a strong man. it's something we need to fight back against. how do you fight these

so called strong men who are entrenched in the countries across out africa, protected sometimes by foreign policy, often by criminal games that kill for the sake of it. how. how do you fight back against these? i think john, john, people are looking at what's having and thoughtful weatherstone. banners. so that for the test he is in today, shed general, but she was infection about $430.00 is created for this military organizational. now there's no time off for him to have an army. he committed to the support forces and called him him, might be, you know, understanding for him at the is my board section and the, the collision center just have the army. his party has him an issue. he had ordered the stuff, which is just curriculum and this course. so to use, hit the same kids who grew up on the he's or those are the guys were dying in the

city for the most a. this is a and b will will give us whole because they will not accept the soldier. they will not accept a tylen need. they will not accept the death of ships and you went to just city for 3, it is now green solution. so then, because the young people would not accept this or just you, you say i, can you say that you say that? but that's one of the more depressing by products of conflict and back governance is that africans are showing increasing tolerance for the role of military and politics according to afro barometer report last month. that view is particularly strongly young people, 18 to 35 year old. after a barometer reported that over the last decade, opposition to military rule has declined significantly. now, a slim majority, there's a majority is willing to accept military intervention if elected officials abuse the past that has to be dangerous for them. of course, at least it is dangerous,

and the problem is you take guinea for example, we have to have, as the con, the ap using fall off his power and then trying to deal with the constitution someplace the, the, the, the position. i'm fed and a guy who was the democrat before getting power and then power gets to his head. and now being the data. when electrical came again, is guy you understand why people say, oh, as one definitely good today to for him. so don't know to be the supporting somebody to the cool heavy to get rid of the really a quarter of a civilian who really abuses the constitution end up losing his body if uh yeah, its spectrum. good for me though. so, but then, but then the problem is you are, you are a blessing, the song was a different, i mean that, that is, it doesn't look like that. that's why i, i us be,

will need to live that there is also a loss to to seek the 4 of the bad z that's. it's also important to know what you're going for. and this is, that is this sort of ended up meant as support usability. cool. again, is that somebody and for to the 2nd but the, tim, tim, about about the, the, the, the strong bang. unfortunately, this is something we can passion of work. look only in africa, our guys in africa, lou cut out on the seat or just feeling meant strong. mean all over the place. you know, and we have something that steps will have. the key was russia will have china web for the beans. what. how many strong men of them we see this fraction of a strong board is,

is coming back again. one of the best i was i look at this and say all that is wonderful when it comes to do like, or, or the about why i cannot be like to order those. yeah. like, and it would be like, yeah, this is a painful, strong man. unfortunately, and we need to wake up to that is not an applicant phenomenon. it's a global phenomena. i'd like to talk back and go back to the bottom of this has taken place since the done at the moment. um, one to the violence according to the un, which should both sides trampling on humanitarian go back in 2010. the new york times bureau chief, or east africa, reported on how come back in africa had moved from soldier verse a soldier to soldier versus civilian the most domestic as fight. as he said, what bevels with the cause, they would predators. and for them, tara became not just a means, but an end. to what extent is that still the case?

it is. it is unfortunate the paper that a number come with some countries are, but i think i'll have seen like a blank was in the list in the last few years. unfortunately, we thought we finished. i'm thought that was you. cool. you know the disease at a, in the 70 sixties and seventies where every morning we used to have a cool with some living. i think we thought that this finished unfortunate is coming back and something we need to be careful about this. then that gave us an extra division question. i mean, i know it is estimated to say this, but in all honesty, do we need armies in africa? why do we do that? what does the job of the item, the items suppose to protect you on the board? that who is it and the applicant can to be so i think i don't have applicant categories to the have any was the between african countries. i don't recall any why you need the arms. who's been though, is this money to get those guys, bags and guns an arrow blades when i want the one to come on to that and yeah,

i'm in a moment to, to i, i just, i don't think we need it. it is all nice. and those guys has been goals as many of them, and then they come much with us with the copy that. i mean what's his last week? so those government told the un human rights council that it was basically none of the u. n's business. what was happening inside 2000 was an internal affair. they said, and the student is armed forces. so of course of launched attacks, and this strikes intensely populate disability. and the reason the capital is you said it was simply doing the constitutional duty. what do you say to a government like that? does it make you angry for the hobby bombing its own people in the capital is just doing its constitution, but that is not the government. that's not, that's not the shipment. what causes those guys government? it's the only government they have the address is people just took it by paula by guns. dad looking lifted that no to drive, look at it, but yeah, i mean, those guys just, you know, making themselves a lot of shows in general. those on the f. i live are things i do now i'm seeing

