so that the d tap. my money to this is mckenna, thanks so much for watching the world in progress. as top calls to everyone who wants to know more about this topic, the 2nd son of about this story is beyond the headlines world in progress. the w cuts cost dw, so one pixel we in fact, every day, the world wide web for free, for all the world, we can take the different w call, the world unpack pulse of your info is and all the

input the w story. now on to the, in the end of you today, lot mark miller, phone, president of the open society foundations. we want to talk about the decline and democracy and human rights, and how to stop. it mocks over 2000000000 people. the go to is a poet says here in local, regional or national elections. give them the see expect taishan specific us to the outcome of these elections. i, you voice very will be at the end of the year. well, it does seem to be a year where there are more elections involving more people going to vote than ever before. but it comes at the and 20 years of study annual democratic decline.

so, you know, we could end up with a year of a record number of elections on a disappointingly less amount of democracy. and it's, that's a strange place to be because these elections take place at the time of huge crisis in the well, we've just come off halters year and well rec board. people kit being killed in conflict has reached the numbers we've not seen since the 1980s. we're seeing extraordinary breakdowns of a little of the lower conflicts with civilians being targeted with human rights being pushed back in many countries in many fields. so that might set you up for a set of elections which will bring real change, but failing incumbents would be injected and right, you lead as you spoke for these frustrations and problems for change,

for the better or for the well, you might hope it would be for the better, but to be honest, when you look at the likely full costs for each of these elections individually, what you see is a much more disappointing pop of the will be elections like in my own country the day when the fairly traditional way it's likely that a long standing come, government gets replaced by, you know, a fresh, a new position. but, you know, in other places you've got russia where i put in will face no serious opposition. you have india where, you know, i'm, is to moody is doing remarkable things in many ways, but is no friend of human rights and yet seems cruising through to a big victory. and you above all got the drama of the united states, where either president trump has just won the 1st quote,

chris wrote in iowa in a dramatic fashion, setting up an almost certain contest between him and president biden in november. and, you know, i, i think this doesn't exactly suggest the fresh generational change of lead is around the world. but you might hope the situation merited. so all the countries which gives you particular to cause for concern, but you say i'm very bored about the possible outcome in this country, for example. well, i think one has to begin with the united states because the us influence globally is so significant and it has remained such an important leader for good and sometimes so bad in the world that you know it's democracy perhaps coming off the rails in november is key, i mean, we've done polling as a society which shows that 2 thirds of americans are worried that will be violence

around the election. and you know, there's plenty of posing evidence that neither side will accept the results. the other side wins. we have a dramatic breakdown of trust in the american body. paula, take a massive pulverized ation on one side, threatening to as a rule will do anything it takes to impose its will going forward. so it's a very dangerous place. but, you know, there are other elections to where we will see in the european parliament tree elections, you know, a huge cross country exercise. you know, the current polling suggests that there will be a surge in the odd right votes and an incremental increase in, in, in center right boats. and that's the center i'm left is likely to get your quite a code shot in those elections. well, you know, if it was just

a swing from the center left to the center, right. you know, nobody would worry, i think these are all groups, respect, democracy and it's, and the rules of democracy. but, you know, there is continuously now the, the risk in both national european situations as well as the europe level that we're going to see, you know, all star carrion's sitting in the palm and to the right to the left or to the right . well, i mean, the x, the particular focus is to the right. but let me be clear, i don't think that the right has a monopoly of extremism. you know, we're seeing on the left to on university campuses as well as in politics. you know, a lot of sort of adult meyer and extremism and failure to kind of build consensus and compromise with other groups. so, you know, this, this issue of polarization,

you know, is, is, is across politics. so what kind of strategies to use? so just as the open society foundations to counter in liberal tendencies, well, we were foundations such foundations, which grew up in the last 2 years of the cold war where the lease grantees and recipients in central europe, particularly, but also in the old soviet union. you know what people who had fought for the right to free speech and potentially right in future to vote. and so, you know, we had a kind of classic human rights and democracy mandate give people a vote secure the human rights under the law. and the rest will take care of itself on the history of the last. a decatur,

also as being the rest doesn't take care of itself that people remain in polling allows and others, you know, remain very much committed theoretically to democracy. but in judging their own governments and how they're going to vote, much more understandably, driven by issues around that own and that families, security as they go jobs. are those jobs threatened by waves of illegal immigrants have they got access to affordable health? and the education is the cost of living, accelerating beyond that means. and, you know, it's these sets of immediate quality of life, security of life issues and pocketbook issues which, you know, attending voting sort of, people vote for, you know, an apparently or 3rd period government. it doesn't mean that they're into a single,

solitary and is a matter of a democracy more often than not. they're drawing out and incompetent incumbent who might be democratic, but as a deliberate for them. and so, you know, i think we've got to see behind the sort of argument of political philosophers around rights and democracy and, you know, shore up the effectiveness of government. because that's the best way for democracy to prevail is when it's listening to people and delivering folders and to autocrats deliver better results. and then in the end no for a while perhaps. but because, you know, they're able to apparently sort of pray on. the shortcomings of government and you know, a little bit like, seizes in the pos promising bread and such things you know, offer some in, in me just sort of the tax caught. so, you know,

promising to stop in and immigration all, some other things which, you know, a pledge is which stands out well, for the, a short months of an election campaign. but in government often provide a prove much hard to deliver. and this sort of thing about a 3rd period is in is it tends not to come with the governing philosophy, you know, other than tearing down what was already that. and so it's very usually lacks of sophistication of policy delivery to really address these things of problems like shortcomings, and an education system or a health delivery system. and so, you know, it might, and it also doesn't have the seeds of its own renewal. and it, because, you know, it doesn't respect elections as a means for, for, you know, knowing when it's time's out. and it's time for the other luck to come back into

power. and so, you know, over time it is, will prove a set of failed doctrines. but you know, the difficulty is the risk, you know, a risk that donald trump is spoken to in the us for example, of winning an election, but then caring up so many of the sort of soft rules of democracy practices. if democracy, by the time the next election comes around the media or is not, that is, is less free. quotes have been stuff with, you know, pro trump judges of state rules being rewritten in ways to limit the effective franchise. and so there is a risk, but or 3rd period is getting out and then pull a loud rock behind them to make sure nobody can cover up and replace. so what would be a positive outlook of all the election space been talking about in 2024 looked like

for the bulk received from your point of view. well, it would be, you know, a set of elections where, you know, popular concerns did come through and it way that politicians had and responded to because this is a well of mounting crisis and, and saw challenge politics. but to come out of the, you know, with a series of disappointing results would be just not disappointing. but your democracy has shown an extraordinary habit to surprise to suddenly produce that extraordinary young leader who is the right woman. all mine for the moment. and, you know, i think we shouldn't go into this, you know, with that mindset that the has to end up with a set of bad results. so, you know, politics is a horse race. and so sometimes the long shot horse wins

and you know, so i, we should all go into the years really consensus ends with our eyes on the race and i'm cheering on the exciting on the dogs. ok. thank you. lot my left brown for this interview. thank you. the, the co africa coming in, donna, in summer, most escalating to the very higher level the problem resources i'll be coming guess because it's time to change the initiative now office guided mediation to find the eco africa next on

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