this. why don't the african states to that's applique on union actually is, is, is suspended. so then that's it. that's all they've done. what else comes they do? what as the problem is applicant here and it hasn't well just on the bottom me for a long time, which at this time the force of the african you when you actually find that it should be um then it is able to go and deal with all of those claim and as of categories and whatever, unfortunately, actually kind of and that hasn't been, hasn't quoted, she has plenty of good. you the tensions doesn't. it doesn't realize all the amount of power. what, what, what happens assignments for guns by one and 220, yes. what happens, what, what about the sort of the concepts? so get the plastic, i know what i want to go with because what it is including accounts. i think a lot of people have forgotten about the square to cause is defined by the veto is of the 5 comes, i guess it's by lice. but what is the whole bubbly order? is it m. s, the whole public, the whole, the whole world of this, you know,

or is it global inspection? i miss you create accounts. it is important. cannot do anything. yeah for can you open the dfcs? they don't have the means to accept it. they've had all the extra bliss. i think he's more of the wage which included the codes have kind of even the so we're not seeing much of that. that's what we're so down the, this is that did it. and finish. and so that did it. we had the confidence 2 weeks ago, i had most of our keywords on the old guys in the conference and was clear what the stand ones you want to do. that even if it comes to kind of to see what i can look, even expressed on obedient and what's going on for them. shift for you have access all over the come to the you. have you talk to either of the generals that are causing this concept to sit down at the moment? no, i, i don't have enough common ground even to start the conversation. i believe was these guys have given us the should enough to take will they?

if i to i whole, then i hope so. what's the, what's the chance of it was one day it would come one day look. but she ended up in prison. i'd be able to sit all what but, but she understood and nobody can touch him. he was in prison, so it happened to, i'm afraid that what happened, the african codes pushing for african solutions and offering african accountability by what happened to that i thought from guinea and central african republic where the trial, i think it's important to support the i. c, i o. projected to there is an attempt to replace isis. he was an applicant court. i don't think that was the right decision. actually it's and again you look at the way that quote is good to georgia which is cannot, it cannot, but it's cute but is it is just for the cable itself and the other 2 for me. exactly. sure. so i, as i said, july, as i yeah, is this going to end up really was getting taxi drivers and official men,

but the not my courts can do that. why was this special court? it, it just, it city, it just some visits wants to protect themselves from vice. you see, and that was a bundle of what to do. i'm sorry about that. so there's no quick fixes for this was done that's going on and it will spread to the region, so maybe spread to well west stuff. what has that? what about south? so don, is that next? okay, is this a different institution? so, so that i've come to it, but i think we cannot give up, then we'll have to deal with it quickly before the fire splits. fluid was all these will continue to hold. what i mean as it is very encouraging to see united states is involved. so you gotta be as involved, both of them fancy show stuff definitely can do and you have this in volume and yeah, this involved, the cost is invalid. so our messages,

yeah. most of those guys would have that'd be conference in there will be our foundation. i know those guys was there and the message to everybody is we need to speak with one voice now or the voice. or do you know about the kinds of this was one voice, and we need to ensure that we would this fire out. we need to buy and any x, most of items to the division of death. and we need to be able to look either we have or we're going to go often. you to you to util, telling me about foreign armies being in african countries. i think there are 13 foreign armies actually at the moment in various african countries. how healthy do you think it is for africans to, to welcome in rushes less than the group. of course, um, 5 minute, for instance, victorious in ukraine and not expanding its footprint across from tops of students on acceptable. and you'll notice who invited them many of the ships

in the number of western countries. this being comes to nation, that some african countries have been ambivalent to, in the case of south africa, mutual over russia's invasion of ukraine. is this payback for the west for them, for the wrongs of the colonial era is that while i know the rule is the colona, the deputy to be fact judge illusion. america is usually called for the a, a good game in the violation of this over and see what else i can think of. you create of your claim and maybe applicant people's head. excuse me. what did america do? any of that was that was that not breach? of security. so for the other countries. so why did they condemn both?

but from us, the woods. this is unusual for what was a little bit media on the lice. i think you had mentioned how was this, what is your wish and because your money objected to the invasion of that i what is wrong for us to which is it is usually because any excuse me, you have here, correct. that is neutral. really the side effect, the, as it is kind of, she is your boy. i, that is it, is i the collection of rules or those you can me, the out of the rules only applies to russia. look us, let's look be hey, book this is appropriate. this is the problem we need to look at the middle or sometimes and the relies. what can we say and what you do? what happens in libya would then blogs is category. we never would have to be able to get this accessed about. what do you make, look, i'm not going to be honest and dealing with this stuff. so it looked like the width

is the why it on or the mac? nobody side. okay, so, so don't lift. you don't collection of other people and say, you look icon them and i think it is a problem is i'll acceptable for russia to evade euclid. and there's no question, but in the same place i have condemned american invasion of over that because this is, is equivalence. and we need to remember that, i just hope that people, when you talk about the natural rules, you should applies to everybody, you know, exceptionally while we bring. what do you make of america's charge? last week that south africa had loaded onto a sanctioned russian fighter. if you make of that child i, i'm really confused at exactly as to why the best level of these

guys as well. we only have south africa's version. so saying he apologized that he did not know what was your tell? he didn't apologize in public. oh, i saw a guy who wrote that in bbc website actually that he didn't like know south africa says he apologize to that but, but then they denied the judge. but when it, when they did denied, the wording was on big us. they said we didn't approve any arms to russia. it wasn't sanctioned or approved by us. i suggest that was something to took place that i paid with would. i'm afraid that social advocate has a number of issues i think and where is easy? where is the government? i think in c, broberg we is losing it's, it's a grip on power effectively as it some somewhere today that is possible is that to

them before they even know that we have of what happens. they cannot admit that because they say ok, this is terrible if he's at with i'd say the light is also terrible of that medical impulse long. i was also a medical reports now are more accurate than before. uh. i mean, drink act. it has a web as of mazda, a section on the which is of the game, but obviously actually budgeting, thrown the world. the managers have been very accurate and i bought it so i didn't know it's not. and i don't know what does it to us of what happened death. but i notice digital division of governance in south africa was big public about this. right? in the time we have left, we talked a lot about what african countries have or haven't done. what do you,

what the west to face briefly, what do you want? the west to 5. i think i think the west need really to we have in a much with that way. look at what is happening here. go with kim. i know had to be probably all you it'll be under the last 20. you'll be at least i think at least that was signed and that's out of published in 50. nobody see if i'm this ever. what do you see if i think i need support? we need to $100000000.00 widget, and then nothing happens. good with, but not it's nothing done. then be able to hold, holding coffee to nice to the nationalist and this other seeing the guys, even in our headset, the supports, nothing. okay? and that was the, the bad behavior tv, but at this job, because then then let's see if i'm this everybody see if they know that. so right.

know and gauge now for the same as i know it's after we left for the summit, 60 you africa. so yeah, that's what this you have to confirm. it was good it, but you can see the different more. that's very important. look at the after got that. so there's no cover it $2300.00 out of said yes, everyone get a money in america. us and, and break it auto seen is $23.00 young dollars. i figured it's good, not that is any money. okay. and now does it say, what is happening? so when you create has a problem, when greece has a financial problem, the fund will it bank immediately search it out. now what's happening in zambia, what's happening instead of going to years, does it act? and you want to close it out and you want them to come down also on the list. it

cash, it isn't financial loss. it's a $100000000000.00, a $100000000000.00. they get most living on advocate well with the companies sunday night and price me back on the best pricing and broke it down. you know, a lot of shifting and you know that i'm sick, i just want you to act so with these really the bits of behavior from our friends, and those really is a bit of what is or the bits of financial institution because these financial institution, i'm not said of in this house that dominated by width and most of the you know, some ideas on the boards, etc. there's no voice in the board decision institutions from the guys and supposed to be the customer of the clients of this, of these banks. that's why these banks would focus on greece. we're focusing on your credit. right. but so the lack of where to submit to the board that doesn't

know what is what does that be a small avery and we run out of time. thank you very much indeed. dining on the complex, i'm going to give you his thank you the

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